As you can see the problem with strafe is that it doesn't focus on one target. So you spend your entire hatred bar spinning around, and in the end you haven't killed anything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I have actually used it in this fight to great sucess but i think my weapon was a rare from another characters run i did. The biggest problem for me with it is the amount of hatred it consumes for the damage it does.
As a main attack skill you are absolutely correct, Strafe is not good...
However you've got to understand not every skill is just for damage, there is a lot mobility that comes with Strafe. All the other attack skills stop when you activate it, this does not. This is made to do some damage while you move, kind of like a ranged Whirlwind. The uncontrolled targeting obviously means that it's not going to be a primary Hatred spending skill for your build. As with all skills some runes might change that but it really depends what you are trying to use the skill for in your build, and that's the important thing to think about.
Remember your not going to have 5 main attack skills in your build. You minimumly need 1, and some builds may have up to 3 (1 single target Hatred Spender, 1 AoE Hatred Spender, and 1 Hatred Generator). The rest of the skills will be there to be used occationally, for example, Rain of Vengence for burst damage, Smoke Screen for escaping, and Caltrops for snare. Not every skill in your build needs to do the best damage at all times and if it does in later difficulties you will die because you will be overwhelmed by the Hordes.
Long story short (too late I know), you need to think about what a skill actual does and not just the damage it puts out before you say it sucks.
Edits: For Grammer
One more Edit: Looking at the vid, you can see Hungering Arrow was used as the main attack, and Strafe was used to get in a better position by not allowing the DH to get surrounded. The damage was just a bonus to the mobility. In all a pretty good example of how to use the base rune of the skill.
As a main attack skill you are absolutely correct, Strafe is not good...
However you've got to understand not every skill is just for damage, there is a lot mobility that comes with Strafe. All the other attack skills stop when you activate it, this does not. This is made to do some damage while you move, kind of like a ranged Whirlwind. The uncontrolled targeting obviously means that it's not going to be a primary Hatred spending skill for your build. As with all skills some runes might change that but it really depends what you are trying to use the skill for in your build, and that's the important thing to think about.
Remember your not going to have 5 main attack skills in your build. You minimumly need 1, and some builds may have up to 3 (1 single target Hatred Spender, 1 AoE Hatred Spender, and 1 Hatred Generator). The rest of the skills will be there to be used occationally, for example, Rain of Vengence for burst damage, Smoke Screen for escaping, and Caltrops for snare. Not every skill in your build needs to do the best damage at all times and if it does in later difficulties you will die because you will be overwhelmed by the Hordes.
Long story short (too late I know), you need to think about what a skill actual does and not just the damage it puts out before you say it sucks.
Edits: For Grammer
Vault then spam a damage efficient spell... well that just made strafe useless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
But didn't it do more damage than if you spam a single target spell as long time as you use strafe?
Just because it's aoe, doesn't mean it will do lesser damage. Ofcourse, it will only do more dps if there is plenty of enemies around you.
Keep in mind an enemy that isn't dead is an enemy that can still hurt you. If I had the choice of one shotting an enemy or needing 5 seconds to kill everything I'd take the one shot. By inferno you won't have the luxury of "oh they will die eventually".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
As a main attack skill you are absolutely correct, Strafe is not good...
However you've got to understand not every skill is just for damage, there is a lot mobility that comes with Strafe. All the other attack skills stop when you activate it, this does not. This is made to do some damage while you move, kind of like a ranged Whirlwind. The uncontrolled targeting obviously means that it's not going to be a primary Hatred spending skill for your build. As with all skills some runes might change that but it really depends what you are trying to use the skill for in your build, and that's the important thing to think about.
Remember your not going to have 5 main attack skills in your build. You minimumly need 1, and some builds may have up to 3 (1 single target Hatred Spender, 1 AoE Hatred Spender, and 1 Hatred Generator). The rest of the skills will be there to be used occationally, for example, Rain of Vengence for burst damage, Smoke Screen for escaping, and Caltrops for snare. Not every skill in your build needs to do the best damage at all times and if it does in later difficulties you will die because you will be overwhelmed by the Hordes.
