I've seen my fair share of topics complaining about the recent changes to Demon Hunters, and how we're nerfed, our class is broken, and how we're useless now, and whatnot. To respond to this, I feel some general knowledge may be needed.
First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm just getting started. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical."
I've seen my fair share of topics complaining about the recent changes to Demon Hunters, and how we're nerfed, our class is broken, and how we're useless now, and whatnot. To respond to this, I feel some general knowledge may be needed.
First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
I only read the first paragraph so let me apologize. I don't care about game-breaking. This is not an MMO. Maybe it would be broken for PVP (when that ever gets implemented). But don't tell me its broken when 4PC Natalya bonus set is allowed to be in place. Blizz is definitely backpeddling since they lost a ton of people playing. I am hoping they make us even more OP. As of this moment, we have absolutely nothing to offer in co-op.
I only read the first paragraph so let me apologize. I don't care about game-breaking. This is not an MMO. Maybe it would be broken for PVP (when that ever gets implemented). But don't tell me its broken when 4PC Natalya bonus set is allowed to be in place. Blizz is definitely backpeddling since they lost a ton of people playing. I am hoping they make us even more OP. As of this moment, we have absolutely nothing to offer in co-op.
Best dps in the game is nothing to offer? My friend plays a monk and he loves grouping with me. Since I can focus on damage while he has to build tanky, I literally do 9x his dps. We're beyond OP it isn't even funny. I sure as hell ain't complaining.
My DH hasn't hit 60 yet, so I've never used Nether Tentacles. I find the frost elemental arrow that splits into 3 very useful at slowing down/dealing dmg to mobs in Hell just fine.
I only read the first paragraph so let me apologize.
If you have no idea what you're even posting about, then don't post? Herp derp logic derp herp?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm just getting started. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical."
I've seen my fair share of topics complaining about the recent changes to Demon Hunters, and how we're nerfed, our class is broken, and how we're useless now, and whatnot. To respond to this, I feel some general knowledge may be needed.
First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
Nether tentacle was a bit OP, granted, but it is still a 100% necessary skill. Sure, could use multishot at its near useless 20 hatred a shot.... noty. Could use another elemental arrow... but... noty. Nether tentacle still pierces all targets, something that is essential against invulnerable mobs. It also has the life steal on it, which makes it nearly a must have against reflect damage mobs unless you have massively stacked other sources of healing via attacking.
As to people bitching about DH being nerfed into the ground, the combination of the IAS nerf and the nether tentacle nerf hurt a lot of DH's bad. I myself lost nearly 40k DPS from the IAS nerf and then losing the extra hits from nether tentacle was like... OMG i suck. But it didn't take long to regear myself.
Plus people need to realize we still get the best IAS in game with the proper gear. A 20% deadeye quiver with bonus damage to hungering arrow is insane. I actually picked one up off the AH for 1 mil, someone obviously didn't know what they had. 20% IAS, 8% dmg to hungering arrow, 165 agi, 70 vit, 1.08 hatred regen. Oh, and a socket. Yeah... win.
But he did gave you his thoughts, and my are similar. First you 'balance' skill, then you add and leave way, way more gamebreaking set (triple of normal regen of hardest resource to gain in game). You either balance all things around, or let people be OP as they want. Unless you want to discuss how near permanent Gloom DHs are fine, all talk about balance in game is null.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane with next to no life regain due to Inferno scaling. Multishot is nice for trash, but it's close range (not being able to even hit whole length of screen) makes it questionable to use against jailer/mortar/waller/teleport/vortex, not to mention it may be next thing on chopping block, the 50% hatred cost reduction rune is pretty much mandatory if you ever want to use it.
Impale is single target, which make runing anything other than Overpenetration iffy. Single target in this game works only if you face act bosses and perhaps if you finished all minions somehow from champ pack leaving golden mob. Unless you have 100k dps+ unbuffed, you will kite mobs for hours trying to get enough Hatred to kill whole elite packs with it.
