Final point: Improving PvP is desirable, but it can be done in other ways.
I disagree...the fact remains that the driving factor in Diablo has always been hunting for items. Dueling in D2 sucked because when you killed a person you didnt get to take their gear. This made it pretty pointless to duel...what was the point? Nodody cared if they won or lost.
The whole point of ante'ing items is that it makes dueling a form of TRADING and GAMBLING and SHOWING-OFF all at once. A confident high level char might be willing to ante a highly valuable item vs a much lower value item when dueling a lower level char...but if that lower level char has a lot better skills/build etc, then maybe they can pull it off and be really proud of themself.
Having an Arena is not bad, but it doesnt change the situation at all from D2 -- there needs to be motiviation for PvP and the ONLY way to motivate is to have item rewards. Nobody would duel if all their equipment dropped so ante'ing is the best middle ground.
I disagree...the fact remains that the driving factor in Diablo has always been hunting for items. Dueling in D2 sucked because when you killed a person you didnt get to take their gear. This made it pretty pointless to duel...what was the point? Nodody cared if they won or lost.
The point would be for entertaining value. If that wasn't the case, then obviously the system must have been lacking in its design, and I agree with you.
However you never lost the items you found unless you played hardcore in D2, and I never did, so I never had to worry about losing items.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
The whole point of ante'ing items is that it makes dueling a form of TRADING and GAMBLING and SHOWING-OFF all at once. A confident high level char might be willing to ante a highly valuable item vs a much lower value item when dueling a lower level char...but if that lower level char has a lot better skills/build etc, then maybe they can pull it off and be really proud of themself.
Pros have to be weighed against cons. The pro of having a dueling system is that it is fast and efficient, there's no waiting. Therre is also no loss, which means you can experiment with new builds however long you wish.
If a system of aqcuiring items not on an automatic basis, but on a player-to-player basis through a personal agreement such as this, it drastically changes the pace and function of a duel. You will have to barter, which will take time and a lot of times you will probably have to decline to a duel because you do not think your opponent offers tangible benefits.
True, you're not forced to trade, but a lot of people will only duel with trades, because otherwise they won't gain anything in return.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
Having an Arena is not bad, but it doesnt change the situation at all from D2 -- there needs to be motiviation for PvP and the ONLY way to motivate is to have item rewards. Nobody would duel if all their equipment dropped so ante'ing is the best middle ground.
An arena would do just that. Arena is perhaps a bad word, what I essentially mean is that if Blizzard wants to promote PvP, they will institure a system with set rewards that are not player based.
Seeing as how Blizzard is looking to create a common currency in D3 and not a system based on relative itemvalues, SoJs and runes, I don't think a system such as this iwll be implemented. The negative again will be that the obvious benefit of winning a duel may not be apparent to every player, because they may not know how much an item is worth. The system can easily be used by more experienced players to rip off others.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
The point [of dueling with no reward] would be for entertaining value. If that wasn't the case, then obviously the system must have been lacking in its design, and I agree with you.
Yes there is some entertainment in dueling D2 style -- with no rewards. However there aren't many people doing it. I always design my characters around the ability to take out difficult individual targets as opposed to hordes -- that is, players or bosses. However I didnt actually end up doing that much PvP, because I hated the fact that there was nothing to collect after killing the other person. I liked it better in D1 where you would just drop all your gear. of course that didnt work in D1 becaus everyone had cheat items, but if they werent using hacked items, I would much prefer risking all of my items when I dueled -- it would be worth it, simply for the sadistic glee of taking someone elses now and then. Now, you may counter by saying that people do not enjoy losing items -- but my response to that is, some people do -- I personally do -- and the system I am suggesting is entirely voluntary, its designed to be voluntary, so if you dont want to gamble -- DONT, but theres no reason why other people who would greatly appreciate it should be denied. Honestly, this simple feature which would require about 5 minutes of programming to simply adapt the trade-window for dueling antes, would probably double or triple my enjoyment of D3.
However you never lost the items you found unless you played hardcore in D2, and I never did, so I never had to worry about losing items.
