The problem with dueling is that it's not much fun because there is nothing to gain. Sure you can try to get ears...but nobody really respects them, they don't mean much.
My suggestion is that there be an "ante" window similar to a trade window, that you open up before going hostile, you both enter some items in as ante, and you both have to accept each others ante (as if it were a trade), but you dont get the items until you win the duel -- and obviously, the winner gets the others persons ante without losing his ante.
nothing to gain??? I take it you've never played on HC mode, its all or nothing there.
but I like the ante Idea as well for non HC games. although if it was there I'd like it implemented as an option, and not something we're stuck with, because some people do just PvP for fun, or to measure their characters against other people's characters.
nothing to gain??? I take it you've never played on HC mode, its all or nothing there.
but I like the ante Idea as well for non HC games. although if it was there I'd like it implemented as an option, and not something we're stuck with, because some people do just PvP for fun, or to measure their characters against other people's characters.
Nope..never could play HC due to my poor internet connection. But yes, totally an optional thing...but regardless of how they did the interface, nothing would prevent you from both accepting the ante window without putting anything in. So it would totally be an optional additional thing...but a lot better than "hey..if you win..ill give you this" .... yeah right.
I like this idea, it needs a little hammering out but it sounds neat.
Maybe you could select an option in a menu (however they're going to do dueling) to where you can choose ante duel and just duel.
That way it wouldn't get too annoying popping up every time you just want to have a quick duel.
It would be fun though, give you some incentive to duel someone. Kind of like when a higher level would come in the game and say "I'll give free if you can beat me, I'll even use just my fists."
I was thinking that, if you clicked on someone, you'd have to option to "Duel with Ante", which would open the trade window (it would be clearly marked so that players did not get confused into thinking it was a regular trade).
After both putting up the items, you still keep them in your inventory (thus allowing you to gamble the shirt off your back, if you so desired). The only difference is that, after putting them up for ante, if you happen to kill the other person during this instance of the game then you would win their ante.
If one of the people left the game before dying, the ante-trade would be canceled.
Good thing you added that, I was going to ask what happens if you crash/disconnect, etc.
I think they need like a 5-10 second log out though that way if someone is losing they can't just leave to avoid having to pay up.
1) The key thing is that, due to connectivity issues, the ante-trade cannot be considered a binding agreement until one person actually kills the other. Thus, after accepting the ante, if you are still in town, you should be able to exit the game anytime you want without penalty, and the deal is off.
2) It is not desirable that the player who is about to die suddenly exits the game, in order to avoid having to pay the ante. I think your cool-down idea is a good one, if done right. The right way to do it would be, "You cannot quit within 20 seconds of taking or receiving a hostile action." A hostile action would be considered as: use of a skill by either player that inflicted damage, or was otherwise blocked/absorbed by the other player. Using a skill that completely missed the other player would not count, otherwise someone far away might prevent you from quitting the game by continuing to whack at thin-air. Now, the only way to escape is to run into town and leave the game, or run sufficiently far off into the wilderness that they lose you, you can wait, and then quit. Well, I think these options are acceptable, we can't totally trap a player in the game.
I don't think the crashing thing would work well. Then If i was loosing i could easily unplug my comp and say oops I crashed when i really didn't. I think they should have a dueling arena place and if you crash.. tough.. Most of the time you shouldn't crash.
I don't think the crashing thing would work well. Then If i was loosing i could easily unplug my comp and say oops I crashed when i really didn't. I think they should have a dueling arena place and if you crash.. tough.. Most of the time you shouldn't crash.
Yep, nobody is forcing you to duel or ante. It's all optional so in the rare case that you crash and lose, only you are to blame. As you can see we were discussing earlier, the only thing thats important is to make sure that you cannot quit out of the game as a means of protecting yourself in the event that you think you will lose -- but its not hard to come up with some rules preventing that.
I have to say that this is the first time I hear a suggestion that actually sounds good Thinking if we had that in Diablo 2... it would surely add some spice to Softcore PvP.
I don't know if Blizzard will implement that exactly, but I'm sure we are going to have something more rewarding than ears in duels.
I don't know if Blizzard will implement that exactly, but I'm sure we are going to have something more rewarding than ears in duels.
