I strongly suspect that if Blizzard decides to use a BoE/BoP economy, it will mainly be on player-created gear, with a few uniques and set items also in that repertoire. Think of crafted amulets from D2. If those were BoP (actually, bound when created), a lot more of the resources would have been burned by crafting amulets not for your class, although with a bit of luck you could still create something that is superior to nearly everything else in the game. These burned resources in turn need to be farmed again, or traded for again to give it another shot instead of skipping the hoopla and trading straight for the best you can afford.
One of the biggest complaints people have had with d2 were top end items being too insanely rare. An actual badass crafted amulet was amongst the rarest of the rare. Most people haven't even ever owned a godly crafted amulet either self made or via trade, because they are that rare. Considering that, would binding them really be too intelligent? I think if I managed to craft a gg amulet with 20fcr, a nice str mod, some life, and some res on my assassin, only it had +2 to paladin skills and was only useable by my assassin, I would just stop playing the game because that would be the most annoying pointless feature ever.
As far as the PvE versus PvP arguement goes, the possibility of BoE/BoP is a pretty moot issue. The field is even between PvP participants. Need to craft amulets until you get what you need? Farm it out or do what most PvPers claim to have been doing anyway: play the market to get the materials needed to craft. You are now contributing to the economical system, driving up the demand until some PvE player is happy to earn coin in exchange for the materials you need, further validating the BoE/BoP system.
The reason people can play the market in D2 is because things don't bind. I've made many a trade for items I currently had that I still wanted, simply because the other guy was giving a sweet offer, and I knew with a little patience I could trade back with someone else for what I originally had and make some profit. Had my gear been bound, I would have been unable to do this.
If it ends up where only the "best in slot" item for each character binds, guess what the economy is going to mold into. Its going to amount to unbound BoE piece for unbound BoE piece, and everything else is going to be like the green pieces in D2, you'll drop a stash full of it in a noob game and they'll all get a boner while your laughing becuase you know its all worthless junk.
Besides, your missing the huge gripe of pvp'ers. We don't want to grind out the same pve content over and over just to be able to get to the part of the game we enjoy the most. I liked D2 because after I got established at the start of each ladder, I'd spend about 3 hours pk'ig/dueling for every hour I spent pve'ing. If that ratio was reversed and I was spending all my time doing the same pve content over and over, I probably would have played d2 for 10 months, not 10 years, especially since the only reason I had to pve at all anymore after already beating the game with multiple builds for each class was to acquire items to pvp with.
I still can't believe some people prefer spending 3 hours trying to trade some gear, instead of spending those 3 hours killing monsters. just a hypothetical question: if in 3 hours of PvE you got decent pieces of gear(to trade or use), would you rather play PvE for those 3 hours or would you rather spend 3 hours on trade channels?
btw, good post, Ferret.
Id rather spend the 3 hours doing trade channel. The 3 hours spent on PvM are redundant and are something that has already been done to death, trading in the channels is also redundant but you have a greater % of actually getting the item you want and if you get bored of trading you can take a quick break and go PvP. Yea you can stop PvM and go PvP for a quick break too but I see little reason to resume PvM since in the long run your odds of finding that rare item are little to none opposed to spending a little effort in the trade channel haggling which in itself is a skill and can be quiet enjoyable if one was good at it.
I think if I managed to craft a gg amulet with 20fcr, a nice str mod, some life, and some res on my assassin, only it had +2 to paladin skills and was only useable by my assassin, I would just stop playing the game because that would be the most annoying pointless feature ever.
lol ok if you have a +2 skill for a specific character DON'T WEAR IT with anothers character.......... BoE was activate only when you wear it.
Quote from "maka" »
if in 3 hours of PvE you got decent pieces of gear(to trade or use), would you rather play PvE for those 3 hours or would you rather spend 3 hours on trade channels?
I extremely doubt trade will take 3 hours with the new trade system.. if yes Blizzard failed.