Actually I did lose items in D1 due to drop-trade-scams, and I lost items in D2 due to last-minute-item-switch scams, and the like. Did it bother me? At the time, for a couple hours, yes..but to be honest in the long run, no. In fact, after getting ripped off, a very nice person donated to me some slightly better gear and then I established a relationship with them trading in the future. As I have said before, if you have not experienced loss, you cannot truly appreciate gain, so if there is no way to lose items in D3, I would definitely consider that detrimental to the games long term enjoyment.
Pros have to be weighed against cons. The pro of having a dueling system is that it is fast and efficient, there's no waiting. Therre is also no loss, which means you can experiment with new builds however long you wish.
Dueling system in D2 was not fast and efficient. Joining games, people running around, not actually wanting to leave town...there was a little tension there. Guild Wars have certainly "honed" this aspect by randomizing their duels...and this could easily be implemented into D3 as well. However, that is entirely a different topic, becaue even if they do implement an automatic mating system for duelers to speed up the process, it should still be possible to duel specific people by choice, and theres no reason to deny them the ability to ante items for that duel. Yes, there will be people who dont want to ante. You yourself said you dont want to, therefore, there will be other people like you. This doesnt necessarily slow things down, and furthermore, even if it did, that is irrelelvent...some of the most fun parts about Diablo for me have been calculating statistics with a calculator or analysing item cost/benefits or considering trades. If having the trade window open for 10 seconds is a waste of time then I dont know why you are playing diablo at all.
If a system of aqcuiring items not on an automatic basis, but on a player-to-player basis through a personal agreement such as this, it drastically changes the pace and function of a duel.
It doesnt change the pace, I see no evidence to that claim, but it does change the function...it makes it go from boring, to a fun and popular aspect of the community.
You will have to barter, which will take time and a lot of times you will probably have to decline to a duel because you do not think your opponent offers tangible benefits.
You act as if bartering is not fun. Well trading is part of the game, and its a fun part of it...so stop acting like we need to do everything we can to cut down on time spent trading or thinking about trading. Its not a bad thing!!! Also, you dont have to decline a duel because opponent has nothing good...if they have shit, and you think you're better than them, you can just kick their ass for free old school style...or you can be cocky and throw in a few SOJs just to laugh at them afterward, at th same time, making them more excited about it (since they obviously want to duel you anyway, since its voluntary). Nobody said anything about the game forcing BOTH players to ante.
True, you're not forced to trade, but a lot of people will only duel with trades, because otherwise they won't gain anything in return.
There was nothing to gain in return in D2 dueling, yet people did it. They will continue to.
The negative again will be that the obvious benefit of winning a duel may not be apparent to every player, because they may not know how much an item is worth. The system can easily be used by more experienced players to rip off others.
Trading can be used to rip off players who dont know item values as well. Thats just part of the game...and its something that adds fun to the game. If all items had their true trade value plastered on them the game would be much less dynamic and fun.
I think both subjects have relevance but only when combined. Instead of arguing over player set rewards or preset rewards why don't you just combine both. Such as following:
Ante Window is available with player set rewards.
Outside of the ante system there is another totally different feature which rewards the player for X number of victories/Defeat, could be a ratio, percentage , etc.
For example: Name Prefixes/Suffixes (Good and Bad ones), Temporary Char Boosts, BNet previleges, Auras, Etc. The possibilities are endless. This would ultimately reflect the PvP aspect of the game, thus successfully promoting it. I'm really thinking about back in the days when you get a M-M-M-Monster Kill! on Unreal Tournament, ie. Killing streak, Undefeated, however on D3 it would be represented by how many successive victories you have, one would be given X preset bonus/reward....
Simple right? Everyone is happy.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Trading can be used to rip off players who dont know item values as well. Thats just part of the game...and its something that adds fun to the game. If all items had their true trade value plastered on them the game would be much less dynamic and fun.
If Blizzaed is improving everything, why should they stop at knowing the value of items? Personally, i can't stand it when i HAVE to read outside sources in order to know how a online game works. No game should work that way. A player should not be punished for not knowing something that people who've played for a longer time know. If it were always like that, no one would even buy old games, because all the veteran players would rule the game's economy. And look how well that's doing in D2 - it's terrible. People wanting SOJ's for the most basic of items and whatnot is ridiculous.
Of course veteran players will understand more about the way the fighting and battles work, but what i mean is, the trading system should not hinder the growth of the game. One of the reasons WoW is so hard to get into for new people is the simple fact that everyone is expected to know everything already, which is counter-productive in this sort of game.
