You didn't say anything valid... I explicitly told you why skills have a cooldown (skill bars and cycling in skills).
You didn't explicitly give a valid reason for why cooldowns are bad other than OMGZZ I CAN'T SPAMZZZZ.
I am not talking about the games in the year 2012 or anything past 2002, it is obvious why these systems are impleminted NOW, in the current time and date. I never once complained about a cool down, maybe you imagined it but it did not happen. I simply said diablo is spam and WoW is cooldowns. Is that negative at all? No it is not. I then proved to the other poster that diablo is in fact spam considering the last games over the current. The current is in beta form and not out yet so it cannot define what diablo is. You bought all of your own hostility into it, as well as name calling.
In order to put this topic back on track, let's end this flamewar with this: Welcome to 2012.
Personnaly, I think long cooldown abilities (even if 2min is not that long imo) is a part of a distinct category of abilities. Adding one or many to your skills slots will bring pros and cons to your character, it all depends on the kind of player you are:
If you prefer your character to feel like you are at your best all the time, you probably won't pick one of these abilities.
But if you prefer to feel a little bit weaker most of the time but able to pop a life-saver ability against a champion pack that would wreck you, you will probably take at least 1 of those skills.
To sum it up, these skills are there because some people will like to have them the way they are, if you don't pick another skill. I personnaly will have earthquake on my bar, and will definatly try a full bul-kathos 2min cd skills.
I personally will have my thee guardians with me for my 2 minute cooldown. My build will be composed of leaping with Crash, Charging, and shockwaves(siesmic crash?). I will also glyph the thee guardians for charge or leap, this is not a max damage, defense, or atttack build, it is just simply, a fun build.
Those huge cool-down spells aren't just there for eye candy. They exist as the main 'Oh shit' mode for characters, basically meaning they are used for situations where you are on the brink of death or in a tough boss fight where you need to really kick your character into super saiyan mode, if you will,
You will find yourself waiting between packs. you'll see. even if you try to juggle between them, its still more then one minute for each skill until its up again, and the game has a very high pace.
People that complain about the 120 sec cooldown, fail to see the purpose of thous skills. They are your backup, heavy artillery for when you come across big bad guys. You are to use them on elite's, champion packs and bosses. And they are suposed to make you feel Godlike, it would have no point if you could end up using it 24/7, then it would be just another normal skill and not a limit braker it is with a long cooldown and high power.
I see the purpose. I just think it can be of the same purpose but with a LOWER COOLDOWN. two minutes is HARSH man. TOO harsh for skills so epic. ONE minute seems fair, 45 seconds with runes. id rather them do 40% weap damage and use them more often then have ultra mega skills once per hour.
One minute is still a lot to justify an "OH SHIT" button. This isn't an MMO, this is a fast paced game where you want to spam and kill stuff as much and as fast as possible rather then sitting around and waiting for CD's to go.
I do agree that having long cooldowns basically anything 1 min or greater makes me want to choose that skill less - only thing that changes this is if the skill has an ability to prolong the uptime (the wrath and the archon skills)
Id rather be good most of the time then be excellent only part of the time ... even ignore pains 30 second cooldown is a bit much IMO but 30 seconds isnt too bad considering ...
oh btw does the cooldown start once you activate the skill or once the skill is done being used? ... like ignore pain 30 seconds from end or 25 seconds from the push of the button?
Cooldown starts when you activate it. so yes, its 25 seconds "technically".
Our companions aren't THAT powerful to justify a 2 minute cooldown.
Assuming that each ancient only attacks once every 2 seconds (.5 APS), that's still 2250% weapon damage over 15 seconds, 2/3 of which is aoe (WW and cleave).
That is also with a VERY conservative attack rate, and completely discounts their abilities, not to mention the fact that they decrease the damage you'll be taking.
at 1 APS, we're at 4500%, which i'm pretty sure is the single most damaging ability in the game. I had originally thought that 1 APS from the ancients would be their attack rate, but that 4500% looks so large that i can't imagine they'll let them attack that fast. Mystic ally would do that damage in a little less than the course of the whole cooldown, also assuming 1 APS, and as far as i'm aware isn't AOE. Raven companion would do less.
