interesting...if the drops are determined by your %mf - how does it work when your party member kills a monster does the drop from that monster also come from ''your'' %mf... if that makes sense? :/
with these changes i guess public games will have few ppl cause everybody will farm solo or with realid friends and they will know how much +mf +gf etc everybody has to divide.
If you seriously think that, then you must of been one of the people planning on just leeching on other people.
The only people this change hurts is leechers, and ya know what.. Fuckem!!
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I think this is, like Blizzard has become expert at, just them taking the easy way out.
Frankly, this is annoying. There is already NO point in team games besides killing things faster, but now in a 4 player game you're actually going to get a lot less magical items with a lot of magic find.
I wouldn't dare talk numbers, but still. This sounds to me like its encouraging solo play even more and frankly, this makes playing with strangers an even more bothersome experience. You just gave me one more reason to stick to myself.
What? This doesn't lessen the amount of drops for the group as a whole. It DOES lessen the amount of good drops for a single person in a pug, but as far as playing with a group, the amount of MF is still the same, it's just spread across. If you play with friends, then this won't matter at all.
And yes, Diablo is a solo game. Playing with others is a very fun aspect, but not required.
I think the division of MF, GF and XP is a good move on Blizz's part. This means jimbob who just wants to have 3 other people carry him because he is stacked to the eyeballs with MF is going to compensate the others by having his MF shared with the party.
This will hopefully kill off the leecher mentality (proli wont stop it but it should make them want to stick to solo play)
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Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
If I have the most MF AND Best or near best dps. Then I'm really getting screwed.
Well not entirely... parties still kill monsters faster I guess.
Yes if we assume you are the best player ever, and even with shit gear you can still do the most dmg, then are you getting screwed. Problem is we made 2 false assumptions to start with to get to that conclusion....
If everyone else in your group sucks, and you somehow know that, hen you are free to leave.
As I said before, this change hurts absolutely no one but the leechers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Not having played the beta and stayed away from the news for quite some time I may be dated in my understanding. I am curious how the individual drops have been integrated because I see this as an important component in the mf/loot/farming group vs solo play discussion.
As I understand, each player gets and sees their own drops, without being able to see the drops of the other players in the group. What I don't know--and everyone else might not know this yet as well--is how the quantity of monster drops scales with the number of players in a game... I realize this is unclear so let me propose an example.
Say a solo player kills 500 monsters which inhabit an area and each monster has a 2% chance to drop some wearable loot. On average said player should find 10 items every time he clears said area (these numbers are all used for ease of mathematics as I have no idea what actual drop rates and monster populations will be). So: one player, 500 monsters, 2% drop rate => 10 items
Now imagine a group of 4 players kills the same 500 monsters, how many items does each player find? Are four times as many items drop so each player gets 10? Does each drop the same number of items so each player gets 2.5? Somewhere in between?
My understanding from D2 was that the number of players in the game improved the quality of the items which were dropped fairly considerably while not having such a strong effect on the number of items dropped (per monster)--Hell Baal dropped 4-6 items almost every time he died (maybe 1-2 fewer items soloing vs a full 8 player game), but in the game of 8 he tended to way better gear. Will the opposite be true in D3?
As far as I understand, the skeleton king is the "boss," if you will, of the beta and reliably drops decent loot. I don't know the exact details and hope someone can fill me in, but assume that a solo player killing him receives one rare, one magic item, and two normal items. My question to the community is: if a pack of 4 players kills him, how much decent loot does each player get? Does each player get a rare, a magic item and 2 normal items? Are the same 4 items split between the players so everyone gets one? Does he drop 6-8 items so everyone gets 1 or 2 items?
I feel that the answer is hugely significant in this discussion because if he drops the rare, magic, and 2 normal items for each player, then it is advantageous (from an efficiency standpoint) to MF in groups if he can reliably be killed faster by a team of 4 than one player soloing.
