NOTE: YouTube is taking forever to process the video, but the visual component is just filler as this really is a podcast. Feel free to "stay a while and listen" and not worry about the vid quality
Ladies and Gentlemen I have been gone and quiet for a long time. I think it's time I start getting back into the forums and being active with D3 again, it's a pretty exciting time with a looming expansion.
I've made another Video Podcast and I'm focusing on the removal of the Auction House this time around (isn't everyone?) because I think it has far reaching implications for Blizzard beyond the whole "buy gear now, lose carrot on a stick" issue we've been seeing.
As always, because I love Diablofans and this is a forum, I'll give a synopsis here.
When Diablo 3 hit there was a lot wrong with the game, but certainly there was a lot right. Gameplay, music, sound, animations, everything that made a game feel good to play was there. The game, however, was plagued by always online requirements, impossibly high difficulty walls, and loot that gave no real satisfaction.
Many issues have been resolved and while I bear no hatred to Jay Wilson, I'm glad to see the Diablo 3 team moving in a positive direction with the new expansion pack. With Loot 2.0, we're going to see it become easier to get loot that's self found and we're going to see items that offer changes in how we play the game. This creates a problem with an Auction House.
So when they add in all these cool procs, the first thing someone's going to do is find out which is more efficient and players will go buy that item. They will forget about all the other cool procs and how they could make fun builds and just go for what works the best, it just seems to be in human nature. I submit that not having an Auction House will cause people to experiment more. They will have a hodgepodge set of gear that isn't optimal and they will find a set of skills they find fun and start enjoying the game.
The second issue I see being resolved is the hard to balance skills and items that have plagued Blizzard since day 1. When IAS was nerfed there was a huge outcry, and I can't help but wonder if this would have been such a big deal if people hadn't gone out and bought all this gear to be efficient. If it was a nice to have stat that you had to find for yourself, would you have cared if it was nerfed?
Let's take that a step further and look at the Monk skill One With Everything. This skill has been a terror for Blizzard because most monks use it and they can't nerf it without making all that gear people BOUGHT become useless. So they tell us over and over again they want to change it but can't figure out how to do it fairly. Now that the AH is going away, it's going to be harder and harder to find that perfect set of gear to use with One With Everything and it's going to lose it stature and people will start finding other skills to use.
I think this is probably the biggest obstacle that Blizzard had to remove. Without the Auction House, Blizzard is free to think about skills and gear without worrying about what people bought, without having to be fair about what you traded for it. They can make changes that they feel will balance out the game as well as open up some creativity with how some of these skills work. They won't have to worry about "what happens if someone stacks this type of gear" because it will be rare. Certainly there will still be trading and 3rd party sites will pop up, but that's not Blizzard's problem anymore. If someone trades or buys on a 3rd party site, Blizzard isn't responsible for that transaction and doesn't have to change their skills to reflect that anymore.
I, for one, am really interested to see how this will play out and think Diablo 3 can have a bright future. Now Blizzard just has to follow up with some good gear for the xpack. Diablo 2 didn't become the game people know and love until after Lord of Destruction, so let's see if Diablo 3 can follow suit. Diablo 2 had about 3-4 years of tuning (expansion pack and additional content after), so it's not like there isn't time.
So now that I've brought this discussion into play, I'm interested to see if it's changed your thoughts on the AH going away for good or ill. Please by all means leave some feedback and discussion I'll be actively watching here and on the YT comments. <3 to Diablofans.
Video Description (and time stamps):
The Diablo 3 Auction House is going away! Find out what this means to you and, more importantly, what it means for Blizzard.
NOTE: I misspoke about Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction's release being a few years after D2. It was released only after a year, but D2 did have 3-4 years of tuning even after LoD's release.
Topics that are included in this broadcast:
Stay awhile and listen (00:08)
Reason for the lack of Diablo 3 content (00:52)
Blizzard announced shut down of Gold Auction House and RMAH (2:22)
What was wrong with the Auction House (4:08)
What Diablo got right (5:07)
The problem with loot (5:35)
Precursor to Loot 2.0 (7:14)
Loot targeting the class (7:44)
Case Study: Improved Attack Speed (IAS) (9:39)
Solving the problem of "One With Everything" (12:00)
Not being able to buy items encourages experimentation (15:50)
Trading player potions for game health and longevity (18:28)
No more need for Diablo to be always online? (21:25)
Challenges with the Auction House change - Goldsinks (22:48)
Adjustments for drop rates of patterns (23:22)
A request for more sets (and higher set drop rates) (23:48)
Diablo hitting its stride with an expansion pack (24:54)
Far more challenging than just turning it off (26:20)
Speculation on the Shut Off date - Loot 2.0 release date? (27:47)
Well, I must say this is the best way I have seen the removal of the AH being a good thing worded. Thanks for helping me see it another way :Thumbs Up:
I think this is probably the biggest obstacle that Blizzard had to remove. Without the Auction House, Blizzard is free to think about skills and gear without worrying about what people bought, without having to be fair about what you traded for it. They can make changes that they feel will balance out the game as well as open up some creativity with how some of these skills work. They won't have to worry about "what happens if someone stacks this type of gear" because it will be rare. Certainly there will still be trading and 3rd party sites will pop up, but that's not Blizzard's problem anymore. If someone trades or buys on a 3rd party site, Blizzard isn't responsible for that transaction and doesn't have to change their skills to reflect that anymore.
