Cmon bro, you're seriously missing the whole point........Oh and yes, Bonesnap is most definitely a "Rare" item in the game. Please don't argue that because it is. And just why do you think it became useless? Because it CONTINUALLY dropped for everyone, and it STAYED economy from that point on. Here's where the issue of supply and demand kicks in once again.
Supply = Bonesnap supply continually rising without EVER leaving the economy Demand = Drastically dropping due to the ease of obtaining a Bonesnap from the unending supply
Now, implement a system like BoE to this same situation, and here's what happens:
Supply = Bonesnaps continually balanced due to entering AND exiting from the economy. Issue of unending supply of Bonesnaps resolved. Demand = Again, continually balanced due to need from new characters and the limited supply of the Bonesnaps
Alright, please tell me this made things easier to understand.
Bonesnap is not rare...... but ok, I will not argue with you, you obviously know more about it than me.
allows you to swap between all of your characters on your account via a shared stashing system.
I agree this would be perfect. Just like the stash they already have in D2 but binds the item to your account when you put it in there yet still available to see and use them on your other characters. Brilliant!
Ok, I guess you were misunderstanding what I meant by the word "Rare". I wasn't actually referring to the rarity of the item, but it's CLASS. I should have used the term "Unique" instead.
But it's rarity isn't even the point I was trying to make.......
Cmon bro, you're seriously missing the whole point........Oh and yes, Bonesnap is most definitely a "Rare" item in the game. Please don't argue that because it is. And just why do you think it became useless? Because it CONTINUALLY dropped for everyone, and it STAYED inside economy from that point on. Here's where the issue of supply and demand kicks in once again.
Supply = Bonesnap supply continually rising without EVER leaving the economy Demand = Drastically dropping due to the ease of obtaining a Bonesnap from the unending supply
Now, implement a system like BoE to this same situation, and here's what happens:
Supply = Bonesnaps continually balanced due to entering AND exiting from the economy. Issue of unending supply of Bonesnaps resolved. Demand = Again, continually balanced due to need from new characters and the limited supply of the Bonesnaps
Alright, please tell me this made things easier to understand.
This is not a problem because the same thing, relatively, is happening to items of equal value. However if the whole entire D2 economy was based on one item, say a SOJ for example - you would see inflation - which is exactly what happened.
Really the problem here is finding was to A: Keep hacked/duped at items out of the game B: creating enough variety with skills, builds and classes where items hold a constant value.
Ok, i am not understanding this BoE or BoP system stuff.
TheHuHu you are telling me you want to eliminate the current Diablo 2 system of free trade between all players of all items?
and you want to replace it with a system that once you equip an item you are not allowed to trade it? -are you allowed to sell that item? -what would be the benefit of doing this, when Blizzard can simply just make Better Items more Rare in drop percentages?
The best thing about diablo2 online was that I could trade from the time i got a level 4 cap to the time i got a highly reguarded rune. It allowed me to outfit my character whenever i wanted as i see fit. Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that may support my new skills better. That item could easily be very useful to anyone and I want to have that option to trade it to finnd a more suitable item to the new skills i have acquired.
you also need to take into consideration: - that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person) - duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online) - trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed (less mules)
Yes, you would be able to sell the item, but the purpose is to not have an influx of all these items because in Diablo 2, the items were never destroyed. Duping aisde, there was millions of WFs and GFs in the game. There was no reward or value for obtaining them because they were so rampant.
Wow this Thread died once i posted.... can anyone help me out here?
Ok, i am not understanding this BoE or BoP system stuff.
TheHuHu you are telling me you want to eliminate the current Diablo 2 system of free trade between all players of all items?
and you want to replace it with a system that once you equip an item you are not allowed to trade it? -are you allowed to sell that item? -what would be the benefit of doing this, when Blizzard can simply just make Better Items more Rare in drop percentages?