How dropped loot quality and quantity [as well as game difficulty] scales with player party size is highly significant to this discussion of how MF sharing or calculations will effect the viability of magic-finding in groups vs alone <-- My point
Can anyone share their observations from the beta or information known from blizzard representatives?
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All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
- Ernest Rutherford
I'm fine with this change because it will keep one person from wearing crappy gear with tons of MF on it while everyone else has to be able to kill and survive. This isn't going to be like Diablo 2 where you could have one paladin soloing hell runs for you. Everyone needs to contribute. This will keep people from wanting to stack MF as much as they can at everyone elses expense.
I'm fine with this change because it will keep one person from wearing crappy gear with tons of MF on it while everyone else has to be able to kill and survive. This isn't going to be like Diablo 2 where you could have one paladin soloing hell runs for you. Everyone needs to contribute. This will keep people from wanting to stack MF as much as they can at everyone elses expense.
Yep agreed; but so far in the beta, it has encouraged me not to run public games with my GF set. Since I can essentially clear monsters at the same rate as 4 people, even in my full GF (again, a limitation of the beta).
What do you guys think about if the 'highest' person's MF/GF was given to the group?
Ahh its retarded?!? Thats an even more exploitable system.
Do you really need some massive incentive to play with other people? Are you guys really that anti-social?
I agree with you about the changes, don't get me wrong (lol calm down on the hostility, were on the same side). But I still want to make the point that in D2, MF runs were mostly solo, and that will probably be the same in D3 regardless of this change. I mean, I'm glad it stops leechers for sure, but at the same time, it's kind of a bummer when I spent X weeks getting 180GF to have it split with random pubbies who could care less. Whether or not they help me kill faster will have to be seen though (in inferno).
I'm fine with this change because it will keep one person from wearing crappy gear with tons of MF on it while everyone else has to be able to kill and survive. This isn't going to be like Diablo 2 where you could have one paladin soloing hell runs for you. Everyone needs to contribute. This will keep people from wanting to stack MF as much as they can at everyone elses expense.
Yep agreed; but so far in the beta, it has encouraged me not to run public games with my GF set. Since I can essentially clear monsters at the same rate as 4 people, even in my full GF (again, a limitation of the beta).
What do you guys think about if the 'highest' person's MF/GF was given to the group?
Ahh its retarded?!? Thats an even more exploitable system.
Do you really need some massive incentive to play with other people? Are you guys really that anti-social?
I agree with you about the changes, don't get me wrong (lol calm down on the hostility, were on the same side). But I still want to make the point that in D2, MF runs were mostly solo, and that will probably be the same in D3 regardless of this change. I mean, I'm glad it stops leechers for sure, but at the same time, it's kind of a bummer when I spent X weeks getting 180GF to have it split with random pubbies who could care less. Whether or not they help me kill faster will have to be seen though (in inferno).
But if you and 3 mates all had MF at simular % then granted you might be grinding a helluva lot slower in pace but at least you would be able to keep ya MF high. Granted we dont know enough about Infeno so that may (and more than likely) not be possible. At the end of the day no matter how it pans out, this change is all for the good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
I'm fine with this change because it will keep one person from wearing crappy gear with tons of MF on it while everyone else has to be able to kill and survive. This isn't going to be like Diablo 2 where you could have one paladin soloing hell runs for you. Everyone needs to contribute. This will keep people from wanting to stack MF as much as they can at everyone elses expense.
Yep agreed; but so far in the beta, it has encouraged me not to run public games with my GF set. Since I can essentially clear monsters at the same rate as 4 people, even in my full GF (again, a limitation of the beta).
What do you guys think about if the 'highest' person's MF/GF was given to the group?
Ahh its retarded?!? Thats an even more exploitable system.
Do you really need some massive incentive to play with other people? Are you guys really that anti-social?
I agree with you about the changes, don't get me wrong (lol calm down on the hostility, were on the same side). But I still want to make the point that in D2, MF runs were mostly solo, and that will probably be the same in D3 regardless of this change. I mean, I'm glad it stops leechers for sure, but at the same time, it's kind of a bummer when I spent X weeks getting 180GF to have it split with random pubbies who could care less. Whether or not they help me kill faster will have to be seen though (in inferno).