Long story short (too late I know), you need to think about what a skill actual does and not just the damage it puts out before you say it sucks.
Edits: For Grammer
Vault then spam a damage efficient spell... well that just made strafe useless.
No, that just made strafe different.
You might say that Vault and Multishot/Rapidfire. would be more effective, making strafe pointless. Sure. But you're arguing that two skills to do a more effective job than just one, and nobody's going to debate that.
Taking out small targets without sacrificing too much mobility could be incredibly viable, especially since it only takes up one skill spot and, most importantly, only uses one of your two resources.
Remember that Vault is dependant on discipline which, in fights where movement is critical, could be in short supply. You're also spending hatred on Multishot/RF. Considering the benefits, strafe is pretty resource efficient. It still leaves you the option to use defensive abilities when they're critical, as opposed to burning through them as part of a regular strategy.
Vault then spam a damage efficient spell... well that just made strafe useless.
You are correct, that does do the same thing, In early game one Vault plus the efficient attack skill may indeed be enough to kill everything before you need to Vault again. But later on that might not be the case. When you start having to Vault multiple times it gets expensive on the Discipline and the Acrobatics rune has a 15 second cooldown. Eventually you are going to run out. Now yes of course you can have skills to gain it back faster, but the point is Vault is going to have it's downside too.
Strafe will also get you into a more favorible position just like Vault, but it does it differently. It's slower, but it comes with built in damage (not a lot but some) and it uses Hatred which you have a lot more of thus takes longer to drain.
I feel like both skills have their uses, but you probably are not going to use both in a build. They both do somethings well, and have some downsides. This means we have to choose which one we like better, and that's the point of the skill design.
My point to the OP was that Strafe isn't a main damage skill so its damage can't be compared to other main damage skills. By doing so you miss the good part of the skill. In no way am I saying am I defending it to the point of saying you must have it in your build. Just that if you going to analyze a skill make sure you are looking at all parts of it, not just the damage.
You might say that Vault and Multishot would be more effective, making strafe pointless. Sure. But you're arguing that two skills to do a more effective job than just one, and nobody's going to debate that.
Also remember that Vault is dependant on discipline which, in fights where movement is that critical, could be in short supply. Taking out targets without sacrificing too much mobility could be incredibly viable, especially since it only takes up one skill spot.
Well I'd be keeping a discipline spell no matter what in any build so it’s not like I'm wasting a slot just to have an improvement over strafe. Honestly using strafe as a method to get away and do minimal amounts of damage is not appealing, you'll waste half of your hatred before you reach a safe distance (if that’s even possible because you don't move very fast). I think temporarily draining your hatred to nothing just for an evasive maneuver isn't worth it compared to only a couple of discipline.
EDIT:
@Blue
I get your point now; I still think it's a poor choice for many situations unless you have a rocket or grenade build.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
You might say that Vault and Multishot would be more effective, making strafe pointless. Sure. But you're arguing that two skills to do a more effective job than just one, and nobody's going to debate that.
Also remember that Vault is dependant on discipline which, in fights where movement is that critical, could be in short supply. Taking out targets without sacrificing too much mobility could be incredibly viable, especially since it only takes up one skill spot.
Well I'd be keeping a discipline spell no matter what in any build so it’s not like I'm wasting a slot just to have an improvement over strafe. Honestly using strafe as a method to get away and do minimal amounts of damage is not appealing, you'll waste half of your hatred before you reach a safe distance (if that’s even possible because you don't move very fast). I think temporarily draining your hatred to nothing just for an evasive maneuver isn't worth it compared to only a couple of discipline.
