I really hate that enchanting becomes more expensive every time you use it and it feels really stupid to be tacked onto an RNG system. As a Monk I go for one specific resistance (Arcane in my case) in order to benefit from their passive One with Everything. Because Arcane resistance also rolls with every other resistance and usually 5+ other things, it can take a lot of rolls to get the correct thing sometimes. God help people who continue rolling after that to get a better roll on that stat.
I am fine with each roll costing the crafting materials each time, as they remain constant. However the idea that if I get screwed over by RNG, suddenly this amazing item that only has one bad stat can become wasted, simply because I cannot afford to enchant it again because the gold burden has become so high. Why does Blizzard not simply increase the base gold cost of enchanting and remove this stupid gold increase, which essentially puts a limit on RNG, something the player has no control over?
Quote from Shapookya»
if gold costs wouldn't change, it wouldn't have an effective cost, because those mats drop in masses right now.
There wouldn't be a point in materials and gold, if you always had enough of it, would it? Their whole design philosophy is, that you hit a shortage and have to make decisions and not just reroll as much as you want, because the costs are so low.
I get that you shouldn't always have enough gold, and that it should require meaningful choices. But the point is putting an infinitely increasing system on RNG, something the player cannot control in any way, is stupid. As I said, I would be fine if removing the increasing costs meant they made the base cost more expensive. I'd be ok with 200K+ per enchant if that was what they wanted, but it just keeps stacking up forever so if RNG messes you up, the amazing item you had suddenly becomes unusable because the cost of another roll is astronomical.
veiled crystal materials cost more as you reroll more. so its not constant. i had a ring that i rerolled like 40 times and veiled crystals costed 16 each time instead of the original 4 or so.
At first it seemed to make sense to increase the cost as to prevent people from spamming it like maniacs (which we still do). But after thinking about it: Enchanting your item multiple times means you already got unlucky, so it's actually strange to make the bad luck even worse by increasing the cost.
On the other hand, if the cost is to cheap I would spam enchant on my 49% CHD weapon hoping to get 50%.
i think its more of a wall not for RNG luck, but a wall for whether you really want to upgrade that extra few % to make it a perfect roll. this whole game is RNG though so i mean, nothing really to complain about playing it.
1. It acts as a gold sink for players that acquire large amounts of gold.
2. It acts as an artificial limit on how often you can reroll an item. At some point, it become too expensive to reroll, so you are better off farming for another drop to start rerolling from scratch. This adds longevity to the game for people who like to max out their characters.
Its supposed to be a way to turn something you would NEVER use into something that you CAN use.
I dont think the system was made to take your garbage item and turn it into BiS. Can that happen? Yes but its an alternative to just farming more of the same item.
Far too many people seem to not understand what Diablo is all about. That chance you find/create or craft something awesome. Until then you just use what you have and crave/fiend/farm ur ass off to get that perfect item. That IS the end game currently.
If you rolled every item in BiS in a few tries you would be standing there complaining there is nothing to do and stop playing all together.
But the point is putting an infinitely increasing system on RNG, something the player cannot control in any way, is stupid. As I said, I would be fine if removing the increasing costs meant they made the base cost more expensive. I'd be ok with 200K+ per enchant if that was what they wanted, but it just keeps stacking up forever so if RNG messes you up, the amazing item you had suddenly becomes unusable because the cost of another roll is astronomical.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's stupid.
The increasing cost on enchanting acts as a flexible limit to the number of times you can enchant an item. As others have said, if there was no cap the amount of times you could enchant, it'd just be a matter of time before you got exactly what you wanted. Rather than set some arbitrary number of times, the increasing price means players can spend as little or as much as they want. It's a great system.
so if RNG messes you up, the amazing item you had suddenly becomes unusable because the cost of another roll is astronomical.
If your item needs enchanting, it's not amazing. It's potentially amazing, if you get the enchant you want, and it's appropriate that there's a possibility you won't get it because it becomes to expensive. Enchanting is only there to provide you a chance to correct an undesired affix. You're not entitled to it.
The cap makes sense to prevent spamming towards BiS..People should settle for 46% CHD or 9,5% crit chance instead of the max.
Looking at weapons this changes a bit, however. A weapon without a socket is completely useless. Should you obtain an amazing weapon without socket you have no choice but to spam enchant untill you get the socket (well, beside just salvaging it).
