I think that's a gross oversimplification. Itemization is "too easy". As in, it's too easy to make decisions on what items to equip, as they all follow the same line, depending on the slot, main-stat, crit, ias etc etc.
I don't think it matters how hard SC is. It could still be as hard as it was at launch and people would still bullet through as fast as they could, putting emphasis only on DPS. Only, they would die more than they do now.
Shields are boring. Make them not boring, it really is that simple.
Diablo 2 was wildly popular and it certainly wasn't hard. Diablo 3 is VERY HARD when you play HC. Very hard. Death comes easy in that realm.
PvP is where defense SHOULD play a part, but due to a wide range of reasons, PvP hasn't found it's niche as of yet. If PvP had a more intensive following and itemization was more dynamic and inspired, things like defense and shields would enter the fray as important to the player.
This is one of those issues that seems hard to solve, on the surface, it appears the shield is obsolete for SC play.
However, it really only requires looking toward Diablo 3's predecessor for clues as to how we can make them not only viable, but a good choice over weapons.
Thinking outside the box is necessary here. Adding a wide array of skills as possible rolls on shields could make them compete with dual-weaps.
All of these have offensive buffs. Adding IAS, movement speed, skill bonus buffs and especially multiple sockets (3-4) suddenly makes the prospect of putting down my off-hand weapon and snatching up a shield seem intriguing.
How about we talk gems? Nevermind the obvious (that we need a wider variety of gems/jewels) but look at your gems and what they contribute toward shields. More of the same linear, uninspired madness. Main-stat and Vita, that's it. LAME.
I can get that from my off-hand weapon, nevermind the DPS and IAS garnered from such.
Give gems a shield-specific bonus, something specific and apart from the main-stat bullshit. Give Shields multiple sockets. Give them offensive power to synergize with the shield's inherent protection attributes.
Class specific shields would be the right idea. i.e. Monk shields, Caster shields, Barb shields.
Thank you for starting this conversation, Lazard. This is a VERY important issue within the realm of itemization.
I'm curious what you feel kept players 6 years in D2? And do you feel D3 has that? And I don't mean this to come off as combative. None of us developed PoE or D3 right? :-P
Diablo 2 had friggin awesome itemization. It was endless fun to acquire and implement them across a range of skills. Most importantly, it was unique for it's time. Not so now, as it has inspired numerous knock-offs.
Many of the more ardent and habitual players seemed to approach the game as if they were collectors, of sorts. There was just so much depth in itemization.
Myself, like KageKaze said above, I played in approx 6 month stints, would tire of it and take a break for months, come back and get to it again. What caused me to bore of it was repetitive farming practices. Very very little options for farming. It was literally the same few bosses over and over again for years.
Actually, I was heavily involved in melee dueling tournaments, the whole Zealot sub-culture. That's what got me truly hooked and gave me incentive to farm those few areas so much. I always had a thing for the Zealot, can't really explain it. Hence my Monk build I use today in D3. It's the closest thing to the Zealot I could manage, a speed freak build.
Eventually, I logged in sometime in late 2007 and I just didn't feel it anymore. I knew it was time, like an old sports player knowing it was time to retire, I knew it was time to move on. I gave an unreal amount of top-shelf Zealot gear to a friend and I walked away for good.
I'm still holding out hope that a similar sub-culture may show itself in D3. A melee dueling league with GM rules and tournaments hosted by the players. Alas, sadly, much of what Blizz has done to this point has hurt any chance of this taking form for some time.
I have an honest question for the PoE players out there.
What, specifically, do you think will cause you to continue to play PoE for years and years to come?
they have new contents out every week, new ladder season, new races, new pvp formats and leagues. POE put out new stuffs way quicker than blizzard ever did, with a very small budget compare to what blizzard has in its arsenal.
PoE is in BETA.
Of course it's getting new adds.
I'm not a fan of ladders and I don't even want to know what kind of Mario Cart bullshit these races are. Having my name at the top of a list is not a care of mine.
I honesty feel the core of PoE, it's gameplay mechanics in combat specifically, is poor and this aspect will wear down on people. I get this feeling people are trying to champion PoE to spite Diablo, and this is not a sustainable practice.
I'm still not hearing anything intrinsic about PoE that will have players stuck to it for 6+ years. They seem to have a very inspired itemization and a (overly?) complex skill system, which I credit them for. However, without good, smooth gameplay mechanics, none of that will matter for long.
