The inventory dps dont really tell you anything.. There is so much difference between the different classes and builds.
A player with 100k inventory dps could really dish out more damage then a other player with a inventory dps of 400k.
It kinda work the same way as how much health points (life) you have.. That number alone dont really tell you anything about how much damage you can take before you die.
So we the community started to use the term EHP (effective health points) as a number when we want to compare how much damage we can take before we die..
The same way we should stop using the dps number that show up in our inventory when we want to compare the actual damage output between different classes and builds.
A more accurate term is EDPS (effective damage per sec)
The easiest way to find your own edps is to kill ghom on whatever monster power level you want. Divide the time used on how much ehp ghom have in your current mp level, and you have your edps.
There is one problem with this approach tho, and that is.. We are only measuring the single target EDPS. But it is still the best/easiest way when we want to compare "real dps"
I myself can output ~13 mil EDPS with a burst build, and can sustain ~7 mil EDPS. (can link videos)
Just for fun i also made a useless inventory dps screenshot
First- you have to understand what looking at a number in diablo means for me.
if i see a number i wanna compare it to myself numbers. Such there has to be a comparable basis - which are paper dps, since its derived only from gear.
Thus unbuffed paper dps is just a metrik to show the offensive qualities of your gear.
Since not all classes have the same amount of buffs to push paper dps up its not comparable any more.
of course you can compare two barbs buffed dps ,but you can find out which gear delivers more offense just by looking at the unbuffed dps.
Quote: Why wouldn't buffed count? WoTB has so high uptime you almost never refresh it. Because not every class has WOTB in short : unbuffed paper dps allows you to compare every gear set with your own . because its calculated the same way - just with mainstat switched out. you cant do that with buffed dps. because buffed dps only shows the capabilities of your class and how good use u make of your gear. Thats nothing iam interested in since those are your personal decisions / playstyles. Diablo3 is not that hard that this would say anything about your diablo3 skill . Diablo3 skills is not existent - or differntly formulated : Differences between clases are uninteresting because no choice made for your character is permanent. (because you dont have a fixed skill tree anymore)
exactly !
unbuffed dps is pure - meaningfull show-off because its the same for every class
buffed dps is pure nonsense show-off because its not the same for every class
exactly !
unbuffed dps is pure - meaningfull show-off because its the same for every class
buffed dps is pure nonsense show-off because its not the same for every class
I have to disagree with your post.
You can only compare real damage output with buffed/unbuffed inventory dps numbers, if both toons are the same class and use the exact same build.
I can dig up a thread over at the US Forum, showing a 100k dps monk outdps a 500k dps DH on Ghom, if you want.
This only shows that inventory dps is a bad to use when you want to compare real damage output, be it buffed or unbuffed, it simply dont matter.
Thats why i think you just should forget about this inventory dps, and focus on EDPS instead, just like we do with EHP.. (thats why you dont see anyone post threads about their toons with 150k health points with 100 allres, we all know that is glass cannon)
@ Turtel
To me, the only dps number that would mildly interest me is tDPS. Obviously tDPS calculations are approximations or assuming perfect play, but it's much closer to reality. When you play your character, you're trying to stay fully buffed, aren't you?
There is only one problem with TDPS.. That metric only works on a ww/nado build. It wont give correct numbers for any other build. (HotA)
The reason for this is that ww/nado is heavily depended on how high IAS breakpoint u can reach. (how fast your nado ticks)
In other barbs builds its not that important..
The only way we can compare real damage output across different classes and builds, are to use EDPS
@ Strafir
Based on the pictures and captions i can clearly see that you are taking this to an extreme. Its obvious to anyone that having a high sheet number makes very little difference if you do not have the tools to use it, like your screenshot would demonstrate. What OP provided was a screenshot of a build and gearset that has very strong aoe and single target functions with buffs that are more than just tools to bump the digits, yet he got ridiculed by people who think you and him share the same mindset.
I dont really understand what you meant with this comment.
But if you are saying you think "i don't i have the tools to use my gear/damage" i can post you a few videos:
Diablo 3: World Record Uberbosses Solo Speedkill in 2min and 56sec @
Killtimes:
Rakanoth and Ghom = 25.959 sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 73.807 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 76.276 sec
Diablo 3: World Record Uberbosses Group Speedkill in 1 min and 20 sec @
Rakanoth and Ghom = 11.833 sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 17.100 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 51.887 sec
Iam ranked #1 barb in farming demonic essences with 43.26 per hour on average.
1 hour VotA mp7 run @
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want more videos, i can post more, now sit down
When I see that someone has 500 mil worth gems, I instantly stop reading the post. Makes me feel sad seeing people who rape their credit cards so hard still post and show off on the forums. Jesus Christ.
So you decided to just ignore when it was stated twice that class-to-class arguments have no value in a thread posted in a class specific section of the forum. Secondly, the screen you posted first was a result of you picking an arsenal of buffs that grant you the highest sheet dps possible without any tools to use it, when OPs screen provided and got ridiculed by a usable setup.
I think you should re-read what i wrote.
