I remember seeing a thread here about a week ago or something about how they fixed a bug where 2handed weapons would roll 1 handed weapons damage. But can someone tell me what damage a unique 2h weapon should roll ? I found this blackguard yesterday and it's damage is 1,324. I tried to use it instead of my 2 1 handed weapon (1165 and 1063) and I lose a crap load of damage using the new 2 handed.
All have sockets and I used the same emeralds in them I'm not sure how it affects the criticals but regardless, with or without crits, shouldn't 2 handed weapons be able to do just as much damage as 2 one handed weapons ? I lose like 38k damage with the blackguard, which is too bad because I really like it
What Vedre said. The issue is simply that the new scaling system (and the removal of level 61-63 items from the level 60 loot table) caused this problem, and they don't want to touch it before RoS.
Long story short, it is fixed. You can see this clear as day if you look at level 70 items. 2Hs are significantly stronger than one-handers, giving a great deal more stats and dps. Unfortunately, the level 60 weapons are all, noticeably, weaker.
Dual wielding is, at level 60, brokenly powerful. Either dual wielding the fastest daggers imagineable with high rubies in it or tossing 2 Emeralds in to make you crit for as much as possible, two weapon gems are just too powerful. Alternatively, if you look at Offhands(wizard, witch doctor) their damage ranges at level 70 aren't as high as they were at level 60 before 2.0.
One-handers got toned down, A LOT. Two-handers got noticeably stronger, as well. At level 60 you won't see the difference and pre-2.0 weapons are just so much better. Level 70? They are much, much closer.
What Vedre said. The issue is simply that the new scaling system (and the removal of level 61-63 items from the level 60 loot table) caused this problem, and they don't want to touch it before RoS.
"That said, this issue is unique to the transition time between patch 2.0.1 and Reaper of Souls. No one should experience this when playing the expansion -"
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
"In order to get a completely full picture of this situation, we can re-evaluate both where potential changes may need to be made and what the best, most informed way is to make them after we can observe the 1-70 experience in a live environment."
They will evaluate this once RoS is live. Nowhere in this post does it indicate that you'll be stuck with this "forever".
Notice the significantly higher damage range on the 2h weapon.
In the example you gave here, the damage range for the 2 hander is still much too low. This is not fixed. Even if you rolled the perfect stat on that two hander, rolling 2 perfect stat 1 handers would give you nearly a 30% damage increase. That is exactly what the issue is at level 60 as well. Hopefully this gets fixed soon. I really don't understand why 2 handers have to be inherently slow. They should be able to roll up to 1.40 at least. Seems very weird that a Wizard with a 2 handed staff would be attacking so slow. I hope these things are addressed, because the artwork on some of the 2 handers is amazing, but will never be used if they are too weak, and/or boring to use.
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
I don't know. But if yes, what is your point? That Blizzard should cater to your needs for an indefinite time just because you paid them 40$ almost 2 years ago? There is a point where simply you are required to either move on (buy the expansion) or simply drop the game.
In all fairness, despite 2 major loot overhauls and 2 years time, 2-handers are still "broken"....or, essentially ineffective toward end-game gearing. People that bought the original game have never had the full arsenal of 2-handers at their disposal. i.e. Part of the game itself is still incomplete. i.e. They owe it to their customers to right whats been wrong since day 1 launch.
After the PR issues Blizz has received forabysmalloot in D3, leaving this 2-hander issue lingering doesn't seem to be the best idea.
2h weapons work wonders with builds that don't use IAS (instant cast spells + cooldown reduction). A Barbarian using this build (just an example):LINK will do much higher effective DPS when using a 2h weapon with a high damage range when compared to a DW Barbarian despite the DW Barb will most certainly have higher sheet DPS.
2h weapons also work wonders (from a resource standpoint) for channeled abilities.
It's much easier to make a build that "ignores" resources and just channels a single damage spell, without using primaries (which is a big DPS increase in most cases) if you're using a 2h weapon. The difference in channeling cost on Ray of Frost with 1.00 APS versus 1.40 APS is 16 APS versus 22.4 APS. Meaning you need 6.5 more AP/sec regeneration to infinitely channel Ray of Frost with a 1.40 APS weapon compared to a 1.00 APS weapon.
That is not some ancillary benefit. Not using a primary is a big deal in terms of effective DPS and it's something your sheet DPS doesn't even hint at.
EDIT
Since the most recent patch most of the 2h weapons I'm finding are 900+ DPS whereas most of the 1h weapons are 700+ DPS. I don't think the situation is nearly as grave as some "BLIZZ DIDN'T LISTEN TO MY BETA FEEDBACK" people want to make it.