+1 for originality, but this is pretty minor in the grand scheme. Blizzard does not want D3 to be a "hard" game anymore, and it still has no real PvP. They aren't going to take balance all that seriously, beyond "let's make everything equally overpowered" as has been the mantra of late.
Hey there...long-time caller, first time listener, ;-)
Great post! As a player with a Monk main, I can definitely sympathize somewhat with the OWE situation. I was using it for a while, because it gave my character a pretty tremendous boost in resists because, during all my gear hunting, I hadn't even noticed that I'd equipped a ton of gear with both a ton of Resist All AND Lightning Resist.
However, it didn't take me long to realize how much this had seriously pigeonholed me...I saw the difficulty I'd have further upgrading my own gear, regardless of any changes Blizzard applied to the game. So while it took an incredible amount of work, I finally did manage to urge much of my gear away from the Lightning+AR setup I accidentally had leaned on, and while my total All Resist is a tad low (at least, I see it as low), I'm still able to handle MP7 entirely without One With Everything.
I can only imagine how much gold people paid EN MASSE to lean on a skill with hard a cap, thinking Blizzard wouldn't change it. That's part of the problem. The Auction House not only made it insanely easy to get ITEMS, but it also made it insanely easy to get GOLD to get MORE or DIFFERENT items. Meaning, anything you want in the game is pretty much at your fingertips. The moment people hear about some popular build making the rounds, suddenly there's a rush to buy every piece from the AH, instead of just farming more and keeping eyes peeled.
To the AH's credit, some extremely high end Plvl 100 players, with billions of gold on hand, have used that resource wisely to come up with fascinating, interesting and deeply cool and unique builds, that really show what kind of amazing things can be done with the freedom this game allows.
But most people use the AH to just stack a ton of DPS, IAS, CC, CD, LOH, LS, mainstat, and Vitality so they can faceroll MP10 as quickly as possible....pretty much, just so they can say they did it, so they can feel superior over everyone else. And the majority of those people? Pretty unsatisfied with their progress...bored...unhappy...can't stop QQ'ing on the forums.
My big concern, though, since hearing about Loot 2.0 being official...what will the updated gear mean to people with 800k dps, who are already facerolling? I'd like to think some of them might sacrifice a few hundred thousand to equip some gear they find during a run that can allow them to finally use skills they like, but feel underpowered...but I don't know if many of them are willing to do that. Their mindset is likely..."why bother working on my build, when I'm already facerolling?"
Hopefully, with Loot 2.0, Paragon 2.0, enchanting, and the skill balances and updates coming in Reaper of Souls...people will really start coming up with cool builds, and show off unique styles, and don't all just equip the same crap over and over.
I'm proud of my Spirit Regen/Transcendence Monk, I've put a lot of work into him, he's come a long way. He makes me feel bad for all the folks who lean on cookie-cutter builds because they're "easy."
You get a +1 simply because your videos are always well-done and not just some knee-jerk dogshit to fuel the fire. I appreciate your general objectivity.
I think this is probably the biggest obstacle that Blizzard had to remove. Without the Auction House, Blizzard is free to think about skills and gear without worrying about what people bought, without having to be fair about what you traded for it. They can make changes that they feel will balance out the game as well as open up some creativity with how some of these skills work. They won't have to worry about "what happens if someone stacks this type of gear" because it will be rare. Certainly there will still be trading and 3rd party sites will pop up, but that's not Blizzard's problem anymore. If someone trades or buys on a 3rd party site, Blizzard isn't responsible for that transaction and doesn't have to change their skills to reflect that anymore.
+1 for originality, but this is pretty minor in the grand scheme. Blizzard does not want D3 to be a "hard" game anymore, and it still has no real PvP. They aren't going to take balance all that seriously, beyond "let's make everything equally overpowered" as has been the mantra of late.
But they do have to make everything equally overpowered
I think OP has a valid point, especially in the context of 'build-changing legendaries'... not having an official economy frees Blizzard up to add, remove and tweak stats and skills without the inevitable well-reasoned responses and rational feedback from a well-informed community who always keeps their perspective.