From what I've seen, in terms of combat/gameplay, PoE isn't in the same league as D3. Not even remotely comparable.
Ah, well it's a Shadow (character class) that uses Claw weapons. hehe
You sneaky ninja type person you......
I kind of feel bad, I feel like I've been bashing PoE. it's not like I hate the game. I just don't think I get as much enjoyment out of it as I was expecting. It's like I love the IDEA of PoE, but his drinking keeps pushing me away.. but I know he loves me so I keep comming back as he whispers "it'll be better this time I promise"...
You're driving in the direction I had hoped to hear. And that is, no game is perfect. Far from it. In actuality, ALL games have serious issues that turn-off many players. Some people don't think these issues are enough to stop them from playing. Some players will feel the same issues are too much, causing them to quit.
I think people should keep this in mind when judging D3. What may be a fatal flaw to one player, will not bother another player. Some players love X while others hate it.
I loved Diablo 2. IMO it's the best experience I've ever had gaming. A special place in my heart, that game has won.
However, looking back, heck, even while playing it, I can name off a list of things I absolutely HATED about it. HATED. GOD FUGGIN DAMMIT THESE DUPES THE FUCK ...etc..etc...I need not volley off my list of complaints, you get the idea.
I'm getting to a point where I think people just like to complain these days more than ever, perhaps a symptom of the instant information age via internet. This includes me BTW...<<<<cynical asshat
For every game that you read hundreds of thousands of people love it....you'll read hundreds of thousands of people that frickin hate it. Is this a communication issue? As in...too much communication?
Did we not realize fully how many people hated D2 because the internet wasn't the creature it is today?
well I was having fun with my claw shadow, but I wasn't sure about longivity. However, something that does keep me comming back is to see all the new skills they've added If they can keep that up, I might keep trying it, but I'm afraid that will only last so long.
I'm not sure what a claw shadow is?
Anywho...what I'm asking is, gimme something intrinsic about the game itself that you (anyone) feel is to such a level of quality that you can see a similar draw as we had with Diablo 2. What is there intrinsically about the game that you feel may suck you in and create a similar "addiction" as Diablo 2 presented itself as to so many folks?
I say this because so many people are disappointed that D3 doesn't have D2's addictive, cocaine like draw, causing players to not be able to quit.
Shortly after making such comparison, people compare PoE to D3.
So I think it's fair to ask what is it, specifically, that is intrinsic to PoE as a whole that you think may cause you to play for years and years?
FattyXP is being serious. Brawling is LITERALLY gay. As in, when you join a brawl, your character appears in the arena naked and several homosexual barbarians have at your backside for hours.
I won't use this feature. In online multiplayer games where you play with strangers not friends, I always think of those strangers as a very smart bot. It really creeps me out to play with real strangers that are really human, especially those living nearby.
2
I think that's a gross oversimplification. Itemization is "too easy". As in, it's too easy to make decisions on what items to equip, as they all follow the same line, depending on the slot, main-stat, crit, ias etc etc.
I don't think it matters how hard SC is. It could still be as hard as it was at launch and people would still bullet through as fast as they could, putting emphasis only on DPS. Only, they would die more than they do now.
Shields are boring. Make them not boring, it really is that simple.
Diablo 2 was wildly popular and it certainly wasn't hard. Diablo 3 is VERY HARD when you play HC. Very hard. Death comes easy in that realm.
PvP is where defense SHOULD play a part, but due to a wide range of reasons, PvP hasn't found it's niche as of yet. If PvP had a more intensive following and itemization was more dynamic and inspired, things like defense and shields would enter the fray as important to the player.
3
However, it really only requires looking toward Diablo 3's predecessor for clues as to how we can make them not only viable, but a good choice over weapons.
Thinking outside the box is necessary here. Adding a wide array of skills as possible rolls on shields could make them compete with dual-weaps.
All of these have offensive buffs. Adding IAS, movement speed, skill bonus buffs and especially multiple sockets (3-4) suddenly makes the prospect of putting down my off-hand weapon and snatching up a shield seem intriguing.
How about we talk gems? Nevermind the obvious (that we need a wider variety of gems/jewels) but look at your gems and what they contribute toward shields. More of the same linear, uninspired madness. Main-stat and Vita, that's it. LAME.
I can get that from my off-hand weapon, nevermind the DPS and IAS garnered from such.
Give gems a shield-specific bonus, something specific and apart from the main-stat bullshit. Give Shields multiple sockets. Give them offensive power to synergize with the shield's inherent protection attributes.
