There isn't anything wrong with Sader but there is something wrong when you compare it to dh/barb.
Add Firebird wiz in that list because they just have to nuke to 3000% and things will die guaranteed, and all of a sudden you're saying there's only something wrong with sader when compared to half of the classes. Also, I'm hearing DH got buffed which is hilarious.
lol lol you scrubs. get back on topic. no one cares about 1h or 2h weapons. HS is fine because we get a shield too (maybe the dmg decrease could be a LITTLE less but thats nitpicking).
the reason why saders are stuck is because of the one and only one reason someone else stated above somewhere:
we have to stick around and take dmg that other classes can avoid.
dh's are completely broken with perma smokescreen and sentries in general (havent played ptr, hopefully changes combined with new dh set will fix dh. dh is an archery class not a retarded engineer class. sentries have made dh unplayable to me)
wizard firebird is burn while running away
raekor barb is perma stun while push/dragging stuff around
monk solo rift is probably worse off than sader so ill leave that alone
havent played wd in a long long time, so i cant comment on that.
the problem is condemn in a group with blade of prophecy equipped is probably the most dps in the game, but we have to stand around in the middle while face tanking...trying to play with flawed vacuum pull mechanics to stay safe and proc strongarm. falls well short of barbs perma cc raekor charge also with strongarm
so..some people try to avoid the damage altogether with phalanx stampede! then youre a ranged class and youre compared to dh's and wiz's which are SUPER safe with more or equal damage.
what are the improvements necessary you ask? increase condemn damage to not have to face tank as long. increase tankiness drastically so we can stick around in the middle condemning.
roland wont work because AC is required. AC requirement wont change unless theres a HUGE crusader overhaul, which blizzard will never do. stampede shouldnt be compared to condemn because comparing melee with ranged is too different. When compared to ranged classes, phalanx is simply trash and cant be saved without a class changing overhaul or introduction of game breaking weapons. Seriously to compare to (current) DH phalanx would need some rune that makes it spawn illusions that also cast phalanx with no damage gimp PLUS almost permanent invincibility (constant invulnerability passive or something). To compare with wiz it would have to be phalanx dmg burns permanently while the sader rides his horsie around finding new mobs.
Honestly, any and all links, resources, or advice is appreciated.
My advice is to troll the class forums and build pages on diablofans. Also, I hear reddit is a good place for information. Your open ended question can only get an open ended answer.
Crusader is still my favorite. If you're only going for T5-6 and not higher Greater Rifts, you have plenty of options on most of the classes. It's not until GR 30+ where you start to get pigeon holed into the very, very few viable late game specs per class.
Anyway, for good old sader, old school firelight and holy shotgun specs still work well for T6. People have gotten the stupid shield throw spam build to work in high torment as well as thorns and blessed hammer. I hear Roland's set is fine for T6 too. The two most common builds are Condemn (seasonal) and Phalanx - Stampede though.
I've only personally tried Sunwuko build (found all the items on my sader, so I figured why not) and the lightning dash build. Obviously zdps pull monk is great in group play.
WD has many, many viable builds, but most of them center on somewhat rare items such as Furnace for Jade set, Starmetal Kukri/Rhenho for some others. I've seen someone do the fetish poison dart thing in T6 somewhat effectively.
TL:DR; If you're going for torment instead of greater rifts, you have PLENTY of options. If you want to push for higher Greater Rifts, you have only 1 or 2 options per class.
agree completely. kadala (unfortunately) is the most efficient way to gear new characters if you already have geared characters. second best way is to straight up leech off friends/clan mates on t6 regular rifts with all barbs for loot share.
you all bitch and moan about wanting to keep dh as is even though its true dh is overpowered. they can def use a nerf (SLIGHT not the insane hardcore build killing nerfs blizzard is known for), and other classes and specs can definitely use a buff. there have been valid ideas here like giving sentries hp like other pets, but you are all glancing over the only TRUE valid point OP made in my opinion:
...why make dh that only lays sentries, dh is supposed to be a archer class shot arrows and etc not an engineer class...
it does annoy me that dh has become an engineer class. there was a dh main in my clan who REFUSED to play m6 despite its superiority for this particular reason (the preparation gimp forced her to m6 after all but she fought the good fight for awhile).
