Not a troll topic. As a barb, I normally go w/ stacking vit, all resists, and block (SS, HOC, JL etc). But I noticed something: I only have 60 dext ATM. Putting on a weapon with 230 dext gave me 9% MORE dodge. Going from 67 to 240 dext gave me 9% more dodge! That's rather huge as far as mitigation.
So: Do barbs want at least 200-300 dext just for dodge? Is there anywhere someone has theory crafted this?
I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that I read that the rolls for dodge and block are two different rolls, or something like that. Someone feel free to correct me.
Depending on how dodge actually works with barbs, it may just be useless, sadly.
The problem with dodge is that it doesn't proc revenge. Other stats are better.
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You don't need revenge as much if you take less damage, especially with high LoH and high mitigation. Thus, if I have 28% reduction from melee damage, 51% block chance (32+8+11) and high all resist and armor, revenge is less needed due to high EHP. If this is the case, is it worth giving up some other stat (potentially) to gain 200-300 dext to gain ~10% bonus dodge? That dodge would equate to what, 7-8% less damage taken overall?
Dodge is close to useless. Playing a barb is being able to mitigate enough damage so that your revenge heals more than the damage you're taking in. If you dodge an attack, you don't take damage but you don't proc revenge either.
Stacking dex for dodge is less useful than stacking int for resists (which actually mitigates damage). So while not completely useless, it is not worth giving up anything else in order to get more dex.
From what i understand 100 dexerty is 10% dodge 500 dexerty is 20% dodge 1000 dexerty is 30% dodge and 2000 dexerty is 40% dodge. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Having at least 100 dexerty is nice after that it scales worse and other stats are better, still is decent if you have it as extra stat on a piece but don't go out of your way for it.
If your wearing a shield i don't see any reason to NOT take revenge. The ability does alot of damage, has no cooldown, chance on proc when you get hit/block, and heals you based on how many targets it hits. wow that sounds like the perfect ability to use when wearing a sword and shield...seriously what ability would you take in it's place?
As far as dex...i wouldn't give up other stats to stack dex but if it happens to be on a piece of gear that has what you want....str/vit/ra then that's great. Don't go out of your way to get it. Dodge is great and taking less overall damage is better then having zero dex and trying to force revenge procs. As much as i like revenge it's still an RNG ability and sometimes it procs like crazy and sometimes you will go a short period where you don't get one. Can't rely on it too much.
Dodge is close to useless. Playing a barb is being able to mitigate enough damage so that your revenge heals more than the damage you're taking in. If you dodge an attack, you don't take damage but you don't proc revenge either.
Stacking dex for dodge is less useful than stacking int for resists (which actually mitigates damage). So while not completely useless, it is not worth giving up anything else in order to get more dex.
you don't play a barb yourself, do you? of course dodge is very very usefull, since you can dodge almost everything (besides voidzones / arcane lasers). and not every specc uses revenge, you know?
it might not be worth stacking, but dex is definetely superior to int imo.
When I'm looking at itemization, Dex is the last of the main stats. I actively try to avoid getting gear with it on it (67 Dex at the moment). I much prefer Int as it gives all resist which is much preferred for mitigation.
Cyzlak 33 more dexerty would give you 3,3% more dodge (1% every 10 dexerty until 100 and 1% every 40 dexerty until 500). Really getting dexerty to 100 at least is best after that its still decent but other stats are better.
Not getting Dex to 100 is ridiculously stupid. Check EHP calculator.
And revenge have nothing to do with dodge - you can't spam revenge whenever it proc - it has some weird CD, tied to either weapon attack speed or skill internal GCD. You basically staying there, taking hits, waiting for revenge to finally go off.
The problem with dodge is that it doesn't proc revenge. Other stats are better.
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Dodge is close to useless. Playing a barb is being able to mitigate enough damage so that your revenge heals more than the damage you're taking in. If you dodge an attack, you don't take damage but you don't proc revenge either.
Stacking dex for dodge is less useful than stacking int for resists (which actually mitigates damage). So while not completely useless, it is not worth giving up anything else in order to get more dex.
