I'm posting this in General Discussion because the majority of the discussions currently in General Discussion are criticizing Diablo 3 in some way (which is fine - good or bad - whatever), but many of the points brought up point to stats only being useful for this or that class.
The base stats in Diablo 3 benefit all 5 classes in some way. Please refer to the "Fundamentals" section of the Game Guide over at the official Diablo 3 site. And I quote:
Strength: The primary attribute for Barbarians. Strength increases Barbarian damage, and increases Armor for all classes.
Dexterity: The primary attribute for Demon Hunters and Monks. Dexterity increases Demon Hunter and Monk damage, and increases Dodge Chance for all classes.
Intelligence: The primary attribute for Witch Doctors and Wizards. Intelligence increases Witch Doctor and Wizard damage, and increases resistances for all classes.
All stats help everyone to some degree, so hopefully this might help some Barbs not be so disappointed when they get an item with Int on it, or if a Wizard gets something with Strength on it (Strength boosts Armor, Armor reduces the amount of damage taken from enemy attacks, this helps Wizard survive just even that little bit more).
One point I forgot to also include is that you can go into the game options and enable "Advanced Tooltips" in the Gameplay section. That way when you mouse over one of your stats in your character screen, you can see EXACTLY how much your base stats are affecting your other stats.
It's true that they all do something for every class, but out-of-class stats also aren't anything like a priority. From here, intelligence affixes seem to max out at 150 or 15 resist all. However, resist all affixes seem to max out at 80. So while I would rather have int than nothing as a Barbarian, I'd still prefer it had some other affix (strength, armor, resist all, vitality, extra health from globes, sockets, x on hit, faster attack speed, extra min/max damage, etc.) which would be more useful to me.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
It's true that they all do something for every class, but out-of-class stats also aren't anything like a priority. From here, intelligence affixes seem to max out at 150 or 15 resist all. However, resist all affixes seem to max out at 80. So while I would rather have int than nothing as a Barbarian, I'd still prefer it had some other affix (strength, armor, resist all, vitality, extra health from globes, sockets, x on hit, faster attack speed, extra min/max damage, etc.) which would be more useful to me.
Of course your main stat is better than a different class' main stat, and thank you for reinforcing that Intelligence is in fact useful to a Barbarian. There's always something more preferable, but my point is to the arguments that "OMG MY WIZ GOT A STR ITEM HOW UTTERLY USELSS" because I honestly think many people do not realize that every stat actually benefits every character in some way. You've obviously done some reading. *claps!*
They add bonuses, but they are so minuscule that it's hard to justify using that instead of your primary stat. If your a monk and you have an item with 50 str (50 armor) and 50 dex, and an item with 100 dex the difference is like .5% damage reducing or 50% increase in damage and the choice is obvious.
You can't say people are complaining that a wizard is using an item with strength on it, because it may very well be an item with vit, int, and str. If the wizard is using an item with just str on it then they are either a very low level and have no other option, or they are just using bad gear.
I feel like the idea of a primary stat doesn't work well with diablo, because half the time your finding an item that isn't useful to you just because that stat is designed for another class and it just takes away from the fun of loot hunt. Maybe its superficial, but i'd rather say this item is bad then this item is good for another class.
They add bonuses, but they are so minuscule that it's hard to justify using that instead of your primary stat. If your a monk and you have an item with 50 str (50 armor) and 50 dex, and an item with 100 dex the difference is like .5% damage reducing or 50% increase in damage and the choice is obvious.
You can't say people are complaining that a wizard is using an item with strength on it, because it may very well be an item with vit, int, and str. If the wizard is using an item with just str on it then they are either a very low level and have no other option, or they are just using bad gear.
I feel like the idea of a primary stat doesn't work well with diablo, because half the time your finding an item that isn't useful to you just because that stat is designed for another class and it just takes away from the fun of loot hunt. Maybe its superficial, but i'd rather say this item is bad then this item is good for another class.
I'm not saying to NOT take a primary stat. I'm saying that just because every stat isn't your main stats doesn't make them useless.