With gold, it's easy to figure out what the value is. But don't you remember the first time you saw a green item on D2? I remember - i thought it was a glitch. Should that be used against me? Should i be punished for learning thing as i go? No way.
Understanding how a game works by playing for a long time is one thing, but using that knowledge to rip people off goes completely against what Blizzard is doing to take away the factor of unfair competition. There's no fun in that, only anger and annoyance. Or, in the case of the one with the upper hand, a sadistic satisfaction, which should probably be saved for game sthat are built from the ground up to serve those kinds of people (i.e. most shooters and arena-fighting games). But Diablo is going in a direction of user-friendly co-op, which i feel is a very, very good thing.
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Stay.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
Archetype, man where are you coming from with all this off topic trade thing. You quoted mahamoti on the trade issue when he was making an analogy for the basis of the barter window, we don't need you to go deeper into economical point of views. It's been done on other threads before. and anyways, your opinion is totally biased, your basically passing off as an economically challenged player that just either doesn't like the concept or just doesn't get it. But that's just beside the point...
We are here discussing a bartering window for dueling and your here talking about the economy. PS: I shouldn't even have to tell people like you, NO, you don't have to be a veteran player to know prices, on the contrary, you need only be up to date. I could stop playing for half a year and it would take me half a day to get back on with the market value. I wouldn't have anything to barter with since i wasn't playing (which is to be expected) but at least I would know the value. But like I said this is so off topic.
I had just posted a possible solution to what people have been arguing about in the last two pages (Fixed rewards vs Player Set rewards) so why don't you try either developing more on this or finding your own solution. Either way be productive, don't reignite long dead discussions. We aren't trying to set what people should trade in ante and market prices, were just trying to make a concept that could permit up to date and hardcore fans to barter goods for dueling and the rest of the challenged folks to still get rewards cause they're too lazy to learn about item bartering. Giving both sides a big plus+ and at the same time encouraging the casual player to go out and try PvP.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Actually I did lose items in D1 due to drop-trade-scams, and I lost items in D2 due to last-minute-item-switch scams, and the like. Did it bother me? At the time, for a couple hours, yes..but to be honest in the long run, no. In fact, after getting ripped off, a very nice person donated to me some slightly better gear and then I established a relationship with them trading in the future. As I have said before, if you have not experienced loss, you cannot truly appreciate gain, so if there is no way to lose items in D3, I would definitely consider that detrimental to the games long term enjoyment.
That will depend greatly on the person playing the game.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
Dueling system in D2 was not fast and efficient. Joining games, people running around, not actually wanting to leave town...there was a little tension there. Guild Wars have certainly "honed" this aspect by randomizing their duels...and this could easily be implemented into D3 as well. However, that is entirely a different topic, becaue even if they do implement an automatic mating system for duelers to speed up the process, it should still be possible to duel specific people by choice, and theres no reason to deny them the ability to ante items for that duel. Yes, there will be people who dont want to ante. You yourself said you dont want to, therefore, there will be other people like you. This doesnt necessarily slow things down, and furthermore, even if it did, that is irrelelvent...some of the most fun parts about Diablo for me have been calculating statistics with a calculator or analysing item cost/benefits or considering trades. If having the trade window open for 10 seconds is a waste of time then I dont know why you are playing diablo at all.
I can't say I'm entirely against this system, because I'm not. But if Blizzard has a limted amount of time, which they do, and get to pick what to do, I'd rather skip this and have a more organized PvP-environment. Such as an arena.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
It doesnt change the pace, I see no evidence to that claim, but it does change the function...it makes it go from boring, to a fun and popular aspect of the community.
Well obviously not the actual duel in iself from going hostile to someone being dead, but the duel including the item trade and bartering.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
You act as if bartering is not fun. Well trading is part of the game, and its a fun part of it...so stop acting like we need to do everything we can to cut down on time spent trading or thinking about trading. Its not a bad thing!!! Also, you dont have to decline a duel because opponent has nothing good...if they have shit, and you think you're better than them, you can just kick their ass for free old school style...or you can be cocky and throw in a few SOJs just to laugh at them afterward, at th same time, making them more excited about it (since they obviously want to duel you anyway, since its voluntary). Nobody said anything about the game forcing BOTH players to ante.