But if you and 3 mates all had MF at simular % then granted you might be grinding a helluva lot slower in pace but at least you would be able to keep ya MF high. Granted we dont know enough about Infeno so that may (and more than likely) not be possible. At the end of the day no matter how it pans out, this change is all for the good.
Say a solo player kills 500 monsters which inhabit an area and each monster has a 2% chance to drop some wearable loot. On average said player should find 10 items every time he clears said area (these numbers are all used for ease of mathematics as I have no idea what actual drop rates and monster populations will be). So: one player, 500 monsters, 2% drop rate => 10 items
Now imagine a group of 4 players kills the same 500 monsters, how many items does each player find? Are four times as many items drop so each player gets 10? Does each drop the same number of items so each player gets 2.5? Somewhere in between?
Each player will get 10 items. This works pretty much in the same way as it did in D2, minus the fact that every player now has their own loot. The item quantity dropped from a boss increased proportionally to the number of players that were present in the party because each player should still be getting as much as they did if they were running solo.
Oh and I'm loving this change, and watching as some people complain about it, because we all know they were going to be leeching their hearts out with the old system. Tough luck boys.
Vote kick is all they needed to solve the leech problem.
No, it isn't. With the way the system would've been, so many people would be tempted into leeching that it would be just impossible to get a public game rolling with a respectable team, which would then lead to a decline in the coop experience.
Vote kick is all they needed to solve the leech problem.
Well I'm assuming that just like other Blizzard games, vote kick has a timer. And you get in trouble for using it to much. This solves both the leech problem of people being in a group, AND the want to leech in the first place, since they will know there's no way to get away with it.
- no leechers
- social groups will be made based on skill level of the players (ones which can output good dmg with high MF welcome here ;). I believe this could be a good change as it would help not to mix snobs/elitist/etc with casual player who wants to play for fun.
- good for economy, bots (ppl who just play for items to sell) will stick together, use the best gear (with high MF) and they will do fast not enjoyable runs through the content together without making our play boring and stressful cause they want to run faster and faster and kick everybody who is not a runner. They will do this hard boring work and find very low drop rate items for us which we can always buy from time to time from RAHM
- encourage creation of guilds where people share their items. MF being an average should not impact people playing with gm8s.
- ppl who kill fast with huge MF should join a guild or bots to benefit the most and not stress casual random players
- casuals and people who play with relaxation in mind don't have to worry for MF that much and be stressed that it is averaged between other 3 random players as they should not even stack it much. They will probably use RAHM if they need something badly (smth what let them finish inferno at least once, etc)
- as you can see from above single play will be only beneficial if you cannot join specialized good guild or bots groups which you should be able if you are so great fast killer and high MFinder
- as in averagely good group you should be able to kill faster in inferno you some lack of MF may be compensated enough to forget about stacking MF altogether (though it is doubtful)
Um no, they harmed co-op in pub games more with this than leaving it as it was and initiating vote kick.
you need specific deterrence to deal with leechers.
This change negatively effects EVERYONES MF, unless... haha you actually have a leecher in your game, than you benefit from their high MF.
You will always have useless kids who deal no damage, ALWAYS. *unless you run with 3 people you KNOW (private games, not pub)
So lets say you have a leecher in the group
Player 1 100mf
player 2 100mf
player 3 100mf
player 4 400mf.
= 175 avg, congrats you just gained 75% mf, he just lost a shit ton, he was going to be useless anyways, but his uselessness didnt benefit you, now it does. Bring on the leechers. I would love for me to have a leecher in the group now, god damn i encourage leeching now. All the baddies will know their roll, and it shall be leeching, give me that MF, give me that GF you leeching son of a bitch!
The player was always going to be bad, he couldnt do shit for himself, he couldnt do shit for the group. Guess what? He still cant do shit for himself, but now his "uselessness" benefits the group.