A big "thank you" to everyone that stopped by with comments and feedback, since Diablofans frowns on multiple posts to the same thread this one might get a little long
Well, I must say this is the best way I have seen the removal of the AH being a good thing worded. Thanks for helping me see it another way :Thumbs Up:
This was the first thing I thought of when the AH went away, I knew they had problems with skills because of the AH so it just clicked for me that this could really clear those barriers.
Have my +1
Very good read, might come back for the video later. Really like your creative approach to the topic. You went past the typical "the game has to feel rewarding" vs "trading without the AH will be a hassle" and put a focus on how the AH diminished a lot of the uniqueness of each individual player's experience.
Thank you, it was an easy decision to make as all the reactions so far have been focusing so much on the loot progression and trading. This decision to shut down the AH really makes sense when you think back to all the posts they've made on CM, OWE, life on hit, etc etc.
The only thing I can't fully agree on is the part about D2 having that much time to finetune and applying this as an excuse for the bumpy road D3 has been heading down so far.(...) The community has a lot of creative feedback to offer, admittedly requiring quite some filtering effort. But still, a lot of it even comes to them practically for free via fansites, streamers etc. Maybe I'm just very impatient considering this is a business giant handling a record setting AAA title; yet I sometimes feel things could have gone faster and smoother with a little more regard for the helping fans from the get to.
Certainly Blizzard is hit and miss when it comes to community feedback. It could have been done better, to that there is no doubt. I suppose my point is that we should expect all the cool features that are coming or might come in the future to be there on day 1. Every new game, even if a sequel is a new project with new challenges. Trying to get everything in at once would simply take too long, all game devs have features that get scrapped because of this. One of my favorite sites that really illustrates this is [The Cutting Room Floor](http://tcrf.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor).
Again, not trying to discount your argument, they did (at least seem to) ignore valuable feedback. I'm glad they seem to be listening more.
+1 for originality, but this is pretty minor in the grand scheme. Blizzard does not want D3 to be a "hard" game anymore, and it still has no real PvP. They aren't going to take balance all that seriously, beyond "let's make everything equally overpowered" as has been the mantra of late.
I don't know if they don't want it to be hard, but I think they want it to be hard for those that seek it out and for the right reasons. Characters dying in one shot because they can't see attacks coming or because the damage is unavoidable just don't seem like the right reasons.
They also want really tough obstacles to be a CHOICE not something that feels mandatory. Monster Power 10 specifically seems designed to offer that challenge for those who wish to seek it. There are some who will claim that MP10 is still easy, but I do wonder how easy would it be for most people without the AH there to get upgrades with.
Hey there...long-time caller, first time listener, ;-)
(...)
But most people use the AH to just stack a ton of DPS, IAS, CC, CD, LOH, LS, mainstat, and Vitality so they can faceroll MP10 as quickly as possible....pretty much, just so they can say they did it, so they can feel superior over everyone else. And the majority of those people? Pretty unsatisfied with their progress...bored...unhappy...can't stop QQ'ing on the forums.
Thank you for stopping by and sharing your story regarding your Monk progression. It does a far better job than I could about showing the issues faced by players when they need certain sets and how some skills designs enforce specific gear choices that feel mandatory. I've linked a few people to your post as it was well done.
My big concern, though, since hearing about Loot 2.0 being official...what will the updated gear mean to people with 800k dps, who are already facerolling? I'd like to think some of them might sacrifice a few hundred thousand to equip some gear they find during a run that can allow them to finally use skills they like, but feel underpowered...but I don't know if many of them are willing to do that. Their mindset is likely..."why bother working on my build, when I'm already facerolling?"
I worry a bit about this too. It's possible with the new act that they increase the scale on the difficulty modifiers. If inferno now makes all the monsters level 73, then the DPS everyone has now won't be enough, they'll have to bridge a 10 level gap. I'm hoping that it won't just be act 5 that get level 70+ monsters, I doubt it will, but it means that some people might have to go back to lower levels of Monster Power for awhile. So some might have a head start, but I think it might balance out in the end.
You get a +1 simply because your videos are always well-done and not just some knee-jerk dogshit to fuel the fire. I appreciate your general objectivity.
Thank you, I always do my best to try and stay objective and see both sides. Some times are harder than others
But they do have to make everything equally overpowered
I think OP has a valid point, especially in the context of 'build-changing legendaries'... not having an official economy frees Blizzard up to add, remove and tweak stats and skills without the inevitable well-reasoned responses and rational feedback from a well-informed community who always keeps their perspective.
And by that I mean incoherent forum shitstorms.