You said yourself that dueling for no gain was boring, and if you get a crappy item from your opponent, then you are essentially getting nothing.
And about bartering, that's debateable whether an economy should be handled that way. I myself am not a big fan of it, and by all accounts Blizzard seems to be including a real currency this time around.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
There was nothing to gain in return in D2 dueling, yet people did it. They will continue to.
Then peoplw will probably cintune in D3 with it as well.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
Trading can be used to rip off players who dont know item values as well. Thats just part of the game...and its something that adds fun to the game. If all items had their true trade value plastered on them the game would be much less dynamic and fun.
For those who are on the winning side. It's not fun to get ripped of, it's not. And the majority of players will never master the bartering game.
Real item values are still decided by the player base according to supply and demand, but a common currency makes it easier for the avegare player to get paid his items real worth.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
And about bartering, that's debateable whether an economy should be handled that way. I myself am not a big fan of it, and by all accounts Blizzard seems to be including a real currency this time around.
Whoooooaaa....
First of all, anyone who's reading news updates knows that they are focusing way more on coop than on PvP in D3, so I personally doubt that they will be going to the trouble of making an in-depth system to facillitate PvP play. Now, a simple arena would not be difficult to generate...it would require making 1 or more specially designed level environments, and a few additional options menus. However, my suggestion takes so much less...literally, all it requires is a minor modification to the existing trade window, that could without a doubt be done by a single programmer in less than an hour. Essentially, I'm just asking them to "flip that switch" that says, "some people like it, why not put it in?".
Secondly, it seems to me that you are not just against my ante idea...you are actually against trading in general. If I was the president of the US, I would probably start calling you a member of the "axis of evil" since you dont support a democracy with free trade. I'm not going to fight that battle..I think its too obvious to everyone else that being able to trade items is one of the fundamentally great things about D2.
I wouldn't put it past them to add this idea or one like it to the Arena theory going around. sort of known "hostile zones" where you can set up matches.
First of all, anyone who's reading news updates knows that they are focusing way more on coop than on PvP in D3, so I personally doubt that they will be going to the trouble of making an in-depth system to facillitate PvP play. Now, a simple arena would not be difficult to generate...it would require making 1 or more specially designed level environments, and a few additional options menus. However, my suggestion takes so much less...literally, all it requires is a minor modification to the existing trade window, that could without a doubt be done by a single programmer in less than an hour. Essentially, I'm just asking them to "flip that switch" that says, "some people like it, why not put it in?".
Maybe you're right.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
Secondly, it seems to me that you are not just against my ante idea...you are actually against trading in general. If I was the president of the US, I would probably start calling you a member of the "axis of evil" since you dont support a democracy with free trade. I'm not going to fight that battle..I think its too obvious to everyone else that being able to trade items is one of the fundamentally great things about D2.
This is an entirely different topic, so I'll just say I like trading, but it does not have to be in the form of bartering.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Archetype, man where are you coming from with all this off topic trade thing.
Obviously one would have to understand the values of items and basic trading in order to understand offering items up for ante for dueling. Because no one is going to duel for an item that they don't know the value of. The idea of offering ante has everything to do with understanding the value of items, because the two players are literally fighting over the itmes. How anything i've said is off topic is beyond me.
I don't hate the idea of ante or anything, in fact it could work. I just wanted to point out that it's a pretty advanced idea for a game where we don't even know how the basic trading will work yet. In theory, a system like this could offer experienced players a reason to do PvP other than personal satisfaction, but, it could aslo be a double-whammy against people. It's bad enough to lose a duel, but to lose an item because you lost a duel would really rub it in your face.
I'm not saying that the game should focus on the underdogs of the game, i am saying, however, that Blizzard seems to remove as much "grieving" (as they put it) as they can in D3, so when there is a potential for a system to be abused, misused, or exploited, especially when it concerns player interaction, then they might think twice about using it.
For example: In D2, just because people have the opportunity to PK others doesn't mean that they will. Obviously not everyone PKs. But, since that system was abused quite a bit, Blizzard is changing it. So, i have a feeling that they will continue this approach when it comes to other aspects of the game as well. Meaning that concepts that have the potential of being used against other players have a high probability of not being used.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
If I was the president of the US, I would probably start calling you a member of the "axis of evil" since you dont support a democracy with free trade.
