Just a thought to compare them in favor of meteor:
Picking up a pack with 200% of your weapon damage or so would lead you to only need to cast 1x Meteor but 2x Arcane Orbs.
I know it's situation-based but I think that's the whole point of Blizz's design, to make many viable situation-based builds and let you fit them to your own style of gaming. Meteor DOES need a buff to be considered really viable in my opinion, but I bet I'll give it a try even as it is right now.
That isn't kind of situational base, that is largely situational. There are a lot more than one type of monster in an area, so even if you could 1 shot one with meteor and not AO it wouldn't be that significant.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
The difference between AO and M is that AO explodes after the 1st hit and M can hit wherever you want. So in the hand of a experienced player M can hit more targets and get a higher damage per AP.
A example: http://pic2.178.com/...4a61ee9fd7b.png
In the case of the picture, Meteor hits 2 times of the targets compared with AO.
Obliteration runed AO: 35/228%
Molten Impact runed Meteor: 60/234+78%
35*2=70>60
228<234+78
So Meteor maybe much difficult to use, but eventually more efficient.(in the condition of the picture, other conditions? try it yourselves)
The difference between AO and M is that AO explodes after the 1st hit and M can hit wherever you want. So in the hand of a experiences player M can hit more targets and get a higher damage per AP.
A example:
Yes, AO's effective area is only about a semicircle, however, there is a good 1 second delay on meteor landing. In other words, you are going to miss a good portion of that AoE as well. The area is slightly bigger, but nothing amazing.
But I do agree with you actually. I think blizzard has it in for skills that get lobed. Look at firebomb for WD, its about half as potent as it used to be.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
The difference between AO and M is that AO explodes after the 1st hit and M can hit wherever you want. So in the hand of a experiences player M can hit more targets and get a higher damage per AP.
A example:
Yes, AO's effective area is only about a semicircle, however, there is a good 1 second delay on meteor landing. In other words, you are going to miss a good portion of that AoE as well. The area is slightly bigger, but nothing amazing.
But I do agree with you actually. I think blizzard has it in for skills that get lobed. Look at firebomb for WD, its about half as potent as it used to be.
True, that makes meteor not that efficient against fast movers compared with AO.
True, that makes meteor not that efficient against fast movers compared with AO.
While I agree that AO that is extremly good, I even made a topic about it here. I still think the "Comet" rune effect for "Meteor" is nice for a frost build, better than the "Blizzard" spell.
Use "Comet" which deals nice damage and slows them, finish them off with RoF - "Black Ice".
As far as the non-frost version of "Meteor" goes, I would go AO everytime.
So why is all this important? Simple. Given that these spells hit for similar amounts in a similar area, the only other means to quantify them is with efficiency...
I don't think so.
You're not looking at the mechanical differences. Arcane Orb can't penetrate a very large pack. At best it will do most of it's damage on the edge of a pack.
Meteor can be placed anywhere. It doesn't take much to aim it compared to Arcane Orb. You can strategically hit monsters anywhere as opposed to spells that don't penetrate monsters. The area that Meteor impacts is also larger than an Arcane Orb explosion.
As for the ground DoT, even if the initial mobs don't take all of it, other mobs most likely will. (I'm assuming large packs which is what Meteor seems built for).
So, I can definitely see a big difference between the spells and the reasoning for Meteor's AP cost, although it still may need a very slight decrease or a very slight damage increase (maybe 5 AP less or 15 more %WD).
So why is all this important? Simple. Given that these spells hit for similar amounts in a similar area, the only other means to quantify them is with efficiency...
I don't think so.
You're not looking at the mechanical differences. Arcane Orb can't penetrate a very large pack. At best it will do most of it's damage on the edge of a pack.
Meteor can be placed anywhere. It doesn't take much to aim it compared to Arcane Orb. You can strategically hit monsters anywhere as opposed to spells that don't penetrate monsters. The area that Meteor impacts is also larger than an Arcane Orb explosion.
As for the ground DoT, even if the initial mobs don't take all of it, other mobs most likely will. (I'm assuming large packs which is what Meteor seems built for).
So, I can definitely see a big difference between the spells and the reasoning for Meteor's AP cost, although it still may need a very slight decrease or a very slight damage increase (maybe 5 AP less or 15 more %WD).
I think you have that backwards. You can strategically place AO, and you drop meteor in a general area and hope mobs are still there.
Yes meteor seems to be about 12 yards, while AO is 10 yards.