I still can't believe some people prefer spending 3 hours trying to trade some gear, instead of spending those 3 hours killing monsters. just a hypothetical question: if in 3 hours of PvE you got decent pieces of gear(to trade or use), would you rather play PvE for those 3 hours or would you rather spend 3 hours on trade channels?
btw, good post, Ferret.
I prefer pass 3 hours on pvp and 10 minutes trading.
Not everything will be BoE. Like the example I used in my other post, just because the crafted amulet is bound doesn't mean the materials used to craft it are. It creates active trade among more objects in the game while leaving out the chance to be the best simply by having the best gear available without effort.
How would the best gear available without effort? Does it really matter if I craft my own amulet, or build wealth in other ways and trade some dude for an amulet he crafted?
As far as the whole duping/item buying ruining the economy, you got one thing right at least. These did screw up the D2 economy. I'd much rather just see these fixxed then BoE, which I can't see accomplishing anything other then hurting trading, discouraging experimentation, and adding grind time.
I still can't believe some people prefer spending 3 hours trying to trade some gear, instead of spending those 3 hours killing monsters. just a hypothetical question: if in 3 hours of PvE you got decent pieces of gear(to trade or use), would you rather play PvE for those 3 hours or would you rather spend 3 hours on trade channels?
I'd rather spend 1 minute making a post of d2jsp and 2 hours and 59 minutes pvp/pk'ing. Why not make D3 more trader friendly so I had a way in game to wheel and deal while pvm'ing or pvp'ing. Somehow, I can't see how BoE would fit in the trader friendly category.
I extremely doubt trade will take 3 hours with the new trade system.. if yes Blizzard failed.
Gold based and binding gear...I thought they were just trying to do away with trading in D3.
I personally don't want gear-binding. It just feels like too much of an MMO concept that they're trying to incorporate in to a much faster game. I would feel better about it if they tried some other things first, showed us what they were, and said why they didn't work... or something. Gear binding doesn't feel "right" to me.
Sure, in the end BoE must exist for a greater good, no questions. With a good sink they can put the ideal drop rates in the game.
I just think they should also add some system to reward PvP players, making easier for then to achieve high end items since tradeing high end stuff will problably alot harder.
I think Blizzard will come up with something that will balance out the BoE and for the PvP.
It was suggested to have PvP wagers or maybe drops for defeating other players. Arena's that hand out prises based on how well you did. Side benefit would be achievement points.
Maybe Achievement points can be used to buy extra MF potions that will increase MF for a period of time
Improve Gambling if it is still in the game.
Offcourse the important part is the drop rate.
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It was suggested to have PvP wagers or maybe drops for defeating other players.
That was one of the things that I thought about that could be really cool, like you put up an item and whoever wins the duel gets it..that'd settle a lot of feuds
That was one of the things that I thought about that could be really cool, like you put up an item and whoever wins the duel gets it..that'd settle a lot of feuds
Except if the D3 community for PvP is anything like the community for D2 is you won't ever see anyone in the arena. Just alot of trash talk and they never back it up. Should be able to put up accounts vs accounts since the odds of any trash talker actually following through and going to an arena are slim to none you may as well bet the house.
I appreciate that the conversation has now seemed to have switched to something more constructive.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill. You have to know your class skills inside out, and know all the enemy class skills inside out. My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded. But that is not a knock on diablo. I enjoyed my Diablo pvp years 10x more than I enjoyed WoW's pvp, despite the fact that I did very well in arenas
Mainly because WoW is a hamsterwheel. You'll never do well unless you are willing to put in endless hours a day farming honor, dungeons and arena points just to stay with the latest rewards. And at the end of the day, every pvper is decked out in virtually the same gear. Boring
There was a psychology study done several years back involving pre-school kids. The children were given 1 hour "free time" every day, and given access to coloring books and crayons. All the kids spent the entire hour happily coloring to their hearts delight for weeks
Then the experimenters began awarding the children Gold Stars depending on how much they colored.
