I believe the new system reveal from Jay Wilson later this week will have something to do with the Checkpoints system. As of now there are numerous "exploits" regarding fast, repetitive runs of the same area using checkpoints & leaving the game, including getting level 1 characters up to bosses instantly just by joining a friend's game.
If you don't see a problem with this, think about why Blizzard shifted the "best loot" from Bosses to Rare/Champion mobs - it was an attempt to curb repetitive boss runs, and make the entire game viable for aquiring gear. With the current checkpoint system, that problem is even worse than Boss runs in D2, since there are some areas where Rares/Champions always (or almost always) spawn, i.e., the Cemetary of the Forsaken in beta.
Additionally, Bashiok said not long ago that this new system will be implemented in the next beta patch, so it must be a system that affects the entire game and is available at low levels.
As an aside - It's been 4 weeks since the last beta patch, so I would venture to guess that Patch 10 will be here by next week at the latest, if not by the end of this week with the system reveal. I also expect a full character wipe (including beta bux?) if it's really a big change.
I do not see a problem with the game mechanic you've listed. Since you need a character at each of the four bosses, for each of the four difficulties in order for a successful run through of normal-hell difficulty. This means you'd need 12 characters that are saved to specific locations and quests, meaning you can't really play them anymore. It is simply unreasonable and incredibly tedious to have 12 characters saved at each boss, for each difficulty, to actually perform run throughs. Unless you plan to power level in act 1, normal, all the way to 60.
Ok, well this only addresses the power levelling issue, in terms of simply finding a checkpoint and running the same definite rare/champion spawn boss for loot, well that I do agree that is a legitimate concern, and I'm curious to see how they can fix it without ultimately affecting some other intentional game mechanic.
I was watching a livestream yesterday and found it interesting that a level 1 was with the group at the skeleton king. I assumed that in order to join a group at a given point, you had to be at that point in the quest or further. You couldn't leap forward and do quests you hadn't done yet. It was a big oversight.
It would be a far bigger flaw to simply not let you join your friends game if they are ahead of you.
Note: If I'm not mistaken it works such that you don't actually get credit for completing the quests, unless you've finished all the other quests leading to it. So he's just basically wasting his time not getting much experience, and will eventually have to repeat all act 1 in order to get the quests completed.
Unless he's been run through every quest, in which case.. meh, congrats, you needed someone to beat all the quests for you, effectively wasting the higher level persons time, I don't really see this as a problem.
Nice read and actually possible tbh , tho i prefer them talking about the completed runesystem ( as u said something to access at low level ) And perhaps putting some in the beta for tests.
They did say that runes won't be in the first Act of the game, but the thing is, atm, with the short beta and people getting board with it and D3 in general, adding a couple of runes into the beta will definitely spark some long awaited excitement!! I think this can only do good...unless the rune effects suck.
loot running doesn't seem like it's an issue, people will do it anyway. Seems like it's more of a limited beta caused problem anyway, since once you get the full game you'll want to get out of the lvl1 noob zones quickly, and just go get the better stuff. Most of the stuff worth farming will be in inferno, which you can't really farm anyway.
but the lvl 1 still get the loot from sk, right ? i think thats what op is trying to say mostly ...
its like you playing game and writing to your friend on any messenger that you get to boss xxx and asking him to join just for the double loot (even that he is lvl 1)...
Yes, but you only get the loot bonus on your first kill, so really the level 1 being there is just slowing down the other 3 people, and everyone would be better off if that guy was also level 13. He isn't really getting extra loot, just being a useless tag along to an otherwise good ol' fashion boss run.
but the lvl 1 still get the loot from sk, right ? i think thats what op is trying to say mostly ...
its like you playing game and writing to your friend on any messenger that you get to boss xxx and asking him to join just for the double loot (even that he is lvl 1)...
I don't think it's going to be a big deal, though. Especially since the ultimate goal is Inferno, where you will be in difficult land the entire time.
I defiantly see the concern; There are certain points in the game where it's almost guaranteed that at least one if not a couple rare champions will spawn (the mobs that drop the best loot), and with this method you have a toon (x) on a different account do the quests up to that point. Then toon X creates a new game, Toon y(the real farmer) joins and has instant access to that area. Toon X can leave if h'es not geared, and Y does some really quick farming, then leaves himself. repeat, and suddenly you have the fastest way to farm champions.
One possible block to this would be the amount of games that you can create in say 1 or 5 minutes. If you can only create a game like one a minute, then this whole thing isn't a huge deal. But if there isn't a restriction I can see this being heavily used. (which I still can't decide if that's actually going to be a problem, I mean there's always going to be one 'fastest' way to farm.)
