Some do. But the fact is, if the story was shit, the game would not be nearly as successful. It's as simple as that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Storyline was something really important in D1 and very important for it's sucess. Back in D1 everyone knew all NPCs, the lore behind each boss and quest, etc...
But it totally changed in D2. Only a very small fraction of players really cares about storyline. And D2 story are very weak anyway. How can a story be maded with no characters ? D2 plot is extremely weak.
Storyline was something really important in D1 and very important for it's sucess. Back in D1 everyone knew all NPCs, the lore behind each boss and quest, etc...
But it totally changed in D2. Only a very small fraction of players really cares about storyline. And D2 story are very weak anyway. How can a story be maded with no characters ? D2 plot is extremely weak.
There are characters. And I don't think the story is weak at all. The story for your hero was a bit linear, but the overall story was awesome. U krazy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
This is what I think of when I hear "diversity" nowadays:
Such an abused term, srsly. Political correctness sucks in most cases.
But I agree completely with you, Umpa. I thought the SAME exact thing when I entered the Lost City. It's just a vague smattering of minuscule ruins. It definitely would have been cooler if it actually looked something like a city, or a city like Lut Gholein, with shattered and caved-in domes and crumpled spires.
Haha niiceee video! Ya, your description would have made The Lost City way better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
There are characters. And I don't think the story is weak at all. The story for your hero was a bit linear, but the overall story was awesome. U krazy.
Whats awesome about a random hero chasing a demon ? It's a mater of taste anyway.
Imo if the plot was so important it wouldn't be completly ignorable (you can just keep killing stuff without read one line in the game and still beat it). Something essential shouldn't be optional. And story in diablo are optional cause you can play the game without it.
IF you ever listened to a developer panel, the game is made to be very easy. It's one of the functions of the game. Diablo does not work if it is not easy.
Maybe if you knew the story I would actually feel compelled to respond about the plot...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
IF you ever listened to a developer panel, the game is made to be very easy. It's one of the functions of the game. Diablo does not work if it is not easy.
Maybe if you knew the story I would actually feel compelled to respond about the plot...
Sorry but i don't understand your point. I've see all development panel and i never saw anything about the " the game is made to bevery easy". And what difficulty has to do with story anyway ?
They said thenself that the story will be cool but it's there to people who like this stuff. Rushers may simple skip it as they like. So it's something secondary. And imo something secondary cannot be the main focus of the game.
"Gameplay first". It's writen in the orc brass statue on blizzard central's yard.
And don't assume i'm ignorant about the game lore just because i accept the fact that most D2 players don't even know who is that cloaked guy in the begning of act 3.
Firstly, the point was to show that Diablo, is a game that is supposed to be easy. It's not a game like Oblivion or WOW where the quest details are going to be super in depth and make you read a whole book. The game is made for many people, those who enjoy story, those who enjoy hack n slash, and both. Just because the game is good enough without a story does not mean it has a bad story. Although I don't think the game would be good enough without the story...
Second, I made no assumptions. You said "Whats awesome about a random hero chasing a demon". This in my mind equates to a serious lack of knowledge about the story of Diablo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Firstly, the point was to show that Diablo, is a game that is supposed to be easy. It's not a game like Oblivion or WOW where the quest details are going to be super in depth and make you read a whole book. The game is made for many people, those who enjoy story, those who enjoy hack n slash, and both. Just because the game is good enough without a story does not mean it has a bad story. Although I don't think the game would be good enough without the story...
Second, I made no assumptions. You said "Whats awesome about a random hero chasing a demon". This in my mind equates to a serious lack of knowledge about the story of Diablo.
It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be challenge. And story focus has nothing to do with this kind of thing. For exemple, MGS has no such quests and stuff but it's still a game totally based at it's plot.
And i never said Diablo has bad story, Diablo 2 has. I like most books and love D1's, but D2 totally lacks a good plot unlike the other lore canons.
Again, i'm not saying the overall story of Diablo is a hero chasing a demon. But Diablo 2 plot is nothing more then that. Theres no plot twists, most characters takes no part in the the story and it's basically the same thing over and over again. The game has around 8 hours leght and only like 20 mins are dedicated to lore (few minutes cinematics pluss few seconds dialogs) while the rest are dedicated to hack and slash. Again, take a game like MGS or rpgs. Around 20% of it's leght is spended with scenes, dialogs and other stuff that makes the lore flow.