Then a few days later, the experimenters stopped handing out stars for the coloring sessions. Very quickly, the children who had once loved to color, suddenly didn't have the interest in it anymore. None of them spent that hour of free time coloring anymore
How does this relate to PvP and even PvE? When you give fixed target rewards for something people enjoyed doing, they get tunnel vision and view the activity as a chore that must be done to get the reward. The activity loses its intrinsic enjoyability, to the same person who was happily enjoying it without rewards prior.
This doesn't apply to magic finding because magic finding is an interirely different phenomena (namely magic finding taps into the natural enjoyment we get from gambling and games of chance)
*
Diablo PvP'ers don't need rewards and gimicks to enjoy themselves. On any given day, join one of the popular dueling games and watch the people happily running around the fields outside act 1 chatting about anything and everything with one another while they take turns dueling.
All we want is for our trade system not to get butchered.
In my opinion, the best option would be a delayed soul-binding system.
Something like, on January 1'st of every year - all high end items in peoples inventories/characters will get soul bound permanently
What this allows is basically a full year of free and open trading. But the annual sever wide soul-bind of rare items will ensure that they never build up. Because every year on Jan1st, there are zero rares floating around in the market. Then over the year they begin to slowly build up again.
Ofcourse for PVP'ers, we would prefer no soul binding ever. But that doesn't address the problem of rares pooling up, which harms PVE'ers. So a compromise is to meet each other half way with something like the system I just mentioned.
How do you know that it is not based on fighting skill. Have you played it?
I'm also guessing that any form of general reward would only be given if you use some form of matchmaking, otherwise it would be abused. Betting or similar things would work just fine since they are optional and a part of a deal. Both parts know what they are doing and can choose to not risk anything if they think that their opponents gear is too good.
Also, there is no stat point customization in Diablo 3.
For the answer, read what I wrote in the few sentences after the portion you quoted
Rare item build up hurts PVE'ers because it waters down the game over time. Take the best bows (other than a few crafted) in the game for many years (buriza/eaglehorn/windy). As time goes by, more and more and more people find those bows, so they begin to build up. The more of them that are found, the less valuable they become. Several years in they are relatively cheap, such that nearly every Zon is carrying them
Same thing with the best rare shield (stormshield)
That hurts PVE because the game is not designed to be tackled by parties of players decked out in full rare gear. It watens down the PVE experience making it easier
And i'm assuming PVE'ers enjoy challenges. Thats why rare item build up hurts PVE'ers. (It doesn't really affect PVP'ers because PVP a weapon with 2% more damage is a huge advantage in PVP, but irrelevant in PVE. So as items pool up in the game, it just means the bar for what is elite pvp gear shifts upward with it because your facing other players). Baal doesn't get stronger depending on how many rares are currently in the game
i think you just antagonised the few supporters you had on this thread. a few pages back, they were screaming that D2 PvP was all about skill.
Ofcourse its about skill. But its not the same type of skill which lends itself to things such as arena's or pvp rewards. It skill based on how well you can custom-tailor your characters gear to match your stat points. An infinitely flexible process if you know what your doing. And skill based on knowledge about what really are the best items in the game.
Knowing when you should break the bank and trade everything you have to get that cheesy looking yellow sword which does half the damage of the rares everyone else has simply because you know the mechanics of why that sword is better with your class in terms of frame-rate of attack speed and such. Knowing how to figure out why your paladin zealot is losing to another zealot when he seems to have the same gear as you. Thats the whole fun of pvp in hack-and-slash games, and what determines the skill
But its not skill based in the sense of whoever has the best timing and reflexes wins the fight. Only time that was ever true was in amazon duels when people used to maphack and knowing how to aim guided missile arrows using maphack was a cat and mouse game between amazons.