Very good point that I haven't really thought about until now (don't play a Barb much).
I've seen many "pro" Barbs have what I would call a decent amount of dodge (between 15-25%) but that might have been without actually seeking it out. There's plenty of times that dodging a Frozen or ranged mobs that hit like trucks and won't be in melee ranged much can save your life.
Still, your post pretty much answers the question here perfectly. I wonder if you can build a Barb without Revenge and heal with something else (that rushing dash ability with heal rune is decent from what I've seen, good to dash through Frozen and Arcane too). That could allow a Barb to get a nice amount of Dodge to go with his Resists and Armor. Viable/plausible? Don't know, I'm not a Barb, just chatting away here :-)
I don't think "stacking" Dex is the way to go for a barb.
Since each stat point is taken out of a budget, that Dex on your weapon or armor is theoretically depriving you from another more beneficial stat (RNG being what it is). It makes more sense for barbs to focus on vit and str, since one increases our armor and damage, and the other our HP and armor, essentially giving you a boost to your EHP.
The bigger your EHP, the bigger an effect something like revenge will have, or any healing effects for that matter as each HP is "worth" more.
But if you happen to get the odd piece with dex on it, don't disregard it. The DR starts hurting HEAVILY the more you put into it - the first 100 Dex gives you 0.1% per point, from 101 - 500 about 0.025 per point, and even worse from 500+.
I would suggest getting at least 100 dex, and not more than 500 without necessarily going for Dex.
So: Do barbs want at least 200-300 dext just for dodge? Is there anywhere someone has theory crafted this?
Depending on how dodge actually works with barbs, it may just be useless, sadly.
Ha. Bagstone.
Stacking dex for dodge is less useful than stacking int for resists (which actually mitigates damage). So while not completely useless, it is not worth giving up anything else in order to get more dex.
As far as dex...i wouldn't give up other stats to stack dex but if it happens to be on a piece of gear that has what you want....str/vit/ra then that's great. Don't go out of your way to get it. Dodge is great and taking less overall damage is better then having zero dex and trying to force revenge procs. As much as i like revenge it's still an RNG ability and sometimes it procs like crazy and sometimes you will go a short period where you don't get one. Can't rely on it too much.
Lol?
And revenge have nothing to do with dodge - you can't spam revenge whenever it proc - it has some weird CD, tied to either weapon attack speed or skill internal GCD. You basically staying there, taking hits, waiting for revenge to finally go off.
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Very good point that I haven't really thought about until now (don't play a Barb much).
I've seen many "pro" Barbs have what I would call a decent amount of dodge (between 15-25%) but that might have been without actually seeking it out. There's plenty of times that dodging a Frozen or ranged mobs that hit like trucks and won't be in melee ranged much can save your life.
Still, your post pretty much answers the question here perfectly. I wonder if you can build a Barb without Revenge and heal with something else (that rushing dash ability with heal rune is decent from what I've seen, good to dash through Frozen and Arcane too). That could allow a Barb to get a nice amount of Dodge to go with his Resists and Armor. Viable/plausible? Don't know, I'm not a Barb, just chatting away here :-)
Since each stat point is taken out of a budget, that Dex on your weapon or armor is theoretically depriving you from another more beneficial stat (RNG being what it is). It makes more sense for barbs to focus on vit and str, since one increases our armor and damage, and the other our HP and armor, essentially giving you a boost to your EHP.
The bigger your EHP, the bigger an effect something like revenge will have, or any healing effects for that matter as each HP is "worth" more.
But if you happen to get the odd piece with dex on it, don't disregard it. The DR starts hurting HEAVILY the more you put into it - the first 100 Dex gives you 0.1% per point, from 101 - 500 about 0.025 per point, and even worse from 500+.
I would suggest getting at least 100 dex, and not more than 500 without necessarily going for Dex.
100-500 Dex? Dex = Int
500+ Dex? Dex < Int
Regardless, you shouldn't be prioritizing either stat.