In most PVP games the majority of the builds seem to center around one principle, upping damage or upping survivability. With so many traits in D3 and so few points I wonder what people are going to choose to do for PVP characters (and more importantly what works better)
So, your thoughts? Do you think you will being going with traits to increase your defense, HP, dodge rate, and so on. Or will you be gearing towards higher damage, faster attack and cast speed, deadly strike and the like?
I voted balance of both, but IMO it will be a combination that favors damage. From Blizzcon it seems like matches are fast paced, but certain gear, skill, and trait combinations could make them longer than that. But I think it will end up favoring damage over survivability, but survivability will still be essential, especially through skills that allow you to break stuns and the like.
Character design in the Diablo series I think has been about power.
I see it as DPS vs. DPS in Diablo. There may be builds that increase health or defence stats, or builds that utilise ranged attacks and movement abilities?
But I would think that survivability would only be improved slightly and not to the desired effect you might hope for... eg getting into more of a tanking build
I don’t see Diablo 3 having characters designed with roles like healers or tanks? Survivability is more attached to those roles. If you do try create a more survival based build, I think it would fail because I don’t think the character design has balanced the game around different roles...Instead there is only one...DPS
I think we arent looking outside the box.
Perhaps there are more factors that come into play than just power and vitality.
Everything has a weakness, and you can pick your battles..
So perhaps it would be more of a challenge to build a character that can face
all classes regardless of their skills.
I think the list is to large to narrow it down to just damage, and vitality.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<--Click the Egg!
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
I think this is where a lot of the theory crafting is going to shine. Passive abilities like traits are "designed" to be balanced around some allocation system - that is, you can't have damage without sacrificing survivability and vice versa. From the looks of it, very few traits are obviously PvM focused (ie: Lucky) so it's going to come down largely to what your skills are and if the traits pair well. Your teammates are also going to influence your build as well as whatever counters the winning/overpowered flavor of the time.
I would like to have a balance of both survivability and damage. I don't want to be the last one standing every match, in a 2v1 of frantic desperation. I'd rather like to be able to outlast damage, as well as deal it back equally. And if things do take a turn for the worst, and I am left alone on my team, I can count on the balance of those two to help me win the disadvantage.
But again, it would really depend on the class I'm using... But I'd go for the same idea for every class.
I think it's all about the DPS. With the lack of spammable health potions, it's all about outdamaging your opponent. You don't want to draw out the match and let the orbs spawn, neither do you want to take too long to kill your enemy, because that would give them enough time for his team to come to his help or for him to flee. Survivability can be improved by careful gameplay, it's more important to be able to kill your opponent quickly once he enters your attack range. So I think it's a balance of damage mainly, paired with the ability to avoid damage thanks to skillful gameplay.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head!
In most games i've played PvP requires a balance between Damage and Survivability while PvE is about maxing one those (DPS for damage dealers, survivability for Tanks).
Basically because against a AI you can easilly manipulate your enemies via kiting, ccing and teamplay. Against players most of those tatics fail and attrition take place. A glass canon fails in PvP 99% of the time because it's impossible for your allies/merc/summon to protect you like they do in PvE. A glass canon will just drop like a fly.
Also balanced character allows for far more diversified tatics. You can play both offensively and defensively when you have to, while specialized teams have poor adaptability.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
I still think(hope) that orbs will be removed from the arenas at some point in beta.
Blizzard probably had this is mind, to give some sort of teamwork feel to it. But maximum healing for the entire party is way too excessive, It gives way to much importance to stun-like skills. Not to mention the obvious advantage the wizard has with teleport.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
The whole design of D3 seems to be based around stuns/snares/etc and the skills that counter them. So its not just like "Oh, I'll have all 7 skills be stuns and snares" because then you wouldn't be able to get out of any stuns. So if you burn all your counter skills and then get stunned right when a health globe pops up, thats either your own fault or it was because the other team timed it well enough.
And based on the PvP demo at Blizzcon, arenas are only about .5-1.5 minutes even with health globes, so without them they would be extremely short. Also, the Wizard's Tele doesn't seem to have a huge advantage over other movement skills. In fact, the DH's Vault seems to be the fastest, or at least comparable to Tele. The WD can pick up Health Globes while he's immune to damage during Spirit Walk, and the Barbarian not only has Leap Attack but also a sprint to get to health globes and Ancient Spear to prevent the other team from picking them up.