Other than that, two teleporting sorc or whirlwinding barbarians who have been pvp'ing for are pretty much identical in how much their skill affects the fight. Leave alone java-zons , paladins, and fury druids who basically point and click on each other, and watch as the characters pound each other, until one person's dmg/leech/lethalstrike wins them the duel. It comes down to the skill of the player before the fight even started
well, only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated.
What you think PVP'er spend their time eyeballing each other down and talking smack?
The social aspect of it is 80% of why people like PVP.
PvP'ers have their own private channels, private games, private forums etc. It literally is a tight knit community.
On any given day in a palapk game, we'd be sitting around chatting all night while other PvP'ers float in and out of the game. And almost every person who joins (random people out of the thousands in palapk in those days), everyone in the game would greet them by name. "Sup Mike" "Hey Marco" etc etc
Thats what Diablo PVP is about. Hanging out with people you see every day in dueling games, and who quickly become your friends. The trading and gearing up for PVP is just the fuel which keeps people interested and frequenting the same channels and games. The social aspect is the natural consequence of playing with the same people so often. If your a PVPer, you log onto D2, instantly join whatever private game is common knowledge among pvpers, and youll find the games packed all the time. Duel everyone in the game for fun, then chat away about life and everything in between
dude, you're talking crap, and you know it. that type of community you describe is perhaps 10 or 15% (TOPS!) of the PvP players, the rest is composed of little kids who like to talk crap all day, or idiotic PvPers/PKers who can only get their rocks off by belittling other people.
I don't give a crap about the "idiotic pvper/pker". They are irrelevant. They are not the community who is still playing diablo 10 years after release.
And is FAR more than "10 or 15%". You talk very confidently for a guy who i'm starting to quickly realize knows jack sh*t about the game
How arrogant of you to declare "well only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated."
And then as a long time PVP'er, when I tell you one of the main reasons why PVP is so popular, you can't even take the highroad on that, and still want to bully through your bullsh*t some more.
D2 PvP is not all about skills or all about gear. It's a combination of different fields that determines what you need.
And the "item" part of the PvP is alot more related to know wich item you should wear then in simple have stronger items. In many many many occasions weaker and easier to find items are better then high end stuff.
In other words, be rich and have tons of gear is important, but it's not everything. In the end what mater is your ability to understand the game's mechanics and based on that make the right choice.
And rewards are natural in any competition. The way it works in wow sux because it turns out into something "farmable". Periodical PvP tournaments with reward for the best players would be sweet to mobilize the competitive people and turns the game more enjoyable for pvpers.
I understand that some people don't like to compete and it's fine. Those people still can open room for dueling, chating and all the the d2 magic.
I'm 100% against match making.
doesn't matter whether you give a crap about them or not...they exist. you're saying "yeah, the PvP players are all about getting together and duel in a friendly manner......if you don't count the ones that are unfriendly".
then why are you so worried about BoE? those "weaker and easier to find items" probably won't be BoE, so....
Sorry but I do not know those "unfriendly" pvpers. All friends I have in D2 i met then in pvp rooms. Are talking about pk, bms or what ? Explain :/
And i said MANY not ALL occasions. In the end whats matter is have a wide array of items at your disposal and know wich one you should pick. Since it's not viable to have all items in the game muled, the best way to achieve this goal is to aces a good and dynamic market.
And you are just antagonizing the thread between PvMers/support BoE and PvPers/don't support BoE. If you play attention you will find out that i SUPPORT BoE even though i'm a pvp player. I just acknowlge that the people that disagreed with me had a valid point.
no,should i quote you again? you said "many many many". that sounds like, at least, over 50%. So BoE won't be the cataclysm that some are saying it will. that is all.
"many" means youalso need weak items, it don't mean you can replace the high end good ones. It means you need both.
And if they don't put a system to reward pvp players BoE can be extremely burdening even if it only appears in very few items.
unfriendly PvP....you know....people that like to talk smack. i would call that unfriendly.