Take for instance the graveyard, there's almost always a champion 10 feet from the waypoint. X creates, Y joins, waypoints, kills both leave. Maybe ~15 seconds.
Either way WTB release! =P *off to play beta....again...*
Your first kill on SK gives you 100% chance for a rare.
What they do is create a new character, join the SK room, grab the rare and give it to the friend, get on their lv 13, take the loot > friends makes a lv 1 > 100% succes on another rare etc.
rare farming.
Right, but again you can only do this for the first act on normal difficulty. At least its the only way you can reasonably do this, otherwise you will have to rush said character to a higher act/difficulty, which would require you completing all the quests. You've found a flaw that allows individuals to repeatedly farm the final boss of act 1 on normal, I doubt anyone is going to waste their time farming lvl 15 rares.
Skeleton King is not the boss of act 1. And this is a good thread.
If I'm not mistaken, (haven't played much public) but when creating or joining a public game u have to be in the same tier of quests the "host" of the public game is on. So all blizz has to do is apply this to the join friend scenario. All done.
Skeleton King is not the boss of act 1. And this is a good thread.
If I'm not mistaken, (haven't played much public) but when creating or joining a public game u have to be in the same tier of quests the "host" of the public game is on. So all blizz has to do is apply this to the join friend scenario. All done.
I know it isn't the boss of act 1, but in theory this 'flaw' could be used to kill the last boss of act 1, whoever/whatever that is, to farm items. Also I think they'll still allow friends to join games even if they aren't on the same tier. I don't really see a major problem with the way it is, farming act 1 boss isn't an exciting reward.
I believe the new system reveal from Jay Wilson later this week will have something to do with the Checkpoints system. As of now there are numerous "exploits" regarding fast, repetitive runs of the same area using checkpoints & leaving the game, including getting level 1 characters up to bosses instantly just by joining a friend's game.
If you don't see a problem with this, think about why Blizzard shifted the "best loot" from Bosses to Rare/Champion mobs - it was an attempt to curb repetitive boss runs, and make the entire game viable for aquiring gear. With the current checkpoint system, that problem is even worse than Boss runs in D2, since there are some areas where Rares/Champions always (or almost always) spawn, i.e., the Cemetary of the Forsaken in beta.
Additionally, Bashiok said not long ago that this new system will be implemented in the next beta patch, so it must be a system that affects the entire game and is available at low levels.
As an aside - It's been 4 weeks since the last beta patch, so I would venture to guess that Patch 10 will be here by next week at the latest, if not by the end of this week with the system reveal. I also expect a full character wipe (including beta bux?) if it's really a big change.
For one you cant farm an area, drop rates go down if you do the same area repetitivly. Secondly, Did you play D2? do you remember how lvl 89 players would rush a group of 7 noobs? Blizzard already stated that this is a fate that they would have to accept, no matter what, players will always find a way to speed rush other players.
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For one you cant farm an area, drop rates go down if you do the same area repetitivly.
You can for gold, at the very least. This site (or maybe incgamers) has a video of someone with 234% gold find, who would go from a stairs down, to just before a checkpoint (like 5 minutes total) and get about 2000 gold. Then he'd port back to his original checkpoint and do it again. Add MF to the GF gear, and that's a pretty decent way to get lots of stuff - and this is only level 13.
For one you cant farm an area, drop rates go down if you do the same area repetitivly.
I've never heard something like this. Do you have any basis for this claim?
Secondly, Did you play D2? do you remember how lvl 89 players would rush a group of 7 noobs? Blizzard already stated that this is a fate that they would have to accept, no matter what, players will always find a way to speed rush other players.
I'm not concerned with powerleveling, and I don't know how so many people interpreted my post to be that, looking at the replies a lot of people are talking about powerleveling. That's not really an issue that needs attention.
My concern lies in short, repetitive loot runs. Logging out and in every minute to farm the exact same area. If this is the most efficient way to farm items, what an epicly boring end game D3 will have.
@Ardikus
One of the blues said specifically that repeatedly trying to farm the same area will result in lower drop rates of everything (im assuming gold too). Im lazy so im not going to find it for you, youll just have to take my word on this. They may have been referring to Inferno difficulty specifically or maybe all difficulties, their point was that they want you to just run through the whole game, not just farm a certain part. And they likely will add more end-game content after release which should be in 'early' 2013.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
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If you don't see a problem with this, think about why Blizzard shifted the "best loot" from Bosses to Rare/Champion mobs - it was an attempt to curb repetitive boss runs, and make the entire game viable for aquiring gear. With the current checkpoint system, that problem is even worse than Boss runs in D2, since there are some areas where Rares/Champions always (or almost always) spawn, i.e., the Cemetary of the Forsaken in beta.
