Well, I'd really like to know the magical formula to prevent farming bosses that is not in this topic.
Its ALL about restricting the player and pointing him in an other direction. You can't prevent without restrictions, unless you make it useless, which is worse.
You answer to your question : magical formula is "pointing him in an other direction."
It's doesn't restricted players and it prevent excesive farming.
I'll tell you one thing - there were times when I would go through an entire difficulty level without finding any golds or greens except on boss battles. I have to tell you that at times like this I was so mad and disappointed :mad: that my only relief was to do 10 or 20 boss runs and get my remedy.
The drop in d3 will be aranged, so we'll no more need to do boss runs to find good items.
Quote from dorgeismydog »
The server, once every hour spawns this "BOSS GAME" in which, the first 8 people to be the quickest to get in, get in. Weather the 8 are able to complete it or not, once the bosses all die, or the people all leave the game, its done untill the next hour.
I don't like your idea. only 8 players !!!!!!!!!! Do you know how many people who will play d3 ??
Sorry but im not reading all those recent age-long posts, so sorry if its alreayd been said.
IF this were to be implemented in ANY way, heres the only thing I could see as a possibility:
Each boss only spawns once every hour per difficulty, after youve defeated them all once (in which, they will appear in any game YOU make). BUT the thing would be, that on the top of each hour, a random BOSS game would be created by the server itself, not a character. The server, once every hour spawns this "BOSS GAME" in which, the first 8 people to be the quickest to get in, get in. Weather the 8 are able to complete it or not, once the bosses all die, or the people all leave the game, its done untill the next hour.
I think this would add a fun element to what you were looking for, while making it more reasonable. That way everyone really has there fair shot at doing it, and if you miss it, you have another shot in an hour.
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Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
The whole idea of only killing bosses once a day/week/month is just not working for me even if I take everything I know about D2 out the window. The fact is Diablo is a loot based game and Boss runs would be the most effecitve way to get loot. Unless they give us somthing more rewarding or fun to do. Personally I like killing bosses I really loved when the boss was way to hard for me to kill alone but I did it via health pot restacks. Then after I leveled up I'd go back and beat him to a bloodly corpse.
Now with D2 in mind I never knew anyone that minded boss farming. Most people did it to eat time or to try and find that epic last set peice/awsome sword they could find or have anythiing to trade for it. I loot farm for duels as I've always seen it as why get the gear if you can kill you buds with those nice items.
Things D3 could do different that would make boss runs more rewarding and less of farm situation.
Nerf the crap out of telle/other movement spells
Waypoints not being close to bosses
Respawn of Monsters ie.You gotta rekill to get to that boss if you didnt drop a portal
Make the bosses more challenging
Randomly spawned unique bosses over the world ie.WoW's Dragons(this is just an example)
Fact is limiting runs is just crazy it was crazy when WoW did it and it will be crazy is D3 dose it to.
I'm not bothering here if people just miss the main points and go on thinking that only doing boss runs is a good thing.
Sure, stick to doing the same thing all over the damn time if thats what you want, I could freakin' care less, really. D3 will be the same, I mean, one thing will be most effective (thats boss runs) and everyone will be doing boss runs. Thats your idea of fun? What a joke.
Also, lets ignore the fact that there are other things than just doing stupid boss runs that could give us loots and make it worth playing. But the hell is the point? We can do boss runs! YEAH! JOY!
Sorry but I have to give you a little beating for that. A major part of the Diablosness of Diablo is collecting loot and the excitment of getting a unique item or putting together an awesome set.
Looking for items just by playing the game is a tough and sometimes very frustrating job. I have played Diablo 2 over many times and completed hell with every single character and with some even twice. I'll tell you one thing - [B]there were times when I would go through an entire difficulty level without finding any golds or greens except on boss battles[/B]. I have to tell you that at times like this I was so mad and disappointed :mad: that my only relief was to do 10 or 20 boss runs and get my remedy.
The same thing goes for runes. If not for the Countess I would never have collected all the runes (because I never trade probably).
I hope you see my point. Even doing the same thing over and over again can be enjoyable for some people. It is for me and I dont feel like an idiot when I do it. :P:P
Let me clarify, (at first I wanted to literally say idiot, but I refrained because I don't want an e-mail saying I shouldn't flame :D)
As I said in my recent post: Diablo is my favorite game of all time, but when I go on the forums and discuss its flaws, I always wonder why I even liked the game in the first place. I always found it very strange how Diablo was literally THE game I was obsessed with, but there are hundreds of flaws with it. In the past 400 posts I've made, I always pointed out that the economy sucked, the leveling was repetitive and annoying..but in the end, I still loved the game.