2h weapons work wonders with builds that don't use IAS (instant cast spells + cooldown reduction). A Barbarian using this build (just an example):LINK will do much higher effective DPS when using a 2h weapon with a high damage range when compared to a DW Barbarian despite the DW Barb will most certainly have higher sheet DPS.
2h weapons also work wonders (from a resource standpoint) for channeled abilities.
It's much easier to make a build that "ignores" resources and just channels a single damage spell, without using primaries (which is a big DPS increase in most cases) if you're using a 2h weapon. The difference in channeling cost on Ray of Frost with 1.00 APS versus 1.40 APS is 16 APS versus 22.4 APS. Meaning you need 6.5 more AP/sec regeneration to infinitely channel Ray of Frost with a 1.40 APS weapon compared to a 1.00 APS weapon.
That is not some ancillary benefit. Not using a primary is a big deal in terms of effective DPS and it's something your sheet DPS doesn't even hint at.
EDIT
Since the most recent patch most of the 2h weapons I'm finding are 900+ DPS whereas most of the 1h weapons are 700+ DPS. I don't think the situation is nearly as grave as some "BLIZZ DIDN'T LISTEN TO MY BETA FEEDBACK" people want to make it.
2 hand Legendaries do not match up at all sensibly with their 1 hand counterparts, in terms of pure DPS.
That is most definitely a problem and one that should not persist into RoS. They need to put these silly issues of "broken" itemization to rest.
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
I don't know. But if yes, what is your point? That Blizzard should cater to your needs for an indefinite time just because you paid them 40$ almost 2 years ago? There is a point where simply you are required to either move on (buy the expansion) or simply drop the game.
That is the most stupid thing I have heard in a while. You think it's alright to force people to pay money to enjoy properly something they bought in the past ? What kind of dumbass logic is that, are you a corporate executive or something ?
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
I don't know. But if yes, what is your point? That Blizzard should cater to your needs for an indefinite time just because you paid them 40$ almost 2 years ago? There is a point where simply you are required to either move on (buy the expansion) or simply drop the game.
The problem is that as things currently stand, Loot 2.0 represents a downgrade for 2H users not planning to buy RoS. That's a genuine issue. Blizzard has been generous with 2.0. They could have just put D3 1.x out to pasture and put everything into RoS, so I'm not going to huff and puff about how evil they are... but for all the good stuff that vanilla players are getting, D3 is a game about killing monsters. Dramatically and permanently lowering the DPS ceiling for non-RoS players (particularly when the fix is so straightforward) is something Blizzard needs to address. Even though it's just a side-effect of a re-worked loot system, nerfing vanilla players just prior to the release of an expansion isn't a good look.
The problem is that as things currently stand, Loot 2.0 represents a downgrade for 2H users not planning to buy RoS. That's a genuine issue. Blizzard has been generous with 2.0. They could have just put D3 1.x out to pasture and put everything into RoS, so I'm not going to huff and puff about how evil they are... but for all the good stuff that vanilla players are getting, D3 is a game about killing monsters. Dramatically and permanently lowering the DPS ceiling for non-RoS players (particularly when the fix is so straightforward) is something Blizzard needs to address. Even though it's just a side-effect of a re-worked loot system, nerfing vanilla players just prior to the release of an expansion isn't a good look.
Absolutely...
But everyone has to realize that not only do "people who aren't buying RoS" represent a rather small minority of Diablo 3 players at this point, but they also represent no revenue.
Blizzard's due diligence for the next few months and for the preview 4-5 months is to ensure that RoS happens and is as good as it can be. They can't be diverting resources to fix 2hers for a few thousand players. That's outright neglectful. They, literally, have millions of people with $40 in hand saying "take my money and give me a good product." It is regrettable that they cannot do both, but with just a bit of rational thinking it's obvious why this issue is on the back burner.
Hell, I'm sure Blizzard is devoting quite a lot of resources to working with AT&T to get this stupid latency thing fixed otherwise RoS launch is going to be marred just like vanilla launch was. Personally, I think it's much more important that they get the lag ironed out instead of fixing 2hers at level 60. Why? Because one impacts millions and millions of paying (and non-paying) customers whereas the other impacts people who specifically are NOT paying them. Seems like common sense to give a higher level of service to people who are re-investing in your product, doesn't it? If I were a business owner that's exactly what I'd do.
It's just like a F2P game in that sense... you spend more and you get more in-game stuff... you spend less and you get less. Despite being a different business model the end result is the same. And, at this point, I think it would be naive to argue that making sure RoS launch goes as smoothly as possible isn't the #1 priority for the Diablo team. If it's not their #1 priority then there is something severely wrong with their prioritization.