C'mon on, a chapter of any of those novels develop more the plot then the entire games. Games that are supposed to be selled because of it's story are "playable books" or "playable movies". And diablo 1 and 2 are far from that.
I feel that Umpa is right here. The story is a very in-depth one, where anyone who wants access to it, can in fact read it... but on the same token, those who just want to hack 'n slash their way through the game are more than welcome to.
But, for a lot of people, the game draws us into the story. The CGI intro to the acts wasn't just put there for aesthetic reasons. They want you to understand the story, if you, as a gamer, want to acknowledge it.
At this point in time, however, the game has been out for so long that the "rushers" have seen it all before, they know the storyline, they know why Baal was marching up to the Worldstone (well, as far as the in-game fact goes), and so, there is no reason to see it over and over again. It's the same reason why we read a book only several times... after we understand the book in its entirety, there's no longer a need to read it again (unless its been a while, and you want a refresh). I stopped playing Diablo II around the 1.10 patch.... but when I picked it up about a year ago, I watched the cinematics again, talked to everyone, understood who said what and why. Why? Because I love the lore behind Sanctuary. I want to understand the time and effort put into the game by the developers to immerse me into the game.
Does that mean you have to? Not at all. But I do feel that the story drives the game, here. If you had just started playing, and didn't care about the story, I guarantee that you'd find yourself asking "Why am I in a desert now? Who was that chick with six arms and nipple chains, and who is that cloaked guy?"
My point is this, I feel that the story drives the game in one way or another, at one point in time or another, and to some degree or another. It differs from person to person, but the story will still be there, and will still impact you as the gamer in some way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be challenge. And story focus has nothing to do with this kind of thing.
He doesn't mean "easy" in terms of difficulty level. He meant "easy" in terms of easily acceptable by a broad scope of the playerbase.
For exemple, MGS has no such quests and stuff but it's still a game totally based at it's plot.
That is irrelevant. Metal Gear Solid is a console based, one player game. Most good games that are single player will require some sort of content to keep a player interested.
And i never said Diablo has bad story, Diablo 2 has. I like most books and love D1's, but D2 totally lacks a good plot unlike the other lore canons.
I feel that you are wrong here. I did enjoy Diablo II's storyline. After having played through // read it a lot, I really did enjoy it... but it is personal taste.
C'mon on, a chapter of any of those novels develop more the plot then the entire games. Games that are supposed to be selled because of it's story are "playable books" or "playable movies". And diablo 1 and 2 are far from that.
Your argument is moderately flawed. You're taking the point of all games in general. Have you read the canon lore behind World of Warcraft? What about that of Starcraft? Good reads, I assure you (both in game and out). You have to really break it down into genres before you can argue one point or another. In the terms of an "MMO" game, or a game played online with multiple people simultaneously, it is difficult to truly make the game a "playable book" as well as multiplayer. Some people do not care about the story, and some do. Like my previous post, though, I feel that the story does drive the game in some way or fashion to everyon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
hey guys, they exist a rule of games who said that a game must be easy to finish, BUT it's need challenges and different difficulties after having pass trough the game once. (for hardcore gamer, so you have a part "tutoriel"/ easy for younger and for casual gamer and hard time for hardcore gamer) So everyone is happy.
It's the reason why the game will have 3 difficulties
Ital, I'm just gonna say this. You misinterpreted what I meant by "easy" . and that is totally my fault. I should not have assumed you would know what I was talking about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Your argument is moderately flawed. You're taking the point of all games in general. Have you read the canon lore behind World of Warcraft? What about that of Starcraft? Good reads, I assure you (both in game and out). You have to really break it down into genres before you can argue one point or another. In the terms of an "MMO" game, or a game played online with multiple people simultaneously, it is difficult to truly make the game a "playable book" as well as multiplayer. Some people do not care about the story, and some do. Like my previous post, though, I feel that the story does drive the game in some way or fashion to everyon.
I"m not talking about the lore canon quality. I've said several times Diablo lore canon are good and i agree warcraft and sc are good to, specially starcraft.
This is has nothing to do if the story are good or not. The main reason for people play blizz games are not the story, i'm sure of it. Some people play for it, but they are minority. Just take any diablo, wow and sc community and see the amount of people discussing lore. Now compere to the mount of people discussing balance, strategy and other aspects.
People play those games because they've really good gameplay, specially the multiplayer. Lore takes a part of it, i'm not denying, but it's far from their focus compered to other games.