The best thing about diablo2 online was that I could trade from the time i got a level 4 cap to the time i got a highly reguarded rune. Diablo 2's trading system allowed me to outfit my character whenever/however i saw fit. Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that support my new skills more adequately.
and that item i no longer have any use for could easily be very useful to someone else and I want to have that option to trade it to someone. Then i will find an item thats more suitable to the new skills i have acquired. Remember: Someone else's trash is anothers treasure. To be entirely honest i made a lot of my character develop much quick due to the fact that I could trade the great items that I had no use for anymore.
I mean it seems you guys havent taken these into consideration:
- that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person)
- duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online)
- trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed (less mules)
I posted a response at the last page (very last post).
You gotta remeber that because you had all that crap (runes, wfs (hope that was pre 1.10 btw ;)) is/was becasue DII was hacked to smithereens...
If, and I say IF, Blizzard can keep bnet free from hacked/duped/bugged (and what not items) there wont be anyone with 40 SOJS or acc full of hrs!
An example:
The probability of gotting a Zod from Baal (1st kill) is 1:2987183. Are you saying to me that you would have a mule full of hrs with those chances and a hack free bnet?
Well, I dont think so
Im against BoE/BoP and I have faith to Blizzard that they will keep this game clean (for at least a year or two)
A BoE system would help teh economy in some ways but in would hurt the game in others. Sure it will stop inflation in some ways but iyour main reason for this is becasue YOU WANT gold to be the currency in the game. My question is why shouldn't items be currency? Also items did leave the game as seeing not every single player and character who has ever played diablo is still in the game as seeign characters get deleted after a certain amount of time. And inflation will happen no matter what it's not really stoppable. I honestly do not understand why you want gold to be the currency as seeing you could never buy good items with it, the only way gold would be currency in a game like Diablo would be if gold could actually buy things which you could not get from drops. And by the way that $5 000 000 (or how ever much it was) you were talkig about would be less in some ways over time if you didn't spend it because of inflation.
This is not a problem because the same thing, relatively, is happening to items of equal value. However if the whole entire D2 economy was based on one item, say a SOJ for example - you would see inflation - which is exactly what happened.
Really the problem here is finding was to A: Keep hacked/duped at items out of the game B: creating enough variety with skills, builds and classes where items hold a constant value.
Yep, definitely agree that all that hacking/duping screwed up the economy even more. But, could you please elaborate more by what you meant by your first sentence? That was a bit vague.
As a reply to your B point, even if the demand for certain items becomes higher due to whatever character or skill builds that may come up, that still doesn't change the fact that the supply for those same certain items CONTINUALLY rises without it ever leaving the economy.
Okay, here's a real world example that I hope will finally make it easier for people to understand.
GASOLINE: It goes in your car, it gets used up, then you go back and refill. The demand for Gas will ALWAYS be there.
Now, hypothetically speaking, let's say they made a car that, once filled up with gas, can continually use that same tank gas for its entire usage. What happens? The supply for gas will continually rise, while the demand will drop due to everyone only needing that 1 tank of gas to run. Eventually, gas won't even be needed anymore due to no one buying it.
Hehe, now that I think about, in real life situations, I would LOVE an unending supply of anything! Screw BoE in that situation hehe!
But in the game world, IMHO, an item regulating system would definitely be a need. Really though, what this whole topic boils down to is whether or not you want your items to retain their value in the long run. Plain and simple. If you want things to end up like D2 where more than half of the Uniques in the game are flat out worthless, then be my guest and refuse a system like BoE. On the other hand, if you want the Uniques you find throughout the game to retain their value, whether they are low level or high level, whether they are easier to find than others, then you should support the implementation of some sort of item regulation.
While I agree that there needs to be a system to eliminate items from the trade market in some way, I'm not sure that the BoE idea is the best choice. Guild Wars worked with a customization system; weapons for instance could be customized to the player for an additional 10% damage bonus at the cost of no other character could equip the item again. This clearly wouldin't work in diablo as the principals that weapons are based on are completely different, but rewarding players for having their items binded to them is something to look at.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no cheap tactics, only good ones.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
A BoE/BoP system causes problems in HC. How will you loot your buddies items when they die? How will you get your nice PvP reward for killing the other player?