I do like the mantra that Blizzard wants to make everything powerful rather than Nerf, but I"m also happy that they will nerf when something is TOO good. It's a delicate balance and certainly no one likes to get nerfed, but game health and longevity are the most important things they have to consider.
While well worded your article has the assumption that removing the AH will also remove out-of-game trading for the diablo community. IF there is an optimal build/gear, players WILL find it out and they WILL actively try to obtain it. Removing the AH does not stop this; it was more visible with the AH, but once it is gone if optimal gear exists people will just use forums instead. So far, the bind-on-account system seems like it would have solved most of the issues you presented, OP, even if the AH was left in the game.
The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.
In short you should not pass judgement on the "AH removal", good or bad, until you see what Loot 2.0 will actually do. So far we only have a vague idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
I was already subscribed for some time to your channel on youtube and I liked this video as well. I didn't enjoy the final fantasy ones as much, but that's personal preference. I look forward to you making diablo videos more often again Your videos are done well and I enjoy watching/listening to them.
I greatly appreciate the positive feedback and I fully understand how personal preferences go, so it's all good. Still, I'm sorry to hear you don't care for the FF ones, that's like my new drug. It's a sickness, maybe I should get it checked out.
While well worded your article has the assumption that removing the AH will also remove out-of-game trading for the diablo community. IF there is an optimal build/gear, players WILL find it out and they WILL actively try to obtain it. Removing the AH does not stop this; it was more visible with the AH, but once it is gone if optimal gear exists people will just use forums instead. So far, the bind-on-account system seems like it would have solved most of the issues you presented, OP, even if the AH was left in the game.
I didn't forget about 3rd party sites, but I probably should have talked about that subject a bit more. you see, what I expect is that some people will still use other methods, it happened a lot in D2. I fully admit back then I didn't know about those sites but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it did mean that most people who just played just for fun didn't know about it or didn't bother as it wasn't at their fingertips.
The big thing here isn't what people will do after the AH is gone. What matters is Blizzard's obligation. You see, right now, Blizzard wants to be very careful because they care about how people spent their money on their game. They won't touch skills or items that people paid good money for because Blizz knows it's bad to play with a person's expectation when real money is involved. They're always careful about changing things and giving warning in advance if something is going to change that affects customers (look how far ahead his announcement came for example).
If users switch to Third party sites, Blizzard is no longer responsible for the money a person might have paid. That type of transaction is no longer supported by Blizzard so they can now change skills and items at will because it's all just game data with no monetary value applied. Granted Blizzard will still probably be careful about changing things too hastily, but they no longer have this Guillotine hanging over their necks that could drop the moment they dared to change something someone paid real cash for.
The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with the ability to get exactly what you want from a few hours. It should be about finding something cool that you might want to use and trying it out, not about picking that exact item that's perfect for what you want to do right now. But that's what trading is for and not everyone is going to go hunting on third party sites for that either. Sure some will, but a majority of the people who play casually probably won't care.
In short you should not pass judgement on the "AH removal", good or bad, until you see what Loot 2.0 will actually do. So far we only have a vague idea.
I'm not passing judgment, I wouldn't have cared if they didn't remove it because I didn't use it anyway. This is more about showing the road that can be taken, showing what this could mean now that the AH is out of Blizzard's hands. With their hands no longer tied to the system directly they are free to take more extreme actions.
And yet you yourself in your post do immedeat assumptions and judgement upon what the likelyhood of how a significant amount of people WILL act?
Without the easy access to AH - most people won't bother to go to other sites etc. Because the main driving force behind the AH was not optimization - it was leissure. If something is very easy to access and gives you plenty of reward -> It becomes a routine -> it becomes normal.
If it's hard to access - the number of people who will even remotely go to a third party site or w/e to get items, won't even get CLOSE to what AH does at the moment. As long as the reward system keeps on par with providing a standard for which is not impeding on their progress.
I think this is a very valid point that convenience played a huge part in both the AH's success and failures. A lot of players aren't going to care about finding a 3rd party site if they feel they are finding enough to warrant playing. Hopefully Loot 2.0 does solve this.
As for OP - Pretty solid view. Your choise of wording, pacing and what not all fits together to actually have me bother reading through all of it. And your thoughts , as far as i see it - are reasonable. I might even check out your YT Channel.
Thank you. Not everything on my channel is a gem, but I do enjoy what I do so I put a lot of effort into it.
I think it will be good but i hope they vome up with something else aswell
Yes, something to make trading easier would help. I think something that doesn't attach a value to the items, but says "hey, I have this and I'd like to give it to someone, give me an offer". I've heard people suggest Browsable Stash tabs as an idea and I think that would be awesome. (all credit to ZiggyD for that one, I saw the idea first on his video).
