The problem with WoW is the Try-Out accounts. Blizzard needs to have as many players as possible to play the game, cause WoW is very addictive. And what is a better way then a 10 day free trial. To bad it's also being used by gold sellers.
As far as your "solution" I doubt it will work. Gold sellers will always find a way in. That's just the way things go these days. There is only one simple solution and that is to stop buy items and gold from them. But that isn't going to happen.
My advise. Don't think about it to much and focus on the game itself. I understand that in Diablo II it's very annoying cause your whole screen is full of spam. But they will fix it in Diablo III I'm sure.
Hi, thanks for the reply
I'm not under the assumption that such a change would stop item sellers. Of-course not.
But what it would do, instantly put an end to public solicitation which would go a long way to stopping their harmful impact on the game economy. The only people buying from them are those who actively seek them out. But it becomes a much bigger situation when new players or casual players who make up a huge part of the population, are constantly seeing messages in chat and whisper saying stuff like "D2CART! Buy all the best items for under $5!"
Problem?
For the last 6-7 years, join any D2 game and as soon as you hit the lobby or any channel, you immidetely start seeing spam from companies selling D2 items for cash. They whisper you in games, they whisper you in channels, they spam in channels etc
It really hurts the game economy when you have these companies who BOT (or use chinese farmers like in WoW), selling items to players.
Solution
Very simple idea.
When you purchase a diablo 3 account, you should only be allowed to make one account (with a increased amount of characters available per account: something like a maximum of 30 characters per account. No one is realistically going to have more than 30 characters)
This won't stop people who wanna go and research on the internet places to buy items, but it will definitely put an end to open soliciting. These companies won't be able to spam channels or spam games or whisper people advertising their items
Blizz should include a "report" function directly in game. You just "Print screen" while in game, click that button, and submit it. And it will directly be sent to blizzard where they can instantly ban the account of the character who is associated with that game selling/solicitiation.
They won't be able to advertise so openly in game if everytime they do, they get reported and $40 is down the tube because they need a new CD-Key. The cost of advertising becomes too high.
A ranged class (probably the unannounced) for my first playthrough b/c their more fun to play in pve mode. Then later in a few months ill make a melee class for my pvp character
dude, you're talking crap, and you know it. that type of community you describe is perhaps 10 or 15% (TOPS!) of the PvP players, the rest is composed of little kids who like to talk crap all day, or idiotic PvPers/PKers who can only get their rocks off by belittling other people.
I don't give a crap about the "idiotic pvper/pker". They are irrelevant. They are not the community who is still playing diablo 10 years after release.
And is FAR more than "10 or 15%". You talk very confidently for a guy who i'm starting to quickly realize knows jack sh*t about the game
How arrogant of you to declare "well only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated."
And then as a long time PVP'er, when I tell you one of the main reasons why PVP is so popular, you can't even take the highroad on that, and still want to bully through your bullsh*t some more.
well, only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated.
What you think PVP'er spend their time eyeballing each other down and talking smack?
The social aspect of it is 80% of why people like PVP.
PvP'ers have their own private channels, private games, private forums etc. It literally is a tight knit community.
On any given day in a palapk game, we'd be sitting around chatting all night while other PvP'ers float in and out of the game. And almost every person who joins (random people out of the thousands in palapk in those days), everyone in the game would greet them by name. "Sup Mike" "Hey Marco" etc etc
Thats what Diablo PVP is about. Hanging out with people you see every day in dueling games, and who quickly become your friends. The trading and gearing up for PVP is just the fuel which keeps people interested and frequenting the same channels and games. The social aspect is the natural consequence of playing with the same people so often. If your a PVPer, you log onto D2, instantly join whatever private game is common knowledge among pvpers, and youll find the games packed all the time. Duel everyone in the game for fun, then chat away about life and everything in between
Rare item build up hurts PVE'ers because it waters down the game over time. Take the best bows (other than a few crafted) in the game for many years (buriza/eaglehorn/windy). As time goes by, more and more and more people find those bows, so they begin to build up. The more of them that are found, the less valuable they become. Several years in they are relatively cheap, such that nearly every Zon is carrying them
Same thing with the best rare shield (stormshield)
That hurts PVE because the game is not designed to be tackled by parties of players decked out in full rare gear. It watens down the PVE experience making it easier
And i'm assuming PVE'ers enjoy challenges. Thats why rare item build up hurts PVE'ers. (It doesn't really affect PVP'ers because PVP a weapon with 2% more damage is a huge advantage in PVP, but irrelevant in PVE. So as items pool up in the game, it just means the bar for what is elite pvp gear shifts upward with it because your facing other players). Baal doesn't get stronger depending on how many rares are currently in the game
i think you just antagonised the few supporters you had on this thread. a few pages back, they were screaming that D2 PvP was all about skill.