HC allready has a natural way of getting rid of items etc. I am fine with a BoE/BoP system, just keep it out of HC.
The best thing about diablo2 online was that I could trade from the time i got a level 4 cap to the time i got a highly reguarded rune. Diablo 2's trading system allowed me to outfit my character whenever/however i saw fit. Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that support my new skills more adequately.
and that item i no longer have any use for could easily be very useful to someone else and I want to have that option to trade it to someone. Then hopefully i can trade that item thats no longer any use to me for an item that. Remember: Someone else's trash is anothers treasure. To be entirely honest i made a lot of my characters develop much quicker due to the fact that I could trade the great items that I had no use for anymore to someone that Did need them, and i got something more suitable in return as well.
I mean it seems you guys havent taken these into consideration:
- that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person)
- duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online)
- trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed [which directly affects the amount of characters specified to solely carrying items (mules) which indirectly affects the EXTRA amount of items held.
**on a personal note, i had 3 mules just stocked full of uniques/rares/gems/runes and what not just for the sake of TRADING, that many of my playable characters use at some point of time during their leveling. if i saw someone that was looking for something and I happened to have it I could possibly work out a deal that benefited the both of us. This was a very big part of the game for me. I love trading almost as much as just PvPing.
Now put this scenario in an updated game like what Diablo3 will become (if those 3 points are addressed... mules/duping/many more items) and we still have the freetrading aspect that many players love.
That catch however is I wont have mules because there are more items in the game, and less of the same because Dupes no longer exist. So ill be trading based more on pure substance of the item and not based on specific item Names that everyone talks about in the game.
More differentiated items makes most mules pointless because its less likely for you to see someone randomly looking for item "X" because that item is a LOT harder to come by if duping is entirely gone, and diablo3 expands the item count by a LOT.
if we go with your system......i cant trade ANY items i may have used that someone in my very own game desperately needs and is willing to trade an item I desperately need.
if we go with your system......i cant trade ANY items i may have used that someone in my very own game desperately needs and is willing to trade an item I desperately need.
***Most concise and organized concern of the Thread Creators proposed System***
The best thing about diablo2 online was that I could trade from the time i got a level 4 cap to the time i got a highly reguarded rune. Diablo 2's trading system allowed me to outfit my character whenever/however i saw fit. Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that support my new skills more adequately.
and that item i no longer have any use for could easily be very useful to someone else and I want to have that option to trade it to someone. Then hopefully i can trade that item thats no longer any use to me for an item that. Remember: Someone else's trash is anothers treasure. Why let that cycle die with your system? To be entirely honest i made a lot of my characters develop much quicker due to the fact that I could trade the great items that I had no use for anymore to someone that Did need them, and i got something more suitable in return as well.
I mean it seems you guys havent taken these into consideration:
- that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person)
- duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online)
- trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed [which directly affects the amount of characters specified to solely carrying items (mules) which indirectly affects the EXTRA copies of items lingering around the market.]
**on a personal note, i had 3 mules just stocked full of uniques/rares/gems/runes and what not just for the sake of TRADING, that many of my playable characters use at some point of time during their leveling. if i saw someone that was looking for something and I happened to have it I could possibly work out a deal that benefited the both of us. This was a very big part of the game for me. I love trading almost as much as just PvPing.
Now put this scenario in an updated game like what Diablo3 will become (if those 3 points are addressed... mules/duping/many more items) and we still have the freetrading aspect that many players love.
That catch however is I wont have mules because there are more items in the game, and less of the same because Dupes no longer exist. So ill be trading based more on pure substance of the item and not based on specific item Names that everyone talks about in the game.
More differentiated items makes most mules pointless because its less likely for you to see someone randomly looking for item "X" because that item is a LOT harder to come by if duping is entirely gone, and diablo3 expands the item count by a LOT.
if we go with your system......I cant trade any items I used at any point during my characters grueling leveling up process... while at the same time someone in my very own game could desperately be needing an item I have and is willing to trade an item I desperately need in return, but we cannot because its BOUND to each of us.