I wanna make a survivability/sapper monk. The monk has so many survivability skills, I'd just make him live long enough to drain out others' main resource (mana, rage, w/e). Then once they're spamming T1 skills at me, light em up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Remember the traps inside the arena themselves? Man that would be lame in Diablo III arenas.
Back to topic:
@Dolaiim that is a very interesting idea for a build. The question is, would you be able to sap all of the opposing team, or would you focus on one at a time?
I personally want a Witch Doctor to be my first character, but he simply doesn't intrigue me as a PvP character. I would probably make a heavy-hitting, shield bearing, speedy Barbarian - hopefully the way he moves will be as intimidating as his attacks! Psychological warfare!
Actually i think the WD will be a very solid PvP character. He has a fairly amount of crowd control and field control skills. He can also gain spell damage based on his Max HP, allowing for tanky WD builds.
Map control, specifically the spawning point for health orbs.
Well regardless of how you build your character, controlling the health orbs will be the highest priority to win, I am going to assume it will come down to 2 DPS characters and one tank, hopefully your teams tank will out live the other team so you get a win wile your DPSers kill them off.
As for 1v1, Im willing to wager it will be all about DPS.
Anyone remember the old show Battlebots?
OMG I LOVED THAT SHOW! It would be interesting to see traps in the arenas, but I feel like I would just get angry and frustrated by them. I hope they don't get put in.
It really depends on your build AND your personal style. For example lets take a look at sorcs in d2. ( mind you I only played d2 between release - 1.09 and was purely focused on building PvP builds). You could build a fireball/hydra sorc and kill people by maintaining distance from people, lurking around the edges and sniping them with fireball and controlling their position with hydra. OR, you can use the exact same fireball/hydra sorc and play it like you are Rambo, just teleport ontop of people and blast them with fireball. Obviously in the first case you would want more FCR/mana/regen gear whilst in the second case you want a lot of DR gear with max-block etc. So you can see how the exact same class and same skill build can be used in very different ways.
Remember this is not an MMO so there will be ALOT more mechanics that are possible in PvP. This means that the best build will not necessarily win the battle. Skill, control of your character and the overall strength of your strategy will be the major factor.
All i gotta say for the rest of this matter is....PVP is gonna rock..
Although they wont be making it "Awesome" it's still going to be hella fun!
Im gonna come and get YOU!
So, your thoughts? Do you think you will being going with traits to increase your defense, HP, dodge rate, and so on. Or will you be gearing towards higher damage, faster attack and cast speed, deadly strike and the like?
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
DiabloFans: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Live Chat
I see it as DPS vs. DPS in Diablo. There may be builds that increase health or defence stats, or builds that utilise ranged attacks and movement abilities?
But I would think that survivability would only be improved slightly and not to the desired effect you might hope for... eg getting into more of a tanking build
I don’t see Diablo 3 having characters designed with roles like healers or tanks? Survivability is more attached to those roles. If you do try create a more survival based build, I think it would fail because I don’t think the character design has balanced the game around different roles...Instead there is only one...DPS
So I voted for "focus on damage"
Perhaps there are more factors that come into play than just power and vitality.
Everything has a weakness, and you can pick your battles..
So perhaps it would be more of a challenge to build a character that can face
all classes regardless of their skills.
I think the list is to large to narrow it down to just damage, and vitality.
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
But again, it would really depend on the class I'm using... But I'd go for the same idea for every class.
Basically because against a AI you can easilly manipulate your enemies via kiting, ccing and teamplay. Against players most of those tatics fail and attrition take place. A glass canon fails in PvP 99% of the time because it's impossible for your allies/merc/summon to protect you like they do in PvE. A glass canon will just drop like a fly.
Also balanced character allows for far more diversified tatics. You can play both offensively and defensively when you have to, while specialized teams have poor adaptability.
This is very important, seeing that it is the only way you can recover health in the arenas.
I think that it will important to know the timing of when they spawn as well.
Blizzard probably had this is mind, to give some sort of teamwork feel to it. But maximum healing for the entire party is way too excessive, It gives way to much importance to stun-like skills. Not to mention the obvious advantage the wizard has with teleport.
And based on the PvP demo at Blizzcon, arenas are only about .5-1.5 minutes even with health globes, so without them they would be extremely short. Also, the Wizard's Tele doesn't seem to have a huge advantage over other movement skills. In fact, the DH's Vault seems to be the fastest, or at least comparable to Tele. The WD can pick up Health Globes while he's immune to damage during Spirit Walk, and the Barbarian not only has Leap Attack but also a sprint to get to health globes and Ancient Spear to prevent the other team from picking them up.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
DiabloFans: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Live Chat
-Thomas Jefferson
Remember the traps inside the arena themselves? Man that would be lame in Diablo III arenas.