Sorry but i just think i allways played in a different server then you. I allways found alot of bms both in PvMa nd in PvP. The difference is that i also find friends doing pvp while people on pvm barely talk to each other in open rooms because they are to buzy rushing the game like humam bots.
oh, another thing i would like to introduce into the discussion: with Enigma likely gone, and wiz's teleport having a cooldown, PvP playstyle will forcibly change. so you can't look at PvP in D3 from a D2 perspective. just wanted to throw that out there.
Yeah agree but i dunno what teleports have to with this subject O.o
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Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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One of the biggest complaints people have had with d2 were top end items being too insanely rare. An actual badass crafted amulet was amongst the rarest of the rare. Most people haven't even ever owned a godly crafted amulet either self made or via trade, because they are that rare. Considering that, would binding them really be too intelligent? I think if I managed to craft a gg amulet with 20fcr, a nice str mod, some life, and some res on my assassin, only it had +2 to paladin skills and was only useable by my assassin, I would just stop playing the game because that would be the most annoying pointless feature ever.
The reason people can play the market in D2 is because things don't bind. I've made many a trade for items I currently had that I still wanted, simply because the other guy was giving a sweet offer, and I knew with a little patience I could trade back with someone else for what I originally had and make some profit. Had my gear been bound, I would have been unable to do this.
If it ends up where only the "best in slot" item for each character binds, guess what the economy is going to mold into. Its going to amount to unbound BoE piece for unbound BoE piece, and everything else is going to be like the green pieces in D2, you'll drop a stash full of it in a noob game and they'll all get a boner while your laughing becuase you know its all worthless junk.
Besides, your missing the huge gripe of pvp'ers. We don't want to grind out the same pve content over and over just to be able to get to the part of the game we enjoy the most. I liked D2 because after I got established at the start of each ladder, I'd spend about 3 hours pk'ig/dueling for every hour I spent pve'ing. If that ratio was reversed and I was spending all my time doing the same pve content over and over, I probably would have played d2 for 10 months, not 10 years, especially since the only reason I had to pve at all anymore after already beating the game with multiple builds for each class was to acquire items to pvp with.
Id rather spend the 3 hours doing trade channel. The 3 hours spent on PvM are redundant and are something that has already been done to death, trading in the channels is also redundant but you have a greater % of actually getting the item you want and if you get bored of trading you can take a quick break and go PvP. Yea you can stop PvM and go PvP for a quick break too but I see little reason to resume PvM since in the long run your odds of finding that rare item are little to none opposed to spending a little effort in the trade channel haggling which in itself is a skill and can be quiet enjoyable if one was good at it.
lol ok if you have a +2 skill for a specific character DON'T WEAR IT with anothers character.......... BoE was activate only when you wear it.
I extremely doubt trade will take 3 hours with the new trade system.. if yes Blizzard failed.
I prefer pass 3 hours on pvp and 10 minutes trading.
How would the best gear available without effort? Does it really matter if I craft my own amulet, or build wealth in other ways and trade some dude for an amulet he crafted?
As far as the whole duping/item buying ruining the economy, you got one thing right at least. These did screw up the D2 economy. I'd much rather just see these fixxed then BoE, which I can't see accomplishing anything other then hurting trading, discouraging experimentation, and adding grind time.
I'd rather spend 1 minute making a post of d2jsp and 2 hours and 59 minutes pvp/pk'ing. Why not make D3 more trader friendly so I had a way in game to wheel and deal while pvm'ing or pvp'ing. Somehow, I can't see how BoE would fit in the trader friendly category.
Gold based and binding gear...I thought they were just trying to do away with trading in D3.
That's my only gripe.
I just think they should also add some system to reward PvP players, making easier for then to achieve high end items since tradeing high end stuff will problably alot harder.
It was suggested to have PvP wagers or maybe drops for defeating other players. Arena's that hand out prises based on how well you did. Side benefit would be achievement points.
Maybe Achievement points can be used to buy extra MF potions that will increase MF for a period of time
Improve Gambling if it is still in the game.
Offcourse the important part is the drop rate.