They've already given us the ability to add icons to our stash, why not tie it into Battle.net 2.0 and let people search your profile for items that you want to give away. Don't let players put a price on it so they have to still barter for items back and forth. That would be pretty cool. I think GGG is going to be doing something like this in the future for Path of Exile.
While well worded your article has the assumption that removing the AH will also remove out-of-game trading for the diablo community. IF there is an optimal build/gear, players WILL find it out and they WILL actively try to obtain it. Removing the AH does not stop this; it was more visible with the AH, but once it is gone if optimal gear exists people will just use forums instead. So far, the bind-on-account system seems like it would have solved most of the issues you presented, OP, even if the AH was left in the game.
I didn't forget about 3rd party sites, but I probably should have talked about that subject a bit more. you see, what I expect is that some people will still use other methods, it happened a lot in D2. I fully admit back then I didn't know about those sites but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it did mean that most people who just played just for fun didn't know about it or didn't bother as it wasn't at their fingertips.
The big thing here isn't what people will do after the AH is gone. What matters is Blizzard's obligation. You see, right now, Blizzard wants to be very careful because they care about how people spent their money on their game. They won't touch skills or items that people paid good money for because Blizz knows it's bad to play with a person's expectation when real money is involved. They're always careful about changing things and giving warning in advance if something is going to change that affects customers (look how far ahead his announcement came for example).
If users switch to Third party sites, Blizzard is no longer responsible for the money a person might have paid. That type of transaction is no longer supported by Blizzard so they can now change skills and items at will because it's all just game data with no monetary value applied. Granted Blizzard will still probably be careful about changing things too hastily, but they no longer have this Guillotine hanging over their necks that could drop the moment they dared to change something someone paid real cash for.
Good point! I will mention though that legally, because of the end user license agreement (the game is licensed to you not sold), Blizzard could change anything they want in the game while real money is involved. When you buy those Blizzard bucks you aren't trading currency for currency, you are technically buying the right to use X amount of blizzard bucks which Blizzard can take or modify in anyway....... But socially I definitely agree I could see an outrage and it would still be an annoyance for their legal team; removing the AH will help in that regards.
The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with the ability to get exactly what you want from a few hours. It should be about finding something cool that you might want to use and trying it out, not about picking that exact item that's perfect for what you want to do right now. But that's what trading is for and not everyone is going to go hunting on third party sites for that either. Sure some will, but a majority of the people who play casually probably won't care.
Your right, it should be about finding something cool, but people's minds don't like working that way. The problem is that even when a minority of the population starts using 3rd party sites it will affect the rest of the population- this is afterall a social game. The people that go out and trade and/or buy will be significantly better than the casual player. This in turn causes those casual players to either quit because they can't keep up or begin trading/buying themselves-- this also is the status quo.
What Im getting at here is this: 2 scenarios
Diablo 3 with in-game AH
Diablo 3 with no AH
For each instance of the game some players will try to play casually while others will seek to maximize one or multiple characters. Im saying this: the only difference between the two scenarios is that one provides a safe in-game way of trading while the other does not. I do submit though that the real logical reason for removal of the AH is so that Blizzard can un-tie their hands and change the game more freely (though their hands are only tied by verbal and social media backlash)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
I do submit though that the real logical reason for removal of the AH is so that Blizzard can un-tie their hands and change the game more freely (though their hands are only tied by verbal and social media backlash)
Whether or not I agree with your thesis, I think it says a lot about the community that the vocal minority can hold a company like Blizzard hostage in that manner. It's a scenario where the inmates are running the asylum and the opinions of a few, because of how they amplify their voices, end up hurting us all.
That IAS nerf, in retrospect, was 100% legit. It didn't ruin IAS. It didn't make IAS a horrible stat. It just made it "not good enough" that a blue item with perfect IAS was no longer a "top" item. Blizzard was completely justified in making that change, yet it was contentious as anything. Why? Because a couple thousand people shit the bed because they had made RMAH purchases.
As a community we have to stand up to those people because their interests are toxic and self-serving and do not represent the needs of the community at large. They have poisoned the water just as much as anything else. We should not allow the game to be held hostage by that demographic. We should have Blizzard's back when it comes to changing things, even if it means that people who have sunk real-world $$$ into items are up shit's creek.
Yeeeaah.....I'm pretty sure that was Blizzard's lawyers' advice, and not the community's problem (although the people you talk about are very much real). I'm pretty sure their legal department said "yeah, I'd be careful messing with things people have purchased for real money, if I was you".
Yes, as much as Blizz may want to prevent public outcry, I agree with Maka that they really just want to avoid those three sexy words that get any lawyer all twitterpaited. "Bait and Switch"
Ladies and Gentlemen I have been gone and quiet for a long time.
