Firstly, it has nothing to do with the auction house. In fact, the auction house is probably the best thing to happen to a game like Diablo; the auction house is simply a tool for trading. Trading has always been a big factor in Diablo; looking at Diablo 2, how many of you were able to find your own Windforces/Enigmas/Infinities/etc? Very very few, if none. In order to attain the top level equipment, you -had- to trade for it, and this is really no different in Diablo 3.
The big difference, from my perspective, between the two games (D2 vs D3) comes down to 3 factors:
1) How quick and addicting MF runs were in D2.
This is the big one for me. In D2, you could kill Meph/Pindle/etc. in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
Sure, most of the time they dropped crap but you could simply roll the dice again for minimal time investment. It follows the same principles as the slot machine, you can invest very little for a potentially massive return. It simply makes the player want to pull on that handle again, and again, and again, and again, and... you get the picture. In fact, I dare go out on a limb here and say everyone who's invested more than a few hours into D2 has felt the "I'll do one more run... okay I'll do one more... okay I swear this is the last run... hmm maybe one more" urge to keep playing the game.
In contrast, D3 runs take LONG. The most effective way to MF is by clearing out entire acts at a time. This takes a huge time investment by comparison and is much less rewarding/addicting in terms of game play. In fact, most of the time you're clearing trash to reach those randomly generated rare packs (compare this to MFing in D2 where there's practically no trash, or the trash is completely skippable). This all comes together to make MFing feel like a big annoying grind.
Further, there are times when you've complete a few runs and you get absolutely crap. In D2, this wasn't really a big deal because you've only wasted a few minutes and you could roll for your next chance at wondrous loot in minutes. In D3 however, you've just wasted hours and hours for no return. The mere thought of investing another hour for pure junk makes you want to alt+f4 and never play again. This is primarily the reason myself, and my social circle of gaming nerds have stopped playing D3.
2) There's no reason to level the same class again in Diablo 3.
This one doesn't really need to be explained in detail. Simply put, once you have a level 60 of every class in Diablo 3, there's -absolutely- nothing else to do besides hunt for gear.
3) Open PvP (I can't believe I forgot about this one).
Remember in Diablo 2 where some asshole joins a low level game/run, hostiles everyone and proceeds to gank the living crap out of everyone? As a result, everyone rejoins on their decked out PvP character and the game becomes a complete slug fest? This created a reason for people to have really really geared out characters.
In contrast, PvP does not exist in D3. There's no drive to improve upon your character after you can clear inferno. Further, the watered-down PvP that is being implemented is restricted to arenas in which many people can simply choose not to participate.
TLDR:
1) AH is not the problem
2) D2 had quick addicting MF runs, D3 has long grindy ones
3) No class replay-ability
4) No open PvP = no drive to gear out characters beyond the ability to clear inferno.
myself, and my social circle of gaming nerds have stopped playing D3.
If this is the case, then why are you revisiting a website for a game you've "stopped playing", to let people who are "still playing" know why you have "stopped playing"?
Yes, there are many things Blizzard should've directly translated from D2, why change something that works? I think we're going to see some good changes over the following months though and PvP for starters will hopefully be a success.
Yeah, no. Imagine they kept true to D2. All this whining post about broken and whatever, would instead go like "D3 is the same as D2 with better graphics, blizzard sucks, no creative people left, blablabla, crycrycry, etc"
It way more fun to play an act then to kill the same boss 29 times.
It's not like you couldn't clear an act if you wanted to in D2. The loot yield was pretty much the same as grinding the same boss over and over in certain areas/with a certain amount of MF. The choice was there. In D3 you -have- to invest hours clearing acts/grinding elites.
If this is the case, then why are you revisiting a website for a game you've "stopped playing", to let people who are "still playing" know why you have "stopped playing"?
Nom Nom Nom...don't feed the troll.