I'd like that...but I dunno what makes you so sure.
Everyone I hear multiplayer aspects mentioned by devs, they are promoting coop by cutting back on the pvp elements. Nobody seems to care about pvp.
God damn it if one of those "cool new unannounced features" is some kind of dueling arena with ante or something, I'd be pretty excited...see I dont think that they get it, the best way to cut down on unfriendly PvP is to give PvP its own proper place.
I'd like that...but I dunno what makes you so sure.
Everyone I hear multiplayer aspects mentioned by devs, they are promoting coop by cutting back on the pvp elements. Nobody seems to care about pvp.
God damn it if one of those "cool new unannounced features" is some kind of dueling arena with ante or something, I'd be pretty excited...see I dont think that they get it, the best way to cut down on unfriendly PvP is to give PvP its own proper place.
I think they don't talk much about PvP because they didn't start to work on it. Coop is being discussed alot because it's part of the campaign, so it has to be considered during the making of the acts. PvP is not part of the campaign so I guess they left that for later parts, but just because they promote coop so much doesn't mean PvP is going to be left behind, the opposite, it means it is going to be promoted as well. The aim is to make everything better. Guild Wars for example is a game that combine PvP and PvE (player vs. evironmnet) pretty good. Blizzard can do much better than that.
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someone mentioned an arena - that's a wonderful idea. i hate being bothered by people with their "wanna duel?" while i'm busy. even if i'm in town, i'm probably preoccupied with something. i've never been big on the whole dueling thing since it's not at all spontaneous, even when other people ask. people who duel are typically geared differently so that they have the advantage over other players bvut aren't necessarily capable of doing much in PVE.
i support dueling as long as there's no obvious spec or build that is specifically for PVP. what i mean is, if i can fight someone without having to change my gear or spec before standing a chace, then it's cool with me.
as far as ante goes, the values of items might be a little hard to judge right away. why not just a gold toll or something more basic? trades tend to be way off balance, so the ante thing would suffer the exact same fate...not to mention you'd have to go out and hunt for items worth dying for...just to risk losing them again? nah...not for me.
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The idea of getting a reward for proving your mettle in PvP is something I would be shocked at if Blizzard didn't include it in D3 if there will be PvP.
However, I do not think this is the optimal system. If PvP is to be part of this game, there are numerous areas to improve upon from D2, such as an arena feature or similar with ladders, comeptitions and perhaps prizes. In such an environment, dueling could easily stay as it is; an easy form of combat that is very quickly initiated but simply for testing your skills and build. Adding a trading feature on top of this would bog down the fast pace that is part of a dueling system as it is currently implemented, and with an arena or similar in place, it would fill no useful function.
Final point: Improving PvP is desirable, but it can be done in other ways.
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This actually sounds like a REALLY good idea. I would have loved to have this in D2....woulda made the game last a lot longer for me I think. Hopefully D3 will have a feature like this for dueling, and it probably will since PVP will in the end be the thing that ends up keeping the game alive on bnet like D2 is now.
I think this idea has potential. One thing that pops into mind when I think of this ante duel scenario is. How will it be handled if you are hostile to multiple players? Would it be best to make it so that you can not be attacked by other hostile players until your ante duel has been completed? What about team duels? Odd man duels? i.e. A level 90 vs. a level 70 and 75. Great potential here but many tweaks would be needed. It'd be nice to see something like this in D3 for sure.
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My suggestion is that there be an "ante" window similar to a trade window, that you open up before going hostile, you both enter some items in as ante, and you both have to accept each others ante (as if it were a trade), but you dont get the items until you win the duel -- and obviously, the winner gets the others persons ante without losing his ante.
Miniature mockup:
but I like the ante Idea as well for non HC games. although if it was there I'd like it implemented as an option, and not something we're stuck with, because some people do just PvP for fun, or to measure their characters against other people's characters.
Nope..never could play HC due to my poor internet connection. But yes, totally an optional thing...but regardless of how they did the interface, nothing would prevent you from both accepting the ante window without putting anything in. So it would totally be an optional additional thing...but a lot better than "hey..if you win..ill give you this" .... yeah right.