Our companions aren't THAT powerful to justify a 2 minute cooldown.
Assuming that each ancient only attacks once every 2 seconds (.5 APS), that's still 2250% weapon damage over 15 seconds, 2/3 of which is aoe (WW and cleave).
That is also with a VERY conservative attack rate, and completely discounts their abilities, not to mention the fact that they decrease the damage you'll be taking.
at 1 APS, we're at 4500%, which i'm pretty sure is the single most damaging ability in the game. I had originally thought that 1 APS from the ancients would be their attack rate, but that 4500% looks so large that i can't imagine they'll let them attack that fast. Mystic ally would do that damage in a little less than the course of the whole cooldown, also assuming 1 APS, and as far as i'm aware isn't AOE. Raven companion would do less.
you are making call of the ancients sound much more appealing ... 2 mins is still a long cooldown thou ...
I don't care if it does 10000000000% weapon damage over 20 seconds. I HATE LONG COOLDOWNS, and as said above, ITS NOT APPEALING to me, And I don't feel like taking an ability that I can use only once every two minutes! even "OH SHIT" buttons aren't supposed to be that long. "Ignore Pain" is an OH SHIT button and its every 30 seconds. Take serenity, the ULTIMATE oh shit button. Immune to EVERYTHING, and has 20 second CD! I'm not trying to compare because the skills are completely different, but just saying this to remove the ridicules argument that an "OH SHIT" button needs to have a long cooldown.
Tbh, I don't really see myself using much of those long-cooldown skills... I'd rather grab yet another skill to prevent bad situations in the first place.
@ Malkishua, you're assuming too much. I've played Diablo for 12 years and know the pace. But we both can't make an educated guess on how long inferno mobs will take to kill.
Also with the proper cycling of cooldowns, you will be waiting max 30 seconds between each ability. With charge, revenge, tough as nails and juggernaught staying alive shouldn't be an issue.
If no one thinks it will work, all the better, I enjoy using underdog builds that are just cool as hell. :Thumbs Up:
@ Malkishua, you're assuming too much. I've played Diablo for 12 years and know the pace. But we both can't make an educated guess on how long inferno mobs will take to kill.
Also with the proper cycling of cooldowns, you will be waiting max 30 seconds between each ability. With charge, revenge, tough as nails and juggernaught staying alive shouldn't be an issue.
If no one thinks it will work, all the better, I enjoy using underdog builds that are just cool as hell. :Thumbs Up:
Its still not about the time it takes to kill each pack. I still get to use that skill ONLY ONCE PER 2 MINUTES! even if its just once per battle, it doesn't matter its still long as hell. and I don't think it justifies it. Should be 1 minute, not two! and 1 minute is still A LOT in my eyes.
@ Malkishua, you're assuming too much. I've played Diablo for 12 years and know the pace. But we both can't make an educated guess on how long inferno mobs will take to kill.
Also with the proper cycling of cooldowns, you will be waiting max 30 seconds between each ability. With charge, revenge, tough as nails and juggernaught staying alive shouldn't be an issue.
If no one thinks it will work, all the better, I enjoy using underdog builds that are just cool as hell. :Thumbs Up:
Its still not about the time it takes to kill each pack. I still get to use that skill ONLY ONCE PER 2 MINUTES! even if its just once per battle, it doesn't matter its still long as hell. and I don't think it justifies it. Should be 1 minute, not two! and 1 minute is still A LOT in my eyes.
Ill break it down for you then.
120s - 30s from boon = 90s
Runed EQ = 75s cooldown
CoTA = 75s cooldown after expiration of the summons (assuming they don't die)
WoTB = 75s cooldown after its expiration
Cycle these properly between packs and you will have a high chance at each new *KEY WORD* DANGEROUS pack you come across has something to deal with it.
Once again, this build is not for everyone, but to dismiss its viability is pure nonsense.
No offense, but I don't think you quite adequately grasp this cooldown concept. This is a common argument I see often from people who have not even thought about the situation beyond the surface.
This is not WoW. 120 second cooldown does not mean you will be fighting for 120 seconds before it is up again. There are so many circumstances where two minutes have passed and little has happened. ACTUAL up-time of this ability will be much, much higher than 1/8th-1/6th because your time spent fighting is not 100% of the time. Even if you are surrounded by mobs you will want to position yourself a certain way. I imagine this will become increasingly important for Inferno.