The real issue is that certain slots are worthless without x stat. Sockets on weapons, % skill damage or % element damage on other slots. When I get a legendary it almost never has these stats on it. For legendaries, you're already capped at spam rerolling because of the legendary mat, it shouldn't add even more insult to injury to go up so quickly in gold cost as well. I currently have a weapon and a mojo sitting in the stash because each won't roll stat or zombie charger dmg. They're nearing the 1M mark where I'll probably just give up and DE them. Thanks RNG.
I like the fact that I'm excited even when a crappy legendary drops now because it means I have another shot to make my almost useable items useful... but pretty soon I'm going to hit the point where it's too much gold to keep chasing and that's not fun.
but pretty soon I'm going to hit the point where it's too much gold to keep chasing and that's not fun.
That's exactly the point.
You are making a choice. You have the ability to turn something that's imperfect into something that's mostly-perfect. For that, the price is steep... as it should be. Where you set the cutoff as to how much materials sunk into an item in chase of that pursuit is up to you. If the cost is frustrating you then, clearly, you've pressed the "enchant" button a few too many times, huh?
No, I'm changing something that is unusable into something that is usable. The current system creates situations where there are pieces of loot that are unusable without a certain affix (socket or % dmg). We aren't talking about making near perfect items, we're talking about making items worth using.
The current system is perfect for rares. Legendary items are already limited pretty severely on the legendary mat so there's no need to also add a near impossible amount of gold to it as well. At the very least, legionaries should be capped at 1M.
The enchanting system is fine, and is IMO a nice bit of game design... weapon sockets, not so much. I was surprised when they left things as-is for RoS, but I'm still hopeful that they'll either nerf the hell out of emeralds or just cave in and give us a suitably expensive 'socket this' option.
So the other day - I crafted a great Aughild's Rule chest. Str, Vit, AR, Life% - all with high rolls. It lacked sockets though so I decided to reroll it. 30 rerolls later... 30 forgotten souls later..... and at that stage it was costing me 1.5M a reroll, I finally got my 3 sockets.
From now on no matter what the item is, i always do the cheap enchant bug.
1. Have a fresh item you've never rerolled before
2. Keep in mind the ideal stat you want i.e. 3 sockets, 90%+ crit dmg, 6% atk spd, etc
3. Go reroll it and if you don't get your ideal stat - hit alt + F4 and force quit Diablo 3
4. Log back in and voila - you can repeat this and reroll an item as many times as you want without the crafting cost going up.
Note: this still consumes mats every time but could potentially save you a lot of gold in the long run, especially when rerolling legendaries.
Both sides of the argument have raised good points, but I want to reiterate a point made by a few others in this thread. This isn't about getting BiS enchants, though if the price stops stacking this is a side effect of it, but they are still gated by Forgotten Souls. This is about great items missing a cruical affix, such as a weapon socket, +Elemental% damage for element focused builds, whatever is essential to your class and build. If you get unlucky these can no longer become reasonable to roll for because the gold burden is so damn high and you essentially have to throw the item out. Once again, it's not about rolling 5.5% attack speed 50 times into 6% attack speed, it is about seeing attack speed at all in the first place.
The current system is perfect for rares. Legendary items are already limited pretty severely on the legendary mat so there's no need to also add a near impossible amount of gold to it as well. At the very least, legionaries should be capped at 1M.
I disagree completely. The system forces you to make a choice between going ape-shit rerolling the same item 10923829013829013829013829013829013821903821390281309821039281390213 quadrillion times or moving on.
It should be patently obvious they don't want people so focused on single items and that enchanting wasn't meant to be a "if you dump X resources into this system you will get your desired roll out of it" mechanic.
You may not get what you want from enchanting before it becomes cost-prohibitive. Whoop dee fucking doo. Works pretty well if you ask me.
1. It acts as a gold sink for players that acquire large amounts of gold.
2. It acts as an artificial limit on how often you can reroll an item. At some point, it become too expensive to reroll, so you are better off farming for another drop to start rerolling from scratch. This adds longevity to the game for people who like to max out their characters.
This.