I wrote that there is, and should be more to a game than JUST boss runs. I said, "why the hell would you play, if you just play to boss run". After that I made another post stating that you shouldn't think of new ideas like you would with DII. DIII is a brand new game, they changed practically every mechanic; economy, cool downs, 3-d, TP's, dueling etc...
To address what you wrote, you just proved my point
"I would go through an entire difficulty level without finding any golds or greens except on boss battles[/B]. I have to tell you that at times like this I was so mad and disappointed :mad: that my only relief was to do 10 or 20 boss runs and get my remedy. "
You just proved another flaw in the game! But when I came up with this idea, I assumed they would fix this. Meaning, Boss's aren't the only "things" that give good items. Like I said, if DIII is going to be DII with this mechanic, then I would want it discarded (but if thats the case, i wouldn't buy it!!)
I hate to just say I'm right and your wrong, so I will agree with you on that...Sometimes boss runs are fun, but that also proves my idea to work! lol.. If once a month, once a week..etc.. you can go boss running a few times, that would still allow you to get superior items, and not abuse it!
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Well, I'd really like to know the magical formula to prevent farming bosses that is not in this topic.
Its ALL about restricting the player and pointing him in an other direction. You can't prevent without restrictions, unless you make it useless, which is worse.
Thanks for writing that... I was just about to write that.
People think that in a game, they should be able to do anything they want. What makes a game interesting is the rules that are set to challenge you, and prevent exploits. One example I could give you is rushing. Honestly, if you could go straight to baal runs on level 1 (which I know you can), you would! I'll play the strictly by the story every once and a while, but normally you would just skip it. Without forcing you to go through andy, duriel..meph..diablo..etc. you would literally join a game in hell and become level 30 in 5 mins..
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
The whole idea of only killing bosses once a day/week/month is just not working for me even if I take everything I know about D2 out the window. The fact is Diablo is a loot based game and Boss runs would be the most effecitve way to get loot. Unless they give us somthing more rewarding or fun to do. Personally I like killing bosses I really loved when the boss was way to hard for me to kill alone but I did it via health pot restacks. Then after I leveled up I'd go back and beat him to a bloodly corpse.
Now with D2 in mind I never knew anyone that minded boss farming. Most people did it to eat time or to try and find that epic last set peice/awsome sword they could find or have anythiing to trade for it. I loot farm for duels as I've always seen it as why get the gear if you can kill you buds with those nice items.
Things D3 could do different that would make boss runs more rewarding and less of farm situation.
Nerf the crap out of telle/other movement spells
Waypoints not being close to bosses
Respawn of Monsters ie.You gotta rekill to get to that boss if you didnt drop a portal
Make the bosses more challenging
Randomly spawned unique bosses over the world ie.WoW's Dragons(this is just an example)
Fact is limiting runs is just crazy it was crazy when WoW did it and it will be crazy is D3 dose it to.
First, I have to thank SFjake for being one of the few open minded people in here :thumbsup:.
Second, I've played games where you would be in "combat", and then if you TP out of there and return, the monsters re-appear. It is very unsatisfying, and annoying...trust me
I've said this many times, but things like stacking 500 potions, and spending literally 10 minutes reorganizing them is another flaw in the game. getting the mindset of DII out of you mind, you should understand that if Blizz goes through with what they said, then minibosses, and high ranking units would drop good items..or could at least..
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
My main issue with boss runs is that they essentially mean nobody can get anything good without doing a boss run. And casual players like me hate them and never do them. So we end up lower since the notorious brainfrozen guys can do the same thing all over and over again without being bothered by it.
It's not a bad idea but I still stand more by something like making the boss less productive when you kill him too often. But when you tweak the boss, you have to tweak everything else. More varied ways of getting XP and loot is what I'd like to see.
Quote from "JTEman" »
there were times when I would go through an entire difficulty level without finding any golds or greens except on boss battles. I have to tell you that at times like this I was so mad and disappointed :mad: that my only relief was to do 10 or 20 boss runs and get my remedy.
I think a big point of his post that you should get your head out of DII and recall that alternatives ways of managing things such as loot are possible.
Seems to me that what you're saying simply points that the difficulty should give more stuff, not that you should be forced into redundant boss runs to advance.