Ofcourse its about skill. But its not the same type of skill which lends itself to things such as arena's or pvp rewards. It skill based on how well you can custom-tailor your characters gear to match your stat points. An infinitely flexible process if you know what your doing. And skill based on knowledge about what really are the best items in the game.
Knowing when you should break the bank and trade everything you have to get that cheesy looking yellow sword which does half the damage of the rares everyone else has simply because you know the mechanics of why that sword is better with your class in terms of frame-rate of attack speed and such. Knowing how to figure out why your paladin zealot is losing to another zealot when he seems to have the same gear as you. Thats the whole fun of pvp in hack-and-slash games, and what determines the skill
But its not skill based in the sense of whoever has the best timing and reflexes wins the fight. Only time that was ever true was in amazon duels when people used to maphack and knowing how to aim guided missile arrows using maphack was a cat and mouse game between amazons.
Other than that, two teleporting sorc or whirlwinding barbarians who have been pvp'ing for are pretty much identical in how much their skill affects the fight. Leave alone java-zons , paladins, and fury druids who basically point and click on each other, and watch as the characters pound each other, until one person's dmg/leech/lethalstrike wins them the duel. It comes down to the skill of the player before the fight even started
How do you know that it is not based on fighting skill. Have you played it?
I'm also guessing that any form of general reward would only be given if you use some form of matchmaking, otherwise it would be abused. Betting or similar things would work just fine since they are optional and a part of a deal. Both parts know what they are doing and can choose to not risk anything if they think that their opponents gear is too good.
Also, there is no stat point customization in Diablo 3.
For the answer, read what I wrote in the few sentences after the portion you quoted
PVE enjoyment while I experience the game for the first time. Relish the story and adventure. Play through a few different characters.
Then PVE for 2 or 3 more months until I build up a bit of item wealth.
Then I hope into the PVP trading scene, and for the next 10 years I PVP to my hearts content, or until I'm forced to quit b/c the game is eating up too much of my time
Can't stand PVE after i've already experienced the game, lore, story, and beat the bosses a few times. Bores me to tears
*
Diablo PvP'ers don't need rewards and gimicks to enjoy themselves. On any given day, join one of the popular dueling games and watch the people happily running around the fields outside act 1 chatting about anything and everything with one another while they take turns dueling.
All we want is for our trade system not to get butchered.
In my opinion, the best option would be a delayed soul-binding system.
Something like, on January 1'st of every year - all high end items in peoples inventories/characters will get soul bound permanently
What this allows is basically a full year of free and open trading. But the annual sever wide soul-bind of rare items will ensure that they never build up. Because every year on Jan1st, there are zero rares floating around in the market. Then over the year they begin to slowly build up again.
Ofcourse for PVP'ers, we would prefer no soul binding ever. But that doesn't address the problem of rares pooling up, which harms PVE'ers. So a compromise is to meet each other half way with something like the system I just mentioned.