No, it needs a large dmg increase to be usable imo. Its utter crap atm. The fact you can even KIND of compare it with a spell that cost nearly half is absurd. Especially considering the wizard signatures are generally so weak compared to other classes generators. Any time spent casting a generator is a HUGE loss in average dmg output.
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Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Arcane Orb is obviously better when it comes down to Weapon Damage % / Resource (AO deals 5%wd/AP and meteor deals 3%wd/AP, considering the full DoT).
AO AoE = 50*pi (consideraing it hits in semi circle)
Meteor AoE = 144*pi
It deals about the same damage per second, costs about twice, but has around three times the effective AoE. Sounds fair to me.
The 1 second delay is definetly a big burden for soloers, but I think most of it's annoyance fades in case you have a party member and that party member holds his position in the meteor impact area. You can even play that role if you're tanky wizard and do it solo (the same way D2 ES sorcs casted meteors in her feet).
Imo the DoT pool is actually a advantage. The same way monster can get out of the fire pool, other monster will move in, alloing meteor to damage more enemies then the ones inside the initial area. If you, your follower or a allies stand ground inside the fire pool, monster will allways move in and never move out.
I think Blizz just recently realised how AoE is powerful in this game. Look at all big AoE spells in the game and see how low the weapon damage per resource is (Acid Cloud, Seismic Slam, Wave of Light). For every enemy meteor hits and AO don't it deals 180% additional weapon damage. If you're facing a place with high monster density, meteor will much likely hit more enemies, making the 60 AP worth it.
Now if you says Energy Twister is gimped I agree 100%. I"m not denying it might need a buff either. Maybe it should deal 20% weapon damage or cost just 50 AP. But I don't think it's "gimped"... Energy Twister and Arcane Missiles are turelly gimped stuff imo.
It's possible the final version has different numbers.
Right now with these numbers its obviously not good, compared to AO, to be used as a main spell, it's usage is situational and to kill ennemies in the back or clusters you cannot reach with another kind of spell.
Also if I'm right meteor can benefit from a fire passive while arcane orb cannot.
You are assuming a large area is drastically superior, but that scenario won't pop up every single time.
Only way to prove this is on May 15th. We have no idea about mobs and their actions beyond the Skeletal King.
I will also state one thing, you're assuming that Signature spells cannot be used as main damage sources. I think that's shortsighted, I do agree that we need other damage spells, but its perfectly possible to create a viable build that uses a Signature as your main attack and not just a resource generator. In such builds, a Meteor spell which adds an element of crowd control is preferable to straight up AO.
Granted the rest of your abilities and item mods will need to be geared for this build (eg. + Faster casting) but it can be done, and many including myself will be doing it.
The only point I agree with is that a 3 sec DOT does not account for the additional 25AP that meteor costs. right now (if the site is correct) it deals 5% more dmg on impact, and does 60% dmg over 3 secs. If the effects overlap, and you have the AP for 3 castings of Meteor, That DOT dmg is now 40%-60% dmg every second.
So I would like to see some increase in either impact or DOT dmg but am not expecting a huge increase overall.
meteor- Star impact with diamond skin- prism, reduces the price to 20 arcane for 6 seconds, giving you just enough time to spam it until oom, then during the cd regen it with either some signature spells or ray of frost- cold blood.
Vif, Cold blood does more than your base regen, you must be reading an old rune, you would not gain AP back unless you combine a passive + familiar runed.
Cold blood costs 13 AP/s
you could also prism and spam AO, and do more damage per AP spent than meteor.
Meteors current implementation is gimp. Needs a buff.
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Yah you could do the same thing for AO, except the cost would go down to 5 AP. Which means you would actually gain AP while spamming it with prism up.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Epicurus
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Sadly unofficial sites are more upto date than the official.
This got me the other day. It seems blizzard knew Arcane Orb: Arcane Orbit was OP and nerfed it accordingly but I didn't know about it
They didn't nerf it because it was OP, they lowered the dmg of Arcane Orb, thus they also nerfed the runes with different dmg mechanics.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
That isn't kind of situational base, that is largely situational. There are a lot more than one type of monster in an area, so even if you could 1 shot one with meteor and not AO it wouldn't be that significant.
Epicurus
A example:
http://pic2.178.com/...4a61ee9fd7b.png
In the case of the picture, Meteor hits 2 times of the targets compared with AO.