I"m not talking about the lore canon quality. I've said several times Diablo lore canon are good and i agree warcraft and sc are good to, specially starcraft.
This is has nothing to do if the story are good or not. The main reason for people play blizz games are not the story, i'm sure of it. Some people play for it, but they are minority. Just take any diablo, wow and sc community and see the amount of people discussing lore. Now compere to the mount of people discussing balance, strategy and other aspects.
People play those games because they've really good gameplay, specially the multiplayer. Lore takes a part of it, i'm not denying, but it's far from their focus compered to other games.
I wouldn't say that with Diablo or pre-WoW warcraft. Lore was integral in both. Gameplay is just as important as lore with Diablo, but in the end they're both equally important, especially when the game first comes out.
Personal preferences-
Act 1= best act
Act 3= worst act
Worst places in D2(for me)-
Maggot's lair
Arcane sanctuary(however much Necro says he finds it fascinating{in-game speech})
Nithalak's shithole (his CE is just plain murderous)
Now on topic- Yes diversity will be a great addition. I really greatly liked act 1 but for act 2 and 3, I'll have to agree with what you said on the monotony stuff, reptar. Losing my way in the jungle with midgets spitting/blowing stuff at me annoyed me to no end.
Act 4 was too short to really complain about 'varying' environment.
Act 5 was pretty good in terms of variety. I didn't like it though.
Good point. I completely forgot about that tidbit of information. That was some of the most exciting news to me that we will finally have more than one camp .
@jaKe, the age of the game is no excuse. There are plenty of older games that are amazing.
D2 was amazing, the age of the game do have a big effect of the playability of it now and back then since nowadays you see games like the later CoD Series and other SICK graphic engines pumping out this hardcore bloodrushing action. It's because of this you expect games to evolve so what you call "droll" and "lack of diversity" was your addiction and obsession for the time that it was hot(otherwise, you would be on the Diablo fan forums). I have to say even now I think the game has a great perspective, story and fast paced hack and slash feeling, and D3 will be, i know, better than it's well thought of and well put together prodecessor, D2.
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
But it totally changed in D2. Only a very small fraction of players really cares about storyline. And D2 story are very weak anyway. How can a story be maded with no characters ? D2 plot is extremely weak.
There are characters. And I don't think the story is weak at all. The story for your hero was a bit linear, but the overall story was awesome. U krazy.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Such an abused term, srsly. Political correctness sucks in most cases.
But I agree completely with you, Umpa. I thought the SAME exact thing when I entered the Lost City. It's just a vague smattering of minuscule ruins. It definitely would have been cooler if it actually looked something like a city, or a city like Lut Gholein, with shattered and caved-in domes and crumpled spires.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Whats awesome about a random hero chasing a demon ? It's a mater of taste anyway.
Imo if the plot was so important it wouldn't be completly ignorable (you can just keep killing stuff without read one line in the game and still beat it). Something essential shouldn't be optional. And story in diablo are optional cause you can play the game without it.
Maybe if you knew the story I would actually feel compelled to respond about the plot...
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Sorry but i don't understand your point. I've see all development panel and i never saw anything about the " the game is made to bevery easy". And what difficulty has to do with story anyway ?
They said thenself that the story will be cool but it's there to people who like this stuff. Rushers may simple skip it as they like. So it's something secondary. And imo something secondary cannot be the main focus of the game.
"Gameplay first". It's writen in the orc brass statue on blizzard central's yard.
And don't assume i'm ignorant about the game lore just because i accept the fact that most D2 players don't even know who is that cloaked guy in the begning of act 3.
Second, I made no assumptions. You said "Whats awesome about a random hero chasing a demon". This in my mind equates to a serious lack of knowledge about the story of Diablo.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
It's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be challenge. And story focus has nothing to do with this kind of thing. For exemple, MGS has no such quests and stuff but it's still a game totally based at it's plot.
And i never said Diablo has bad story, Diablo 2 has. I like most books and love D1's, but D2 totally lacks a good plot unlike the other lore canons.
Again, i'm not saying the overall story of Diablo is a hero chasing a demon. But Diablo 2 plot is nothing more then that. Theres no plot twists, most characters takes no part in the the story and it's basically the same thing over and over again. The game has around 8 hours leght and only like 20 mins are dedicated to lore (few minutes cinematics pluss few seconds dialogs) while the rest are dedicated to hack and slash. Again, take a game like MGS or rpgs. Around 20% of it's leght is spended with scenes, dialogs and other stuff that makes the lore flow.