There will always be pros and cons of different classes and specs, and some will always rise above others. But it's ridiculous for DH's to turn into engineers, and ALL valid specs of dh use m6. they just switch elements around. at least for crusader there are both stampede and condemn builds even though both use akkhan. the eq set had its 15 minutes of glory for barb and is still viable for greater rifts around 25. wd has jade and pet. even monk has a few now including support pull, sunwuko, and lightning dash. wiz definitely got funneled into firebird only now too (i miss 1.xx perma archon with a passion).
it's also a joke about how blizz said they didnt want to gimp rorg and soj, and theyd rather buff other rings to that power level to give us build diversity. but in actuality rorg is still required for every build (and easier to farm for than ever), and all they did to address soj was to halve its drop rate! at least before the change to leorics crown, my sader ran full 6 piece akkhan with soj and unity...now leorics is a necessity which makes rorg a necessity!
all in all i honestly agree with OP other than the no skill and fap parts. it definitely feels like dh is the most bullshit class right now.
i agree with what everyone else said. gogok is a waste of a gem. condemn build without bop is like chainpocalypse build on wiz without wand of woh. it works (barely), but at a SMALL fraction of its potential. just play another build until you find bop. play loot share sader parties. i wouldnt waste shards on gambling for it. even a horrendously rolled bop is better than no bop for condemn build.
yes dot ticks like haunt and firebird no longer crit, so youll have to turn on whatever the option is to show all damage not just critical damage as drildgen said
Arcane damage now rolls 30-40% (up from 20-25%). Existing MLWs will be re-rolled retroactively, though not scale in range (e.g., if you have a crappy 20% MLW it might re-roll to a perfect 40%, a perfect 25% might get re-rolled to the new minimum of 30%). Check PTR for re-rolls of existing MLWs.
lol @ darklight or fell. blade of prophecy is where its at.
is this a troll? I have a blade of prophecy with 10cdr and a socket str almost perfect and is no where near the damage output as darklight or fell - nice trolling
Not to mention that all top twitch crusaders have thoroughly went through the cons of BoP and vouche for darklight fire build or holy shotgun fotf build
nope no troll. damage is slightly less but not significant. darklight is fire while the other two (and my gear) is holy so i'll skip over that one. fotf build (WHY THE HELL IS IT CALLED SHOTGUN?!) does slightly more dmg but plays janky as hell. my personal preference is bop/condemn 1000 times over.
show me the cons of bop/condemn. in a large group (esp in a party where other ppl pull eg monk, blackhole, wd piranha) condemn outdmgs fotf easily. otherwise, just run past the first few mobs and have them chase you to the next group to make them more dense
Well you do People need to use phy with 3 spenders and 46+ tnt. I dont have 46+ tnt so i cant make the call. Razor disk is pretty darn good.
Elaborate please. Physical builds need 3 spenders CA/MS/CHAKRAM with 46% increased pet attack speed TNT? How come? What overall APS should they have? and are you saying this is better than fire or what? We need more information for this to be constructive not just a statement.
yes please. as a physical marauder with TnT (though only 42 i believe) i would like more information on this. i was under the impression that 2 spenders was the best regardless.
shoulder can be 8, hellskull can be 8. roll cdr on your soj. thats +13 before diminishing returns for you. so more like +7 or something. if you wanted rorg + crimson, that would be around 5 more cdr, putting you around 52%
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the reason why saders are stuck is because of the one and only one reason someone else stated above somewhere:
we have to stick around and take dmg that other classes can avoid.