We all agree on the screenshot i posted is useless, as it dont really tell you anything about how much real damage i can dish out. It was only made to show how easy it is to showoff a high inventory dps, without any usefulness..
Its the same with unbuffed stats over @ diabloprogress, most of the highest unbuffed dps toons are glasscannon characters without any means to keep alive in actual play. But thats a whole different story that belong in a other thread. (300k ehp with zero lifesteal)
Thats why i suggest people should start to use the EDPS metric instead of inventory dps, as it will give you a better view on how much damage you do in actual play..
*edit*
If you are set on using unbuffed stats from diabloprogress i suggest to use the metric found over in the "Hall of Godly Barbarians" thread linked in my last post, as it will give you a much better ranking on how effective your character are ingame in real play, then diabloprogress ranking system ever will..
Hall Formula:
1) DPS_score is DPS/1000. This number is multiplied by half the bonus damage to elites.
2) Raw_EHP_score is based on EHP.
EHP up to 1M Score = EHP/10,000
EHP from 1M-2M = 100 + (EHP-1M)/20,000
EHP from 2M-5M = 150 + (EHP-2M)/40,000
EHP > 5M = 225 + (EHP-5M)/100,000
2b) Unlike in previous editions of the Hall formula, Rubies in the helm will not be calculated. If you want the EHP, then add an amethyst to the helm. By now, most people have high paragon levels and it's not needed to adjust for this.
2c) EHP is calculated from scratch. Block ehp is reduced by 25% for PVP and Dodge ehp is reduced 25% for PVE and 50% for PVP. Inherent Damage Reduction is 30% for PVE and 35% for PVP.
Theoretically, the coefficient for LS should be .2, but in practice LS is much better than this for barbarians. Also I'm giving partial credit for AS and LOH because you're not really attacking 100% at all times.
When I see that someone has 500 mil worth gems, I instantly stop reading the post. Makes me feel sad seeing people who rape their credit cards so hard still post and show off on the forums. Jesus Christ.
Why does someone automatically use a credit card when he has marquise gems in all slots. I also have the 62 gems in all of my slots. Because you dont have the gold to craft them and others are better than you in getting gold due having luck or for the reason that they are just good at playing the ah doesnt mean everyone is paying for the game.
My neighbour for example has so much luck in this game that he found a witching hour at the very beginning and sold it for 800m or just a few weeks ago he found a ring that he sold for 4 billion.
Well if the only way for YOU to get these gems is using your credit card.... Thats another topic
A guy who has one character, 6k elite and 160k monster kills has best gems in game, not to mention other billion items he has.
I have 41k elite kills and 800k monster kills and I m not even close to maquise gems. I have over 1200 hours played and never got a single item that's worth more then 50mils, just as most of other people.
buffed is only for show
Nothing to add
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
A player with 100k inventory dps could really dish out more damage then a other player with a inventory dps of 400k.
It kinda work the same way as how much health points (life) you have.. That number alone dont really tell you anything about how much damage you can take before you die.
So we the community started to use the term EHP (effective health points) as a number when we want to compare how much damage we can take before we die..
EHP = health points * allres * armor * block * dodge.
The same way we should stop using the dps number that show up in our inventory when we want to compare the actual damage output between different classes and builds.
A more accurate term is EDPS (effective damage per sec)
The easiest way to find your own edps is to kill ghom on whatever monster power level you want. Divide the time used on how much ehp ghom have in your current mp level, and you have your edps.
There is one problem with this approach tho, and that is.. We are only measuring the single target EDPS. But it is still the best/easiest way when we want to compare "real dps"
I myself can output ~13 mil EDPS with a burst build, and can sustain ~7 mil EDPS. (can link videos)
Just for fun i also made a useless inventory dps screenshot
why i said that buffed dps is uninteresting:
First- you have to understand what looking at a number in diablo means for me.
if i see a number i wanna compare it to myself numbers. Such there has to be a comparable basis - which are paper dps, since its derived only from gear.
Thus unbuffed paper dps is just a metrik to show the offensive qualities of your gear.
Since not all classes have the same amount of buffs to push paper dps up its not comparable any more.
of course you can compare two barbs buffed dps ,but you can find out which gear delivers more offense just by looking at the unbuffed dps.
Quote: Why wouldn't buffed count? WoTB has so high uptime you almost never refresh it.
Because not every class has WOTB
in short : unbuffed paper dps allows you to compare every gear set with your own . because its calculated the same way - just with mainstat switched out.
you cant do that with buffed dps. because buffed dps only shows the capabilities of your class and how good use u make of your gear. Thats nothing iam interested in since those are your personal decisions / playstyles. Diablo3 is not that hard that this would say anything about your diablo3 skill .
Diablo3 skills is not existent - or differntly formulated : Differences between clases are uninteresting because no choice made for your character is permanent. (because you dont have a fixed skill tree anymore)
exactly !
unbuffed dps is pure - meaningfull show-off because its the same for every class
buffed dps is pure nonsense show-off because its not the same for every class
but i come from the front page and did not see that this is barbarian forum
lets agree on we're both right
I have to disagree with your post.