I appreciate that the conversation has now seemed to have switched to something more constructive.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill. You have to know your class skills inside out, and know all the enemy class skills inside out. My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded. But that is not a knock on diablo. I enjoyed my Diablo pvp years 10x more than I enjoyed WoW's pvp, despite the fact that I did very well in arenas
Mainly because WoW is a hamsterwheel. You'll never do well unless you are willing to put in endless hours a day farming honor, dungeons and arena points just to stay with the latest rewards. And at the end of the day, every pvper is decked out in virtually the same gear. Boring
There was a psychology study done several years back involving pre-school kids. The children were given 1 hour "free time" every day, and given access to coloring books and crayons. All the kids spent the entire hour happily coloring to their hearts delight for weeks
Then the experimenters began awarding the children Gold Stars depending on how much they colored.
Then a few days later, the experimenters stopped handing out stars for the coloring sessions. Very quickly, the children who had once loved to color, suddenly didn't have the interest in it anymore. None of them spent that hour of free time coloring anymore
How does this relate to PvP and even PvE? When you give fixed target rewards for something people enjoyed doing, they get tunnel vision and view the activity as a chore that must be done to get the reward. The activity loses its intrinsic enjoyability, to the same person who was happily enjoying it without rewards prior.
This doesn't apply to magic finding because magic finding is an interirely different phenomena (namely magic finding taps into the natural enjoyment we get from gambling and games of chance)
Another thing which people haven't considered is the issue of those annoying online item sellers.
In WoW blizzard eliminated it by making virtually all gear bind on pick up.
Try to imagine a scenario where "top end" items in diablo are bind on equip. The Chinese farmers are going to have a bonanza.
But that is a secondary issue to the ones that concern me the most.
Overall though, I don't know what I was expecting from an internet forum. Maybe the slick design of diablo.fans website, and relative slow moving forum made me assume some kind of more sophisticated mature gamer.
To be quite frank, some of the PVE'ers commenting here are either
a) Complete idiots, Are woefully ignorant about the intricacies of what made diablo work. (not surprising considering PVP'ers have always been the largest community of long-term players of Diablo 2 in its old age. Whether you know or care to admit this is up to you)
c) Are indeed well informed, but simply to selfish to acknowledge the issues raised here about irreversible BOE and what it will do to the entire fun of what Diablo PVP is about
Normally I would never start bad-mouthing people, but the sheer condacending attitude of PVE'ers in this thread has pushed me to it.
Completely ignore the issues raised, and try to address them with snarky comments like "Oh NO! Don't tell me Binding is going to force PVP'ers to actually play the game!", as if PVP'ers jumped into diablo, and went straight to dueling. Every PVP'er began as a PVE'er, enjoyed and appreciated the beautiful game of Diablo, and only began PVP'ing when the repetitive nature of PVE became boring. The other gamer's who had experienced and enjoyed the game and then got bored, simply quit the game and left. While others turned to PVP and kept supporting the Diablo community for years and years to come
Then you have these childish PVE'ers who arrogantly think the only voice that matters is theirs.
0
0
0
I would like nothing more than to find Gheed somewhere outside town in Diablo 3 and kill that bastard
For years I've had to listen to his snarky sarcasm while I gambled for items
0
Hi, thanks for the reply
I'm not under the assumption that such a change would stop item sellers. Of-course not.
But what it would do, instantly put an end to public solicitation which would go a long way to stopping their harmful impact on the game economy. The only people buying from them are those who actively seek them out. But it becomes a much bigger situation when new players or casual players who make up a huge part of the population, are constantly seeing messages in chat and whisper saying stuff like "D2CART! Buy all the best items for under $5!"
0
For the last 6-7 years, join any D2 game and as soon as you hit the lobby or any channel, you immidetely start seeing spam from companies selling D2 items for cash. They whisper you in games, they whisper you in channels, they spam in channels etc
It really hurts the game economy when you have these companies who BOT (or use chinese farmers like in WoW), selling items to players.
Solution
Very simple idea.
When you purchase a diablo 3 account, you should only be allowed to make one account (with a increased amount of characters available per account: something like a maximum of 30 characters per account. No one is realistically going to have more than 30 characters)
This won't stop people who wanna go and research on the internet places to buy items, but it will definitely put an end to open soliciting. These companies won't be able to spam channels or spam games or whisper people advertising their items
Blizz should include a "report" function directly in game. You just "Print screen" while in game, click that button, and submit it. And it will directly be sent to blizzard where they can instantly ban the account of the character who is associated with that game selling/solicitiation.