And now I suppose we can go on further splitting hairs and conclude that useful/useless is subjective to the player's perception of their situation, or if we have item specifics, we can do the math down to the nearest .01% and definitively conclude item x is better than item y for class z. You're missing the point of this thread. If it was meant for in-depth theorycrafting analysis, it would be in the appropriate forum instead...
Of course your main stat is better than a different class' main stat, and thank you for reinforcing that Intelligence is in fact useful to a Barbarian. There's always something more preferable, but my point is to the arguments that "OMG MY WIZ GOT A STR ITEM HOW UTTERLY USELSS" because I honestly think many people do not realize that every stat actually benefits every character in some way. You've obviously done some reading. *claps!*
Yeah, if this is just a PSA that out-of-class stats give a small defensive bonus, then yeah, I'm probably not your target audience. I just didn't want anyone to be confused into thinking that they should be stacking all four primary stats to the exclusion of secondary stats or something.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
Of course your main stat is better than a different class' main stat, and thank you for reinforcing that Intelligence is in fact useful to a Barbarian. There's always something more preferable, but my point is to the arguments that "OMG MY WIZ GOT A STR ITEM HOW UTTERLY USELSS" because I honestly think many people do not realize that every stat actually benefits every character in some way. You've obviously done some reading. *claps!*
Yeah, if this is just a PSA that out-of-class stats give a small defensive bonus, then yeah, I'm probably not your target audience. I just didn't want anyone to be confused into thinking that they should be stacking all four primary stats to the exclusion of secondary stats or something.
Thanks, I had no idea. Too bad this info is nowhere to be found in-game.
It is, it's just not made obvious to people. For casual players that only play 1 or 2 difficulties, it's not terribly relevant. In any case, go into your game options and enable 'Advanced Tooltips'. Then mouse over your stats on your character screen and you'll see what else your stats are doing for you besides just increasing damage.
They add bonuses, but they are so minuscule that it's hard to justify using that instead of your primary stat. If your a monk and you have an item with 50 str (50 armor) and 50 dex, and an item with 100 dex the difference is like .5% damage reducing or 50% increase in damage and the choice is obvious.
You can't say people are complaining that a wizard is using an item with strength on it, because it may very well be an item with vit, int, and str. If the wizard is using an item with just str on it then they are either a very low level and have no other option, or they are just using bad gear.
I feel like the idea of a primary stat doesn't work well with diablo, because half the time your finding an item that isn't useful to you just because that stat is designed for another class and it just takes away from the fun of loot hunt. Maybe its superficial, but i'd rather say this item is bad then this item is good for another class.
Stats do not increase your damage by %. It's % over a certain smaller base so it's not as powerful as you think. 1% damage reduction easilly outdo +30~40 DPs imo (provided by something like +100 in your main stat stats). To survive in Inferno you need like 1kk effective HP which means every 1% damage reduction you get is extremely important.
I was being sarcastic, and I admit it was a bit rude since you're only trying to help. But I think stuff like this is pretty obvious to people who spend time on a site dedicated to Diablo.
Well, the itemization arguments (referring to non-legendary) usually seem to have a significant emphasis on not getting useful stats. I think it is because a significant number of people (yes, even here at a dedicated Diablo site!) don't realize that Intelligence just might be useful to their Demon Hunter. So, they run through the game looking for Vit + Dex, find all this garbage that hardly gets the two together, then come crying into the forums "OMG D3 ITEMS SUCK WTF BLIZZ", know what I mean? Tha'ts not to say non-legendary itemization is or isn't an issue, but I think this message is often lost to the point of really misunderstanding the significance of all stats in those discussions, and I think many players that would be privy to said discussions would surely benefit knowing this information.
Stats do not increase your damage by %. It's % over a certain smaller base so it's not as powerful as you think. 1% damage reduction easilly outdo +30~40 DPs imo (provided by something like +100 in your main stat stats). To survive in Inferno you need like 1kk effective HP which means every 1% damage reduction you get is extremely important.