I still regularly read diablofans and certain forum discussions came to my awareness. Just because I've stopped playing a game doesn't mean I don't care for it anymore. I still watch competitive broodwars/SC2 even though I haven't touched either games for over a year; I also watched evo this year despite not having played a fighting game in the last few years.
Yeah, no. Imagine they kept true to D2. All this whining post about broken and whatever, would instead go like "D3 is the same as D2 with better graphics, blizzard sucks, no creative people left, blablabla, crycrycry, etc"
D2 was an extremely addictive game that is still alive and kicking today. D3 lacks that same level of addiction.
I have nothing against farming trash mobs or full acts, but you are right, you need to be rewarded at a regular basis... playing for a whole night swapping to mf gear and not seeing one single DECENT drop is deeply revolting...
cya
edit: about hardcore, alot of people are afraid to play because of server lag spikes/crashes... i personally dont think it's worth to play hardcore right now, thats because I live in south america.
On the same note, what's with the troll accusers on these forums nowadays? I swear they're more rampant than the actual trolls. "That guy has an opinion! He must be trolling!"
Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.
It way more fun to play an act then to kill the same boss 29 times.
It's not like you couldn't clear an act if you wanted to in D2. The loot yield was pretty much the same as grinding the same boss over and over in certain areas/with a certain amount of MF. The choice was there. In D3 you -have- to invest hours clearing acts/grinding elites.
If this is the case, then why are you revisiting a website for a game you've "stopped playing", to let people who are "still playing" know why you have "stopped playing"?
Nom Nom Nom...don't feed the troll.
I still regularly read diablofans and certain forum discussions came to my awareness. Just because I've stopped playing a game doesn't mean I don't care for it anymore. I still watch competitive broodwars/SC2 even though I haven't touched either games for over a year; I also watched evo this year despite not having played a fighting game in the last few years.
Yeah, no. Imagine they kept true to D2. All this whining post about broken and whatever, would instead go like "D3 is the same as D2 with better graphics, blizzard sucks, no creative people left, blablabla, crycrycry, etc"
D2 was an extremely addictive game that is still alive and kicking today. D3 lacks that same level of addiction.
So? i'm saying people would whine anyway, because that's what people do
On the same note, what's with the troll accusers on these forums nowadays? I swear they're more rampant than the actual trolls. "That guy has an opinion! He must be trolling!"
Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.
Lag isn't as bad unless your like the above poster who lives in South America, I sympathize. The rubber banding has been fixed or at least I haven't noticed any issues since the fix. Calling hardcore a waste of time is trivial; I can make the same statement about playing video games, in the end you just wasting your time to something that won't amount to anything significant in life. I can then state life really has no meaning either so what you do with your time doesn't matter.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
On the same note, what's with the troll accusers on these forums nowadays? I swear they're more rampant than the actual trolls. "That guy has an opinion! He must be trolling!"
Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.
Lag isn't as bad unless your like the above poster who lives in South America, I sympathize. The rubber banding has been fixed or at least I haven't noticed any issues since the fix. Calling hardcore a waste of time is trivial; I can make the same statement about playing video games, in the end you just wasting your time to something that won't amount to anything significant in life. I can then state life really has no meaning either so what you do with your time doesn't matter.
I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota/FPS, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.
I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.
Except for the fun and challenge of actually playing but since you cannot measure said value it's worthless just like a smile right? As for the making money part have you made million? What was that no? Well I guess your example doesn't apply to you so you just wasted your time.
I rather not get too deeply into this either but using "hardcore as a waste of time" for an excuse is pretty lame. A simple explanation of "I don't like/appreciate hardcore so your suggestion doesn't work for me" would suffice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.
Except for the fun and challenge of actually playing but since you cannot measure said value it's worthless just like a smile right? As for the making money part have you made million? What was that no? Well I guess your example doesn't apply to you so you just wasted your time.
I rather not get too deeply into this either but using "hardcore as a waste of time" for an excuse is pretty lame. A simple explanation of "I don't like/appreciate hardcore so your suggestion doesn't work for me" would suffice.