A BoE system would help teh economy in some ways but in would hurt the game in others. Sure it will stop inflation in some ways but iyour main reason for this is becasue YOU WANT gold to be the currency in the game. My question is why shouldn't items be currency? Also items did leave the game as seeing not every single player and character who has ever played diablo is still in the game as seeign characters get deleted after a certain amount of time. And inflation will happen no matter what it's not really stoppable. I honestly do not understand why you want gold to be the currency as seeing you could never buy good items with it, the only way gold would be currency in a game like Diablo would be if gold could actually buy things which you could not get from drops. And by the way that $5 000 000 (or how ever much it was) you were talkig about would be less in some ways over time if you didn't spend it because of inflation.
Don't assume that you won't be able to buy items with gold. I don't see why Blizzard would make the same mistake again.
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Bonesnap is not rare...... but ok, I will not argue with you, you obviously know more about it than me.
Let me spell it out for you:
The root of the problem always has and always will be duped items.
http://www.diablo2guide.com/database/unique-items/bonesnap-id632.php
Ok, I guess you were misunderstanding what I meant by the word "Rare". I wasn't actually referring to the rarity of the item, but it's CLASS. I should have used the term "Unique" instead.
But it's rarity isn't even the point I was trying to make.......
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
This is not a problem because the same thing, relatively, is happening to items of equal value. However if the whole entire D2 economy was based on one item, say a SOJ for example - you would see inflation - which is exactly what happened.
Really the problem here is finding was to A: Keep hacked/duped at items out of the game B: creating enough variety with skills, builds and classes where items hold a constant value.
Yes, you would be able to sell the item, but the purpose is to not have an influx of all these items because in Diablo 2, the items were never destroyed. Duping aisde, there was millions of WFs and GFs in the game. There was no reward or value for obtaining them because they were so rampant.
Sorry for the slow responses, playing DoTA :).
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
I posted a response at the last page (very last post).
If, and I say IF, Blizzard can keep bnet free from hacked/duped/bugged (and what not items) there wont be anyone with 40 SOJS or acc full of hrs!
An example:
The probability of gotting a Zod from Baal (1st kill) is 1:2987183. Are you saying to me that you would have a mule full of hrs with those chances and a hack free bnet?
Well, I dont think so
Im against BoE/BoP and I have faith to Blizzard that they will keep this game clean (for at least a year or two)
"Ahh, fresh meat!"
- The Butcher
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
Yep, definitely agree that all that hacking/duping screwed up the economy even more. But, could you please elaborate more by what you meant by your first sentence? That was a bit vague.
As a reply to your B point, even if the demand for certain items becomes higher due to whatever character or skill builds that may come up, that still doesn't change the fact that the supply for those same certain items CONTINUALLY rises without it ever leaving the economy.
Okay, here's a real world example that I hope will finally make it easier for people to understand.
GASOLINE: It goes in your car, it gets used up, then you go back and refill. The demand for Gas will ALWAYS be there.
Now, hypothetically speaking, let's say they made a car that, once filled up with gas, can continually use that same tank gas for its entire usage. What happens? The supply for gas will continually rise, while the demand will drop due to everyone only needing that 1 tank of gas to run. Eventually, gas won't even be needed anymore due to no one buying it.
Hehe, now that I think about, in real life situations, I would LOVE an unending supply of anything! Screw BoE in that situation hehe!
But in the game world, IMHO, an item regulating system would definitely be a need. Really though, what this whole topic boils down to is whether or not you want your items to retain their value in the long run. Plain and simple. If you want things to end up like D2 where more than half of the Uniques in the game are flat out worthless, then be my guest and refuse a system like BoE. On the other hand, if you want the Uniques you find throughout the game to retain their value, whether they are low level or high level, whether they are easier to find than others, then you should support the implementation of some sort of item regulation.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
HC allready has a natural way of getting rid of items etc. I am fine with a BoE/BoP system, just keep it out of HC.
Diablo 2's trading system allowed me to outfit my character whenever/however i saw fit.
Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have
benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that support my new skills more adequately.
and that item i no longer have any use for could easily be very useful to someone else and I want to have that option to trade it to someone.