My main issue with boss runs is that they essentially mean nobody can get anything good without doing a boss run. And casual players like me hate them and never do them. So we end up lower since the notorious brainfrozen guys can do the same thing all over and over again without being bothered by it.
It's not a bad idea but I still stand more by something like making the boss less productive when you kill him too often. But when you tweak the boss, you have to tweak everything else. More varied ways of getting XP and loot is what I'd like to see.
I think a big point of his post that you should get your head out of DII and recall that alternatives ways of managing things such as loot are possible.
Seems to me that what you're saying simply points that the difficulty should give more stuff, not that you should be forced into redundant boss runs to advance.
I think he is just saying that it was uncommon to find good items and since he new that his best chance at of finding items worth keeping was by doing boss runs, he did just that.
However, I don't agree with his statement because it was pretty easy to find socketed gear that you use to make a rune word or sell. The thing is that people are often only looking for runes or popular uniques/set items and overlook the items that aren't as popular, but may still sell.
I'm all for changes and love the changes that blizz has made to make the game more fun. However the idea of limiting how many boss runz you can do in a day/week/or month is simply the dumbist idea I've ever heard. Even if doing boss runz net you the most loot for you time and only being able to do a boss run via monthly will only mean people will just sit their watching the clock/clandar for their next big score.
Im all for change I've listed several ideas that would make boss runz not the only game intown. So you should know that Im not saying boss runz are the be all of the game. Im simply saying that limiting the boss runs is simply not a good idea.
Im one to specualte and moan and groan for what we want too, but sadly, the best we have is waiting for the release of the final information for us to gaggle on lol
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Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
Imo the solution is the quest system. Give higher chances for good drops if the boss you kill is part of a quest. So you might get a quest to kill boss Y, next time a quest to kill boss X etc.
Sure, you could just farm boss Y over and over, but the drop chances would be worse.
It could even be mixed up more. Quests to kill boss Y in a certain way (time limit, higher difficulty of the boss, kill him with your bare hands (rawr) or whatever) for the bonus drop chance to trigger. E.g. stuff to throw some variation into the farming.
How about a slightly refined idea? (and sorry if this has already been proposed/argued)
What about making the boss respawn time something much shorter such as 1/hour. This would be because you don't want to take away from players that like to play alone and thus wouldn't have the benefit of joining a game with someone elses boss run.
Making it once per hour also means that the respawn will be happening often enough that the players won't stop playing the game entirely, and also gives you time to do other things in the meantime, such as running every single boss in the game! Something thats not done very often, but should be encouraged.
Quote from "Shadout" »
It could even be mixed up more. Quests to kill boss Y in a certain way (time limit, higher difficulty of the boss, kill him with your bare hands (rawr) or whatever) for the bonus drop chance to trigger. E.g. stuff to throw some variation into the farming.
But the thing is, to whoever says "if you don't want to do boss runs, then don't do it", If the game gives you an exploit, you will nearly always use it (depending on how much it ruins the game. For example: Cod WAW had a ridiculous amount of "under the map" glitches, and even though I hated them, everyone used them. Literally half the team was fighting for the area to get underground, and the other half was shooting and throwing grenades under the map.
The point is, restrictions guide us in a game, obviously too many limit the game, but by allowing us to farm bosses unlimited, they HAVE TO lower the drop chances by a lot. So instead of having a 1% chance, I'll have a .025% to get a SOJ. Also, they have to lower the amount of XP you receive from the boss. This takes away from boss runs. I think that the boss run you do for the quest should give you good drops no matter what, but after that, it goes under the farming category.
Boss runs should be restricted in some way, whether it is by giving less superior items, and less xp (other than the first attempt). By giving unlimited boss farming, it won't only influence XP and item accumulation, but it would also influence the game "economy" by introducing a lot of items into the game (good or bad).
The only way I see it to prevent boss farming without restricting it, is by lowering the amount of XP and the number of good drops that bosses give you. It has to be more worth while killing monsters in a random cave than repeating bosses. But then again, I still want to be able to do boss runs and benefit from it; the fact is, that since bosses are harder to kill, they should give more xp and items than any other monster. This is the reason that it should be restricted! To allow you to benefit from the bosses, and not exploit it!!
Quote from "Odin" »
Stupid idea. With Blizz removing tons of features that made D2 outstanding theres not much left for long time motivation. I don't want to be forced to do quests all over again, they should be optional at best.
If you don't like boss runs simple don't do them!