I haven't made millions, but I have made thousands.
I'm gonna shed some light on a few things for you:
- Elvis is not still alive
- There is no Loch Ness Monster
- The world isn't going to end on December 21st 2012
- Diablo 3 is neither broken, nor dying
Actually, I'm not positive about the first 3, but the fourth one is a fact!
Seriously, there are people who actually enjoy the game. Calling something, which has only been out for a few months, and has a VERY large amount of people playing, broken, is just an obvious cry for attention.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nerd: When you say it, you best say it with awe,
'Cause I'm the type of nerd that will bust your jaw.
True, I did play for just boss runs, true, I did level up same class just to try out different specs, true, it was fun PVPing and joining games to gank lowbies, D3 broken, not true, just don't have final version yet
On the same note, what's with the troll accusers on these forums nowadays? I swear they're more rampant than the actual trolls. "That guy has an opinion! He must be trolling!"
Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.
Lag isn't as bad unless your like the above poster who lives in South America, I sympathize. The rubber banding has been fixed or at least I haven't noticed any issues since the fix. Calling hardcore a waste of time is trivial; I can make the same statement about playing video games, in the end you just wasting your time to something that won't amount to anything significant in life. I can then state life really has no meaning either so what you do with your time doesn't matter.
I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota/FPS, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.
I'm going to ignore the RMAH benefits for this discussion, as it's a fairly unique thing and something many don't actively participate in.
Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.
Your argument that D2 farming was more attractive due to the quick-flip nature of games has merit. There are a lot of human pscyhological factors at play that lead to the various feelings of disdain or enjoyment of the newest iteration of Diablo. With that said, this isn't supposed to be a shinier Diablo 2. It's an entirely new game, and despite some feeling they've been alienated by not having an exactly clone with better graphics produced, that fact will remain the same; with that comes fresh ideas - some of which will succeed, others will fail.
With all that said, the reason people are calling shit like this trolling is because it's the 9372849287th time it's been posted, and rather than consolidating it to a thread where this exact same discussion is already taking place, we now have a rehashed version to wade through and make the exact same comments we've already made 92759752 times before.
Actually, you're right. This is more of a list of my grievances with the game, rather than the game actually being completely broken.
Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.
And this is where you are wrong. People play games for different reasons. A lot of people don't play just to "have fun" and screw around. Many people play to win, others play to make money, some play because they like having their efforts rewarded in the end. This is where hardcore falls flat.
Note: I do not deny that some people enjoy wasting their own times, and from that enjoyment they derive a sense of satisfaction with hardcore diablo. I, however, am not one of these people.
1) How quick and addicting MF runs were in D2.
This is the big one for me. In D2, you could kill Meph/Pindle/etc. in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
Sure, most of the time they dropped crap but you could simply roll the dice again for minimal time investment. It follows the same principles as the slot machine, you can invest very little for a potentially massive return. It simply makes the player want to pull on that handle again, and again, and again, and again, and... you get the picture. In fact, I dare go out on a limb here and say everyone who's invested more than a few hours into D2 has felt the "I'll do one more run... okay I'll do one more... okay I swear this is the last run... hmm maybe one more" urge to keep playing the game.
1. regarding your first point, the reason is because of the auction house, because drop rates of good items had to be reduced so high end items weren't worth total crap. If drop rates scaled to D2's fun drop rates, uniques (assuming they were good) would sell for 20k gold. Also, the reason why you have to play so long for optimal mfing has to do with the AH as well (RMAH this time), because its easy to write a script bot and do a short, simple task over and over. They didn't care in D2, but with the RMAH, they have to care, so there is no way you can have a short fun mf run game. What, festering woods? Good idea, oh wait, game creation limit, darn. Let me preempt the troll by not taking the bridge here, I'll argue that while yes, botting made d2 bad, its better than having the fun of being able to find good items being taken away by having minuscule drop rates. At least in D2 you could choose to play without trading with botters, but in D3 the low drop rate forces you to not have as much fun.