Back to topic:
@Dolaiim that is a very interesting idea for a build. The question is, would you be able to sap all of the opposing team, or would you focus on one at a time?
I personally want a Witch Doctor to be my first character, but he simply doesn't intrigue me as a PvP character. I would probably make a heavy-hitting, shield bearing, speedy Barbarian - hopefully the way he moves will be as intimidating as his attacks! Psychological warfare!
Well regardless of how you build your character, controlling the health orbs will be the highest priority to win, I am going to assume it will come down to 2 DPS characters and one tank, hopefully your teams tank will out live the other team so you get a win wile your DPSers kill them off.
As for 1v1, Im willing to wager it will be all about DPS.
OMG I LOVED THAT SHOW! It would be interesting to see traps in the arenas, but I feel like I would just get angry and frustrated by them. I hope they don't get put in.
Remember this is not an MMO so there will be ALOT more mechanics that are possible in PvP. This means that the best build will not necessarily win the battle. Skill, control of your character and the overall strength of your strategy will be the major factor.
Although they wont be making it "Awesome" it's still going to be hella fun!
Im gonna come and get YOU!
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .._,,-~~~-,-,,_
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ,,---,,_... ...,-~",-":__-,: : :"-,:::"'~,,
.,,-~~--,, ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ,~": : --,,:"~,,-"::::/:,-". . ."'~-,,: \,::::_,,"~-,,
/: : : : : : :"'~-,,... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |... ... /: : : : :~"'\,: \::__/:|o--,,. . . . .\,: ¯¯: : : : : :"-,
\: : : : : : : : : : :""~,,... ... ... ... ... ... ... |... ... .\: : : : : :,,-"~": : : "'~~-,:"'~-,,_|: : :,-"¯¯¯¯"-,:|
.'~,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"'~-,,_... ... ... ... ...|... ... .."-,_: ,-" : : : : : : : : : : : "~,--~": : (o~--,,_. . |:|
... ."'~-,,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"-,~--,... ... ... |... ... ... ...,/: : : : : : ,,--,-,~-,,: : :"~-,,: : :"~,___:"-/,/__
... ... ...,"~"~--,,_,,-~"`"`": : "-,::"'~~--,,_..| ... ... ... ..|: : : ,: :,-". ,-"./. . . ."-,,_: : :"~-~": : : :"'-,,~,:"-,,
... ... .,/: : : : --,,:|: : : : : : : : :"-,,::::::::::::"~--,,_... ... \: : :|: /. .,/. . |. . . ,-".|. "~,,_____,,,,,__:\: : : : |
... ... .|: : : : : : : "|: : : : : : :,: : : :\:::::::::::::::::::::"'~~-,,"-,:|: |. /. . . .|. .,-". . |. ,-"'. \. . .,/|. . . .",:\: : ,/
... ... ..\, : : : : : ,/ : : : : : : :|: : : ,/::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::"\: "-,,___,\,/___,,\/___. |,-". |. . . ,/.|: |,~"
... ... ... ",-,,,__/: : : : : : :,/,_~"-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::"-,,____,, : : : : : : : : : "'~,,,/.,,~". ,/: /
... ... ... /: : : : :"-,,___,,-": : ,"-,-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::'\: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : "-"__,-":,-"
... ... ... '\,_: : : : : : /-,,___,,"~-----~~~~,~---,,__::::::::::::::::::::::|: : : : : : : : __,,--~"~,,___,,-"
... ... ... ... ."'~---~"... ... ... ... ... ... ...|---~"::::"'~-::::::::::::::::,/: : : : : : : : : :\"~,,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|::::::::::::::::::::::::::::,,": : : : : : : : : : : |:::::"-,,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|:::::::::::::::::::::::,,-": : : : : : : : : : : : :,|:::::::::"-,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|::::::::::_,,,--~~": : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,/::::::::::::::\,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|----~~" : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,/::::::::::::::::::\,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,-,"::::::::::::::::::::::\
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : _,,~"SL'\,::::::::::::::::::::::\
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,,-"... ... ... .\:::::::::::::::::::::::\
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : :_,,--~"... ... ... ... ...\:::::::::::::::::::::::\
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