dh's are completely broken with perma smokescreen and sentries in general (havent played ptr, hopefully changes combined with new dh set will fix dh. dh is an archery class not a retarded engineer class. sentries have made dh unplayable to me)
wizard firebird is burn while running away
raekor barb is perma stun while push/dragging stuff around
monk solo rift is probably worse off than sader so ill leave that alone
havent played wd in a long long time, so i cant comment on that.
the problem is condemn in a group with blade of prophecy equipped is probably the most dps in the game, but we have to stand around in the middle while face tanking...trying to play with flawed vacuum pull mechanics to stay safe and proc strongarm. falls well short of barbs perma cc raekor charge also with strongarm
so..some people try to avoid the damage altogether with phalanx stampede! then youre a ranged class and youre compared to dh's and wiz's which are SUPER safe with more or equal damage.
what are the improvements necessary you ask? increase condemn damage to not have to face tank as long. increase tankiness drastically so we can stick around in the middle condemning.
roland wont work because AC is required. AC requirement wont change unless theres a HUGE crusader overhaul, which blizzard will never do. stampede shouldnt be compared to condemn because comparing melee with ranged is too different. When compared to ranged classes, phalanx is simply trash and cant be saved without a class changing overhaul or introduction of game breaking weapons. Seriously to compare to (current) DH phalanx would need some rune that makes it spawn illusions that also cast phalanx with no damage gimp PLUS almost permanent invincibility (constant invulnerability passive or something). To compare with wiz it would have to be phalanx dmg burns permanently while the sader rides his horsie around finding new mobs.
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Anyway, for good old sader, old school firelight and holy shotgun specs still work well for T6. People have gotten the stupid shield throw spam build to work in high torment as well as thorns and blessed hammer. I hear Roland's set is fine for T6 too. The two most common builds are Condemn (seasonal) and Phalanx - Stampede though.
I've only personally tried Sunwuko build (found all the items on my sader, so I figured why not) and the lightning dash build. Obviously zdps pull monk is great in group play.
WD has many, many viable builds, but most of them center on somewhat rare items such as Furnace for Jade set, Starmetal Kukri/Rhenho for some others. I've seen someone do the fetish poison dart thing in T6 somewhat effectively.
TL:DR; If you're going for torment instead of greater rifts, you have PLENTY of options. If you want to push for higher Greater Rifts, you have only 1 or 2 options per class.
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it does annoy me that dh has become an engineer class. there was a dh main in my clan who REFUSED to play m6 despite its superiority for this particular reason (the preparation gimp forced her to m6 after all but she fought the good fight for awhile).
There will always be pros and cons of different classes and specs, and some will always rise above others. But it's ridiculous for DH's to turn into engineers, and ALL valid specs of dh use m6. they just switch elements around. at least for crusader there are both stampede and condemn builds even though both use akkhan. the eq set had its 15 minutes of glory for barb and is still viable for greater rifts around 25. wd has jade and pet. even monk has a few now including support pull, sunwuko, and lightning dash. wiz definitely got funneled into firebird only now too (i miss 1.xx perma archon with a passion).
it's also a joke about how blizz said they didnt want to gimp rorg and soj, and theyd rather buff other rings to that power level to give us build diversity. but in actuality rorg is still required for every build (and easier to farm for than ever), and all they did to address soj was to halve its drop rate! at least before the change to leorics crown, my sader ran full 6 piece akkhan with soj and unity...now leorics is a necessity which makes rorg a necessity!
all in all i honestly agree with OP other than the no skill and fap parts. it definitely feels like dh is the most bullshit class right now.
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Arcane damage now rolls 30-40% (up from 20-25%). Existing MLWs will be re-rolled retroactively, though not scale in range (e.g., if you have a crappy 20% MLW it might re-roll to a perfect 40%, a perfect 25% might get re-rolled to the new minimum of 30%). Check PTR for re-rolls of existing MLWs.
not happen at all? my moonlight is still 22%
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show me the cons of bop/condemn. in a large group (esp in a party where other ppl pull eg monk, blackhole, wd piranha) condemn outdmgs fotf easily. otherwise, just run past the first few mobs and have them chase you to the next group to make them more dense
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