Comparing other classes is pointless, I don't care for them. I rerolled from WD when I found I am unable to play in a way that suits me (pet or dot spread build, while not dying whole time to unkiteble enemies due to limited kiting arsenal). If other classes are struggling, why nerf DH and not buff those classes instead? It only leads to the point where every single class is struggling, and then you have blanket nerf on Inferno itself.
We're far from broken, in fact, we may have the best working resource system in game, both hatred AND discipline, THE FUN HAS BEEN DOUBLED. WD struggle on mana (static mana regen on growing mana cost of spells, k...), Barbs are not spending fury, Monk have barely any worthwhile spenders beside Mantra Spam, and Wiz... I guess they work too. But that doesn't offset fact that Nether Tentacle nerf hurt, together with not getting any changes to underused skills (non-bat familiar, sentry, strafe).
The nerfs to nether and IAS was absolutely needed because any DH could take advantage of them and become godly OP. People were breaking 240k dps without sharpshooter before the nerf, and if you didn't think that was too much then I don't know what to tell you. Even Demon Hunters who were moderately geared could reach insane numbers very very quickly. Even now after the nerf, the average DH is still running around with 40-50k dps, well above the same average for equally geared wizards/witch doctors, and about twice as much as equally geared barbs and monks.
While any DH can take advantage of nether and IAS, the same can't be said about the natalyas set. I'll be the first to admit that the 4 piece bonus is totally out of line. But the difference between this and the IAS/nether nerf is that only a small fraction of the DH population actually has access to the set without totally gimping their dps. Every DH could spam nether to victory. How many DHs have a decent set of 4 piece natalyas? Basically, Blizzard had to balance their options and determine if a small fraction of the population being OP was worth nerfing gear that people had spent gold/rmah money on. Ultimately, they decided that they could deal with a little OP. Once the dust from the nerfs settled, we STILL remain the most OP class in the game. Anyone who complains about us being nerfed "to the ground" doesn't have a clue of what the other classes have to deal with.
nether tentacle was a bugfix you know not a nerf =)
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
How exactly ias nerf hurts DH more than other classes? It's flat dps gain for every single class. It's side effects that made it 'over the line' for Blizzard, like LoH, Spirit generation/knockbacking finishers or %proc items/spells. None of this applies to DH specifically since it was percentage that heavily depended on your base damage in first place.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane <stopped reading right there>
You're wrong. It deals amazing damage, 155% weapon damage. It hits everything in a narrow lane, which means its doing 155% weapon damage times however many mobs you get in the lane. If you were intelligent enough to know how to actually use the ability hitting EVERY mob you have aggro on is a non issue. If you are too stupid to use the skill properly, that is no ones fault but your own, but since you are complaining about the "very narrow lane" you obviously don't know what you're doing. As such anything further in your post is probably more utter garbage and wasn't worth reading.
Nether tentacle was nerfed, balanced, whatever. Fine, it was OP as hell. I was killing inferno butcher in less then 15 seconds they way it was. Now I actually have to do more than stand and spam one ability at him till my hatred is gone. I find Butcher farming to be a lot more interesting now. It was a good and needed change. People complaining about it are just a bunch of bads who apparently can't play something thats not ridiculously OP.
How exactly ias nerf hurts DH more than other classes? It's flat dps gain for every single class. It's side effects that made it 'over the line' for Blizzard, like LoH, Spirit generation/knockbacking finishers or %proc items/spells. None of this applies to DH specifically since it was percentage that heavily depended on your base damage in first place.
Actually, it didn't hurt us more than other classes. It actually hurt us a lot less than it did other classes. The IAS nerf did not apply to quivers, so we still have prenerf IAS values on our quivers. Anyone saying it hurt us more than anyone else is simply showing their bias towards DH's and not thinking about what they are saying.
How exactly ias nerf hurts DH more than other classes? It's flat dps gain for every single class. It's side effects that made it 'over the line' for Blizzard, like LoH, Spirit generation/knockbacking finishers or %proc items/spells. None of this applies to DH specifically since it was percentage that heavily depended on your base damage in first place.