Obliteration runed AO: 35/228%
Molten Impact runed Meteor: 60/234+78%
35*2=70>60
228<234+78
So Meteor maybe much difficult to use, but eventually more efficient.(in the condition of the picture, other conditions? try it yourselves)
Yes, AO's effective area is only about a semicircle, however, there is a good 1 second delay on meteor landing. In other words, you are going to miss a good portion of that AoE as well. The area is slightly bigger, but nothing amazing.
But I do agree with you actually. I think blizzard has it in for skills that get lobed. Look at firebomb for WD, its about half as potent as it used to be.
Epicurus
True, that makes meteor not that efficient against fast movers compared with AO.
While I agree that AO that is extremly good, I even made a topic about it here. I still think the "Comet" rune effect for "Meteor" is nice for a frost build, better than the "Blizzard" spell.
Use "Comet" which deals nice damage and slows them, finish them off with RoF - "Black Ice".
As far as the non-frost version of "Meteor" goes, I would go AO everytime.
I don't think so.
You're not looking at the mechanical differences. Arcane Orb can't penetrate a very large pack. At best it will do most of it's damage on the edge of a pack.
Meteor can be placed anywhere. It doesn't take much to aim it compared to Arcane Orb. You can strategically hit monsters anywhere as opposed to spells that don't penetrate monsters. The area that Meteor impacts is also larger than an Arcane Orb explosion.
As for the ground DoT, even if the initial mobs don't take all of it, other mobs most likely will. (I'm assuming large packs which is what Meteor seems built for).
So, I can definitely see a big difference between the spells and the reasoning for Meteor's AP cost, although it still may need a very slight decrease or a very slight damage increase (maybe 5 AP less or 15 more %WD).
Ohh the irony....
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Yes meteor seems to be about 12 yards, while AO is 10 yards.
No, it needs a large dmg increase to be usable imo. Its utter crap atm. The fact you can even KIND of compare it with a spell that cost nearly half is absurd. Especially considering the wizard signatures are generally so weak compared to other classes generators. Any time spent casting a generator is a HUGE loss in average dmg output.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
AO AoE = 50*pi (consideraing it hits in semi circle)
Meteor AoE = 144*pi
It deals about the same damage per second, costs about twice, but has around three times the effective AoE. Sounds fair to me.
The 1 second delay is definetly a big burden for soloers, but I think most of it's annoyance fades in case you have a party member and that party member holds his position in the meteor impact area. You can even play that role if you're tanky wizard and do it solo (the same way D2 ES sorcs casted meteors in her feet).
Imo the DoT pool is actually a advantage. The same way monster can get out of the fire pool, other monster will move in, alloing meteor to damage more enemies then the ones inside the initial area. If you, your follower or a allies stand ground inside the fire pool, monster will allways move in and never move out.
I think Blizz just recently realised how AoE is powerful in this game. Look at all big AoE spells in the game and see how low the weapon damage per resource is (Acid Cloud, Seismic Slam, Wave of Light). For every enemy meteor hits and AO don't it deals 180% additional weapon damage. If you're facing a place with high monster density, meteor will much likely hit more enemies, making the 60 AP worth it.
Now if you says Energy Twister is gimped I agree 100%. I"m not denying it might need a buff either. Maybe it should deal 20% weapon damage or cost just 50 AP. But I don't think it's "gimped"... Energy Twister and Arcane Missiles are turelly gimped stuff imo.
Right now with these numbers its obviously not good, compared to AO, to be used as a main spell, it's usage is situational and to kill ennemies in the back or clusters you cannot reach with another kind of spell.
Also if I'm right meteor can benefit from a fire passive while arcane orb cannot.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
I will also state one thing, you're assuming that Signature spells cannot be used as main damage sources. I think that's shortsighted, I do agree that we need other damage spells, but its perfectly possible to create a viable build that uses a Signature as your main attack and not just a resource generator. In such builds, a Meteor spell which adds an element of crowd control is preferable to straight up AO.
Granted the rest of your abilities and item mods will need to be geared for this build (eg. + Faster casting) but it can be done, and many including myself will be doing it.
The only point I agree with is that a 3 sec DOT does not account for the additional 25AP that meteor costs. right now (if the site is correct) it deals 5% more dmg on impact, and does 60% dmg over 3 secs. If the effects overlap, and you have the AP for 3 castings of Meteor, That DOT dmg is now 40%-60% dmg every second.
So I would like to see some increase in either impact or DOT dmg but am not expecting a huge increase overall.
I'm glad to see a boost on 5-15
Cold blood costs 13 AP/s
you could also prism and spam AO, and do more damage per AP spent than meteor.
Meteors current implementation is gimp. Needs a buff.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Epicurus