Blizzard have years of experience do you think they would release pvp without thinking this first?
Yep, no way would Blizzard release a game with a failed launch...they do have YEARS of experience right? They also wouldn't make a game where all of the content could be cleared within a week even though they claimed MONTHS, cause they have experience right? Please stop drinking the kool-aid people, Blizzard is a great company but they are not immune to error or bad judgment or bad design.
D2 PvP matches tended to be boring in the extreme for most of it, then remarkably brief once actual contact happened, period. It was like that on lower-level characters, it was like that on 99s. High ladder matches were being won by people who could move fast enough to de-synch themselves from the server in order to get up close unopposed and striking an enemy 2-4 times, usually in under a second. I dearly hope that this is not the case for D3.
High ladder matches? What high ladder matches are you talking about. Only character to de-synch themselves were hammerdins, or IBS from necromancer. No other character took advantage of the shitty server. Also high ladder matches were character specific, so a de-synch class faced a de-synch class. There was the occasional open ladder duels in which case the odds were the de-synch class would run into a bad match up and most likely get stomped.
Please refrain from talking about Diablo 2 PvP when you are obviously so clueless regarding it.
Blizzard will prob learn from wow and not be so ignorant about having one set of numbers for pve and one for pvp, if they dont, pvp shall be a joke as it is on wow.
Demon hunter would be good for PvP cause of the SS if a demon hunter pop SS you cannot hit them but they can hit you and if there will be a one shot PvP they would win deluxe.
I look forward to PvP with my monk... I think there will be some balance, mainly to not let the 30% melee reduction make them OP. Even then, melees should have an advantage, because both melees can in some way get up close to ranged classes, ie. FoT/Thunderclap, Dashing Strike, Ancient Spear, Furious Charge, Leap, not to mention stuns.
Ranged classes have the skills to counter such actions and that should be the game. Who messes up first, who gets the stun in, maybe a DoT... come to think of it, WDs should rock PvP.
Getting excited... as of now, i'm thinking Barb > WD=Monk > Wiz > DH, all very very very close.
Imo they should completely seperate PVP from PVE meaning:
Target searching spells should be forbidden since there is no skill involved in shooting them and impossible to dodge
Gearwise it should be consider to ban usual gear from pvp and instead replace it with specialy designed pvp gear. This would make it much easier to balance the dmg and surviveabality of each player. I dont know how hard it is to implement something like this in the game but in my imagination it would something like the following:
-PvP is restricted to max lvl Players
-Once you reach lvl 60 you get your character duplicated but without any equipment and instead like a pvp starter gear
-To get better gear you have to do PvP and get a currency for winning ( like Arena Points in WoW)
This are my thoughts so far and i hope pvp wont be oneshotting and rather interesting 1 to 2 min fights.
Man are YOU gonna be mad when pvp launches, and I stand in the corner hittin you with hungering arrows =D
<- One of the old d2 pvp`ers HOPING they wont fuck it up like they did in wow with resilence and "pvp gear" I wanna one shot nubs with my perfect gear that the casual scrub cant get...
PvP balance in rpg's/mmorpg's is close to impossible to do especially if the game is PvE heavy. Resilience was not a bad idea, it was the only way to balance WoW's pvp, atleast a bit. But as said, it's close to impossible to balance a game around PvP when it contains both PvE and PvP. One could downgrade everyones gear/skills when they join the arena match and let skills decide who wins and not gear, but this is close to impossible to do and would take a very long time to balance.
Imo they should completely seperate PVP from PVE meaning:
Target searching spells should be forbidden since there is no skill involved in shooting them and impossible to dodge
Gearwise it should be consider to ban usual gear from pvp and instead replace it with specialy designed pvp gear. This would make it much easier to balance the dmg and surviveabality of each player. I dont know how hard it is to implement something like this in the game but in my imagination it would something like the following:
-PvP is restricted to max lvl Players
-Once you reach lvl 60 you get your character duplicated but without any equipment and instead like a pvp starter gear
-To get better gear you have to do PvP and get a currency for winning ( like Arena Points in WoW)
This are my thoughts so far and i hope pvp wont be oneshotting and rather interesting 1 to 2 min fights.