I'm not sure on the specific's and I know it's not a flat out 50% increase in your damage, I worded it pretty badly. I think it's each point of your primary stat increases the damage based on your weapon by 1%. So if were talking about later game here and you have a weapon with high dps like 1000. So 50 of that primary stat would be like another 500 added to your damage. I'm not sure how defense scales at 60, but I doubt that 50 armor from str points would be even close then .1% reduction. 1% damage reduction is defiantly better then like 30-40 damage, but I feel like the damage gain would out weigh what defense you would get from other stats, and lets not forget your primary stat has smaller bonuses of its own just making it better. Either way I still dislike the idea of primary stats in a game like diablo, its just not fun to find items that aren't good for you because your not the right class, especially in single player.
But the OP just wanted to let people know that those stats existed, and I thought he was trying to say they were just as good as primary stats so my mistake
Also, don't forget that, if you're a WD, stacking Int will give you damage PLUS resistances, so a lot of your survivability is already 'included' when you increase your damage via your main stat, thus making the other two stats much less useful, to the point of being almost ignorable.
You are overstating the "insignificance" of the other stats. Once again, this isn't a theorycrafting thread or forum, so I suggest you go read or post a question about the details in theorycrafting and get your facts straight. Of course Intelligence is the most useful to a WD, but any player would do well to not dismiss Strength so heavily as you seem to convey with your statement, and yes, even as a WD!
I can't understand why ppl are so bothered with this primary stat thing. In every game certain stats favor certain characters.
It's not like each class only make use of it's primary stat. Everyone make use of vit, armor, attack speed, lifesteal, pick up radius, critical hit rate, critical hit damage, stum/blind chances, hp regen , etc...
Never saw anyone QQing in D2 why 80% of the affixes were utterly useless for necros, sorcs and elemental druids (and hammerdinds).
Not to mention STR was useless for necros, sorcs, elemental druids, most zons and hammerdins.
DEX was useless for everyone but bow zons.
ENE was uselesss for everyone but ES sorcs.
Seriously i dunno wtf you're talking about when you evoke D2 as bases for "well done" stats.
But the OP just wanted to let people know that those stats existed, and I thought he was trying to say they were just as good as primary stats so my mistake
Correct. Also, based on your saying how unsure you are about this or that number, I recommend you go check out the actual mathematical facts behind the attribute system. Int provides resistance, but Str provides Armor which mitigates ALL damage meaning it is the same thing as "resist all".
For me personally, the more I read into it, the more I am REALLY enjoying what they've done with stats. Until you get into the math, you just don't understand how beautifully crafted the itemization actually is. And the numbers make the most sense when you apply them on an Inferno level. Though they are applicable at Normal, the actual numbers crunching has so much more impact and makes so much more sense when you look at it with Inferno numbers.
I stack dex instead of armor for barb and i dodge like a boss with 46% rate. I bet 99% of barb doesn't stack dex simply because it does not add to dps and then complain about the difficulty.
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The base stats in Diablo 3 benefit all 5 classes in some way. Please refer to the "Fundamentals" section of the Game Guide over at the official Diablo 3 site. And I quote:
All stats help everyone to some degree, so hopefully this might help some Barbs not be so disappointed when they get an item with Int on it, or if a Wizard gets something with Strength on it (Strength boosts Armor, Armor reduces the amount of damage taken from enemy attacks, this helps Wizard survive just even that little bit more).
http://us.battle.net...tals#attributes
Happy hunting!
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Of course your main stat is better than a different class' main stat, and thank you for reinforcing that Intelligence is in fact useful to a Barbarian. There's always something more preferable, but my point is to the arguments that "OMG MY WIZ GOT A STR ITEM HOW UTTERLY USELSS" because I honestly think many people do not realize that every stat actually benefits every character in some way. You've obviously done some reading. *claps!*
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You can't say people are complaining that a wizard is using an item with strength on it, because it may very well be an item with vit, int, and str. If the wizard is using an item with just str on it then they are either a very low level and have no other option, or they are just using bad gear.
I feel like the idea of a primary stat doesn't work well with diablo, because half the time your finding an item that isn't useful to you just because that stat is designed for another class and it just takes away from the fun of loot hunt. Maybe its superficial, but i'd rather say this item is bad then this item is good for another class.
I'm not saying to NOT take a primary stat. I'm saying that just because every stat isn't your main stats doesn't make them useless.
