Ok, so those wanting an even bigger pvp experience, let me ask you this. If they came out with a SC3, and I started getting mad because I want them to pay more attention to the PVE (first player) aspect, and started saying that the PVE aspect has always been a huge chunk of the endgame, wouldn't that seem ridiculous? SC was made with a cool storyline and PVE, but it's PVP focused, you can't argue that.
You can get mad at the PvE aspect of that game because SC2 campaign sucked and I wish they put a lot more effort into it. I would 100% agree and back you up with that point that they completely lacked storyline in their solo player game and it's not up to par of what it should be.
But wait wait wait.. End game SC? No, that doesn't work for this arguement because it's not an RPG or MMO game. They are completely different game types. You just seem to be ignoring the fact that PvP WAS a big deal in D2 and people who PvPed in D2 are feeling really let down about D3 because it's not up to par of what it should be. Is Diablo a PvE focused for game the majority of the game? Yes. Will PvP be a large part of the end game for players in D3? Absolutely. Will it be supported the way it should be for the D2 to D3 community? Not at all.
I understand that and even said in previous posts that I understand it. Does that change my opinion of wanting it in the game anyways? Nope. Pushing it towards an eSport is good for the game and even if Blizzard is pressured to make it an eSport or do anything past ladders doesn't matter. There's already pressure to make it an eSport. How about Blizz just grants us this wish and then they can go back to ignoring the PvP community. I'd be happy with that.
I totally understand you now, it seems like you don't know what a proper esport is. You can't "make" something an esport and then ignore it, that's not how it works at all. An esport is maintained, constantly balanced over every single detail (which is IMPOSSIBLE in a game with this much customization). The pressure to make it an esport is VERY low, it's just from the noisy pvpers, several polls show this, and Jay has said he'll never make it an esport, never, ever. Blizz has sc2 and wow arena as esports.
What you want is some more support for pvp, not an esport, well you might want esport, but I hope even you realize that takes an equal amount of time as learning all known numbers in pi. This game is too customized for an esport.
You didn't read what I said at all lol holy.. I said I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN ESPORT. I gotta use caps because people seem to have this flying over their heads. I just want a ladder system that records your teams record and for them not to have this "fuck you pvp guy" mentality that Blizzard has. That's it. PvP'ers are part of the community as well and I think the PvP community is a lot bigger then people seem to realize. I know there's polls taken etc.. But TBH it seems like everyone here is a WoW MMO PvE Carebear that's moved onto D3.. No offence, but that's really how I see it lol. I literally know no one who is happy about Blizzard's choice to not support PvP in D3. All of my online friends are against it and all of my IRL friends are against it. It might just be the hundreds of people I'ved talked to about Diablo 2 with that loved PvP a lot but I doubt it..
STOP SAYING ESPORTS OH MY GOD! I said it once as a reference on how it would be good for the game (because it would be). Get off that god damn one word. Ladder doesn't = eSports. Ladder = a place common casuals can be competitive.
See, you're not getting what I'm trying to explain...or you're ignoring it. The reason ladders and rankings cannot be implemented is because it would be a direction towards eSports. It would create a situation where Blizzard would be pressured by tournaments and such to balance the game around the ladders and rankings. It essentially would force Blizzard's hand in making the game an eSport focused game. Since Blizzard does not want PvP design controlling PvE design, they chose to stay away from eSport features in D3.
Do you understand now?
I understand that and even said in previous posts that I understand it. Does that change my opinion of wanting it in the game anyways? Nope. Pushing it towards an eSport is good for the game and even if Blizzard is pressured to make it an eSport or do anything past ladders doesn't matter. There's already pressure to make it an eSport. How about Blizz just grants us this wish and then they can go back to ignoring the PvP community. I'd be happy with that.
That really isn't saying anything, PvP WAS endgame, and the biggest part of it when d2 was actually a prevalent game still. Most of the PvP community has simply moved onto other games while we wait for diablo 3 to come out. You can find most of them in starcraft 2, dota 2, counterstrike 1.6, quakelive etc, pretty much any game thats competitive, but we will return, in force. Don't you worry Carebear PvE'ers generally are the ones that troll these forums, which is why there are so many more of their voices heard, most PvP'ers couldn't care less what the PvE community wants, but I figured i'd at least take the time to try and talk some sense into you guys Some of you are beyond saving unfortunately, but a few of you seem to be rational.
So, you're attempting to explain why PvP is important by insulting the people you want to sway...awesome idea. If the majority of PvP players have left D2 and the majority of PvE players have left D2...then shouldn't the fact that people still prefer PvE over PvP there say something? Blizzard themselves wants D3 focused on PvE. The vocal majority wants D3 focused on PvE. How can you rationalize Blizzard focusing on PvP when the majority of input they get says to focus on PvE? I've not been trolling, I've been actually explaining the methods, reasons, and such as to why Blizzard made the choice they did. The ones that seem more like they are tolling are those like yourself that seemingly ignore the reasons and shout that Blizzard is bad if they don't make eSport PvP. If you don't want the PvP that Blizzard plans on offering...and you don't care to enjoy the game purely for PvE...don't buy the game. I know that I for one will be glad to not having to play with people complaining about PvP constantly as I enjoy the game for what it is and has always been, PvE.