First, re-read what i said, i never stated that it hurts the DH more than the other classes. However, with that said, it DOES hurt us more than anyone else. Why you ask? Because all IAS does is act as a MULTIPLIER on your base dps. Since we have the highest base dps, a reduction in IAS results in a higher loss in net dps. Case in point, Athene went from 210k dps without sharpshooter to 140k dps without sharpshooter after the nerf. Think about that -- he lost 70k dps . Have you even met anyone that's not a demon hunter that even HAS 70k dps? This is also true if crit damage or crit % is nerfed; since we have the most dps out of anyone, we have the most dps to lose.
Whoa, we have a badass over here. Keep badmouthing me over internet tough boy and see how much I care. 155%wd over line of a melassa moving projectile with small hitbox is bad, Overpenetration with Impale does 250% and it's instant. The only thing that is better was lower hatred cost to spam it, but you would need 3 targets hit constantly to barely deal more damage than Evasive Fire which is generator. I'd rather use Scatter explosive traps and have actually something damaging than waste time spamming Nether Tickles, or Lightning Ball for something that will clear rooms in flash and deal same damage most of time (2 bolts per shot),
Edit for IaS:
It is percentage, that's why I don't see point bringing it to DH specifically. If we did 30% more dps than other classes before attack speed, we will continue to do 30% more damage past nerf. Flat numbers on character sheet means nothing, it's all relative.
Our higher damage also is possible only because of two things, being still able to play glass-cannonish, and multiple damage boosting passives. We have same gear and same scaling beside those as every other class in game, it's just that we can stack multiple dps passives to cross buff them, instead paying with not having single one that would decrease damage we take, be it by flat reduction, or boost to armor/resist.
Our higher damage also is possible only because of two things, being still able to play glass-cannonish, and multiple damage boosting passives. We have same gear and same scaling beside those as every other class in game, it's just that we can stack multiple dps passives to cross buff them, instead paying with not having single one that would decrease damage we take, be it by flat reduction, or boost to armor/resist.
I agree, but you forgot being able to use an offhand even while using a 2 hander -- that's our biggest advantage. Doesn't really matter why we're op. The fact is, we are still vastly more powerful than any other class.
I dont think DH is broken. However, the fact Blizzard makes everything possible to kill glass cannon builds eventhough it was failure on their part because of how they equiped DHs with defensive skills. The fact that there is not a single skill, active or passive, that help you survive a hit is easy give away that Blizzard themselves wanted DHs to be played as hide-a-kill class. When players develop that idea into perfection by creating glass cannon build & gear totaly focused on killing stuff before it kills you, it is suddenly an issue. They nerfed outgoing damage in later acts to help every class in D3 yet they have not done anything to help DH to survive.
This isn't even close to being true anymore. I have 14k hp and only like 200 resist all, and i can tank multiple spearmen/quillbeast hits in act 3 with ease with gloom. I've paid absolutely no attention to defense at all, and yet i can still tank multiple hits from most ranged mobs with just gloom. A demon hunter that puts some emphasis on defense should be able to waltz through the game tanking most of the content with gloom alone.
nether tentacle was a bugfix you know not a nerf =)
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
so you think being able to cast an ability 10x times for 310% weapon damage with your resource pool was working as intended =) , Dh's need to look around at other classes sometimes and compare percentages =)
nether tentacle was a bugfix you know not a nerf =)
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
so you think being able to cast an ability 10x times for 310% weapon damage with your resource pool was working as intended =) , Dh's need to look around at other classes sometimes and compare percentages =)
The mechanic of the skill was working as intended. The DPS of the skill was FUBAR, and that's blizzard's fault. Explain to me why nether moves so slow (just like ball lightning) if it wasn't meant to hit multiple targets multiple times (just like ball lightning). All Blizzard had to do was nerf the damage. Instead, they removed the multi-hit mechanic (the entire reason for the skill moving so slow in the first place) and broke the skill's intended design. I don't see how what I'm saying is at all difficult to comprehend.
nether tentacle was a bugfix you know not a nerf =)
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
so you think being able to cast an ability 10x times for 310% weapon damage with your resource pool was working as intended =) , Dh's need to look around at other classes sometimes and compare percentages =)
The mechanic of the skill was working as intended. The DPS of the skill was FUBAR, and that's blizzard's fault. Explain to me why nether moves so slow (just like ball lightning) if it wasn't meant to hit multiple targets multiple times (just like ball lightning). All Blizzard had to do was nerf the damage. Instead, they removed the multi-hit mechanic (the entire reason for the skill moving so slow in the first place) and broke the skill's intended design. I don't see how what I'm saying is at all difficult to comprehend.
variation between skills ...