C'mon on, a chapter of any of those novels develop more the plot then the entire games. Games that are supposed to be selled because of it's story are "playable books" or "playable movies". And diablo 1 and 2 are far from that.
But, for a lot of people, the game draws us into the story. The CGI intro to the acts wasn't just put there for aesthetic reasons. They want you to understand the story, if you, as a gamer, want to acknowledge it.
At this point in time, however, the game has been out for so long that the "rushers" have seen it all before, they know the storyline, they know why Baal was marching up to the Worldstone (well, as far as the in-game fact goes), and so, there is no reason to see it over and over again. It's the same reason why we read a book only several times... after we understand the book in its entirety, there's no longer a need to read it again (unless its been a while, and you want a refresh). I stopped playing Diablo II around the 1.10 patch.... but when I picked it up about a year ago, I watched the cinematics again, talked to everyone, understood who said what and why. Why? Because I love the lore behind Sanctuary. I want to understand the time and effort put into the game by the developers to immerse me into the game.
Does that mean you have to? Not at all. But I do feel that the story drives the game, here. If you had just started playing, and didn't care about the story, I guarantee that you'd find yourself asking "Why am I in a desert now? Who was that chick with six arms and nipple chains, and who is that cloaked guy?"
My point is this, I feel that the story drives the game in one way or another, at one point in time or another, and to some degree or another. It differs from person to person, but the story will still be there, and will still impact you as the gamer in some way.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
He doesn't mean "easy" in terms of difficulty level. He meant "easy" in terms of easily acceptable by a broad scope of the playerbase.
That is irrelevant. Metal Gear Solid is a console based, one player game. Most good games that are single player will require some sort of content to keep a player interested.
I feel that you are wrong here. I did enjoy Diablo II's storyline. After having played through // read it a lot, I really did enjoy it... but it is personal taste.
Your argument is moderately flawed. You're taking the point of all games in general. Have you read the canon lore behind World of Warcraft? What about that of Starcraft? Good reads, I assure you (both in game and out). You have to really break it down into genres before you can argue one point or another. In the terms of an "MMO" game, or a game played online with multiple people simultaneously, it is difficult to truly make the game a "playable book" as well as multiplayer. Some people do not care about the story, and some do. Like my previous post, though, I feel that the story does drive the game in some way or fashion to everyon.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
It's the reason why the game will have 3 difficulties
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I"m not talking about the lore canon quality. I've said several times Diablo lore canon are good and i agree warcraft and sc are good to, specially starcraft.
This is has nothing to do if the story are good or not. The main reason for people play blizz games are not the story, i'm sure of it. Some people play for it, but they are minority. Just take any diablo, wow and sc community and see the amount of people discussing lore. Now compere to the mount of people discussing balance, strategy and other aspects.
People play those games because they've really good gameplay, specially the multiplayer. Lore takes a part of it, i'm not denying, but it's far from their focus compered to other games.
I wouldn't say that with Diablo or pre-WoW warcraft. Lore was integral in both. Gameplay is just as important as lore with Diablo, but in the end they're both equally important, especially when the game first comes out.
Act 1= best act
Act 3= worst act
Worst places in D2(for me)-
Maggot's lair
Arcane sanctuary(however much Necro says he finds it fascinating{in-game speech})
Nithalak's shithole (his CE is just plain murderous)
Now on topic- Yes diversity will be a great addition. I really greatly liked act 1 but for act 2 and 3, I'll have to agree with what you said on the monotony stuff, reptar. Losing my way in the jungle with midgets spitting/blowing stuff at me annoyed me to no end.
Act 4 was too short to really complain about 'varying' environment.
Act 5 was pretty good in terms of variety. I didn't like it though.
D2 was amazing, the age of the game do have a big effect of the playability of it now and back then since nowadays you see games like the later CoD Series and other SICK graphic engines pumping out this hardcore bloodrushing action. It's because of this you expect games to evolve so what you call "droll" and "lack of diversity" was your addiction and obsession for the time that it was hot(otherwise, you would be on the Diablo fan forums). I have to say even now I think the game has a great perspective, story and fast paced hack and slash feeling, and D3 will be, i know, better than it's well thought of and well put together prodecessor, D2.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged