I'm not a very accomplished Wizard. I had a 60 SC pre-RoS, and my HC Wizard is now 65. So I seek your enlightenment:
Is there any situation in which Ray of Frost is worth using over Disintegrate? Even if I'm stacking Cold damage, the fact that Ray of Frost doesn't pierce just sucks.
The only thing I've found to be moderately workable is using Black Hole to pull all the enemies into the clouds created by Black Ice, which does a lot of damage. I don't have enough AP regen to really make it click though (and Disintegrate worked really well, it's not like Ray of Frost was the clear winner).
I've also used the Snowglobe build with Sleet Storm, and that was fun but it only works better than Disintegrate because the rune makes Ray of Frost behave like an entirely new spell.
With that offhand you can find some fun and efficient uses for a lot of the RoF runes in addition to piercing that I feel disintegrate just can't offer. I'm not going to claim which is better than the other, but it is definitely a viable alternative if you build around it. It should also be noted that this amulet will help both builds if you find your self not liking spinning around to hit a few enemies at a time:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-ess-of-johanIt procs very regularly and is a great substitute for black hole and/or pull monk :). Enjoy!
You are missing an offhand that makes ray of frost pierce enemies.
Hahahaha, so what you're telling me is that the only way Ray of Frost competes with Disintegrate is by using an item that makes it behave just like Disintegrate. Maybe they should just put a cold rune on Disintegrate and have done with it.
With that offhand you can find some fun and efficient uses for a lot of the RoF runes in addition to piercing that I feel disintegrate just can't offer.
Like what?
Numb I guess is nice because you get the slow without needing Temporal Flux passive, but that's all I can think of. Black Ice it's counter-intuitive because the enemy dies and leaves the ice patch, but the other enemies behind him are slowed by Ray of Frost and maybe don't make it there. Sleet Storm doesn't change, and Snow Blast is the same as Intensify. I guess that would give it a place in an all-Cold build though.
The fact that it now pierces, does more damage than Disintegrate AND can create black holes to deal an additional ton of damage on top of the damage from the beam? Or the rune that decreases the cost to practically your base regen rate?
Think deeper, I am more than willing to help with offering suggestions but it seems like you didn't even bother to take a look at the options this opens up. And yes some times skills require certain items to reach their full potential.
Edit: I figure I might as well add some of the other benefits. Since cold damage already applies a slow and chilled, that likely frees up a passive slot that is used in many disintegrate builds to grant the arcane slow, this can now be switched out for whatever, including Cold Blooded for an additional built in 10% damage that just isn't found as easily for Disintegrate. That damage will stack onto your black ice pools or your additional damage from snow blast rune or whatever else.
Using RoF is also an easy way to get your cold damage stack for Elemental Exposure since I feel arcane is much easier to come across with many people using Canoneer and not as many using the frost familiar. Using that amulet I linked earlier will pull all the enemies into a small area and when combined with black ice when one dies they will all be hit but the damage from the black ice affect. Generally all enemies won't die at the same time, and it is an especially nice effect when you're killing trash mixed in with an elite pack.
The fact that it now pierces, does more damage than Disintegrate AND can create black holes to deal an additional ton of damage on top of the damage from the beam? Or the rune that decreases the cost to practically your base regen rate?
Think deeper, I am more than willing to help with offering suggestions but it seems like you didn't even bother to take a look at the options this opens up. And yes some times skills require certain items to reach their full potential.
Whoa whoa whoa, tiger. That's a bit out of line.
1) Ray of Frost (510%) does not do more damage than Disintegrate (511%), though it's slightly cheaper (2 ap). That does equate to more damage per AP, but not more DPS. If there are some specific reasons you like the extra AP over time, by all means let's hear them. That's part of the discussion I'm trying to have.
2) If by "black holes" you're referring to the ice clouds that Black Ice creates, then I already said - it's counter-intuitive. If Ray of Frost kills a monster and leaves the ice cloud, the monsters behind it are most likely to also die from Ray of Frost before they reach the cloud because they're either a) the same type of monster that died to create the patch, thus having the same hitpoints and dying around the same time anyway or a different monster with more hitpoints, but has been slowed by Ray of Frost and may die before it gets to the patch.
3) I don't have AP issues when I'm using Disintegrate, so I don't put a lot of value on the rune that makes Ray of Frost cheaper. Again, if you have some particularly uses for the extra AP, I'd like to hear them because I don't.
I edit my post with the clarification of how RoF can do more damage with Cold Blooded, and yes black ice pools (sorry for the typo in the earlier post) do generally hit enemies as either, if they are spread out you won't be killing them all at the same time as some will likely be to the right or left, rarely are enemies all in one straight line, or they are bunched up and they generally won't all die at the same time due to crits and damage rolls, and various health pools of mixed enemy packs as they generally do come, not just a single type at a time. Added to that, pull effects, like with the amulet I linked, or running with a pull monk, amplifies the usefullness of the black ice pools.
Black ice builds have been a popular alternative for a while, because the rune is effective for what it does, if it wasn't, people wouldn't use it, but they do. Claiming it is not effective doesn't make sense...
The lower AP cost easily allows you to spec out of APoC and/or any other regen that you might have, allowing more damage or survivability affixes. Once again, I am not here to argue that RoF is miles ahead of Disintegrate, or the other way around, it is just very easy to see that using RoF with appropriate gear will allow you to do things that Disintegrate can't, just like there are rune and gear combos with Disintegrate that you cannot get with RoF.
Once I get that off-hand, I'm switching out of Frozen Orb to RoF.
I'll probably use Black Ice for regular farming, or Snow Blast (15% rune) for targeted farming.
It will basically become cast RoF until one enemy dies and creates the Black Ice effect, Black Hole - Absolute Zero on top of that ice patch, then continue with RoF to hit all the pulled enemies that are now on the ice patch.
Now if only Kadala will give me that source like she gave me the triumvirate, I would be happy.
Also, they need to buff Sleet Storm to make it comparable to that cone rune for Disintegrate. 375% is nothing compared to 649% on that cone.
Once I get that off-hand, I'm switching out of Frozen Orb to RoF.
As someone who tried this recently I can offer my opinion - don't. I got the offhand and thought I'd mess around with a few different RoF builds and it's acute laser like line is really frustrating after getting using used to Frozen Orb's path of destruction. RoF's damage output is nice but it hits so much less "stuff" at a time.
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I'm not a very accomplished Wizard. I had a 60 SC pre-RoS, and my HC Wizard is now 65. So I seek your enlightenment:
Is there any situation in which Ray of Frost is worth using over Disintegrate? Even if I'm stacking Cold damage, the fact that Ray of Frost doesn't pierce just sucks.
The only thing I've found to be moderately workable is using Black Hole to pull all the enemies into the clouds created by Black Ice, which does a lot of damage. I don't have enough AP regen to really make it click though (and Disintegrate worked really well, it's not like Ray of Frost was the clear winner).
I've also used the Snowglobe build with Sleet Storm, and that was fun but it only works better than Disintegrate because the rune makes Ray of Frost behave like an entirely new spell.
Any clever uses I'm missing?
With that offhand you can find some fun and efficient uses for a lot of the RoF runes in addition to piercing that I feel disintegrate just can't offer. I'm not going to claim which is better than the other, but it is definitely a viable alternative if you build around it. It should also be noted that this amulet will help both builds if you find your self not liking spinning around to hit a few enemies at a time:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-ess-of-johanIt procs very regularly and is a great substitute for black hole and/or pull monk :). Enjoy!
Like what?
Numb I guess is nice because you get the slow without needing Temporal Flux passive, but that's all I can think of. Black Ice it's counter-intuitive because the enemy dies and leaves the ice patch, but the other enemies behind him are slowed by Ray of Frost and maybe don't make it there. Sleet Storm doesn't change, and Snow Blast is the same as Intensify. I guess that would give it a place in an all-Cold build though.
Think deeper, I am more than willing to help with offering suggestions but it seems like you didn't even bother to take a look at the options this opens up. And yes some times skills require certain items to reach their full potential.
Edit: I figure I might as well add some of the other benefits. Since cold damage already applies a slow and chilled, that likely frees up a passive slot that is used in many disintegrate builds to grant the arcane slow, this can now be switched out for whatever, including Cold Blooded for an additional built in 10% damage that just isn't found as easily for Disintegrate. That damage will stack onto your black ice pools or your additional damage from snow blast rune or whatever else.
Using RoF is also an easy way to get your cold damage stack for Elemental Exposure since I feel arcane is much easier to come across with many people using Canoneer and not as many using the frost familiar. Using that amulet I linked earlier will pull all the enemies into a small area and when combined with black ice when one dies they will all be hit but the damage from the black ice affect. Generally all enemies won't die at the same time, and it is an especially nice effect when you're killing trash mixed in with an elite pack.
1) Ray of Frost (510%) does not do more damage than Disintegrate (511%), though it's slightly cheaper (2 ap). That does equate to more damage per AP, but not more DPS. If there are some specific reasons you like the extra AP over time, by all means let's hear them. That's part of the discussion I'm trying to have.
2) If by "black holes" you're referring to the ice clouds that Black Ice creates, then I already said - it's counter-intuitive. If Ray of Frost kills a monster and leaves the ice cloud, the monsters behind it are most likely to also die from Ray of Frost before they reach the cloud because they're either a) the same type of monster that died to create the patch, thus having the same hitpoints and dying around the same time anyway or a different monster with more hitpoints, but has been slowed by Ray of Frost and may die before it gets to the patch.
3) I don't have AP issues when I'm using Disintegrate, so I don't put a lot of value on the rune that makes Ray of Frost cheaper. Again, if you have some particularly uses for the extra AP, I'd like to hear them because I don't.
Black ice builds have been a popular alternative for a while, because the rune is effective for what it does, if it wasn't, people wouldn't use it, but they do. Claiming it is not effective doesn't make sense...
The lower AP cost easily allows you to spec out of APoC and/or any other regen that you might have, allowing more damage or survivability affixes. Once again, I am not here to argue that RoF is miles ahead of Disintegrate, or the other way around, it is just very easy to see that using RoF with appropriate gear will allow you to do things that Disintegrate can't, just like there are rune and gear combos with Disintegrate that you cannot get with RoF.
I'll probably use Black Ice for regular farming, or Snow Blast (15% rune) for targeted farming.
It will basically become cast RoF until one enemy dies and creates the Black Ice effect, Black Hole - Absolute Zero on top of that ice patch, then continue with RoF to hit all the pulled enemies that are now on the ice patch.
Now if only Kadala will give me that source like she gave me the triumvirate, I would be happy.
Also, they need to buff Sleet Storm to make it comparable to that cone rune for Disintegrate. 375% is nothing compared to 649% on that cone.