I've made another Video Podcast and I'm focusing on the removal of the Auction House this time around (isn't everyone?) because I think it has far reaching implications for Blizzard beyond the whole "buy gear now, lose carrot on a stick" issue we've been seeing.
As always, because I love Diablofans and this is a forum, I'll give a synopsis here.
When Diablo 3 hit there was a lot wrong with the game, but certainly there was a lot right. Gameplay, music, sound, animations, everything that made a game feel good to play was there. The game, however, was plagued by always online requirements, impossibly high difficulty walls, and loot that gave no real satisfaction.
Many issues have been resolved and while I bear no hatred to Jay Wilson, I'm glad to see the Diablo 3 team moving in a positive direction with the new expansion pack. With Loot 2.0, we're going to see it become easier to get loot that's self found and we're going to see items that offer changes in how we play the game. This creates a problem with an Auction House.
So when they add in all these cool procs, the first thing someone's going to do is find out which is more efficient and players will go buy that item. They will forget about all the other cool procs and how they could make fun builds and just go for what works the best, it just seems to be in human nature. I submit that not having an Auction House will cause people to experiment more. They will have a hodgepodge set of gear that isn't optimal and they will find a set of skills they find fun and start enjoying the game.
The second issue I see being resolved is the hard to balance skills and items that have plagued Blizzard since day 1. When IAS was nerfed there was a huge outcry, and I can't help but wonder if this would have been such a big deal if people hadn't gone out and bought all this gear to be efficient. If it was a nice to have stat that you had to find for yourself, would you have cared if it was nerfed?
Let's take that a step further and look at the Monk skill One With Everything. This skill has been a terror for Blizzard because most monks use it and they can't nerf it without making all that gear people BOUGHT become useless. So they tell us over and over again they want to change it but can't figure out how to do it fairly. Now that the AH is going away, it's going to be harder and harder to find that perfect set of gear to use with One With Everything and it's going to lose it stature and people will start finding other skills to use.
I think this is probably the biggest obstacle that Blizzard had to remove. Without the Auction House, Blizzard is free to think about skills and gear without worrying about what people bought, without having to be fair about what you traded for it. They can make changes that they feel will balance out the game as well as open up some creativity with how some of these skills work. They won't have to worry about "what happens if someone stacks this type of gear" because it will be rare. Certainly there will still be trading and 3rd party sites will pop up, but that's not Blizzard's problem anymore. If someone trades or buys on a 3rd party site, Blizzard isn't responsible for that transaction and doesn't have to change their skills to reflect that anymore.
I, for one, am really interested to see how this will play out and think Diablo 3 can have a bright future. Now Blizzard just has to follow up with some good gear for the xpack. Diablo 2 didn't become the game people know and love until after Lord of Destruction, so let's see if Diablo 3 can follow suit. Diablo 2 had about 3-4 years of tuning (expansion pack and additional content after), so it's not like there isn't time.
So now that I've brought this discussion into play, I'm interested to see if it's changed your thoughts on the AH going away for good or ill. Please by all means leave some feedback and discussion I'll be actively watching here and on the YT comments. <3 to Diablofans.
Video Description (and time stamps):
The Diablo 3 Auction House is going away! Find out what this means to you and, more importantly, what it means for Blizzard.
NOTE: I misspoke about Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction's release being a few years after D2. It was released only after a year, but D2 did have 3-4 years of tuning even after LoD's release.
Topics that are included in this broadcast:
+1 for originality, but this is pretty minor in the grand scheme. Blizzard does not want D3 to be a "hard" game anymore, and it still has no real PvP. They aren't going to take balance all that seriously, beyond "let's make everything equally overpowered" as has been the mantra of late.
Great post! As a player with a Monk main, I can definitely sympathize somewhat with the OWE situation. I was using it for a while, because it gave my character a pretty tremendous boost in resists because, during all my gear hunting, I hadn't even noticed that I'd equipped a ton of gear with both a ton of Resist All AND Lightning Resist.
However, it didn't take me long to realize how much this had seriously pigeonholed me...I saw the difficulty I'd have further upgrading my own gear, regardless of any changes Blizzard applied to the game. So while it took an incredible amount of work, I finally did manage to urge much of my gear away from the Lightning+AR setup I accidentally had leaned on, and while my total All Resist is a tad low (at least, I see it as low), I'm still able to handle MP7 entirely without One With Everything.