If you have seriously thought about this, you would have factored in: the time you spend running around (whether during combat or simply to get to the next mob/place) the time you spend going back to town after having a full inventory, 'mini breaks' (washroom), practically any and every time you spend doing something other than attacking. Which amounts to a decent length of time. A two minute cooldown really will not feel the same way it does in WoW. On that front, I am certain that this perspective will hold true for me and many other individuals.
As per the "spammy versus cooldown" models. This game has changed because the player base has changed. It is no longer fun for the majority of people playing video games to spam one or two spells over and over. People also want things that are incredibly strong. There are many psychological aspects at play here that Blizzard has always utilized well in their video games. To use conjectural phrases like "silly" to refer to someone else's argument and opinion is ironic. Please avoid little ad hominem arguments as they only reveal that the person making them is often subject to the same criticism they are making of another.
Diablo 3 will define the Diablo franchise. This is because it will become so wide spread and popular as to overshadow its predecessors. The game needs to have spam spells and cooldown spells. They are trying to balance this game around a fun and interesting decision making process along with balance against monsters and for the PVP system they plan to implement in the future. It would be difficult to balance a Diablo 3 PVP system if you have your strongest hitting abilities available on short cooldowns.
I would implore more posters to try to have thought through their problems with the game, instead of reiterating and regurgitating someone else's thoughtless rant about a particular subject matter.
Agreed Discontinued and +1 on the quality post. Here is a copy paste that i posted :
Coodlowns on all abilities: Charge:10s and reduced for every enemy hit by 2s. WoTB: 90 s(15s Duration) CoTA: 90s (15s Duration) Earthquake: 75s
Cycling these in:
-Wild Hypothetical champion pack appears! - Use CoTA, once expired,2 abilities up, 75s cooldown remaining. - 5 second travel time to next pack (hypothetical, it could be more or less depending on breaking objects / looting) - Use Earthquake, kill mobs (lets just say 8 second fight for the duration of EQ). - 5 second travel time to next pack (hypothetical, it could be more or less depending on breaking objects / looting) - Current cooldowns: CoTA: 58s EQ: 58s -Wild Hypothetical champion pack appears! - WoTB popped kill pack, 15 second duration done. -Cooldowns: WOTB: 75s CoTA: 43s EQ: 43s
This is under the assumption of instant pack to pack travel and fighting with no breaking of urns / objects for looting, picking up loot, running distance and a bunch of other variables like increased time to kill certain packs because of annoying mods. It also is assuming that you will have to use all of these cooldowns as soon as they are available which is not the case at all.
This is the build I was using for all 2minute cooldowns.
Punish on Bash boosts all 2 minute cooldowns by 18% damage which is actually ridiculous.
Your build is decent however I would change the rune on CoTA to The Council Rises. I truly believe it's the be all end all of COTA runes.
I personally take Revenge with Provocation in every build I do no matter what. It's just TOO good.
I like Furious charge with Merciless Assault better than leap because it has a much lower cooldown for the same fury generation with much higher damage. (Assuming you hit multiple enemies but this is where skill comes in )
I chose Arreat's Wail as my ultimate "Oh Sh-" button for the knockback and huge damage, but this rune is ultimately down to play style preference. Since you are HC though, this might even be a better choice.
This is the build I was using for all 2minute cooldowns.
Punish on Bash boosts all 2 minute cooldowns by 18% damage which is actually ridiculous.
Your build is decent however I would change the rune on CoTA to The Council Rises. I truly believe it's the be all end all of COTA runes.
Snipped just for that part =D I see how The Council Rises rune for cota would be nice, but I really don't think it's the best rune choice. This is all speculation atm of course, but IMO I don't think they will die in 15 seconds, at least not all of them. IF that is true then all the rune is doing is giving them a 6% bonus to damage, which isn't very much at all. If anything I'd pick one of the runes that affects one of them, the least damage still giving one of them 180% frontal AOE damage off of your weapon.
This is the build I was using for all 2minute cooldowns.
Punish on Bash boosts all 2 minute cooldowns by 18% damage which is actually ridiculous.