They won't be able to advertise so openly in game if everytime they do, they get reported and $40 is down the tube because they need a new CD-Key. The cost of advertising becomes too high.
Thoughts?
0
0
I don't give a crap about the "idiotic pvper/pker". They are irrelevant. They are not the community who is still playing diablo 10 years after release.
And is FAR more than "10 or 15%". You talk very confidently for a guy who i'm starting to quickly realize knows jack sh*t about the game
How arrogant of you to declare "well only to a point. i think the #1 reason to play PvE is 'fun', especially if it's co-op. yeah, it might not be the most challenging thing in the world, but i'll take good fun with mates over a good challenge against strangers any day. i think competitiveness is overrated."
And then as a long time PVP'er, when I tell you one of the main reasons why PVP is so popular, you can't even take the highroad on that, and still want to bully through your bullsh*t some more.
0
What you think PVP'er spend their time eyeballing each other down and talking smack?
The social aspect of it is 80% of why people like PVP.
PvP'ers have their own private channels, private games, private forums etc. It literally is a tight knit community.
On any given day in a palapk game, we'd be sitting around chatting all night while other PvP'ers float in and out of the game. And almost every person who joins (random people out of the thousands in palapk in those days), everyone in the game would greet them by name. "Sup Mike" "Hey Marco" etc etc
Thats what Diablo PVP is about. Hanging out with people you see every day in dueling games, and who quickly become your friends. The trading and gearing up for PVP is just the fuel which keeps people interested and frequenting the same channels and games. The social aspect is the natural consequence of playing with the same people so often. If your a PVPer, you log onto D2, instantly join whatever private game is common knowledge among pvpers, and youll find the games packed all the time. Duel everyone in the game for fun, then chat away about life and everything in between
0
Rare item build up hurts PVE'ers because it waters down the game over time. Take the best bows (other than a few crafted) in the game for many years (buriza/eaglehorn/windy). As time goes by, more and more and more people find those bows, so they begin to build up. The more of them that are found, the less valuable they become. Several years in they are relatively cheap, such that nearly every Zon is carrying them
Same thing with the best rare shield (stormshield)
That hurts PVE because the game is not designed to be tackled by parties of players decked out in full rare gear. It watens down the PVE experience making it easier
And i'm assuming PVE'ers enjoy challenges. Thats why rare item build up hurts PVE'ers. (It doesn't really affect PVP'ers because PVP a weapon with 2% more damage is a huge advantage in PVP, but irrelevant in PVE. So as items pool up in the game, it just means the bar for what is elite pvp gear shifts upward with it because your facing other players). Baal doesn't get stronger depending on how many rares are currently in the game
Ofcourse its about skill. But its not the same type of skill which lends itself to things such as arena's or pvp rewards. It skill based on how well you can custom-tailor your characters gear to match your stat points. An infinitely flexible process if you know what your doing. And skill based on knowledge about what really are the best items in the game.
Knowing when you should break the bank and trade everything you have to get that cheesy looking yellow sword which does half the damage of the rares everyone else has simply because you know the mechanics of why that sword is better with your class in terms of frame-rate of attack speed and such. Knowing how to figure out why your paladin zealot is losing to another zealot when he seems to have the same gear as you. Thats the whole fun of pvp in hack-and-slash games, and what determines the skill
But its not skill based in the sense of whoever has the best timing and reflexes wins the fight. Only time that was ever true was in amazon duels when people used to maphack and knowing how to aim guided missile arrows using maphack was a cat and mouse game between amazons.
Other than that, two teleporting sorc or whirlwinding barbarians who have been pvp'ing for are pretty much identical in how much their skill affects the fight. Leave alone java-zons , paladins, and fury druids who basically point and click on each other, and watch as the characters pound each other, until one person's dmg/leech/lethalstrike wins them the duel. It comes down to the skill of the player before the fight even started
0
For the answer, read what I wrote in the few sentences after the portion you quoted
0
PVE enjoyment while I experience the game for the first time. Relish the story and adventure. Play through a few different characters.