Killing a boss in a certain way is achievement crap you know the thing that finally killed wow for a lot of players.
Without customizable stats, crap like boe and introducing of "class sets" this would not turn out well...
Also, if everyone is defending boss runs/farming, then why would you oppose achievements when you would be at the boss every moment of your play time??
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Your so called achievement crap killed WoW for players because it was completely pointless. There is a huge difference between..
-Beat a boss in 3 minutes and get an achievement
-Beat a boss in 3 minutes and get bigger loot
Thats WoW hardmodes!
I really like achievements in WoW however...
But I agree, Diablo is about the loot, doing stuff in special ways for anything beside loot in D3 would be somewhat pointless.
Still, its not about forcing people to quest, or forcing them not to farm a boss (respawn timers would force them though). Its about giving them options.
Farming a boss is the easy/fast thing (mindless repeating of the same action), so to make other options viable, they must offer better drops. Thats it.
You answer to your question : magical formula is "pointing him in an other direction."
It's doesn't restricted players and it prevent excesive farming.
The drop in d3 will be aranged, so we'll no more need to do boss runs to find good items.
I don't like your idea. only 8 players !!!!!!!!!! Do you know how many people who will play d3 ??
IF this were to be implemented in ANY way, heres the only thing I could see as a possibility:
Each boss only spawns once every hour per difficulty, after youve defeated them all once (in which, they will appear in any game YOU make). BUT the thing would be, that on the top of each hour, a random BOSS game would be created by the server itself, not a character. The server, once every hour spawns this "BOSS GAME" in which, the first 8 people to be the quickest to get in, get in. Weather the 8 are able to complete it or not, once the bosses all die, or the people all leave the game, its done untill the next hour.
I think this would add a fun element to what you were looking for, while making it more reasonable. That way everyone really has there fair shot at doing it, and if you miss it, you have another shot in an hour.
Now with D2 in mind I never knew anyone that minded boss farming. Most people did it to eat time or to try and find that epic last set peice/awsome sword they could find or have anythiing to trade for it. I loot farm for duels as I've always seen it as why get the gear if you can kill you buds with those nice items.
Things D3 could do different that would make boss runs more rewarding and less of farm situation.
Nerf the crap out of telle/other movement spells
Waypoints not being close to bosses
Respawn of Monsters ie.You gotta rekill to get to that boss if you didnt drop a portal
Make the bosses more challenging
Randomly spawned unique bosses over the world ie.WoW's Dragons(this is just an example)
Fact is limiting runs is just crazy it was crazy when WoW did it and it will be crazy is D3 dose it to.
Sure, stick to doing the same thing all over the damn time if thats what you want, I could freakin' care less, really. D3 will be the same, I mean, one thing will be most effective (thats boss runs) and everyone will be doing boss runs. Thats your idea of fun? What a joke.
Also, lets ignore the fact that there are other things than just doing stupid boss runs that could give us loots and make it worth playing. But the hell is the point? We can do boss runs! YEAH! JOY!
Let me clarify, (at first I wanted to literally say idiot, but I refrained because I don't want an e-mail saying I shouldn't flame :D)
As I said in my recent post: Diablo is my favorite game of all time, but when I go on the forums and discuss its flaws, I always wonder why I even liked the game in the first place. I always found it very strange how Diablo was literally THE game I was obsessed with, but there are hundreds of flaws with it. In the past 400 posts I've made, I always pointed out that the economy sucked, the leveling was repetitive and annoying..but in the end, I still loved the game.
I wrote that there is, and should be more to a game than JUST boss runs. I said, "why the hell would you play, if you just play to boss run". After that I made another post stating that you shouldn't think of new ideas like you would with DII. DIII is a brand new game, they changed practically every mechanic; economy, cool downs, 3-d, TP's, dueling etc...
To address what you wrote, you just proved my point
"I would go through an entire difficulty level without finding any golds or greens except on boss battles[/B]. I have to tell you that at times like this I was so mad and disappointed :mad: that my only relief was to do 10 or 20 boss runs and get my remedy. "
You just proved another flaw in the game! But when I came up with this idea, I assumed they would fix this. Meaning, Boss's aren't the only "things" that give good items. Like I said, if DIII is going to be DII with this mechanic, then I would want it discarded (but if thats the case, i wouldn't buy it!!)
I hate to just say I'm right and your wrong, so I will agree with you on that...Sometimes boss runs are fun, but that also proves my idea to work! lol.. If once a month, once a week..etc.. you can go boss running a few times, that would still allow you to get superior items, and not abuse it!