He needed YOU to kill shit, so he could get the drops, he was a nuisance to you pretty much. Now he gives you MF and GF and EXP... not such a nuisance anymore. Now if you're skilled enough, you encourage them to increase your adventure stats so you can farm like a boss. Your own personal MF bot, but its not a bot, because its a player, and he cant touch your drops, fucking profit.
Leeching needed to be socially deviant, and have the player community out them. You do this by the vote kick system, and keeping the old MF system.
Also adding some sort of punishment to being continually vote kicked out ( timer from joining pub games ) require majority to kick. 2/3 or 3/4
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
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A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Do you really need some massive incentive to play with other people? Are you guys really that anti-social?
If you seriously think that, then you must of been one of the people planning on just leeching on other people.
The only people this change hurts is leechers, and ya know what.. Fuckem!!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
What? This doesn't lessen the amount of drops for the group as a whole. It DOES lessen the amount of good drops for a single person in a pug, but as far as playing with a group, the amount of MF is still the same, it's just spread across. If you play with friends, then this won't matter at all.
And yes, Diablo is a solo game. Playing with others is a very fun aspect, but not required.
This will hopefully kill off the leecher mentality (proli wont stop it but it should make them want to stick to solo play)
Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
If I have the most MF AND Best or near best dps. Then I'm really getting screwed.
Well not entirely... parties still kill monsters faster I guess.
Yes if we assume you are the best player ever, and even with shit gear you can still do the most dmg, then are you getting screwed. Problem is we made 2 false assumptions to start with to get to that conclusion....
If everyone else in your group sucks, and you somehow know that, hen you are free to leave.
As I said before, this change hurts absolutely no one but the leechers.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
As I understand, each player gets and sees their own drops, without being able to see the drops of the other players in the group. What I don't know--and everyone else might not know this yet as well--is how the quantity of monster drops scales with the number of players in a game... I realize this is unclear so let me propose an example.
Say a solo player kills 500 monsters which inhabit an area and each monster has a 2% chance to drop some wearable loot. On average said player should find 10 items every time he clears said area (these numbers are all used for ease of mathematics as I have no idea what actual drop rates and monster populations will be). So: one player, 500 monsters, 2% drop rate => 10 items
Now imagine a group of 4 players kills the same 500 monsters, how many items does each player find? Are four times as many items drop so each player gets 10? Does each drop the same number of items so each player gets 2.5? Somewhere in between?
My understanding from D2 was that the number of players in the game improved the quality of the items which were dropped fairly considerably while not having such a strong effect on the number of items dropped (per monster)--Hell Baal dropped 4-6 items almost every time he died (maybe 1-2 fewer items soloing vs a full 8 player game), but in the game of 8 he tended to way better gear. Will the opposite be true in D3?
As far as I understand, the skeleton king is the "boss," if you will, of the beta and reliably drops decent loot. I don't know the exact details and hope someone can fill me in, but assume that a solo player killing him receives one rare, one magic item, and two normal items. My question to the community is: if a pack of 4 players kills him, how much decent loot does each player get? Does each player get a rare, a magic item and 2 normal items? Are the same 4 items split between the players so everyone gets one? Does he drop 6-8 items so everyone gets 1 or 2 items?
I feel that the answer is hugely significant in this discussion because if he drops the rare, magic, and 2 normal items for each player, then it is advantageous (from an efficiency standpoint) to MF in groups if he can reliably be killed faster by a team of 4 than one player soloing.
How dropped loot quality and quantity [as well as game difficulty] scales with player party size is highly significant to this discussion of how MF sharing or calculations will effect the viability of magic-finding in groups vs alone <-- My point
Can anyone share their observations from the beta or information known from blizzard representatives?
- Ernest Rutherford
Yep agreed; but so far in the beta, it has encouraged me not to run public games with my GF set. Since I can essentially clear monsters at the same rate as 4 people, even in my full GF (again, a limitation of the beta).