I can only imagine how much gold people paid EN MASSE to lean on a skill with hard a cap, thinking Blizzard wouldn't change it. That's part of the problem. The Auction House not only made it insanely easy to get ITEMS, but it also made it insanely easy to get GOLD to get MORE or DIFFERENT items. Meaning, anything you want in the game is pretty much at your fingertips. The moment people hear about some popular build making the rounds, suddenly there's a rush to buy every piece from the AH, instead of just farming more and keeping eyes peeled.
To the AH's credit, some extremely high end Plvl 100 players, with billions of gold on hand, have used that resource wisely to come up with fascinating, interesting and deeply cool and unique builds, that really show what kind of amazing things can be done with the freedom this game allows.
But most people use the AH to just stack a ton of DPS, IAS, CC, CD, LOH, LS, mainstat, and Vitality so they can faceroll MP10 as quickly as possible....pretty much, just so they can say they did it, so they can feel superior over everyone else. And the majority of those people? Pretty unsatisfied with their progress...bored...unhappy...can't stop QQ'ing on the forums.
My big concern, though, since hearing about Loot 2.0 being official...what will the updated gear mean to people with 800k dps, who are already facerolling? I'd like to think some of them might sacrifice a few hundred thousand to equip some gear they find during a run that can allow them to finally use skills they like, but feel underpowered...but I don't know if many of them are willing to do that. Their mindset is likely..."why bother working on my build, when I'm already facerolling?"
Hopefully, with Loot 2.0, Paragon 2.0, enchanting, and the skill balances and updates coming in Reaper of Souls...people will really start coming up with cool builds, and show off unique styles, and don't all just equip the same crap over and over.
I'm proud of my Spirit Regen/Transcendence Monk, I've put a lot of work into him, he's come a long way. He makes me feel bad for all the folks who lean on cookie-cutter builds because they're "easy."
But they do have to make everything equally overpowered
I think OP has a valid point, especially in the context of 'build-changing legendaries'... not having an official economy frees Blizzard up to add, remove and tweak stats and skills without the inevitable well-reasoned responses and rational feedback from a well-informed community who always keeps their perspective.
And by that I mean incoherent forum shitstorms.
This was the first thing I thought of when the AH went away, I knew they had problems with skills because of the AH so it just clicked for me that this could really clear those barriers.
Thank you, it was an easy decision to make as all the reactions so far have been focusing so much on the loot progression and trading. This decision to shut down the AH really makes sense when you think back to all the posts they've made on CM, OWE, life on hit, etc etc.
Certainly Blizzard is hit and miss when it comes to community feedback. It could have been done better, to that there is no doubt. I suppose my point is that we should expect all the cool features that are coming or might come in the future to be there on day 1. Every new game, even if a sequel is a new project with new challenges. Trying to get everything in at once would simply take too long, all game devs have features that get scrapped because of this. One of my favorite sites that really illustrates this is [The Cutting Room Floor](http://tcrf.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor).
Again, not trying to discount your argument, they did (at least seem to) ignore valuable feedback. I'm glad they seem to be listening more.
I don't know if they don't want it to be hard, but I think they want it to be hard for those that seek it out and for the right reasons. Characters dying in one shot because they can't see attacks coming or because the damage is unavoidable just don't seem like the right reasons.
They also want really tough obstacles to be a CHOICE not something that feels mandatory. Monster Power 10 specifically seems designed to offer that challenge for those who wish to seek it. There are some who will claim that MP10 is still easy, but I do wonder how easy would it be for most people without the AH there to get upgrades with.
Thank you for stopping by and sharing your story regarding your Monk progression. It does a far better job than I could about showing the issues faced by players when they need certain sets and how some skills designs enforce specific gear choices that feel mandatory. I've linked a few people to your post as it was well done.
I worry a bit about this too. It's possible with the new act that they increase the scale on the difficulty modifiers. If inferno now makes all the monsters level 73, then the DPS everyone has now won't be enough, they'll have to bridge a 10 level gap. I'm hoping that it won't just be act 5 that get level 70+ monsters, I doubt it will, but it means that some people might have to go back to lower levels of Monster Power for awhile. So some might have a head start, but I think it might balance out in the end.
Thank you, I always do my best to try and stay objective and see both sides. Some times are harder than others
I will fully admit you might have to dig for the good stuff, but I hope you enjoyed your time browsing. :Thumbs Up:
I do like the mantra that Blizzard wants to make everything powerful rather than Nerf, but I"m also happy that they will nerf when something is TOO good. It's a delicate balance and certainly no one likes to get nerfed, but game health and longevity are the most important things they have to consider.
The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.
In short you should not pass judgement on the "AH removal", good or bad, until you see what Loot 2.0 will actually do. So far we only have a vague idea.
Ha. Bagstone.
I greatly appreciate the positive feedback and I fully understand how personal preferences go, so it's all good. Still, I'm sorry to hear you don't care for the FF ones, that's like my new drug. It's a sickness, maybe I should get it checked out.