Your build is decent however I would change the rune on CoTA to The Council Rises. I truly believe it's the be all end all of COTA runes.
Snipped just for that part =D I see how The Council Rises rune for cota would be nice, but I really don't think it's the best rune choice. This is all speculation atm of course, but IMO I don't think they will die in 15 seconds, at least not all of them. IF that is true then all the rune is doing is giving them a 6% bonus to damage, which isn't very much at all. If anything I'd pick one of the runes that affects one of them, the least damage still giving one of them 180% frontal AOE damage off of your weapon.
Just my opinion, man =D
In inferno and hell I have faith that they will die extremely fast if focused. Speculation as always, but it's a safe bet. If our character has a high chance of dieing (read: You will die, a lot.) then I'm assuming the same goes for the poor Ancients. I also like the added damage to each one as I mentioned before in case 1 dies, individual possible damage is lost.
It's more about gambling than anything else, this rune is the safest of them all and thats the way I like to play. I humbly respect your opinion!
http://us.battle.net...STjP!VTS!bcZbaa This is the build I was using for all 2minute cooldowns. Punish on Bash boosts all 2 minute cooldowns by 18% damage which is actually ridiculous. Your build is decent however I would change the rune on CoTA to The Council Rises. I truly believe it's the be all end all of COTA runes.
Snipped just for that part =D I see how The Council Rises rune for cota would be nice, but I really don't think it's the best rune choice. This is all speculation atm of course, but IMO I don't think they will die in 15 seconds, at least not all of them. IF that is true then all the rune is doing is giving them a 6% bonus to damage, which isn't very much at all. If anything I'd pick one of the runes that affects one of them, the least damage still giving one of them 180% frontal AOE damage off of your weapon. Just my opinion, man =D
In inferno and hell I have faith that they will die extremely fast if focused. Speculation as always, but it's a safe bet. If our character has a high chance of dieing (read: You will die, a lot.) then I'm assuming the same goes for the poor Ancients. I also like the added damage to each one as I mentioned before in case 1 dies, individual possible damage is lost. It's more about gambling than anything else, this rune is the safest of them all and thats the way I like to play. I humbly respect your opinion!
You guys keep missing the point :/..
Yet again - You're theory crafting and all but the point was you will STILL not be able to use it more then once per fight. EVVENNN if you cycle between battles, you will have one skill per fight, AND TWO SKILLS STILL RECHARGING. I don't feel like seeing two skills on my bar that I won't be able to use for a long time. I want to charge, pop EQ, CoTA ANNNND WoTB, because they are AWESOME. Not because I want to be ultra mega super duper strong and deal 34085203 damage in 1 second.
My point was I wish these were 45s cd spells, so I can use them much more frequently as NORMAL SKILLS, since we have more then enough "OH SHIAT" spells.
For example, instead of "Revenge" or "Rend" as AOE, I wish I had EQ. Because its COOL. I don't care about the damn damage I want to be a BADASS BARBARIAN and to feel amazing on every single pack when I pop everything. Regardless if its weak.
In the most recent video of the Barb it says "The barb generates Fury when he gives ANDDDD receives damage" I don't have the beta so I'm just going off Blizzards quote
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I am not talking about the games in the year 2012 or anything past 2002, it is obvious why these systems are impleminted NOW, in the current time and date. I never once complained about a cool down, maybe you imagined it but it did not happen. I simply said diablo is spam and WoW is cooldowns. Is that negative at all? No it is not. I then proved to the other poster that diablo is in fact spam considering the last games over the current. The current is in beta form and not out yet so it cannot define what diablo is. You bought all of your own hostility into it, as well as name calling.
Personnaly, I think long cooldown abilities (even if 2min is not that long imo) is a part of a distinct category of abilities. Adding one or many to your skills slots will bring pros and cons to your character, it all depends on the kind of player you are:
If you prefer your character to feel like you are at your best all the time, you probably won't pick one of these abilities.
But if you prefer to feel a little bit weaker most of the time but able to pop a life-saver ability against a champion pack that would wreck you, you will probably take at least 1 of those skills.
To sum it up, these skills are there because some people will like to have them the way they are, if you don't pick another skill. I personnaly will have earthquake on my bar, and will definatly try a full bul-kathos 2min cd skills.