Then hopefully i can trade that item thats no longer any use to me for an item that. Remember: Someone else's trash is anothers treasure.
To be entirely honest i made a lot of my characters develop much quicker due to the fact that I could trade the great items that I had no use for anymore
to someone that Did need them, and i got something more suitable in return as well.
I mean it seems you guys havent taken these into consideration:
- that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person)
- duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online)
- trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed [which directly affects the amount of characters specified
to solely carrying items (mules) which indirectly affects the EXTRA amount of items held.
**on a personal note, i had 3 mules just stocked full of uniques/rares/gems/runes and what not just for the sake of TRADING, that many of my
playable characters use at some point of time during their leveling. if i saw someone that was looking for something and I happened to have it I could
possibly work out a deal that benefited the both of us. This was a very big part of the game for me. I love trading almost as much as just PvPing.
Now put this scenario in an updated game like what Diablo3 will become (if those 3 points are addressed... mules/duping/many more items) and we still have the
freetrading aspect that many players love.
That catch however is I wont have mules because there are more items in the game, and less of the same because Dupes no longer exist. So ill be trading based more on pure substance
of the item and not based on specific item Names that everyone talks about in the game.
More differentiated items makes most mules pointless because its less likely for you to see someone randomly looking for item "X" because that item is a LOT harder to come by
if duping is entirely gone, and diablo3 expands the item count by a LOT.
if we go with your system......i cant trade ANY items i may have used that someone in my very own game desperately needs and is willing to trade an item I desperately need.
that honestly sounds retarded.
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
This is exactly how I feel
The best thing about diablo2 online was that I could trade from the time i got a level 4 cap to the time i got a highly reguarded rune.
Diablo 2's trading system allowed me to outfit my character whenever/however i saw fit.
Much like a sports team trading for players they specifically need at the given moment. I want to be able to save a badass weapon that may have
benefited me 3 levels ago and trade it for other items that support my new skills more adequately.
and that item i no longer have any use for could easily be very useful to someone else and I want to have that option to trade it to someone.
Then hopefully i can trade that item thats no longer any use to me for an item that.
Remember: Someone else's trash is anothers treasure. Why let that cycle die with your system?
To be entirely honest i made a lot of my characters develop much quicker due to the fact that I could trade the great items that I had no use for anymore
to someone that Did need them, and i got something more suitable in return as well.
I mean it seems you guys havent taken these into consideration:
- that there will be MORE items in Diablo3 (harder/not as important to acquire same item as another person)
- duping will surely be eliminated entirely from the get-go (blizzard addressed anti-hack as main priority online)
- trading items between characters on the same account will be allowed [which directly affects the amount of characters specified
to solely carrying items (mules) which indirectly affects the EXTRA copies of items lingering around the market.]
**on a personal note, i had 3 mules just stocked full of uniques/rares/gems/runes and what not just for the sake of TRADING, that many of my
playable characters use at some point of time during their leveling. if i saw someone that was looking for something and I happened to have it I could
possibly work out a deal that benefited the both of us. This was a very big part of the game for me. I love trading almost as much as just PvPing.
Now put this scenario in an updated game like what Diablo3 will become (if those 3 points are addressed... mules/duping/many more items) and we still have the
freetrading aspect that many players love.
That catch however is I wont have mules because there are more items in the game, and less of the same because Dupes no longer exist. So ill be trading based more on pure substance
of the item and not based on specific item Names that everyone talks about in the game.
More differentiated items makes most mules pointless because its less likely for you to see someone randomly looking for item "X" because that item is a LOT harder to come by
if duping is entirely gone, and diablo3 expands the item count by a LOT.
if we go with your system......I cant trade any items I used at any point during my characters grueling leveling up process...
while at the same time someone in my very own game could desperately be needing an item I have and is willing to trade an item I desperately need in return, but we cannot because its BOUND
to each of us.
that honestly sounds retarded.
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
Don't assume that you won't be able to buy items with gold. I don't see why Blizzard would make the same mistake again.