You can only compare real damage output with buffed/unbuffed inventory dps numbers, if both toons are the same class and use the exact same build.
I can dig up a thread over at the US Forum, showing a 100k dps monk outdps a 500k dps DH on Ghom, if you want.
This only shows that inventory dps is a bad to use when you want to compare real damage output, be it buffed or unbuffed, it simply dont matter.
Thats why i think you just should forget about this inventory dps, and focus on EDPS instead, just like we do with EHP.. (thats why you dont see anyone post threads about their toons with 150k health points with 100 allres, we all know that is glass cannon)
@ Turtel
There is only one problem with TDPS.. That metric only works on a ww/nado build. It wont give correct numbers for any other build. (HotA)
The reason for this is that ww/nado is heavily depended on how high IAS breakpoint u can reach. (how fast your nado ticks)
In other barbs builds its not that important..
The only way we can compare real damage output across different classes and builds, are to use EDPS
@ Strafir
I dont really understand what you meant with this comment.
But if you are saying you think "i don't i have the tools to use my gear/damage" i can post you a few videos:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diablo 3: World Record Uberbosses Solo Speedkill in 2min and 56sec @
Killtimes:
Rakanoth and Ghom = 25.959 sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 73.807 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 76.276 sec
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diablo 3: World Record Uberbosses Group Speedkill in 1 min and 20 sec @
Rakanoth and Ghom = 11.833 sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 17.100 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 51.887 sec
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Barbarian 1 hour essence challenge @ http://us.battle.net...68378716?page=1
Iam ranked #1 barb in farming demonic essences with 43.26 per hour on average.
1 hour VotA mp7 run @
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want more videos, i can post more, now sit down
ps.
You can also checkout the Hall of Godly Barbarians 3.0 highscores @ http://us.battle.net...68399008?page=1
I think you should re-read what i wrote.
We all agree on the screenshot i posted is useless, as it dont really tell you anything about how much real damage i can dish out. It was only made to show how easy it is to showoff a high inventory dps, without any usefulness..
Its the same with unbuffed stats over @ diabloprogress, most of the highest unbuffed dps toons are glasscannon characters without any means to keep alive in actual play. But thats a whole different story that belong in a other thread. (300k ehp with zero lifesteal)
Thats why i suggest people should start to use the EDPS metric instead of inventory dps, as it will give you a better view on how much damage you do in actual play..
*edit*
If you are set on using unbuffed stats from diabloprogress i suggest to use the metric found over in the "Hall of Godly Barbarians" thread linked in my last post, as it will give you a much better ranking on how effective your character are ingame in real play, then diabloprogress ranking system ever will..
Hall Formula:
1) DPS_score is DPS/1000. This number is multiplied by half the bonus damage to elites.
2) Raw_EHP_score is based on EHP.
EHP up to 1M Score = EHP/10,000
EHP from 1M-2M = 100 + (EHP-1M)/20,000
EHP from 2M-5M = 150 + (EHP-2M)/40,000
EHP > 5M = 225 + (EHP-5M)/100,000
2b) Unlike in previous editions of the Hall formula, Rubies in the helm will not be calculated. If you want the EHP, then add an amethyst to the helm. By now, most people have high paragon levels and it's not needed to adjust for this.
2c) EHP is calculated from scratch. Block ehp is reduced by 25% for PVP and Dodge ehp is reduced 25% for PVE and 50% for PVP. Inherent Damage Reduction is 30% for PVE and 35% for PVP.
3) Raw_Sustain_score = 1 + Mitigation*(LOH*(1+(APS-1)/2) + eff_ls + Regen ) / (HP*EHP_score*10,000/EHP)
Mitigation = EHP/HP
eff_ls = DPS*ls*.5
Theoretically, the coefficient for LS should be .2, but in practice LS is much better than this for barbarians. Also I'm giving partial credit for AS and LOH because you're not really attacking 100% at all times.
3b) Net_Sustain_score =
If raw_sustain <= 1.5, net_sustain = raw_sustain
If 1.5 < raw_sustain <=2, net_sustain = 1.5 + (raw_sustain - 1.5)/2
If 2 < raw_sustain <=3, net_sustain = 1.75 + (raw_sustain - 2)/4
If raw_sustain > 3, net_sustain = 2 + (raw_sustain -3)/10
4) Move_score = 1 + Move speed.
It helps both combat and farming. This score is capped at 25%.
5) Paragon_score = 1 + 1% per 2 paragon levels.
PVE Hall_score = DPS_score * Net_EHP_score * Net_Sustain_score * Move_score * Paragon_score
A guy who has one character, 6k elite and 160k monster kills has best gems in game, not to mention other billion items he has.
I have 41k elite kills and 800k monster kills and I m not even close to maquise gems. I have over 1200 hours played and never got a single item that's worth more then 50mils, just as most of other people.
Simplified enough to you now ?
Again, congrats to the OP - if you felt good about achieving that dps, that's awesome! Keep having a great time.
I'll close this hugely derailed thread now.