Thanks.
You will find yourself waiting between packs. you'll see. even if you try to juggle between them, its still more then one minute for each skill until its up again, and the game has a very high pace.
I see the purpose. I just think it can be of the same purpose but with a LOWER COOLDOWN. two minutes is HARSH man. TOO harsh for skills so epic. ONE minute seems fair, 45 seconds with runes. id rather them do 40% weap damage and use them more often then have ultra mega skills once per hour.
One minute is still a lot to justify an "OH SHIT" button. This isn't an MMO, this is a fast paced game where you want to spam and kill stuff as much and as fast as possible rather then sitting around and waiting for CD's to go.
Cooldown starts when you activate it. so yes, its 25 seconds "technically".
Assuming that each ancient only attacks once every 2 seconds (.5 APS), that's still 2250% weapon damage over 15 seconds, 2/3 of which is aoe (WW and cleave).
That is also with a VERY conservative attack rate, and completely discounts their abilities, not to mention the fact that they decrease the damage you'll be taking.
at 1 APS, we're at 4500%, which i'm pretty sure is the single most damaging ability in the game. I had originally thought that 1 APS from the ancients would be their attack rate, but that 4500% looks so large that i can't imagine they'll let them attack that fast. Mystic ally would do that damage in a little less than the course of the whole cooldown, also assuming 1 APS, and as far as i'm aware isn't AOE. Raven companion would do less.
I don't care if it does 10000000000% weapon damage over 20 seconds. I HATE LONG COOLDOWNS, and as said above, ITS NOT APPEALING to me, And I don't feel like taking an ability that I can use only once every two minutes! even "OH SHIT" buttons aren't supposed to be that long. "Ignore Pain" is an OH SHIT button and its every 30 seconds. Take serenity, the ULTIMATE oh shit button. Immune to EVERYTHING, and has 20 second CD! I'm not trying to compare because the skills are completely different, but just saying this to remove the ridicules argument that an "OH SHIT" button needs to have a long cooldown.
Also with the proper cycling of cooldowns, you will be waiting max 30 seconds between each ability. With charge, revenge, tough as nails and juggernaught staying alive shouldn't be an issue.
If no one thinks it will work, all the better, I enjoy using underdog builds that are just cool as hell. :Thumbs Up:
Its still not about the time it takes to kill each pack. I still get to use that skill ONLY ONCE PER 2 MINUTES! even if its just once per battle, it doesn't matter its still long as hell. and I don't think it justifies it. Should be 1 minute, not two! and 1 minute is still A LOT in my eyes.
Ill break it down for you then.
120s - 30s from boon = 90s
Runed EQ = 75s cooldown
CoTA = 75s cooldown after expiration of the summons (assuming they don't die)
WoTB = 75s cooldown after its expiration
Cycle these properly between packs and you will have a high chance at each new *KEY WORD* DANGEROUS pack you come across has something to deal with it.
Once again, this build is not for everyone, but to dismiss its viability is pure nonsense.
This is not WoW. 120 second cooldown does not mean you will be fighting for 120 seconds before it is up again. There are so many circumstances where two minutes have passed and little has happened. ACTUAL up-time of this ability will be much, much higher than 1/8th-1/6th because your time spent fighting is not 100% of the time. Even if you are surrounded by mobs you will want to position yourself a certain way. I imagine this will become increasingly important for Inferno.
If you have seriously thought about this, you would have factored in: the time you spend running around (whether during combat or simply to get to the next mob/place) the time you spend going back to town after having a full inventory, 'mini breaks' (washroom), practically any and every time you spend doing something other than attacking. Which amounts to a decent length of time. A two minute cooldown really will not feel the same way it does in WoW. On that front, I am certain that this perspective will hold true for me and many other individuals.
As per the "spammy versus cooldown" models. This game has changed because the player base has changed. It is no longer fun for the majority of people playing video games to spam one or two spells over and over. People also want things that are incredibly strong. There are many psychological aspects at play here that Blizzard has always utilized well in their video games. To use conjectural phrases like "silly" to refer to someone else's argument and opinion is ironic. Please avoid little ad hominem arguments as they only reveal that the person making them is often subject to the same criticism they are making of another.