Thanks for writing that... I was just about to write that.
People think that in a game, they should be able to do anything they want. What makes a game interesting is the rules that are set to challenge you, and prevent exploits. One example I could give you is rushing. Honestly, if you could go straight to baal runs on level 1 (which I know you can), you would! I'll play the strictly by the story every once and a while, but normally you would just skip it. Without forcing you to go through andy, duriel..meph..diablo..etc. you would literally join a game in hell and become level 30 in 5 mins..
First, I have to thank SFjake for being one of the few open minded people in here :thumbsup:.
Second, I've played games where you would be in "combat", and then if you TP out of there and return, the monsters re-appear. It is very unsatisfying, and annoying...trust me
I've said this many times, but things like stacking 500 potions, and spending literally 10 minutes reorganizing them is another flaw in the game. getting the mindset of DII out of you mind, you should understand that if Blizz goes through with what they said, then minibosses, and high ranking units would drop good items..or could at least..
It's not a bad idea but I still stand more by something like making the boss less productive when you kill him too often. But when you tweak the boss, you have to tweak everything else. More varied ways of getting XP and loot is what I'd like to see.
I think a big point of his post that you should get your head out of DII and recall that alternatives ways of managing things such as loot are possible.
Seems to me that what you're saying simply points that the difficulty should give more stuff, not that you should be forced into redundant boss runs to advance.
I think he is just saying that it was uncommon to find good items and since he new that his best chance at of finding items worth keeping was by doing boss runs, he did just that.
However, I don't agree with his statement because it was pretty easy to find socketed gear that you use to make a rune word or sell. The thing is that people are often only looking for runes or popular uniques/set items and overlook the items that aren't as popular, but may still sell.
Im all for change I've listed several ideas that would make boss runz not the only game intown. So you should know that Im not saying boss runz are the be all of the game. Im simply saying that limiting the boss runs is simply not a good idea.
Sure, you could just farm boss Y over and over, but the drop chances would be worse.
It could even be mixed up more. Quests to kill boss Y in a certain way (time limit, higher difficulty of the boss, kill him with your bare hands (rawr) or whatever) for the bonus drop chance to trigger. E.g. stuff to throw some variation into the farming.
What about making the boss respawn time something much shorter such as 1/hour. This would be because you don't want to take away from players that like to play alone and thus wouldn't have the benefit of joining a game with someone elses boss run.
Making it once per hour also means that the respawn will be happening often enough that the players won't stop playing the game entirely, and also gives you time to do other things in the meantime, such as running every single boss in the game! Something thats not done very often, but should be encouraged.
Actually, I really like this idea :thumbsup:
The point is, restrictions guide us in a game, obviously too many limit the game, but by allowing us to farm bosses unlimited, they HAVE TO lower the drop chances by a lot. So instead of having a 1% chance, I'll have a .025% to get a SOJ. Also, they have to lower the amount of XP you receive from the boss. This takes away from boss runs. I think that the boss run you do for the quest should give you good drops no matter what, but after that, it goes under the farming category.
Boss runs should be restricted in some way, whether it is by giving less superior items, and less xp (other than the first attempt). By giving unlimited boss farming, it won't only influence XP and item accumulation, but it would also influence the game "economy" by introducing a lot of items into the game (good or bad).
The only way I see it to prevent boss farming without restricting it, is by lowering the amount of XP and the number of good drops that bosses give you. It has to be more worth while killing monsters in a random cave than repeating bosses. But then again, I still want to be able to do boss runs and benefit from it; the fact is, that since bosses are harder to kill, they should give more xp and items than any other monster. This is the reason that it should be restricted! To allow you to benefit from the bosses, and not exploit it!!
Also, if everyone is defending boss runs/farming, then why would you oppose achievements when you would be at the boss every moment of your play time??
Your so called achievement crap killed WoW for players because it was completely pointless. There is a huge difference between..
-Beat a boss in 3 minutes and get an achievement
-Beat a boss in 3 minutes and get bigger loot
Thats WoW hardmodes!
I really like achievements in WoW however...
But I agree, Diablo is about the loot, doing stuff in special ways for anything beside loot in D3 would be somewhat pointless.
Still, its not about forcing people to quest, or forcing them not to farm a boss (respawn timers would force them though). Its about giving them options.
Farming a boss is the easy/fast thing (mindless repeating of the same action), so to make other options viable, they must offer better drops. Thats it.