That was one of the things that I thought about that could be really cool, like you put up an item and whoever wins the duel gets it..that'd settle a lot of feuds
♣Strength and Honor♣
Except if the D3 community for PvP is anything like the community for D2 is you won't ever see anyone in the arena. Just alot of trash talk and they never back it up. Should be able to put up accounts vs accounts since the odds of any trash talker actually following through and going to an arena are slim to none you may as well bet the house.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill. You have to know your class skills inside out, and know all the enemy class skills inside out. My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded. But that is not a knock on diablo. I enjoyed my Diablo pvp years 10x more than I enjoyed WoW's pvp, despite the fact that I did very well in arenas
Mainly because WoW is a hamsterwheel. You'll never do well unless you are willing to put in endless hours a day farming honor, dungeons and arena points just to stay with the latest rewards. And at the end of the day, every pvper is decked out in virtually the same gear. Boring
There was a psychology study done several years back involving pre-school kids. The children were given 1 hour "free time" every day, and given access to coloring books and crayons. All the kids spent the entire hour happily coloring to their hearts delight for weeks
Then the experimenters began awarding the children Gold Stars depending on how much they colored.
Then a few days later, the experimenters stopped handing out stars for the coloring sessions. Very quickly, the children who had once loved to color, suddenly didn't have the interest in it anymore. None of them spent that hour of free time coloring anymore
How does this relate to PvP and even PvE? When you give fixed target rewards for something people enjoyed doing, they get tunnel vision and view the activity as a chore that must be done to get the reward. The activity loses its intrinsic enjoyability, to the same person who was happily enjoying it without rewards prior.
This doesn't apply to magic finding because magic finding is an interirely different phenomena (namely magic finding taps into the natural enjoyment we get from gambling and games of chance)
Diablo PvP'ers don't need rewards and gimicks to enjoy themselves. On any given day, join one of the popular dueling games and watch the people happily running around the fields outside act 1 chatting about anything and everything with one another while they take turns dueling.
All we want is for our trade system not to get butchered.
In my opinion, the best option would be a delayed soul-binding system.
Something like, on January 1'st of every year - all high end items in peoples inventories/characters will get soul bound permanently
What this allows is basically a full year of free and open trading. But the annual sever wide soul-bind of rare items will ensure that they never build up. Because every year on Jan1st, there are zero rares floating around in the market. Then over the year they begin to slowly build up again.
Ofcourse for PVP'ers, we would prefer no soul binding ever. But that doesn't address the problem of rares pooling up, which harms PVE'ers. So a compromise is to meet each other half way with something like the system I just mentioned.
For the answer, read what I wrote in the few sentences after the portion you quoted
Rare item build up hurts PVE'ers because it waters down the game over time. Take the best bows (other than a few crafted) in the game for many years (buriza/eaglehorn/windy). As time goes by, more and more and more people find those bows, so they begin to build up. The more of them that are found, the less valuable they become. Several years in they are relatively cheap, such that nearly every Zon is carrying them
Same thing with the best rare shield (stormshield)
That hurts PVE because the game is not designed to be tackled by parties of players decked out in full rare gear. It watens down the PVE experience making it easier
And i'm assuming PVE'ers enjoy challenges. Thats why rare item build up hurts PVE'ers. (It doesn't really affect PVP'ers because PVP a weapon with 2% more damage is a huge advantage in PVP, but irrelevant in PVE. So as items pool up in the game, it just means the bar for what is elite pvp gear shifts upward with it because your facing other players). Baal doesn't get stronger depending on how many rares are currently in the game
Ofcourse its about skill. But its not the same type of skill which lends itself to things such as arena's or pvp rewards. It skill based on how well you can custom-tailor your characters gear to match your stat points. An infinitely flexible process if you know what your doing. And skill based on knowledge about what really are the best items in the game.