I agree with you about the changes, don't get me wrong (lol calm down on the hostility, were on the same side). But I still want to make the point that in D2, MF runs were mostly solo, and that will probably be the same in D3 regardless of this change. I mean, I'm glad it stops leechers for sure, but at the same time, it's kind of a bummer when I spent X weeks getting 180GF to have it split with random pubbies who could care less. Whether or not they help me kill faster will have to be seen though (in inferno).
D3 Channel: OnetwoD3
But if you and 3 mates all had MF at simular % then granted you might be grinding a helluva lot slower in pace but at least you would be able to keep ya MF high. Granted we dont know enough about Infeno so that may (and more than likely) not be possible. At the end of the day no matter how it pans out, this change is all for the good.
Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
Well put.
D3 Channel: OnetwoD3
Oh and I'm loving this change, and watching as some people complain about it, because we all know they were going to be leeching their hearts out with the old system. Tough luck boys.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Well I'm assuming that just like other Blizzard games, vote kick has a timer. And you get in trouble for using it to much. This solves both the leech problem of people being in a group, AND the want to leech in the first place, since they will know there's no way to get away with it.
- social groups will be made based on skill level of the players (ones which can output good dmg with high MF welcome here ;). I believe this could be a good change as it would help not to mix snobs/elitist/etc with casual player who wants to play for fun.
- good for economy, bots (ppl who just play for items to sell) will stick together, use the best gear (with high MF) and they will do fast not enjoyable runs through the content together without making our play boring and stressful cause they want to run faster and faster and kick everybody who is not a runner. They will do this hard boring work and find very low drop rate items for us which we can always buy from time to time from RAHM
- encourage creation of guilds where people share their items. MF being an average should not impact people playing with gm8s.
- ppl who kill fast with huge MF should join a guild or bots to benefit the most and not stress casual random players
- casuals and people who play with relaxation in mind don't have to worry for MF that much and be stressed that it is averaged between other 3 random players as they should not even stack it much. They will probably use RAHM if they need something badly (smth what let them finish inferno at least once, etc)
- as you can see from above single play will be only beneficial if you cannot join specialized good guild or bots groups which you should be able if you are so great fast killer and high MFinder
- as in averagely good group you should be able to kill faster in inferno you some lack of MF may be compensated enough to forget about stacking MF altogether (though it is doubtful)
Basically Blizzard maid a good choice here.
it's better if problem does not exist in a first place
you need specific deterrence to deal with leechers.
This change negatively effects EVERYONES MF, unless... haha you actually have a leecher in your game, than you benefit from their high MF.
You will always have useless kids who deal no damage, ALWAYS. *unless you run with 3 people you KNOW (private games, not pub)
So lets say you have a leecher in the group
Player 1 100mf
player 2 100mf
player 3 100mf
player 4 400mf.
= 175 avg, congrats you just gained 75% mf, he just lost a shit ton, he was going to be useless anyways, but his uselessness didnt benefit you, now it does. Bring on the leechers. I would love for me to have a leecher in the group now, god damn i encourage leeching now. All the baddies will know their roll, and it shall be leeching, give me that MF, give me that GF you leeching son of a bitch!
The player was always going to be bad, he couldnt do shit for himself, he couldnt do shit for the group. Guess what? He still cant do shit for himself, but now his "uselessness" benefits the group.
He needed YOU to kill shit, so he could get the drops, he was a nuisance to you pretty much. Now he gives you MF and GF and EXP... not such a nuisance anymore. Now if you're skilled enough, you encourage them to increase your adventure stats so you can farm like a boss. Your own personal MF bot, but its not a bot, because its a player, and he cant touch your drops, fucking profit.
Leeching needed to be socially deviant, and have the player community out them. You do this by the vote kick system, and keeping the old MF system.
Also adding some sort of punishment to being continually vote kicked out ( timer from joining pub games ) require majority to kick. 2/3 or 3/4
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."