This seems to be a duel between philosophy and business sense.. and oddly enough, both camps can present their arguements Jackoo raises a point that man who uses a skunk picture on his posts raises points, even our boy shaggy here raises some points......and all seem correct and straight forward
personally Im in favour of not shafting the non RoS buyers because I hold roleplaying games pretty close to the heart. and that yea it seems to me like 2 handed weapons and legendary items have stuck out like sore thumbs for....a long time...ive lost count of the months as they have ticked by.....
But when viewing the arguement about satisfying paying customers, and remind that they are bloody well paying and their are probably fucking millions of them....i can see that as being the case for some as well..... it will be interesting how my wife takes the news. she has never played a roleplaying game before this one, is not level 60 yet and I have not told ehr anything about weapons issues at all....
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
I don't know. But if yes, what is your point? That Blizzard should cater to your needs for an indefinite time just because you paid them 40$ almost 2 years ago? There is a point where simply you are required to either move on (buy the expansion) or simply drop the game.
That is the most stupid thing I have heard in a while. You think it's alright to force people to pay money to enjoy properly something they bought in the past ? What kind of dumbass logic is that, are you a corporate executive or something ?
Your statement is only fair if you think you didn't get enough value for your money from D3 vanilla. Even in its original state, I remember playing Diablo for over a hundred hours - even before all the amazing patches, each one better than the other, that they pushed forward in the next couple months.
So yeah, I too agree there's a time you either have to move on from complaining and pay for the new content.
But even then your complain doesn't apply here. TWO YEARS after release, they still released a shitload of new stuff for the original game. Improved difficulties, revamped bosses and unique-mobs, new affixes, ABSOLUTELY HUGE skill revamp with new graphics and balance, new legendaries with specific effects...
I can agree maybe they could have done it in a way that didn't "break" 2h legendaries, and they probably could still do something to fix it... but to be simply ignore all the good changes and new content, and simply focus on such a small problem, saying they must focus all their efforts to fix it, is flat out hypocrisy and entitlement.
2 hand Legendaries do not match up at all sensibly with their 1 hand counterparts, in terms of pure DPS.
That is most definitely a problem and one that should not persist into RoS. They need to put these silly issues of "broken" itemization to rest.
"Pure DPS" =/= sheet DPS. Besides, looking at the numbers on the lvl70 items (both 1h and 2h) I believe that it all will be balanced at lvl70.
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I was just having a conversation in-game with a fellow member here (CardinalMDM) about the new Spirit Stone I found and how it drastically improved my non-sheet DPS.
Yeah, that's a shit-load of non-sheet DPS if you set your skills correctly.
However, I'm not seeing any substantial qualities inherent to 2-hand legendaries that compensates for the disparity in DPS, on or off the sheet. Show me where this is incorrect? I can show you 6 different legendary Diabos I've found, none of which have anything substantial about them enough to compensate for having only as much (or considerably less then) many/most legendary 1 handers I find.
some people feel that the game has given staggering amounts of content to "scratch the itch" caused by two handed legendary items
some people feel that 2 handed legendary items are not as big an issue as other issues
some people fee that fixing 2 handed weapons should be a much bigger deal than is being admitted to by developers and fans alike.
All of these camps (and there are more "camps" I'm sure......)can state reasonable arguements and many of the camps if not all of them feel that certain other camps or individual posters highlighting different ideas drawn from each of contrasting camps are speaking out of turn, thinking with little logic, behaving like stupid children.....etc.etc....
All have sockets and I used the same emeralds in them I'm not sure how it affects the criticals but regardless, with or without crits, shouldn't 2 handed weapons be able to do just as much damage as 2 one handed weapons ? I lose like 38k damage with the blackguard, which is too bad because I really like it
Read this for a response from a developer:http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/20a1n1/the_reason_why_all_2handers_roll_bad_dps/cg1z6os
Dual wielding is, at level 60, brokenly powerful. Either dual wielding the fastest daggers imagineable with high rubies in it or tossing 2 Emeralds in to make you crit for as much as possible, two weapon gems are just too powerful. Alternatively, if you look at Offhands(wizard, witch doctor) their damage ranges at level 70 aren't as high as they were at level 60 before 2.0.
One-handers got toned down, A LOT. Two-handers got noticeably stronger, as well. At level 60 you won't see the difference and pre-2.0 weapons are just so much better. Level 70? They are much, much closer.
"That said, this issue is unique to the transition time between patch 2.0.1 and Reaper of Souls. No one should experience this when playing the expansion -"
So what, if I don't get the xpack, I will be screwed out of 2handed weapons forever ???
"In order to get a completely full picture of this situation, we can re-evaluate both where potential changes may need to be made and what the best, most informed way is to make them after we can observe the 1-70 experience in a live environment."