I think that's the problem right there. Strafe really isn't intended as an ability to get you out of trouble, it's an ability intended to keep you away from it to begin with. The idea is to maximize time and throughput before you need to get away. It's also a way to stay mobile and herd creatures without losing any damage in the process. I don't think anyone intends to use it as a direct alternative to vault.
well u can see that those shots r auto targeting which means u always hit some thing or anything in the room. plus i think u underestimated the mobility value of this ability - true u got vault but that cost discipline which got longer regan.
tho i believe this ability for farming low lvl acts or if u got a very good weapon on u will not use anything else :). true that an ability shouldn't be focused on low lvl farming but as i said it got it's advantages even in higher lvls.
let me give u an example from D2 - 1 of the most annoying mobs(imho) r the imps in act 5 that teleport - if there r those kind of mobs in D3( which i believe there r something similar), this ability will work wonders with them.
every1 with their own opinion and gameplay style and this is my opinion
I think that's the problem right there. Strafe really isn't intended as an ability to get you out of trouble, it's an ability intended to keep you away from it to begin with. The idea is to maximize time and throughput before you need to get away. It's also a way to stay mobile and herd creatures without losing any damage in the process. I don't think anyone intends to use it as a direct alternative to vault.
That's why this is going to be amazing game it’s all personal preference. You interpret and strategize differently than I do. To me efficiency is how beneficial my style is on the resources I have. I prefer achieving a task using the least amount of resources possible. By end game with gear and full builds it might be much more viable (in my terms) but until then it will likely be a move I will avoid.
EDIT:
@ Arrok, I get what you’re saying but that's not a good example considering the DH is ranged and has auto targeting abilities Plus this is a good conversation; this is a point of a forum no?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Well I'd be keeping a discipline spell no matter what in any build so it’s not like I'm wasting a slot just to have an improvement over strafe...
I get your point now; I still think it's a poor choice for many situations unless you have a rocket or grenade build.
I do agree that using Discipline is important and that we should not get too Hatred happy in our builds. Vault is definitely an awesome mobility skill. But in some builds I'm going to be using my Discpline in other ways and don't have room for Vault, well then Strafe makes a good alternative, or Evasive Fire if I don't have the Hatred or Discpline (cost half as much). This is why I don't consider it useless. It's may not be the first choice for some builds, but it will have a place in others.
It's not meant to be a giant aoe. It's far more useful on small packs like 3-5 at most. That actually makes it a pretty unique skill since even though it doesn't actually 'aoe' it fires faster than you could otherwise and is nice in small packs, plus you still get to move around while firing, which every other skill makes you stop for a second.
It's not meant to be a giant aoe. It's far more useful on small packs like 3-5 at most. That actually makes it a pretty unique skill since even though it doesn't actually 'aoe' it fires faster than you could otherwise and is nice in small packs, plus you still get to move around while firing, which every other skill makes you stop for a second.
It's not useless by any means.
Edit: Also very useful in pvp.
Sure you shoot faster, but for less. So the overall dmg is still only 120% wpn dmg. So you are spending a buttload of hatred to do auto-shot while you move essentially....
There is some potential with Stinging Steel or Rocket Storm though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Alright, I've "Overachieved and Betamaxed" a few times now (I'm not trying to impress anyone I'm just demonstrating that I've put in my time on the beta). On this topic I felt compelled to say something:
Strafe is fanstastic for what it's intended for: It's a highly mobile skill that allows you to finish off weakened or low hp enemies quickly and effectively without the need to single target everything. While it was available it was always on my hotbar.
It's not the most effective AoE in terms of raw damage throughput and it's not the most effective AoE in terms of resource spending - but it's damn viable for both without the need to take up 2 slots and it affords you another escape mechanic if you're pinned and out of discipline (ie vault, smokescreen, etc.).
A runed bolo-shot (increased AoE) at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock followed by a quick strafe clears a room pretty quickly.
You also have to factor in how effective it is as taking down "runners" like the Imps that will gather more enemies - they have very low hp but it's not easy to target them all when they're runnin in 15 different directions. Strafe, win.