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First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
- Clay Shelton
I only read the first paragraph so let me apologize. I don't care about game-breaking. This is not an MMO. Maybe it would be broken for PVP (when that ever gets implemented). But don't tell me its broken when 4PC Natalya bonus set is allowed to be in place. Blizz is definitely backpeddling since they lost a ton of people playing. I am hoping they make us even more OP. As of this moment, we have absolutely nothing to offer in co-op.
profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/vanboon-1499/hero/3962228
http://i.imgur.com/8AfIp.jpg 4/4pc natalyza dps: 73k (w/o ss), dex: 1967, health: 22k, resist: ~150, mf: 90%/261%
Best dps in the game is nothing to offer? My friend plays a monk and he loves grouping with me. Since I can focus on damage while he has to build tanky, I literally do 9x his dps. We're beyond OP it isn't even funny. I sure as hell ain't complaining.
If you have no idea what you're even posting about, then don't post? Herp derp logic derp herp?
- Clay Shelton
Nether tentacle was a bit OP, granted, but it is still a 100% necessary skill. Sure, could use multishot at its near useless 20 hatred a shot.... noty. Could use another elemental arrow... but... noty. Nether tentacle still pierces all targets, something that is essential against invulnerable mobs. It also has the life steal on it, which makes it nearly a must have against reflect damage mobs unless you have massively stacked other sources of healing via attacking.
As to people bitching about DH being nerfed into the ground, the combination of the IAS nerf and the nether tentacle nerf hurt a lot of DH's bad. I myself lost nearly 40k DPS from the IAS nerf and then losing the extra hits from nether tentacle was like... OMG i suck. But it didn't take long to regear myself.
Plus people need to realize we still get the best IAS in game with the proper gear. A 20% deadeye quiver with bonus damage to hungering arrow is insane. I actually picked one up off the AH for 1 mil, someone obviously didn't know what they had. 20% IAS, 8% dmg to hungering arrow, 165 agi, 70 vit, 1.08 hatred regen. Oh, and a socket. Yeah... win.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane with next to no life regain due to Inferno scaling. Multishot is nice for trash, but it's close range (not being able to even hit whole length of screen) makes it questionable to use against jailer/mortar/waller/teleport/vortex, not to mention it may be next thing on chopping block, the 50% hatred cost reduction rune is pretty much mandatory if you ever want to use it.
Impale is single target, which make runing anything other than Overpenetration iffy. Single target in this game works only if you face act bosses and perhaps if you finished all minions somehow from champ pack leaving golden mob. Unless you have 100k dps+ unbuffed, you will kite mobs for hours trying to get enough Hatred to kill whole elite packs with it.
Comparing other classes is pointless, I don't care for them. I rerolled from WD when I found I am unable to play in a way that suits me (pet or dot spread build, while not dying whole time to unkiteble enemies due to limited kiting arsenal). If other classes are struggling, why nerf DH and not buff those classes instead? It only leads to the point where every single class is struggling, and then you have blanket nerf on Inferno itself.
We're far from broken, in fact, we may have the best working resource system in game, both hatred AND discipline, THE FUN HAS BEEN DOUBLED. WD struggle on mana (static mana regen on growing mana cost of spells, k...), Barbs are not spending fury, Monk have barely any worthwhile spenders beside Mantra Spam, and Wiz... I guess they work too. But that doesn't offset fact that Nether Tentacle nerf hurt, together with not getting any changes to underused skills (non-bat familiar, sentry, strafe).