Additionally, Bashiok said not long ago that this new system will be implemented in the next beta patch, so it must be a system that affects the entire game and is available at low levels.
As an aside - It's been 4 weeks since the last beta patch, so I would venture to guess that Patch 10 will be here by next week at the latest, if not by the end of this week with the system reveal. I also expect a full character wipe (including beta bux?) if it's really a big change.
Read the last paragraph of original post.
Changed the title to avoid confusion
Ok, well this only addresses the power levelling issue, in terms of simply finding a checkpoint and running the same definite rare/champion spawn boss for loot, well that I do agree that is a legitimate concern, and I'm curious to see how they can fix it without ultimately affecting some other intentional game mechanic.
It would be a far bigger flaw to simply not let you join your friends game if they are ahead of you.
Note: If I'm not mistaken it works such that you don't actually get credit for completing the quests, unless you've finished all the other quests leading to it. So he's just basically wasting his time not getting much experience, and will eventually have to repeat all act 1 in order to get the quests completed.
Unless he's been run through every quest, in which case.. meh, congrats, you needed someone to beat all the quests for you, effectively wasting the higher level persons time, I don't really see this as a problem.
They did say that runes won't be in the first Act of the game, but the thing is, atm, with the short beta and people getting board with it and D3 in general, adding a couple of runes into the beta will definitely spark some long awaited excitement!! I think this can only do good...unless the rune effects suck.
Yes, but you only get the loot bonus on your first kill, so really the level 1 being there is just slowing down the other 3 people, and everyone would be better off if that guy was also level 13. He isn't really getting extra loot, just being a useless tag along to an otherwise good ol' fashion boss run.
I don't think it's going to be a big deal, though. Especially since the ultimate goal is Inferno, where you will be in difficult land the entire time.
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One possible block to this would be the amount of games that you can create in say 1 or 5 minutes. If you can only create a game like one a minute, then this whole thing isn't a huge deal. But if there isn't a restriction I can see this being heavily used. (which I still can't decide if that's actually going to be a problem, I mean there's always going to be one 'fastest' way to farm.)
Take for instance the graveyard, there's almost always a champion 10 feet from the waypoint. X creates, Y joins, waypoints, kills both leave. Maybe ~15 seconds.
Either way WTB release! =P *off to play beta....again...*
Oh you poor soul, being in beta must really suck!
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Right, but again you can only do this for the first act on normal difficulty. At least its the only way you can reasonably do this, otherwise you will have to rush said character to a higher act/difficulty, which would require you completing all the quests. You've found a flaw that allows individuals to repeatedly farm the final boss of act 1 on normal, I doubt anyone is going to waste their time farming lvl 15 rares.
If I'm not mistaken, (haven't played much public) but when creating or joining a public game u have to be in the same tier of quests the "host" of the public game is on. So all blizz has to do is apply this to the join friend scenario. All done.
I know it isn't the boss of act 1, but in theory this 'flaw' could be used to kill the last boss of act 1, whoever/whatever that is, to farm items. Also I think they'll still allow friends to join games even if they aren't on the same tier. I don't really see a major problem with the way it is, farming act 1 boss isn't an exciting reward.
For one you cant farm an area, drop rates go down if you do the same area repetitivly. Secondly, Did you play D2? do you remember how lvl 89 players would rush a group of 7 noobs? Blizzard already stated that this is a fate that they would have to accept, no matter what, players will always find a way to speed rush other players.
I've never heard something like this. Do you have any basis for this claim?
I'm not concerned with powerleveling, and I don't know how so many people interpreted my post to be that, looking at the replies a lot of people are talking about powerleveling. That's not really an issue that needs attention.
My concern lies in short, repetitive loot runs. Logging out and in every minute to farm the exact same area. If this is the most efficient way to farm items, what an epicly boring end game D3 will have.
One of the blues said specifically that repeatedly trying to farm the same area will result in lower drop rates of everything (im assuming gold too). Im lazy so im not going to find it for you, youll just have to take my word on this. They may have been referring to Inferno difficulty specifically or maybe all difficulties, their point was that they want you to just run through the whole game, not just farm a certain part. And they likely will add more end-game content after release which should be in 'early' 2013.