I had more fun on the DH with a hotbar composed almost entirely of mobility skills than with anything else. In patch 13 I ran Evasive Fire (Mouse1), Bolo (Mouse2), Strafe (1), and Vault (2) for a while. After just a few minutes I dropped vault entirely for Rapid fire to increase DPS throughput because strafe paired with vault was more than effective enough in creating the comfort zone I liked.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Liquid Cooled Intel I7 2700k OC'd to 5.0ghz at a max pull of 1.44v ~ 19-21C Idle ~ 68C max under load.
16GB G Skill Ram ~ 2x Mushkin 120GB SSD's ~ MSI GTX 570 Twin Frozer ~ Asus P8P67 Deluxe
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfjX4Fu1hgY
As you can see the problem with strafe is that it doesn't focus on one target. So you spend your entire hatred bar spinning around, and in the end you haven't killed anything.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Still the best jar breaker though
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
However you've got to understand not every skill is just for damage, there is a lot mobility that comes with Strafe. All the other attack skills stop when you activate it, this does not. This is made to do some damage while you move, kind of like a ranged Whirlwind. The uncontrolled targeting obviously means that it's not going to be a primary Hatred spending skill for your build. As with all skills some runes might change that but it really depends what you are trying to use the skill for in your build, and that's the important thing to think about.
Remember your not going to have 5 main attack skills in your build. You minimumly need 1, and some builds may have up to 3 (1 single target Hatred Spender, 1 AoE Hatred Spender, and 1 Hatred Generator). The rest of the skills will be there to be used occationally, for example, Rain of Vengence for burst damage, Smoke Screen for escaping, and Caltrops for snare. Not every skill in your build needs to do the best damage at all times and if it does in later difficulties you will die because you will be overwhelmed by the Hordes.
Long story short (too late I know), you need to think about what a skill actual does and not just the damage it puts out before you say it sucks.
Edits: For Grammer
One more Edit: Looking at the vid, you can see Hungering Arrow was used as the main attack, and Strafe was used to get in a better position by not allowing the DH to get surrounded. The damage was just a bonus to the mobility. In all a pretty good example of how to use the base rune of the skill.
Vault then spam a damage efficient spell... well that just made strafe useless.
Keep in mind an enemy that isn't dead is an enemy that can still hurt you. If I had the choice of one shotting an enemy or needing 5 seconds to kill everything I'd take the one shot. By inferno you won't have the luxury of "oh they will die eventually".
No, that just made strafe different.
You might say that Vault and Multishot/Rapidfire. would be more effective, making strafe pointless. Sure. But you're arguing that two skills to do a more effective job than just one, and nobody's going to debate that.
Taking out small targets without sacrificing too much mobility could be incredibly viable, especially since it only takes up one skill spot and, most importantly, only uses one of your two resources.
Remember that Vault is dependant on discipline which, in fights where movement is critical, could be in short supply. You're also spending hatred on Multishot/RF. Considering the benefits, strafe is pretty resource efficient. It still leaves you the option to use defensive abilities when they're critical, as opposed to burning through them as part of a regular strategy.
Edit: structure/clarity.
You are correct, that does do the same thing, In early game one Vault plus the efficient attack skill may indeed be enough to kill everything before you need to Vault again. But later on that might not be the case. When you start having to Vault multiple times it gets expensive on the Discipline and the Acrobatics rune has a 15 second cooldown. Eventually you are going to run out. Now yes of course you can have skills to gain it back faster, but the point is Vault is going to have it's downside too.
Strafe will also get you into a more favorible position just like Vault, but it does it differently. It's slower, but it comes with built in damage (not a lot but some) and it uses Hatred which you have a lot more of thus takes longer to drain.
I feel like both skills have their uses, but you probably are not going to use both in a build. They both do somethings well, and have some downsides. This means we have to choose which one we like better, and that's the point of the skill design.
My point to the OP was that Strafe isn't a main damage skill so its damage can't be compared to other main damage skills. By doing so you miss the good part of the skill. In no way am I saying am I defending it to the point of saying you must have it in your build. Just that if you going to analyze a skill make sure you are looking at all parts of it, not just the damage.