I didn't forget about 3rd party sites, but I probably should have talked about that subject a bit more. you see, what I expect is that some people will still use other methods, it happened a lot in D2. I fully admit back then I didn't know about those sites but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it did mean that most people who just played just for fun didn't know about it or didn't bother as it wasn't at their fingertips.
The big thing here isn't what people will do after the AH is gone. What matters is Blizzard's obligation. You see, right now, Blizzard wants to be very careful because they care about how people spent their money on their game. They won't touch skills or items that people paid good money for because Blizz knows it's bad to play with a person's expectation when real money is involved. They're always careful about changing things and giving warning in advance if something is going to change that affects customers (look how far ahead his announcement came for example).
If users switch to Third party sites, Blizzard is no longer responsible for the money a person might have paid. That type of transaction is no longer supported by Blizzard so they can now change skills and items at will because it's all just game data with no monetary value applied. Granted Blizzard will still probably be careful about changing things too hastily, but they no longer have this Guillotine hanging over their necks that could drop the moment they dared to change something someone paid real cash for.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with the ability to get exactly what you want from a few hours. It should be about finding something cool that you might want to use and trying it out, not about picking that exact item that's perfect for what you want to do right now. But that's what trading is for and not everyone is going to go hunting on third party sites for that either. Sure some will, but a majority of the people who play casually probably won't care.
I'm not passing judgment, I wouldn't have cared if they didn't remove it because I didn't use it anyway. This is more about showing the road that can be taken, showing what this could mean now that the AH is out of Blizzard's hands. With their hands no longer tied to the system directly they are free to take more extreme actions.
Salutations good Sir. I choose to think of it not as forgetting to say hi, but rather you choose to very craftfully bump up the post on another day.
I think this is a very valid point that convenience played a huge part in both the AH's success and failures. A lot of players aren't going to care about finding a 3rd party site if they feel they are finding enough to warrant playing. Hopefully Loot 2.0 does solve this.
Thank you. Not everything on my channel is a gem, but I do enjoy what I do so I put a lot of effort into it.
Yes, something to make trading easier would help. I think something that doesn't attach a value to the items, but says "hey, I have this and I'd like to give it to someone, give me an offer". I've heard people suggest Browsable Stash tabs as an idea and I think that would be awesome. (all credit to ZiggyD for that one, I saw the idea first on his video).
They've already given us the ability to add icons to our stash, why not tie it into Battle.net 2.0 and let people search your profile for items that you want to give away. Don't let players put a price on it so they have to still barter for items back and forth. That would be pretty cool. I think GGG is going to be doing something like this in the future for Path of Exile.
Ha. Bagstone.
hehehe. It's just my posts just get scarry long when I reply to several people.
Good point! I will mention though that legally, because of the end user license agreement (the game is licensed to you not sold), Blizzard could change anything they want in the game while real money is involved. When you buy those Blizzard bucks you aren't trading currency for currency, you are technically buying the right to use X amount of blizzard bucks which Blizzard can take or modify in anyway....... But socially I definitely agree I could see an outrage and it would still be an annoyance for their legal team; removing the AH will help in that regards.
Your right, it should be about finding something cool, but people's minds don't like working that way. The problem is that even when a minority of the population starts using 3rd party sites it will affect the rest of the population- this is afterall a social game. The people that go out and trade and/or buy will be significantly better than the casual player. This in turn causes those casual players to either quit because they can't keep up or begin trading/buying themselves-- this also is the status quo.
What Im getting at here is this: 2 scenarios
Whether or not I agree with your thesis, I think it says a lot about the community that the vocal minority can hold a company like Blizzard hostage in that manner. It's a scenario where the inmates are running the asylum and the opinions of a few, because of how they amplify their voices, end up hurting us all.
That IAS nerf, in retrospect, was 100% legit. It didn't ruin IAS. It didn't make IAS a horrible stat. It just made it "not good enough" that a blue item with perfect IAS was no longer a "top" item. Blizzard was completely justified in making that change, yet it was contentious as anything. Why? Because a couple thousand people shit the bed because they had made RMAH purchases.
As a community we have to stand up to those people because their interests are toxic and self-serving and do not represent the needs of the community at large. They have poisoned the water just as much as anything else. We should not allow the game to be held hostage by that demographic. We should have Blizzard's back when it comes to changing things, even if it means that people who have sunk real-world $$$ into items are up shit's creek.
Yes, as much as Blizz may want to prevent public outcry, I agree with Maka that they really just want to avoid those three sexy words that get any lawyer all twitterpaited. "Bait and Switch"
ever try right clicking a character frame?