That's where you and I disagree though, I think you are incorrect in believing that the majority wants what you do. They don't . It's a seriously small little minority of you that are so paranoid of Esports.
STOP SAYING ESPORTS OH MY GOD! I said it once as a reference on how it would be good for the game (because it would be). Get off that god damn one word. Ladder doesn't = eSports. Ladder = a place common casuals can be competitive.
I disagree, I don't think the "majority" has that opinion at all. Infact, I think it's just an insanely vocal and ignorant minority of you that won't just shut up and let the game actually be good.
Actually, you're wrong. The majority of PvE players wouldn't have a reason to even post here because they are getting what they want, nice PvE and casual PvP. Those of us being vocal like discussions and wish to try explain WHY eSport PvP isn't practical. Even in Diablo 2 right now, elite PvP is the minority. This is year and years after the majority of old PvE focused players have left the game. That should tell you that the PvP community is VERY small compared to the PvE. The reason the PvP community is being so vocal now is they are upset that they aren't getting what they want, despite the game never being intended to be that way.
That really isn't saying anything, PvP WAS endgame, and the biggest part of it when d2 was actually a prevalent game still. Most of the PvP community has simply moved onto other games while we wait for diablo 3 to come out.
You can find most of them in starcraft 2, dota 2, counterstrike 1.6, quakelive etc, pretty much any game thats competitive, but we will return, in force. Don't you worry
Carebear PvE'ers generally are the ones that troll these forums, which is why there are so many more of their voices heard, most PvP'ers couldn't care less what the PvE community wants, but I figured i'd at least take the time to try and talk some sense into you guys
Some of you are beyond saving unfortunately, but a few of you seem to be rational.
I don't think the Carebear PvE'ers realize that PvP players also enjoy PvE. I want the game to have a big PvE focus. I am aware it's a big part of the game, I also want PvP to be a focus though because this game isn't WoW. They have the power to balance both, and they should have the resources to do so because Diablo isn't a game that will be forcing out never ending content. It's a story line that starts, and eventually ends. With that being said PvP will eventually take over the game just like it did in D2 and for that reason I want it to be a big part of the game.
I do not want this to be a 100% PvP focused game. I love the other aspects of the game as well. I do however think PvP is a large part of the end game for Diablo and should be supported, balanced for, and given a lot more attention.
In 4-5 years time; sure. You can have your PvP balance. But the end game that you keep rattling on about is a creation from MMO's.
Games don't NEED an endgame. Games can just have an end. Luckily for us; hack 'n' slash rpg's do have the loot whoring aspect which makes for an exciting end game. As well as perfect HC runs on all 5 classes. However that in itself is your end game, your goal. Getting to that point.
Beyond that, casual PvP or more likely, not playing too much until the next bit of PvE content. Something PvPers keep ignoring is that Blizzard have LIMITED RESOURCES!!! Any amount of time spent trying to balance or improve PvP is time taken away from devotion to getting the next batch of PvE content out. Yes they may have seperate teams but budget and man power will only stretch so far.
Look at SC2 - they focused so hard on making a PvP game; that the Single player falls a little short with a lot of filler missions because the game is primarily a PvP game. I do not want this to happen to Diablo thanks.
SC2 Campaign sucked because they had too many people working on PvP content? What? You can't be serious.. How does that even make sense. All of their RTS previously were balanced and had GREAT CAMPAIGNS! Like the best. Those were awesome storylines and they were made when Blizzard was a much smaller company. They were great online PvP games too. To say they don't have the resources is just a joke to me. To say that's why SC2 campaign failed is a joke as well. Blizzard is a changing company and is not what they used to be and that's the reason why we don't get a product like we used too.
Arenas ruined WoW for the 90% not interested in competitive PvP, they should have sticked with battlegrounds. If they start balancing Diablo 3 around PvP the game will be ruined.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
Im sorry but what? You seriously cannot compare scripted albeit random events to playing against multiple thinking, strategising humans. And this is coming from someone who is super exited to farm loot explore and unveil the storyline.
No kidding. There's a reason sporting events or rather sports in general get so much attention it's because despite the game being the same it's a new game every single time. PvE only people don't understand it apparently.
Ok OP, I didn't read the whole thread in-depth...but it seems to be the same thing being said that I've posted responses to many times. I think there are 3-4 threads at the top of this forum that pretty much are saying the same thing and you seemingly ignore all of them and post the same thing again...
Now, that said, I'm a PvE jerk...but it doesn't mean I won't actually play PvP. In fact, Blizzards new model for PvP is something that me and many other 'PvE jerks' will actually make use of as opposed to some form of eSport PvP. Now you'll go and complain that Diablo 3 PvP needs to have eSport features to be fun and my response is just 'tough'. The hardcore (elitist) PvP cowd is a minor group and shouldn't be catered to over the much larger group of casual PvE players that will likely play some of the new casual PvP because its fun and designed with them in mind.