While any DH can take advantage of nether and IAS, the same can't be said about the natalyas set. I'll be the first to admit that the 4 piece bonus is totally out of line. But the difference between this and the IAS/nether nerf is that only a small fraction of the DH population actually has access to the set without totally gimping their dps. Every DH could spam nether to victory. How many DHs have a decent set of 4 piece natalyas? Basically, Blizzard had to balance their options and determine if a small fraction of the population being OP was worth nerfing gear that people had spent gold/rmah money on. Ultimately, they decided that they could deal with a little OP. Once the dust from the nerfs settled, we STILL remain the most OP class in the game. Anyone who complains about us being nerfed "to the ground" doesn't have a clue of what the other classes have to deal with.
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
You're wrong. It deals amazing damage, 155% weapon damage. It hits everything in a narrow lane, which means its doing 155% weapon damage times however many mobs you get in the lane. If you were intelligent enough to know how to actually use the ability hitting EVERY mob you have aggro on is a non issue. If you are too stupid to use the skill properly, that is no ones fault but your own, but since you are complaining about the "very narrow lane" you obviously don't know what you're doing. As such anything further in your post is probably more utter garbage and wasn't worth reading.
Nether tentacle was nerfed, balanced, whatever. Fine, it was OP as hell. I was killing inferno butcher in less then 15 seconds they way it was. Now I actually have to do more than stand and spam one ability at him till my hatred is gone. I find Butcher farming to be a lot more interesting now. It was a good and needed change. People complaining about it are just a bunch of bads who apparently can't play something thats not ridiculously OP.
Actually, it didn't hurt us more than other classes. It actually hurt us a lot less than it did other classes. The IAS nerf did not apply to quivers, so we still have prenerf IAS values on our quivers. Anyone saying it hurt us more than anyone else is simply showing their bias towards DH's and not thinking about what they are saying.
First, re-read what i said, i never stated that it hurts the DH more than the other classes. However, with that said, it DOES hurt us more than anyone else. Why you ask? Because all IAS does is act as a MULTIPLIER on your base dps. Since we have the highest base dps, a reduction in IAS results in a higher loss in net dps. Case in point, Athene went from 210k dps without sharpshooter to 140k dps without sharpshooter after the nerf. Think about that -- he lost 70k dps . Have you even met anyone that's not a demon hunter that even HAS 70k dps? This is also true if crit damage or crit % is nerfed; since we have the most dps out of anyone, we have the most dps to lose.
Edit for IaS:
It is percentage, that's why I don't see point bringing it to DH specifically. If we did 30% more dps than other classes before attack speed, we will continue to do 30% more damage past nerf. Flat numbers on character sheet means nothing, it's all relative.
Our higher damage also is possible only because of two things, being still able to play glass-cannonish, and multiple damage boosting passives. We have same gear and same scaling beside those as every other class in game, it's just that we can stack multiple dps passives to cross buff them, instead paying with not having single one that would decrease damage we take, be it by flat reduction, or boost to armor/resist.
I agree, but you forgot being able to use an offhand even while using a 2 hander -- that's our biggest advantage. Doesn't really matter why we're op. The fact is, we are still vastly more powerful than any other class.
This isn't even close to being true anymore. I have 14k hp and only like 200 resist all, and i can tank multiple spearmen/quillbeast hits in act 3 with ease with gloom. I've paid absolutely no attention to defense at all, and yet i can still tank multiple hits from most ranged mobs with just gloom. A demon hunter that puts some emphasis on defense should be able to waltz through the game tanking most of the content with gloom alone.
so you think being able to cast an ability 10x times for 310% weapon damage with your resource pool was working as intended =) , Dh's need to look around at other classes sometimes and compare percentages =)
The mechanic of the skill was working as intended. The DPS of the skill was FUBAR, and that's blizzard's fault. Explain to me why nether moves so slow (just like ball lightning) if it wasn't meant to hit multiple targets multiple times (just like ball lightning). All Blizzard had to do was nerf the damage. Instead, they removed the multi-hit mechanic (the entire reason for the skill moving so slow in the first place) and broke the skill's intended design. I don't see how what I'm saying is at all difficult to comprehend.
variation between skills ...