I hope this is not meant to be serious. I mean why would anyone even bother to spend hundreds of hours farming for gear in inferno only to find that everything is for nought and has to start afresh. Lmao
I believe Blizz said somewhere that there will be 1-shotting, because they don't want to change mechanics purely for PvP. They could easily just add a debuff to damage and/or buffs to health, to make fights last longer. But who knows.
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When I grow up, I want to be a frill-necked lizard.
<- One of the old d2 pvp`ers HOPING they wont fuck it up like they did in wow with resilence and "pvp gear" I wanna one shot nubs with my perfect gear that the casual scrub cant get...
I agree with you on the level of not wanting things changed purely for pvp, but on a man to man level, you need your mouth slapped off of you
One shotting wont be as prevalent as you guys think... you all forget mobs dont have damage reduction and avoidance.
On my barb i would reduce a 300000 hit to 27000 without cooldown or passive accounted for. Thats without counting stuff like having monk on your team where id have 50% dodge while the monk spam mentra. If anything i think people will be bummed by the fact most of the attacks will miss on most classes. Even the most extreme case of hungering arrow passing multiple time and critting for 500k would be reduced to 45000 damage. Thats highly unlikely to happen because player have high avoidance. I still would survive it with resonable hp left. 500k is not an average crit for anybody.
D2 has a HUGE dmg reduction in pvp. Plus they might add some legendary drops or new affixes for items ( like resilence in WoW ). That'll have pvp centric gear on it.
Its been a while since i pvp'd in d2, but if i remember correctly a belt called string of ears....amazing for pvp, useless in baal/chaos runs.
Same with a low level chainmail chest called Shaftstop, mostly zons used it b/c it was horrible for leveling/farming. But amazing in pvp ( assuming you didn't have a +ias/life jeweled chest ).
And hammerdin's hammers hit for like 30k or something and they didn't oneshot people.
PVP wil be nothing in this game tbh, it never was anything special in D2 , it wont be anything special in D3 , unless they want to implement more from wow into diablo and i think thats a very bad idea ,they already ruined most of the game this way.
PvP was special, it is pretty much the whole reason you played, that and leveling to 99, but again that would've been for the +stats/+skill you get from leveling.
I don't really think there will be any consistent 1-shotting. The big damage spells tend to have at least a 10-second cooldown, and anyone who is even thinking about PvP is going to have enough Dex to get some decent Dodge (I plan on being at least at the first plateau on even my non-Dex characters), and a whiffed mega means you're operating under a handicap until it comes off of cooldown. Many of these ultimates are also going to be stupidly easy to see coming and avoid in most circumstances (Pile On, Earthquake, etc).
I actually get the distinct feeling that PvP will work out much like being an intelligent elite pack. You want to control the space and limit opponent options with CC and ground effects to set up your own high-damage effects. Picture what you would be doing if the enemy could see your affixes, and you'll see what I mean.
In addition, I'm moderately certain that Life Steal mechanics will be treated as though in Inferno
Expected dmg to Player characters per hit with r% all resistance reduce, a% armor reduce and d% dodge where r,a,d are in [0,1] (0 for nothing 1 for 100%)
Assume an expected dmg output H of a hit (can be computed out of min/max dmg and crit chance), then the received dmg is
(1 - a)(1 - r)*H (nothing random here). If we call H' the actual received dmg, then we have
P(H' = (1 - a)(1 - r)*H) = 1 - d, and P(H' = 0) = d (bernoullie random variable). The expected dmg for one hit is then
0*d + (1 - a)(1 - r)*H(1 - d)
Some values:
a = 0.5, r = 0.5, H = 500k (quite large) d = 0.3, then we get for the expected incoming damage
87500
Now this expectation does not tell us anything as the resulting damage would be either 0 or 125000, but if we repeat this experiment (same hit everytime) we can actually get something out of the expectation. So assume we want to execute the hit n times, the expectation is then
(1-a)(1-r)H(1-d)n (sum of single hits, linearity of expectation)
Examples
Assume we have 40k hp and we want to survive 10 hits, so we would like to have
(1 - a)(1 - r)H(1-d)10 < 40000
If we keep a,r,H , we have
125000*(1-d)*10 < 40000 => (1-d) < 0,032 => 0.968 < d, which was quite a large dodge rate. But it is not suprising as a 125000 hit would still get us killed, so we needed some high evasion. Going into a more realistic scenario, let H be 100000k (i suppose 500000 expected dmg per hit is quite large ? ), we get
(1 - a)(1 - r)H(1-d)10 = 175000 expected dmg for 10 hits, with 50% evasion 60% reduce (both types) we still expect to receive
80000 dmg and still can expect to be dead after 10 hits. 70% reduce (both types) goes to
45000 expected dmg after 10 hits, going for 60% evasion results in
36000
What is left?