If you were president of the US, would you also be offering up an ante window before you went to war? lol. i can see it now..."Wait, before we go to war, lemme see what i have to gain from this battle. Let's see here, you offer me...land. And it's not even a set or unique land. Pshh, forget it!"
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Stay.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
Great Idea and it would greatly increase the fun in pub dueling games. It helps a lot not having to organize your own dueling tournament based on the forums (with prizes for the winner(s))...though I thought that was a lot of fun in D2 (which I hope to continue this season)
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Create a ladder ranking of PVP duels with winners and losers instead. The more wins you get, the higher your ranking status will be; therefore, giving you access to a special one numbered ranked item. For example, if you're number one, you get the Champions PVP Belt only wearable by the number person!
And to add more incentive to beating number one rank, you can win X amount of gold. The higher his wins, the more gold is fueled into being the number one.
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"Ahem. There's SAND on my boots." Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
I disagree...the fact remains that the driving factor in Diablo has always been hunting for items. Dueling in D2 sucked because when you killed a person you didnt get to take their gear. This made it pretty pointless to duel...what was the point? Nodody cared if they won or lost.
The whole point of ante'ing items is that it makes dueling a form of TRADING and GAMBLING and SHOWING-OFF all at once. A confident high level char might be willing to ante a highly valuable item vs a much lower value item when dueling a lower level char...but if that lower level char has a lot better skills/build etc, then maybe they can pull it off and be really proud of themself.
Having an Arena is not bad, but it doesnt change the situation at all from D2 -- there needs to be motiviation for PvP and the ONLY way to motivate is to have item rewards. Nobody would duel if all their equipment dropped so ante'ing is the best middle ground.
However you never lost the items you found unless you played hardcore in D2, and I never did, so I never had to worry about losing items.
Pros have to be weighed against cons. The pro of having a dueling system is that it is fast and efficient, there's no waiting. Therre is also no loss, which means you can experiment with new builds however long you wish.
If a system of aqcuiring items not on an automatic basis, but on a player-to-player basis through a personal agreement such as this, it drastically changes the pace and function of a duel. You will have to barter, which will take time and a lot of times you will probably have to decline to a duel because you do not think your opponent offers tangible benefits.
True, you're not forced to trade, but a lot of people will only duel with trades, because otherwise they won't gain anything in return.
An arena would do just that. Arena is perhaps a bad word, what I essentially mean is that if Blizzard wants to promote PvP, they will institure a system with set rewards that are not player based.
Seeing as how Blizzard is looking to create a common currency in D3 and not a system based on relative itemvalues, SoJs and runes, I don't think a system such as this iwll be implemented. The negative again will be that the obvious benefit of winning a duel may not be apparent to every player, because they may not know how much an item is worth. The system can easily be used by more experienced players to rip off others.
Yes there is some entertainment in dueling D2 style -- with no rewards. However there aren't many people doing it. I always design my characters around the ability to take out difficult individual targets as opposed to hordes -- that is, players or bosses. However I didnt actually end up doing that much PvP, because I hated the fact that there was nothing to collect after killing the other person. I liked it better in D1 where you would just drop all your gear. of course that didnt work in D1 becaus everyone had cheat items, but if they werent using hacked items, I would much prefer risking all of my items when I dueled -- it would be worth it, simply for the sadistic glee of taking someone elses now and then. Now, you may counter by saying that people do not enjoy losing items -- but my response to that is, some people do -- I personally do -- and the system I am suggesting is entirely voluntary, its designed to be voluntary, so if you dont want to gamble -- DONT, but theres no reason why other people who would greatly appreciate it should be denied. Honestly, this simple feature which would require about 5 minutes of programming to simply adapt the trade-window for dueling antes, would probably double or triple my enjoyment of D3.
Actually I did lose items in D1 due to drop-trade-scams, and I lost items in D2 due to last-minute-item-switch scams, and the like. Did it bother me? At the time, for a couple hours, yes..but to be honest in the long run, no. In fact, after getting ripped off, a very nice person donated to me some slightly better gear and then I established a relationship with them trading in the future. As I have said before, if you have not experienced loss, you cannot truly appreciate gain, so if there is no way to lose items in D3, I would definitely consider that detrimental to the games long term enjoyment.