Well I'd be keeping a discipline spell no matter what in any build so it’s not like I'm wasting a slot just to have an improvement over strafe. Honestly using strafe as a method to get away and do minimal amounts of damage is not appealing, you'll waste half of your hatred before you reach a safe distance (if that’s even possible because you don't move very fast). I think temporarily draining your hatred to nothing just for an evasive maneuver isn't worth it compared to only a couple of discipline.
EDIT:
@Blue
I get your point now; I still think it's a poor choice for many situations unless you have a rocket or grenade build.
that's about it
I think that's the problem right there. Strafe really isn't intended as an ability to get you out of trouble, it's an ability intended to keep you away from it to begin with. The idea is to maximize time and throughput before you need to get away. It's also a way to stay mobile and herd creatures without losing any damage in the process. I don't think anyone intends to use it as a direct alternative to vault.
tho i believe this ability for farming low lvl acts or if u got a very good weapon on u will not use anything else :). true that an ability shouldn't be focused on low lvl farming but as i said it got it's advantages even in higher lvls.
let me give u an example from D2 - 1 of the most annoying mobs(imho) r the imps in act 5 that teleport - if there r those kind of mobs in D3( which i believe there r something similar), this ability will work wonders with them.
every1 with their own opinion and gameplay style and this is my opinion
best regards,
Arrok
That's why this is going to be amazing game it’s all personal preference. You interpret and strategize differently than I do. To me efficiency is how beneficial my style is on the resources I have. I prefer achieving a task using the least amount of resources possible. By end game with gear and full builds it might be much more viable (in my terms) but until then it will likely be a move I will avoid.
EDIT:
@ Arrok, I get what you’re saying but that's not a good example considering the DH is ranged and has auto targeting abilities Plus this is a good conversation; this is a point of a forum no?
I do agree that using Discipline is important and that we should not get too Hatred happy in our builds. Vault is definitely an awesome mobility skill. But in some builds I'm going to be using my Discpline in other ways and don't have room for Vault, well then Strafe makes a good alternative, or Evasive Fire if I don't have the Hatred or Discpline (cost half as much). This is why I don't consider it useless. It's may not be the first choice for some builds, but it will have a place in others.
/agree
-Kevin Martens
Strafe is amazing in that room full of jars before SK, assuming you are interested in getting a high destruction bonus.
PS: One doesn't have to use vault. Evasive fire is quite interesting as well.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
It's not useless by any means.
Edit: Also very useful in pvp.
There is some potential with Stinging Steel or Rocket Storm though.
Epicurus
Strafe is fanstastic for what it's intended for: It's a highly mobile skill that allows you to finish off weakened or low hp enemies quickly and effectively without the need to single target everything. While it was available it was always on my hotbar.
It's not the most effective AoE in terms of raw damage throughput and it's not the most effective AoE in terms of resource spending - but it's damn viable for both without the need to take up 2 slots and it affords you another escape mechanic if you're pinned and out of discipline (ie vault, smokescreen, etc.).
A runed bolo-shot (increased AoE) at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock followed by a quick strafe clears a room pretty quickly.
You also have to factor in how effective it is as taking down "runners" like the Imps that will gather more enemies - they have very low hp but it's not easy to target them all when they're runnin in 15 different directions. Strafe, win.
I had more fun on the DH with a hotbar composed almost entirely of mobility skills than with anything else. In patch 13 I ran Evasive Fire (Mouse1), Bolo (Mouse2), Strafe (1), and Vault (2) for a while. After just a few minutes I dropped vault entirely for Rapid fire to increase DPS throughput because strafe paired with vault was more than effective enough in creating the comfort zone I liked.
16GB G Skill Ram ~ 2x Mushkin 120GB SSD's ~ MSI GTX 570 Twin Frozer ~ Asus P8P67 Deluxe