2. Its funny that the OP states that HC is a waste of time, because I feel that SC is a waste of time (personal preference). I played about 15 minutes of SC in D3, and about 400 hours of HC (on my 5th lvl 60 monk, heh). Besides the horrible lag and rubberbanding deaths, its infinitely more fun than SC for me.
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The big difference, from my perspective, between the two games (D2 vs D3) comes down to 3 factors:
1) How quick and addicting MF runs were in D2.
This is the big one for me. In D2, you could kill Meph/Pindle/etc. in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
Sure, most of the time they dropped crap but you could simply roll the dice again for minimal time investment. It follows the same principles as the slot machine, you can invest very little for a potentially massive return. It simply makes the player want to pull on that handle again, and again, and again, and again, and... you get the picture. In fact, I dare go out on a limb here and say everyone who's invested more than a few hours into D2 has felt the "I'll do one more run... okay I'll do one more... okay I swear this is the last run... hmm maybe one more" urge to keep playing the game.
In contrast, D3 runs take LONG. The most effective way to MF is by clearing out entire acts at a time. This takes a huge time investment by comparison and is much less rewarding/addicting in terms of game play. In fact, most of the time you're clearing trash to reach those randomly generated rare packs (compare this to MFing in D2 where there's practically no trash, or the trash is completely skippable). This all comes together to make MFing feel like a big annoying grind.
Further, there are times when you've complete a few runs and you get absolutely crap. In D2, this wasn't really a big deal because you've only wasted a few minutes and you could roll for your next chance at wondrous loot in minutes. In D3 however, you've just wasted hours and hours for no return. The mere thought of investing another hour for pure junk makes you want to alt+f4 and never play again. This is primarily the reason myself, and my social circle of gaming nerds have stopped playing D3.
2) There's no reason to level the same class again in Diablo 3.
This one doesn't really need to be explained in detail. Simply put, once you have a level 60 of every class in Diablo 3, there's -absolutely- nothing else to do besides hunt for gear.
3) Open PvP (I can't believe I forgot about this one).
Remember in Diablo 2 where some asshole joins a low level game/run, hostiles everyone and proceeds to gank the living crap out of everyone? As a result, everyone rejoins on their decked out PvP character and the game becomes a complete slug fest? This created a reason for people to have really really geared out characters.
In contrast, PvP does not exist in D3. There's no drive to improve upon your character after you can clear inferno. Further, the watered-down PvP that is being implemented is restricted to arenas in which many people can simply choose not to participate.
TLDR:
1) AH is not the problem
2) D2 had quick addicting MF runs, D3 has long grindy ones
3) No class replay-ability
4) No open PvP = no drive to gear out characters beyond the ability to clear inferno.
Nom Nom Nom...don't feed the troll.
They should have had PvP and other end game mechanics at release but they didn't now we wait for patch, come back in a few months.
If you want re-playability play hardcore.
It's not like you couldn't clear an act if you wanted to in D2. The loot yield was pretty much the same as grinding the same boss over and over in certain areas/with a certain amount of MF. The choice was there. In D3 you -have- to invest hours clearing acts/grinding elites.
I still regularly read diablofans and certain forum discussions came to my awareness. Just because I've stopped playing a game doesn't mean I don't care for it anymore. I still watch competitive broodwars/SC2 even though I haven't touched either games for over a year; I also watched evo this year despite not having played a fighting game in the last few years.
Yeah, no. Imagine they kept true to D2. All this whining post about broken and whatever, would instead go like "D3 is the same as D2 with better graphics, blizzard sucks, no creative people left, blablabla, crycrycry, etc"
D2 was an extremely addictive game that is still alive and kicking today. D3 lacks that same level of addiction.