Then PVE for 2 or 3 more months until I build up a bit of item wealth.
Then I hope into the PVP trading scene, and for the next 10 years I PVP to my hearts content, or until I'm forced to quit b/c the game is eating up too much of my time
Can't stand PVE after i've already experienced the game, lore, story, and beat the bosses a few times. Bores me to tears
0
Diablo PvP'ers don't need rewards and gimicks to enjoy themselves. On any given day, join one of the popular dueling games and watch the people happily running around the fields outside act 1 chatting about anything and everything with one another while they take turns dueling.
All we want is for our trade system not to get butchered.
In my opinion, the best option would be a delayed soul-binding system.
Something like, on January 1'st of every year - all high end items in peoples inventories/characters will get soul bound permanently
What this allows is basically a full year of free and open trading. But the annual sever wide soul-bind of rare items will ensure that they never build up. Because every year on Jan1st, there are zero rares floating around in the market. Then over the year they begin to slowly build up again.
Ofcourse for PVP'ers, we would prefer no soul binding ever. But that doesn't address the problem of rares pooling up, which harms PVE'ers. So a compromise is to meet each other half way with something like the system I just mentioned.
0
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill. You have to know your class skills inside out, and know all the enemy class skills inside out. My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded. But that is not a knock on diablo. I enjoyed my Diablo pvp years 10x more than I enjoyed WoW's pvp, despite the fact that I did very well in arenas
Mainly because WoW is a hamsterwheel. You'll never do well unless you are willing to put in endless hours a day farming honor, dungeons and arena points just to stay with the latest rewards. And at the end of the day, every pvper is decked out in virtually the same gear. Boring
There was a psychology study done several years back involving pre-school kids. The children were given 1 hour "free time" every day, and given access to coloring books and crayons. All the kids spent the entire hour happily coloring to their hearts delight for weeks
Then the experimenters began awarding the children Gold Stars depending on how much they colored.
Then a few days later, the experimenters stopped handing out stars for the coloring sessions. Very quickly, the children who had once loved to color, suddenly didn't have the interest in it anymore. None of them spent that hour of free time coloring anymore
How does this relate to PvP and even PvE? When you give fixed target rewards for something people enjoyed doing, they get tunnel vision and view the activity as a chore that must be done to get the reward. The activity loses its intrinsic enjoyability, to the same person who was happily enjoying it without rewards prior.
This doesn't apply to magic finding because magic finding is an interirely different phenomena (namely magic finding taps into the natural enjoyment we get from gambling and games of chance)
0
0
In WoW blizzard eliminated it by making virtually all gear bind on pick up.
Try to imagine a scenario where "top end" items in diablo are bind on equip. The Chinese farmers are going to have a bonanza.
But that is a secondary issue to the ones that concern me the most.
Overall though, I don't know what I was expecting from an internet forum. Maybe the slick design of diablo.fans website, and relative slow moving forum made me assume some kind of more sophisticated mature gamer.
To be quite frank, some of the PVE'ers commenting here are either
a) Complete idiots,
c) Are indeed well informed, but simply to selfish to acknowledge the issues raised here about irreversible BOE and what it will do to the entire fun of what Diablo PVP is about
Normally I would never start bad-mouthing people, but the sheer condacending attitude of PVE'ers in this thread has pushed me to it.
Completely ignore the issues raised, and try to address them with snarky comments like "Oh NO! Don't tell me Binding is going to force PVP'ers to actually play the game!", as if PVP'ers jumped into diablo, and went straight to dueling. Every PVP'er began as a PVE'er, enjoyed and appreciated the beautiful game of Diablo, and only began PVP'ing when the repetitive nature of PVE became boring. The other gamer's who had experienced and enjoyed the game and then got bored, simply quit the game and left. While others turned to PVP and kept supporting the Diablo community for years and years to come
Then you have these childish PVE'ers who arrogantly think the only voice that matters is theirs.