It was even confirmed by Don Vu in the playtest session that the enchanting costs are the gold sink in RoS:
I am fine with each roll costing the crafting materials each time, as they remain constant. However the idea that if I get screwed over by RNG, suddenly this amazing item that only has one bad stat can become wasted, simply because I cannot afford to enchant it again because the gold burden has become so high. Why does Blizzard not simply increase the base gold cost of enchanting and remove this stupid gold increase, which essentially puts a limit on RNG, something the player has no control over?
if gold costs wouldn't change, it wouldn't have an effective cost, because those mats drop in masses right now.
There wouldn't be a point in materials and gold, if you always had enough of it, would it? Their whole design philosophy is, that you hit a shortage and have to make decisions and not just reroll as much as you want, because the costs are so low.
I get that you shouldn't always have enough gold, and that it should require meaningful choices. But the point is putting an infinitely increasing system on RNG, something the player cannot control in any way, is stupid. As I said, I would be fine if removing the increasing costs meant they made the base cost more expensive. I'd be ok with 200K+ per enchant if that was what they wanted, but it just keeps stacking up forever so if RNG messes you up, the amazing item you had suddenly becomes unusable because the cost of another roll is astronomical.
On the other hand, if the cost is to cheap I would spam enchant on my 49% CHD weapon hoping to get 50%.
1. It acts as a gold sink for players that acquire large amounts of gold.
2. It acts as an artificial limit on how often you can reroll an item. At some point, it become too expensive to reroll, so you are better off farming for another drop to start rerolling from scratch. This adds longevity to the game for people who like to max out their characters.
I dont think the system was made to take your garbage item and turn it into BiS. Can that happen? Yes but its an alternative to just farming more of the same item.
Far too many people seem to not understand what Diablo is all about. That chance you find/create or craft something awesome. Until then you just use what you have and crave/fiend/farm ur ass off to get that perfect item. That IS the end game currently.
If you rolled every item in BiS in a few tries you would be standing there complaining there is nothing to do and stop playing all together.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's stupid.
The increasing cost on enchanting acts as a flexible limit to the number of times you can enchant an item. As others have said, if there was no cap the amount of times you could enchant, it'd just be a matter of time before you got exactly what you wanted. Rather than set some arbitrary number of times, the increasing price means players can spend as little or as much as they want. It's a great system.
If your item needs enchanting, it's not amazing. It's potentially amazing, if you get the enchant you want, and it's appropriate that there's a possibility you won't get it because it becomes to expensive. Enchanting is only there to provide you a chance to correct an undesired affix. You're not entitled to it.
Looking at weapons this changes a bit, however. A weapon without a socket is completely useless. Should you obtain an amazing weapon without socket you have no choice but to spam enchant untill you get the socket (well, beside just salvaging it).
I like the fact that I'm excited even when a crappy legendary drops now because it means I have another shot to make my almost useable items useful... but pretty soon I'm going to hit the point where it's too much gold to keep chasing and that's not fun.
You are making a choice. You have the ability to turn something that's imperfect into something that's mostly-perfect. For that, the price is steep... as it should be. Where you set the cutoff as to how much materials sunk into an item in chase of that pursuit is up to you. If the cost is frustrating you then, clearly, you've pressed the "enchant" button a few too many times, huh?
The current system is perfect for rares. Legendary items are already limited pretty severely on the legendary mat so there's no need to also add a near impossible amount of gold to it as well. At the very least, legionaries should be capped at 1M.
From now on no matter what the item is, i always do the cheap enchant bug.
1. Have a fresh item you've never rerolled before
2. Keep in mind the ideal stat you want i.e. 3 sockets, 90%+ crit dmg, 6% atk spd, etc
3. Go reroll it and if you don't get your ideal stat - hit alt + F4 and force quit Diablo 3
4. Log back in and voila - you can repeat this and reroll an item as many times as you want without the crafting cost going up.
Note: this still consumes mats every time but could potentially save you a lot of gold in the long run, especially when rerolling legendaries.
It should be patently obvious they don't want people so focused on single items and that enchanting wasn't meant to be a "if you dump X resources into this system you will get your desired roll out of it" mechanic.
You may not get what you want from enchanting before it becomes cost-prohibitive. Whoop dee fucking doo. Works pretty well if you ask me.
It was even confirmed by Don Vu in the playtest session that the enchanting costs are the gold sink in RoS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOlWo6Up_ic