Maybe you could select an option in a menu (however they're going to do dueling) to where you can choose ante duel and just duel.
That way it wouldn't get too annoying popping up every time you just want to have a quick duel.
It would be fun though, give you some incentive to duel someone. Kind of like when a higher level would come in the game and say "I'll give free if you can beat me, I'll even use just my fists."
After both putting up the items, you still keep them in your inventory (thus allowing you to gamble the shirt off your back, if you so desired). The only difference is that, after putting them up for ante, if you happen to kill the other person during this instance of the game then you would win their ante.
If one of the people left the game before dying, the ante-trade would be canceled.
Good thing you added that, I was going to ask what happens if you crash/disconnect, etc.
I think they need like a 5-10 second log out though that way if someone is losing they can't just leave to avoid having to pay up.
1) The key thing is that, due to connectivity issues, the ante-trade cannot be considered a binding agreement until one person actually kills the other. Thus, after accepting the ante, if you are still in town, you should be able to exit the game anytime you want without penalty, and the deal is off.
2) It is not desirable that the player who is about to die suddenly exits the game, in order to avoid having to pay the ante. I think your cool-down idea is a good one, if done right. The right way to do it would be, "You cannot quit within 20 seconds of taking or receiving a hostile action." A hostile action would be considered as: use of a skill by either player that inflicted damage, or was otherwise blocked/absorbed by the other player. Using a skill that completely missed the other player would not count, otherwise someone far away might prevent you from quitting the game by continuing to whack at thin-air. Now, the only way to escape is to run into town and leave the game, or run sufficiently far off into the wilderness that they lose you, you can wait, and then quit. Well, I think these options are acceptable, we can't totally trap a player in the game.
Yep, nobody is forcing you to duel or ante. It's all optional so in the rare case that you crash and lose, only you are to blame. As you can see we were discussing earlier, the only thing thats important is to make sure that you cannot quit out of the game as a means of protecting yourself in the event that you think you will lose -- but its not hard to come up with some rules preventing that.
How many antes could you get from NK'ing? You suggestion is ok, but needs some nerfing. Im sure Blizzard have something in mind
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I have to say that this is the first time I hear a suggestion that actually sounds good Thinking if we had that in Diablo 2... it would surely add some spice to Softcore PvP.
I don't know if Blizzard will implement that exactly, but I'm sure we are going to have something more rewarding than ears in duels.
I'd like that...but I dunno what makes you so sure.
Everyone I hear multiplayer aspects mentioned by devs, they are promoting coop by cutting back on the pvp elements. Nobody seems to care about pvp.
God damn it if one of those "cool new unannounced features" is some kind of dueling arena with ante or something, I'd be pretty excited...see I dont think that they get it, the best way to cut down on unfriendly PvP is to give PvP its own proper place.
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I think they don't talk much about PvP because they didn't start to work on it. Coop is being discussed alot because it's part of the campaign, so it has to be considered during the making of the acts. PvP is not part of the campaign so I guess they left that for later parts, but just because they promote coop so much doesn't mean PvP is going to be left behind, the opposite, it means it is going to be promoted as well. The aim is to make everything better. Guild Wars for example is a game that combine PvP and PvE (player vs. evironmnet) pretty good. Blizzard can do much better than that.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
i support dueling as long as there's no obvious spec or build that is specifically for PVP. what i mean is, if i can fight someone without having to change my gear or spec before standing a chace, then it's cool with me.
as far as ante goes, the values of items might be a little hard to judge right away. why not just a gold toll or something more basic? trades tend to be way off balance, so the ante thing would suffer the exact same fate...not to mention you'd have to go out and hunt for items worth dying for...just to risk losing them again? nah...not for me.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
However, I do not think this is the optimal system. If PvP is to be part of this game, there are numerous areas to improve upon from D2, such as an arena feature or similar with ladders, comeptitions and perhaps prizes. In such an environment, dueling could easily stay as it is; an easy form of combat that is very quickly initiated but simply for testing your skills and build. Adding a trading feature on top of this would bog down the fast pace that is part of a dueling system as it is currently implemented, and with an arena or similar in place, it would fill no useful function.
Final point: Improving PvP is desirable, but it can be done in other ways.