Class specific shields would be the right idea. i.e. Monk shields, Caster shields, Barb shields.
Thank you for starting this conversation, Lazard. This is a VERY important issue within the realm of itemization.
2
Diablo 2 had friggin awesome itemization. It was endless fun to acquire and implement them across a range of skills. Most importantly, it was unique for it's time. Not so now, as it has inspired numerous knock-offs.
Many of the more ardent and habitual players seemed to approach the game as if they were collectors, of sorts. There was just so much depth in itemization.
Myself, like KageKaze said above, I played in approx 6 month stints, would tire of it and take a break for months, come back and get to it again. What caused me to bore of it was repetitive farming practices. Very very little options for farming. It was literally the same few bosses over and over again for years.
Actually, I was heavily involved in melee dueling tournaments, the whole Zealot sub-culture. That's what got me truly hooked and gave me incentive to farm those few areas so much. I always had a thing for the Zealot, can't really explain it. Hence my Monk build I use today in D3. It's the closest thing to the Zealot I could manage, a speed freak build.
Eventually, I logged in sometime in late 2007 and I just didn't feel it anymore. I knew it was time, like an old sports player knowing it was time to retire, I knew it was time to move on. I gave an unreal amount of top-shelf Zealot gear to a friend and I walked away for good.
I'm still holding out hope that a similar sub-culture may show itself in D3. A melee dueling league with GM rules and tournaments hosted by the players. Alas, sadly, much of what Blizz has done to this point has hurt any chance of this taking form for some time.
1
PoE is in BETA.
Of course it's getting new adds.
I'm not a fan of ladders and I don't even want to know what kind of Mario Cart bullshit these races are. Having my name at the top of a list is not a care of mine.
I honesty feel the core of PoE, it's gameplay mechanics in combat specifically, is poor and this aspect will wear down on people. I get this feeling people are trying to champion PoE to spite Diablo, and this is not a sustainable practice.
I'm still not hearing anything intrinsic about PoE that will have players stuck to it for 6+ years. They seem to have a very inspired itemization and a (overly?) complex skill system, which I credit them for. However, without good, smooth gameplay mechanics, none of that will matter for long.
From what I've seen, in terms of combat/gameplay, PoE isn't in the same league as D3. Not even remotely comparable.
It's a good thing they're giving it away.
1
OHHH YEAH! Smack my bad baby bottom!!
2
2
You sneaky ninja type person you......
You're driving in the direction I had hoped to hear. And that is, no game is perfect. Far from it. In actuality, ALL games have serious issues that turn-off many players. Some people don't think these issues are enough to stop them from playing. Some players will feel the same issues are too much, causing them to quit.
I think people should keep this in mind when judging D3. What may be a fatal flaw to one player, will not bother another player. Some players love X while others hate it.
I loved Diablo 2. IMO it's the best experience I've ever had gaming. A special place in my heart, that game has won.
However, looking back, heck, even while playing it, I can name off a list of things I absolutely HATED about it. HATED. GOD FUGGIN DAMMIT THESE DUPES THE FUCK ...etc..etc...I need not volley off my list of complaints, you get the idea.
I'm getting to a point where I think people just like to complain these days more than ever, perhaps a symptom of the instant information age via internet. This includes me BTW...<<<<cynical asshat
For every game that you read hundreds of thousands of people love it....you'll read hundreds of thousands of people that frickin hate it. Is this a communication issue? As in...too much communication?
Did we not realize fully how many people hated D2 because the internet wasn't the creature it is today?
1
I'm not sure what a claw shadow is?
Anywho...what I'm asking is, gimme something intrinsic about the game itself that you (anyone) feel is to such a level of quality that you can see a similar draw as we had with Diablo 2. What is there intrinsically about the game that you feel may suck you in and create a similar "addiction" as Diablo 2 presented itself as to so many folks?
I say this because so many people are disappointed that D3 doesn't have D2's addictive, cocaine like draw, causing players to not be able to quit.
Shortly after making such comparison, people compare PoE to D3.
So I think it's fair to ask what is it, specifically, that is intrinsic to PoE as a whole that you think may cause you to play for years and years?
1
FattyXP is being serious. Brawling is LITERALLY gay. As in, when you join a brawl, your character appears in the arena naked and several homosexual barbarians have at your backside for hours.
1
I second this dafaq and raise you a dafaqinghell
Also....questionmark?