And now I suppose we can go on further splitting hairs and conclude that useful/useless is subjective to the player's perception of their situation, or if we have item specifics, we can do the math down to the nearest .01% and definitively conclude item x is better than item y for class z. You're missing the point of this thread. If it was meant for in-depth theorycrafting analysis, it would be in the appropriate forum instead...
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Yeah, if this is just a PSA that out-of-class stats give a small defensive bonus, then yeah, I'm probably not your target audience. I just didn't want anyone to be confused into thinking that they should be stacking all four primary stats to the exclusion of secondary stats or something.
Word. +1'd
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It is, it's just not made obvious to people. For casual players that only play 1 or 2 difficulties, it's not terribly relevant. In any case, go into your game options and enable 'Advanced Tooltips'. Then mouse over your stats on your character screen and you'll see what else your stats are doing for you besides just increasing damage.
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Stats do not increase your damage by %. It's % over a certain smaller base so it's not as powerful as you think. 1% damage reduction easilly outdo +30~40 DPs imo (provided by something like +100 in your main stat stats). To survive in Inferno you need like 1kk effective HP which means every 1% damage reduction you get is extremely important.
Well, the itemization arguments (referring to non-legendary) usually seem to have a significant emphasis on not getting useful stats. I think it is because a significant number of people (yes, even here at a dedicated Diablo site!) don't realize that Intelligence just might be useful to their Demon Hunter. So, they run through the game looking for Vit + Dex, find all this garbage that hardly gets the two together, then come crying into the forums "OMG D3 ITEMS SUCK WTF BLIZZ", know what I mean? Tha'ts not to say non-legendary itemization is or isn't an issue, but I think this message is often lost to the point of really misunderstanding the significance of all stats in those discussions, and I think many players that would be privy to said discussions would surely benefit knowing this information.
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I'm not sure on the specific's and I know it's not a flat out 50% increase in your damage, I worded it pretty badly. I think it's each point of your primary stat increases the damage based on your weapon by 1%. So if were talking about later game here and you have a weapon with high dps like 1000. So 50 of that primary stat would be like another 500 added to your damage. I'm not sure how defense scales at 60, but I doubt that 50 armor from str points would be even close then .1% reduction. 1% damage reduction is defiantly better then like 30-40 damage, but I feel like the damage gain would out weigh what defense you would get from other stats, and lets not forget your primary stat has smaller bonuses of its own just making it better. Either way I still dislike the idea of primary stats in a game like diablo, its just not fun to find items that aren't good for you because your not the right class, especially in single player.
But the OP just wanted to let people know that those stats existed, and I thought he was trying to say they were just as good as primary stats so my mistake
You are overstating the "insignificance" of the other stats. Once again, this isn't a theorycrafting thread or forum, so I suggest you go read or post a question about the details in theorycrafting and get your facts straight. Of course Intelligence is the most useful to a WD, but any player would do well to not dismiss Strength so heavily as you seem to convey with your statement, and yes, even as a WD!
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It's not like each class only make use of it's primary stat. Everyone make use of vit, armor, attack speed, lifesteal, pick up radius, critical hit rate, critical hit damage, stum/blind chances, hp regen , etc...
Never saw anyone QQing in D2 why 80% of the affixes were utterly useless for necros, sorcs and elemental druids (and hammerdinds).
Not to mention STR was useless for necros, sorcs, elemental druids, most zons and hammerdins.
DEX was useless for everyone but bow zons.
ENE was uselesss for everyone but ES sorcs.
Seriously i dunno wtf you're talking about when you evoke D2 as bases for "well done" stats.
Correct. Also, based on your saying how unsure you are about this or that number, I recommend you go check out the actual mathematical facts behind the attribute system. Int provides resistance, but Str provides Armor which mitigates ALL damage meaning it is the same thing as "resist all".
For me personally, the more I read into it, the more I am REALLY enjoying what they've done with stats. Until you get into the math, you just don't understand how beautifully crafted the itemization actually is. And the numbers make the most sense when you apply them on an Inferno level. Though they are applicable at Normal, the actual numbers crunching has so much more impact and makes so much more sense when you look at it with Inferno numbers.
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