They will evaluate this once RoS is live. Nowhere in this post does it indicate that you'll be stuck with this "forever".
So at lvl70 it should all be back to normal
After the PR issues Blizz has received forabysmalloot in D3, leaving this 2-hander issue lingering doesn't seem to be the best idea.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
It's much easier to make a build that "ignores" resources and just channels a single damage spell, without using primaries (which is a big DPS increase in most cases) if you're using a 2h weapon. The difference in channeling cost on Ray of Frost with 1.00 APS versus 1.40 APS is 16 APS versus 22.4 APS. Meaning you need 6.5 more AP/sec regeneration to infinitely channel Ray of Frost with a 1.40 APS weapon compared to a 1.00 APS weapon.
That is not some ancillary benefit. Not using a primary is a big deal in terms of effective DPS and it's something your sheet DPS doesn't even hint at.
EDIT
Since the most recent patch most of the 2h weapons I'm finding are 900+ DPS whereas most of the 1h weapons are 700+ DPS. I don't think the situation is nearly as grave as some "BLIZZ DIDN'T LISTEN TO MY BETA FEEDBACK" people want to make it.
That is most definitely a problem and one that should not persist into RoS. They need to put these silly issues of "broken" itemization to rest.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
But everyone has to realize that not only do "people who aren't buying RoS" represent a rather small minority of Diablo 3 players at this point, but they also represent no revenue.
Blizzard's due diligence for the next few months and for the preview 4-5 months is to ensure that RoS happens and is as good as it can be. They can't be diverting resources to fix 2hers for a few thousand players. That's outright neglectful. They, literally, have millions of people with $40 in hand saying "take my money and give me a good product." It is regrettable that they cannot do both, but with just a bit of rational thinking it's obvious why this issue is on the back burner.
Hell, I'm sure Blizzard is devoting quite a lot of resources to working with AT&T to get this stupid latency thing fixed otherwise RoS launch is going to be marred just like vanilla launch was. Personally, I think it's much more important that they get the lag ironed out instead of fixing 2hers at level 60. Why? Because one impacts millions and millions of paying (and non-paying) customers whereas the other impacts people who specifically are NOT paying them. Seems like common sense to give a higher level of service to people who are re-investing in your product, doesn't it? If I were a business owner that's exactly what I'd do.
It's just like a F2P game in that sense... you spend more and you get more in-game stuff... you spend less and you get less. Despite being a different business model the end result is the same. And, at this point, I think it would be naive to argue that making sure RoS launch goes as smoothly as possible isn't the #1 priority for the Diablo team. If it's not their #1 priority then there is something severely wrong with their prioritization.
personally Im in favour of not shafting the non RoS buyers because I hold roleplaying games pretty close to the heart. and that yea it seems to me like 2 handed weapons and legendary items have stuck out like sore thumbs for....a long time...ive lost count of the months as they have ticked by.....
But when viewing the arguement about satisfying paying customers, and remind that they are bloody well paying and their are probably fucking millions of them....i can see that as being the case for some as well.....
it will be interesting how my wife takes the news. she has never played a roleplaying game before this one, is not level 60 yet and I have not told ehr anything about weapons issues at all....
So yeah, I too agree there's a time you either have to move on from complaining and pay for the new content.
But even then your complain doesn't apply here. TWO YEARS after release, they still released a shitload of new stuff for the original game. Improved difficulties, revamped bosses and unique-mobs, new affixes, ABSOLUTELY HUGE skill revamp with new graphics and balance, new legendaries with specific effects...
I can agree maybe they could have done it in a way that didn't "break" 2h legendaries, and they probably could still do something to fix it... but to be simply ignore all the good changes and new content, and simply focus on such a small problem, saying they must focus all their efforts to fix it, is flat out hypocrisy and entitlement.
Yeah, that's a shit-load of non-sheet DPS if you set your skills correctly.
However, I'm not seeing any substantial qualities inherent to 2-hand legendaries that compensates for the disparity in DPS, on or off the sheet. Show me where this is incorrect? I can show you 6 different legendary Diabos I've found, none of which have anything substantial about them enough to compensate for having only as much (or considerably less then) many/most legendary 1 handers I find.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
some people feel that the game has given staggering amounts of content to "scratch the itch" caused by two handed legendary items
some people feel that 2 handed legendary items are not as big an issue as other issues
some people fee that fixing 2 handed weapons should be a much bigger deal than is being admitted to by developers and fans alike.
All of these camps (and there are more "camps" I'm sure......)can state reasonable arguements and many of the camps if not all of them feel that certain other camps or individual posters highlighting different ideas drawn from each of contrasting camps are speaking out of turn, thinking with little logic, behaving like stupid children.....etc.etc....