Diablo 3 will define the Diablo franchise. This is because it will become so wide spread and popular as to overshadow its predecessors. The game needs to have spam spells and cooldown spells. They are trying to balance this game around a fun and interesting decision making process along with balance against monsters and for the PVP system they plan to implement in the future. It would be difficult to balance a Diablo 3 PVP system if you have your strongest hitting abilities available on short cooldowns.
I would implore more posters to try to have thought through their problems with the game, instead of reiterating and regurgitating someone else's thoughtless rant about a particular subject matter.
Coodlowns on all abilities:
Charge:10s and reduced for every enemy hit by 2s.
WoTB: 90 s(15s Duration)
CoTA: 90s (15s Duration)
Earthquake: 75s
Cycling these in:
-Wild Hypothetical champion pack appears!
- Use CoTA, once expired,2 abilities up, 75s cooldown remaining.
- 5 second travel time to next pack (hypothetical, it could be more or less depending on breaking objects / looting)
- Use Earthquake, kill mobs (lets just say 8 second fight for the duration of EQ).
- 5 second travel time to next pack (hypothetical, it could be more or less depending on breaking objects / looting)
- Current cooldowns: CoTA: 58s EQ: 58s
-Wild Hypothetical champion pack appears!
- WoTB popped kill pack, 15 second duration done.
-Cooldowns: WOTB: 75s CoTA: 43s EQ: 43s
This is under the assumption of instant pack to pack travel and fighting with no breaking of urns / objects for looting, picking up loot, running distance and a bunch of other variables like increased time to kill certain packs because of annoying mods. It also is assuming that you will have to use all of these cooldowns as soon as they are available which is not the case at all.
This is the build I was using for all 2minute cooldowns.
Punish on Bash boosts all 2 minute cooldowns by 18% damage which is actually ridiculous.
Your build is decent however I would change the rune on CoTA to The Council Rises. I truly believe it's the be all end all of COTA runes.
I personally take Revenge with Provocation in every build I do no matter what. It's just TOO good.
I like Furious charge with Merciless Assault better than leap because it has a much lower cooldown for the same fury generation with much higher damage. (Assuming you hit multiple enemies but this is where skill comes in )
I chose Arreat's Wail as my ultimate "Oh Sh-" button for the knockback and huge damage, but this rune is ultimately down to play style preference. Since you are HC though, this might even be a better choice.
Snipped just for that part =D I see how The Council Rises rune for cota would be nice, but I really don't think it's the best rune choice. This is all speculation atm of course, but IMO I don't think they will die in 15 seconds, at least not all of them. IF that is true then all the rune is doing is giving them a 6% bonus to damage, which isn't very much at all. If anything I'd pick one of the runes that affects one of them, the least damage still giving one of them 180% frontal AOE damage off of your weapon.
Just my opinion, man =D
In inferno and hell I have faith that they will die extremely fast if focused. Speculation as always, but it's a safe bet. If our character has a high chance of dieing (read: You will die, a lot.) then I'm assuming the same goes for the poor Ancients. I also like the added damage to each one as I mentioned before in case 1 dies, individual possible damage is lost.
It's more about gambling than anything else, this rune is the safest of them all and thats the way I like to play. I humbly respect your opinion!
You guys keep missing the point :/..
Yet again - You're theory crafting and all but the point was you will STILL not be able to use it more then once per fight. EVVENNN if you cycle between battles, you will have one skill per fight, AND TWO SKILLS STILL RECHARGING. I don't feel like seeing two skills on my bar that I won't be able to use for a long time. I want to charge, pop EQ, CoTA ANNNND WoTB, because they are AWESOME. Not because I want to be ultra mega super duper strong and deal 34085203 damage in 1 second.
My point was I wish these were 45s cd spells, so I can use them much more frequently as NORMAL SKILLS, since we have more then enough "OH SHIAT" spells.
For example, instead of "Revenge" or "Rend" as AOE, I wish I had EQ. Because its COOL. I don't care about the damn damage I want to be a BADASS BARBARIAN and to feel amazing on every single pack when I pop everything. Regardless if its weak.
Now did I make myself clear?
Feel + Fun >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damage