Dueling system in D2 was not fast and efficient. Joining games, people running around, not actually wanting to leave town...there was a little tension there. Guild Wars have certainly "honed" this aspect by randomizing their duels...and this could easily be implemented into D3 as well. However, that is entirely a different topic, becaue even if they do implement an automatic mating system for duelers to speed up the process, it should still be possible to duel specific people by choice, and theres no reason to deny them the ability to ante items for that duel. Yes, there will be people who dont want to ante. You yourself said you dont want to, therefore, there will be other people like you. This doesnt necessarily slow things down, and furthermore, even if it did, that is irrelelvent...some of the most fun parts about Diablo for me have been calculating statistics with a calculator or analysing item cost/benefits or considering trades. If having the trade window open for 10 seconds is a waste of time then I dont know why you are playing diablo at all.
It doesnt change the pace, I see no evidence to that claim, but it does change the function...it makes it go from boring, to a fun and popular aspect of the community.
You act as if bartering is not fun. Well trading is part of the game, and its a fun part of it...so stop acting like we need to do everything we can to cut down on time spent trading or thinking about trading. Its not a bad thing!!! Also, you dont have to decline a duel because opponent has nothing good...if they have shit, and you think you're better than them, you can just kick their ass for free old school style...or you can be cocky and throw in a few SOJs just to laugh at them afterward, at th same time, making them more excited about it (since they obviously want to duel you anyway, since its voluntary). Nobody said anything about the game forcing BOTH players to ante.
There was nothing to gain in return in D2 dueling, yet people did it. They will continue to.
Trading can be used to rip off players who dont know item values as well. Thats just part of the game...and its something that adds fun to the game. If all items had their true trade value plastered on them the game would be much less dynamic and fun.
Ante Window is available with player set rewards.
Outside of the ante system there is another totally different feature which rewards the player for X number of victories/Defeat, could be a ratio, percentage , etc.
For example: Name Prefixes/Suffixes (Good and Bad ones), Temporary Char Boosts, BNet previleges, Auras, Etc. The possibilities are endless. This would ultimately reflect the PvP aspect of the game, thus successfully promoting it. I'm really thinking about back in the days when you get a M-M-M-Monster Kill! on Unreal Tournament, ie. Killing streak, Undefeated, however on D3 it would be represented by how many successive victories you have, one would be given X preset bonus/reward....
Simple right? Everyone is happy.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
If Blizzaed is improving everything, why should they stop at knowing the value of items? Personally, i can't stand it when i HAVE to read outside sources in order to know how a online game works. No game should work that way. A player should not be punished for not knowing something that people who've played for a longer time know. If it were always like that, no one would even buy old games, because all the veteran players would rule the game's economy. And look how well that's doing in D2 - it's terrible. People wanting SOJ's for the most basic of items and whatnot is ridiculous.
Of course veteran players will understand more about the way the fighting and battles work, but what i mean is, the trading system should not hinder the growth of the game. One of the reasons WoW is so hard to get into for new people is the simple fact that everyone is expected to know everything already, which is counter-productive in this sort of game.
With gold, it's easy to figure out what the value is. But don't you remember the first time you saw a green item on D2? I remember - i thought it was a glitch. Should that be used against me? Should i be punished for learning thing as i go? No way.
Understanding how a game works by playing for a long time is one thing, but using that knowledge to rip people off goes completely against what Blizzard is doing to take away the factor of unfair competition. There's no fun in that, only anger and annoyance. Or, in the case of the one with the upper hand, a sadistic satisfaction, which should probably be saved for game sthat are built from the ground up to serve those kinds of people (i.e. most shooters and arena-fighting games). But Diablo is going in a direction of user-friendly co-op, which i feel is a very, very good thing.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
We are here discussing a bartering window for dueling and your here talking about the economy. PS: I shouldn't even have to tell people like you, NO, you don't have to be a veteran player to know prices, on the contrary, you need only be up to date. I could stop playing for half a year and it would take me half a day to get back on with the market value. I wouldn't have anything to barter with since i wasn't playing (which is to be expected) but at least I would know the value. But like I said this is so off topic.