Knowing when you should break the bank and trade everything you have to get that cheesy looking yellow sword which does half the damage of the rares everyone else has simply because you know the mechanics of why that sword is better with your class in terms of frame-rate of attack speed and such. Knowing how to figure out why your paladin zealot is losing to another zealot when he seems to have the same gear as you. Thats the whole fun of pvp in hack-and-slash games, and what determines the skill
But its not skill based in the sense of whoever has the best timing and reflexes wins the fight. Only time that was ever true was in amazon duels when people used to maphack and knowing how to aim guided missile arrows using maphack was a cat and mouse game between amazons.
Other than that, two teleporting sorc or whirlwinding barbarians who have been pvp'ing for are pretty much identical in how much their skill affects the fight. Leave alone java-zons , paladins, and fury druids who basically point and click on each other, and watch as the characters pound each other, until one person's dmg/leech/lethalstrike wins them the duel. It comes down to the skill of the player before the fight even started
...And how you play with
What you think PVP'er spend their time eyeballing each other down and talking smack?
The social aspect of it is 80% of why people like PVP.
PvP'ers have their own private channels, private games, private forums etc. It literally is a tight knit community.
On any given day in a palapk game, we'd be sitting around chatting all night while other PvP'ers float in and out of the game. And almost every person who joins (random people out of the thousands in palapk in those days), everyone in the game would greet them by name. "Sup Mike" "Hey Marco" etc etc
Thats what Diablo PVP is about. Hanging out with people you see every day in dueling games, and who quickly become your friends. The trading and gearing up for PVP is just the fuel which keeps people interested and frequenting the same channels and games. The social aspect is the natural consequence of playing with the same people so often. If your a PVPer, you log onto D2, instantly join whatever private game is common knowledge among pvpers, and youll find the games packed all the time. Duel everyone in the game for fun, then chat away about life and everything in between
I don't give a crap about the "idiotic pvper/pker". They are irrelevant. They are not the community who is still playing diablo 10 years after release.
And is FAR more than "10 or 15%". You talk very confidently for a guy who i'm starting to quickly realize knows jack sh*t about the game
How arrogant of you to declare "well only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated."
And then as a long time PVP'er, when I tell you one of the main reasons why PVP is so popular, you can't even take the highroad on that, and still want to bully through your bullsh*t some more.
And the "item" part of the PvP is alot more related to know wich item you should wear then in simple have stronger items. In many many many occasions weaker and easier to find items are better then high end stuff.
In other words, be rich and have tons of gear is important, but it's not everything. In the end what mater is your ability to understand the game's mechanics and based on that make the right choice.
And rewards are natural in any competition. The way it works in wow sux because it turns out into something "farmable". Periodical PvP tournaments with reward for the best players would be sweet to mobilize the competitive people and turns the game more enjoyable for pvpers.
I understand that some people don't like to compete and it's fine. Those people still can open room for dueling, chating and all the the d2 magic.
I'm 100% against match making.
Sorry but I do not know those "unfriendly" pvpers. All friends I have in D2 i met then in pvp rooms. Are talking about pk, bms or what ? Explain :/
And i said MANY not ALL occasions. In the end whats matter is have a wide array of items at your disposal and know wich one you should pick. Since it's not viable to have all items in the game muled, the best way to achieve this goal is to aces a good and dynamic market.
And you are just antagonizing the thread between PvMers/support BoE and PvPers/don't support BoE. If you play attention you will find out that i SUPPORT BoE even though i'm a pvp player. I just acknowlge that the people that disagreed with me had a valid point.
"many" means you also need weak items, it don't mean you can replace the high end good ones. It means you need both.
And if they don't put a system to reward pvp players BoE can be extremely burdening even if it only appears in very few items.
Sorry but i just think i allways played in a different server then you. I allways found alot of bms both in PvMa nd in PvP. The difference is that i also find friends doing pvp while people on pvm barely talk to each other in open rooms because they are to buzy rushing the game like humam bots.
Yeah agree but i dunno what teleports have to with this subject O.o