I have nothing against farming trash mobs or full acts, but you are right, you need to be rewarded at a regular basis... playing for a whole night swapping to mf gear and not seeing one single DECENT drop is deeply revolting...
cya
edit: about hardcore, alot of people are afraid to play because of server lag spikes/crashes... i personally dont think it's worth to play hardcore right now, thats because I live in south america.
Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.
Lag isn't as bad unless your like the above poster who lives in South America, I sympathize. The rubber banding has been fixed or at least I haven't noticed any issues since the fix. Calling hardcore a waste of time is trivial; I can make the same statement about playing video games, in the end you just wasting your time to something that won't amount to anything significant in life. I can then state life really has no meaning either so what you do with your time doesn't matter.
I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota/FPS, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.
Except for the fun and challenge of actually playing but since you cannot measure said value it's worthless just like a smile right? As for the making money part have you made million? What was that no? Well I guess your example doesn't apply to you so you just wasted your time.
I rather not get too deeply into this either but using "hardcore as a waste of time" for an excuse is pretty lame. A simple explanation of "I don't like/appreciate hardcore so your suggestion doesn't work for me" would suffice.
I haven't made millions, but I have made thousands.
- Elvis is not still alive
- There is no Loch Ness Monster
- The world isn't going to end on December 21st 2012
- Diablo 3 is neither broken, nor dying
Actually, I'm not positive about the first 3, but the fourth one is a fact!
Seriously, there are people who actually enjoy the game. Calling something, which has only been out for a few months, and has a VERY large amount of people playing, broken, is just an obvious cry for attention.
'Cause I'm the type of nerd that will bust your jaw.
I'm going to ignore the RMAH benefits for this discussion, as it's a fairly unique thing and something many don't actively participate in.
Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.
Your argument that D2 farming was more attractive due to the quick-flip nature of games has merit. There are a lot of human pscyhological factors at play that lead to the various feelings of disdain or enjoyment of the newest iteration of Diablo. With that said, this isn't supposed to be a shinier Diablo 2. It's an entirely new game, and despite some feeling they've been alienated by not having an exactly clone with better graphics produced, that fact will remain the same; with that comes fresh ideas - some of which will succeed, others will fail.
With all that said, the reason people are calling shit like this trolling is because it's the 9372849287th time it's been posted, and rather than consolidating it to a thread where this exact same discussion is already taking place, we now have a rehashed version to wade through and make the exact same comments we've already made 92759752 times before.
Actually, you're right. This is more of a list of my grievances with the game, rather than the game actually being completely broken.
And this is where you are wrong. People play games for different reasons. A lot of people don't play just to "have fun" and screw around. Many people play to win, others play to make money, some play because they like having their efforts rewarded in the end. This is where hardcore falls flat.
Note: I do not deny that some people enjoy wasting their own times, and from that enjoyment they derive a sense of satisfaction with hardcore diablo. I, however, am not one of these people.
1. regarding your first point, the reason is because of the auction house, because drop rates of good items had to be reduced so high end items weren't worth total crap. If drop rates scaled to D2's fun drop rates, uniques (assuming they were good) would sell for 20k gold. Also, the reason why you have to play so long for optimal mfing has to do with the AH as well (RMAH this time), because its easy to write a script bot and do a short, simple task over and over. They didn't care in D2, but with the RMAH, they have to care, so there is no way you can have a short fun mf run game. What, festering woods? Good idea, oh wait, game creation limit, darn. Let me preempt the troll by not taking the bridge here, I'll argue that while yes, botting made d2 bad, its better than having the fun of being able to find good items being taken away by having minuscule drop rates. At least in D2 you could choose to play without trading with botters, but in D3 the low drop rate forces you to not have as much fun.
2. Its funny that the OP states that HC is a waste of time, because I feel that SC is a waste of time (personal preference). I played about 15 minutes of SC in D3, and about 400 hours of HC (on my 5th lvl 60 monk, heh). Besides the horrible lag and rubberbanding deaths, its infinitely more fun than SC for me.