I had just posted a possible solution to what people have been arguing about in the last two pages (Fixed rewards vs Player Set rewards) so why don't you try either developing more on this or finding your own solution. Either way be productive, don't reignite long dead discussions. We aren't trying to set what people should trade in ante and market prices, were just trying to make a concept that could permit up to date and hardcore fans to barter goods for dueling and the rest of the challenged folks to still get rewards cause they're too lazy to learn about item bartering. Giving both sides a big plus+ and at the same time encouraging the casual player to go out and try PvP.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
I can't say I'm entirely against this system, because I'm not. But if Blizzard has a limted amount of time, which they do, and get to pick what to do, I'd rather skip this and have a more organized PvP-environment. Such as an arena.
Well obviously not the actual duel in iself from going hostile to someone being dead, but the duel including the item trade and bartering.
You said yourself that dueling for no gain was boring, and if you get a crappy item from your opponent, then you are essentially getting nothing.
And about bartering, that's debateable whether an economy should be handled that way. I myself am not a big fan of it, and by all accounts Blizzard seems to be including a real currency this time around.
Then peoplw will probably cintune in D3 with it as well.
For those who are on the winning side. It's not fun to get ripped of, it's not. And the majority of players will never master the bartering game.
Real item values are still decided by the player base according to supply and demand, but a common currency makes it easier for the avegare player to get paid his items real worth.
Whoooooaaa....
First of all, anyone who's reading news updates knows that they are focusing way more on coop than on PvP in D3, so I personally doubt that they will be going to the trouble of making an in-depth system to facillitate PvP play. Now, a simple arena would not be difficult to generate...it would require making 1 or more specially designed level environments, and a few additional options menus. However, my suggestion takes so much less...literally, all it requires is a minor modification to the existing trade window, that could without a doubt be done by a single programmer in less than an hour. Essentially, I'm just asking them to "flip that switch" that says, "some people like it, why not put it in?".
Secondly, it seems to me that you are not just against my ante idea...you are actually against trading in general. If I was the president of the US, I would probably start calling you a member of the "axis of evil" since you dont support a democracy with free trade. I'm not going to fight that battle..I think its too obvious to everyone else that being able to trade items is one of the fundamentally great things about D2.
This would add a great gambling side to it.
This is an entirely different topic, so I'll just say I like trading, but it does not have to be in the form of bartering.
I'm not sure what you mean since bartering is a synonym for trading
bar·tered, bar·ter·ing, bar·ters
v. intr.
To trade goods or services without the exchange of money.
trad·ed, trad·ing
an exchange of items, usually without payment of money.
Obviously one would have to understand the values of items and basic trading in order to understand offering items up for ante for dueling. Because no one is going to duel for an item that they don't know the value of. The idea of offering ante has everything to do with understanding the value of items, because the two players are literally fighting over the itmes. How anything i've said is off topic is beyond me.
I don't hate the idea of ante or anything, in fact it could work. I just wanted to point out that it's a pretty advanced idea for a game where we don't even know how the basic trading will work yet. In theory, a system like this could offer experienced players a reason to do PvP other than personal satisfaction, but, it could aslo be a double-whammy against people. It's bad enough to lose a duel, but to lose an item because you lost a duel would really rub it in your face.
I'm not saying that the game should focus on the underdogs of the game, i am saying, however, that Blizzard seems to remove as much "grieving" (as they put it) as they can in D3, so when there is a potential for a system to be abused, misused, or exploited, especially when it concerns player interaction, then they might think twice about using it.
For example: In D2, just because people have the opportunity to PK others doesn't mean that they will. Obviously not everyone PKs. But, since that system was abused quite a bit, Blizzard is changing it. So, i have a feeling that they will continue this approach when it comes to other aspects of the game as well. Meaning that concepts that have the potential of being used against other players have a high probability of not being used.
If you were president of the US, would you also be offering up an ante window before you went to war? lol. i can see it now..."Wait, before we go to war, lemme see what i have to gain from this battle. Let's see here, you offer me...land. And it's not even a set or unique land. Pshh, forget it!"
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
DO IT BLIZZARD! IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD OF DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! (YAY FOR CAPS)
Create a ladder ranking of PVP duels with winners and losers instead. The more wins you get, the higher your ranking status will be; therefore, giving you access to a special one numbered ranked item. For example, if you're number one, you get the Champions PVP Belt only wearable by the number person!
And to add more incentive to beating number one rank, you can win X amount of gold. The higher his wins, the more gold is fueled into being the number one.
Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
which I totally hope it isn't
because
diablo dueling is = wow dueling