Now, if some opponent has a high attack speed the game would still have quite short duration (as long as the one who is attacked does nothing ). The expected dmg on hit H is not the dps value, it is computed out of the min/max dmg and the crit chance (other modifiers for pure dmg on hit available that are not included in min/max?).
Reminder : The hitpoints can be replaced by effective hitpoints (considering lifeleech etc.) but the calculations remain the same.
Expected dmg to Player characters per hit with r% all resistance reduce, a% armor reduce and d% dodge where r,a,d are in [0,1] (0 for nothing 1 for 100%)
Assume an expected dmg output H of a hit (can be computed out of min/max dmg and crit chance), then the received dmg is
(1 - a)(1 - r)*H (nothing random here). If we call H' the actual received dmg, then we have
P(H' = (1 - a)(1 - r)*H) = 1 - d, and P(H' = 0) = d (bernoullie random variable). The expected dmg for one hit is then
0*d + (1 - a)(1 - r)*H(1 - d)
Some values:
a = 0.5, r = 0.5, H = 500k (quite large) d = 0.3, then we get for the expected incoming damage
87500
Now this expectation does not tell us anything as the resulting damage would be either 0 or 125000, but if we repeat this experiment (same hit everytime) we can actually get something out of the expectation. So assume we want to execute the hit n times, the expectation is then
(1-a)(1-r)H(1-d)n (sum of single hits, linearity of expectation)
Examples
Assume we have 40k hp and we want to survive 10 hits, so we would like to have
(1 - a)(1 - r)H(1-d)10 < 40000
If we keep a,r,H , we have
125000*(1-d)*10 < 40000 => (1-d) < 0,032 => 0.968 < d, which was quite a large dodge rate. But it is not suprising as a 125000 hit would still get us killed, so we needed some high evasion. Going into a more realistic scenario, let H be 100000k (i suppose 500000 expected dmg per hit is quite large ? ), we get
(1 - a)(1 - r)H(1-d)10 = 175000 expected dmg for 10 hits, with 50% evasion 60% reduce (both types) we still expect to receive
80000 dmg and still can expect to be dead after 10 hits. 70% reduce (both types) goes to
45000 expected dmg after 10 hits, going for 60% evasion results in
36000
What is left?
Now, if some opponent has a high attack speed the game would still have quite short duration (as long as the one who is attacked does nothing ). The expected dmg on hit H is not the dps value, it is computed out of the min/max dmg and the crit chance (other modifiers for pure dmg on hit available that are not included in min/max?).
Reminder : The hitpoints can be replaced by effective hitpoints (considering lifeleech etc.) but the calculations remain the same.
Imagine that:
G = Get
A = A
L = Life
Now in the following example:
(G + A + L) = Get a life.
Some calculations: Ima
The guy that did 5 minute of math needs to get a life, but the guy wasting time on forums to insult others doesent need to? Good stuff. My calculation = bad at math.
D2 has a HUGE dmg reduction in pvp. Plus they might add some legendary drops or new affixes for items ( like resilence in WoW ). That'll have pvp centric gear on it.
Its been a while since i pvp'd in d2, but if i remember correctly a belt called string of ears....amazing for pvp, useless in baal/chaos runs.
Same with a low level chainmail chest called Shaftstop, mostly zons used it b/c it was horrible for leveling/farming. But amazing in pvp ( assuming you didn't have a +ias/life jeweled chest ).
And hammerdin's hammers hit for like 30k or something and they didn't oneshot people.
PVP wil be nothing in this game tbh, it never was anything special in D2 , it wont be anything special in D3 , unless they want to implement more from wow into diablo and i think thats a very bad idea ,they already ruined most of the game this way.
PvP was special, it is pretty much the whole reason you played, that and leveling to 99, but again that would've been for the +stats/+skill you get from leveling.
agreed long after the game came out i only played anymore just for the pvp aspect of the game. after lvling 1 char of each to 99. im excited to see what they do with pvp in d3 tho
High ladder matches? What high ladder matches are you talking about. Only character to de-synch themselves were hammerdins, or IBS from necromancer. No other character took advantage of the shitty server. Also high ladder matches were character specific, so a de-synch class faced a de-synch class. There was the occasional open ladder duels in which case the odds were the de-synch class would run into a bad match up and most likely get stomped.
Please refrain from talking about Diablo 2 PvP when you are obviously so clueless regarding it.
Ranged classes have the skills to counter such actions and that should be the game. Who messes up first, who gets the stun in, maybe a DoT... come to think of it, WDs should rock PvP.
Getting excited... as of now, i'm thinking Barb > WD=Monk > Wiz > DH, all very very very close.
Man are YOU gonna be mad when pvp launches, and I stand in the corner hittin you with hungering arrows =D
Expansion begins:
"Resilience will fix it"
2 weeks later:
"Resilience will fix it as soon as people build more resilience"
4 weeks later:
"Resilience will fix it as soon as we buff resilience"
6 weeks later:
"Ok, we'll nerf the damn Death Knights..."
Now replace DK's with DH's.
I hope this is not meant to be serious. I mean why would anyone even bother to spend hundreds of hours farming for gear in inferno only to find that everything is for nought and has to start afresh. Lmao
I agree with you on the level of not wanting things changed purely for pvp, but on a man to man level, you need your mouth slapped off of you
On my barb i would reduce a 300000 hit to 27000 without cooldown or passive accounted for. Thats without counting stuff like having monk on your team where id have 50% dodge while the monk spam mentra. If anything i think people will be bummed by the fact most of the attacks will miss on most classes. Even the most extreme case of hungering arrow passing multiple time and critting for 500k would be reduced to 45000 damage. Thats highly unlikely to happen because player have high avoidance. I still would survive it with resonable hp left. 500k is not an average crit for anybody.
Its been a while since i pvp'd in d2, but if i remember correctly a belt called string of ears....amazing for pvp, useless in baal/chaos runs.
Same with a low level chainmail chest called Shaftstop, mostly zons used it b/c it was horrible for leveling/farming. But amazing in pvp ( assuming you didn't have a +ias/life jeweled chest ).
And hammerdin's hammers hit for like 30k or something and they didn't oneshot people.
PvP was special, it is pretty much the whole reason you played, that and leveling to 99, but again that would've been for the +stats/+skill you get from leveling.
I actually get the distinct feeling that PvP will work out much like being an intelligent elite pack. You want to control the space and limit opponent options with CC and ground effects to set up your own high-damage effects. Picture what you would be doing if the enemy could see your affixes, and you'll see what I mean.
In addition, I'm moderately certain that Life Steal mechanics will be treated as though in Inferno
Imagine that:
G = Get
A = A
L = Life
Now in the following example:
(G + A + L) = Get a life.
Some calculations:
Ima
The guy that did 5 minute of math needs to get a life, but the guy wasting time on forums to insult others doesent need to? Good stuff. My calculation = bad at math.
agreed long after the game came out i only played anymore just for the pvp aspect of the game. after lvling 1 char of each to 99. im excited to see what they do with pvp in d3 tho