As Jay Wilson said in his interview, adding eSport features such as ranking and such creates an expected obligation to balance the game as such. Since you obviously haven't actually studied what it takes to develop games and handle balance, let me tell you a few things...Since each class in Diablo has something like 6billion combinations of abilities, balancing at an eSport level would be a nightmare at minimum (potentially impossible). If you want an example of why, take a look at WoW PvP. Each character has around 40~ abilities each, and the game continually goes through constant revisions to attempt to create a PvP balance. This requires a team dedicated specifically to balancing around PvP and takes up a lot development resources.
So, you're essentially expecting Blizzard to assign an entire team of designers, artists, and developers to continually balance PvP at an eSport level. You're expecting this in order to cater to the minority that is the elitist PvP'ers over catering to the majority of their players by offering a casual PvP system like they are and then working on more PvE content.
I'm sorry, but that kind of expectation is just unreasonable...especially at this point in the game's development. The game was designed around making PvE extremely fun and all abilities, items, etc are based on that idea. To expect them to completely alter the design of the game to cater to an eSport level of PvP that will not likely be enjoyed by the majority of their players is unrealistic.
This is just the reality...Diablo 3 is a single player online hack and slash RPG that you can play with friends. It'll have a casual PvP system for people to mess around with friends, but it isn't the focus of the game and if you cannot enjoy it without eSport PvP....don't buy the game.
I feel like you didn't actually read my post at all and think that just because I said the word eSport once you're basing your entire arguement off that. I don't care if it's not an eSport I merely stated if it became one it would actually benifit the game.
I want support for it. I want a ladder. I want some balance changes to make it more on the fair side when I do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I never said that. I just want the game to be supported in one of its major aspects which is PvP. You can claim otherwise but I honestly don't know a single soul that played Diablo 2 just for the PvE content only. I went onto play a few mods after D2 to get more PvE content and loved it, it was awesome. Everyone else who played D2 played it exactly the same way I did with PvP in their minds for the end game. Literally. NO ONE I KNOW, thousands of people I've met online from game to game when I talk to them ever say. "Man doing Baal runs over and over again was by far the best part of the game!" because everyone knows that it wasn't. Grinding sucks, who likes grinding? What do you do once you beat the game is rinse and repeat only to get loot.
Also I don't think having a ladder is such a bad thing. People will get the wrong idea? Jay says it himself people will already be expecting / trying to make the game an eSport anyways so adding a ladder for people who don't care about it being an eSport and just wanna try and see if they can climb the ladder can do it. I mean if they're gonna ignore an entire community anyways I don't see the harm in adding a ladder to appease us. That's all I want. I want to be able to climb the ladder with my friends for fun, nothing more.
You gotta realize that the Diablo series is a PvM action RPG. They took out pvp for now so that the game can come out. I'm not sure if you've played the first 2 diablo, but I've seen a lot of new people asking loads of questions about Diablo 3 and some of them expect this game to be like WoW. Gotta release when arena was introduce to WoW, Blizzard balanced out PvP a lot and kinda killed PvE because they had to adjust to what spells were buffed and nerfed. Ironically, I would like to PvP in Diablo 3 but I don't want it to affect PvM, just cause a lot of juveniles will complain a lot how OP one spell or class is.
You guys aren't understanding me. I even say in my OP that I like PvE a lot, yet I don't believe that's the only thing to the game.
10:55 watch him talk about how they have a system that doesn't effect PvE when they balance for PvP and vicse versa. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO BOTH. Yet they just won't do it is why I am so upset about this.
I do not want this to be a 100% PvP focused game. I love the other aspects of the game as well. I do however think PvP is a large part of the end game for Diablo and should be supported, balanced for, and given a lot more attention.
Arenas ruined WoW for the 90% not interested in competitive PvP, they should have sticked with battlegrounds. If they start balancing Diablo 3 around PvP the game will be ruined.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
This isn't WoW. Again. This game isn't WoW. All you WoW PvE only players are so caught up on that. PVP RUINED WOW! No it didn't. I raided for 4-5 years and PvPed as well. Some loot spilled over into PvE and into PvP but it was far from ruining that game. Blizz ruined the game by themselfs by making it so kiddy PvE friendly. WoW stopped being fun and worth playing at the end of BC for me as the content just wasn't as good anymore. I ran an entire PvE guild. I loved PvE a lot too but I also enjoy PvP and would like to have both in the D3. You don't have to only balance for PvP and once again, they have a tool where they can balance PvP and PvE seperatly. I would like the D2 experience I had in D3. I would like to enjoy PvE and PvP side by side like I did in D2.
PvE jerk. You need to broaden your horizons as narrow minded people don't see very much. PvP is good for the game even if you don't see that.
I stopped reading the second you said PVP doesnt affect PVE at all. If you dont understand the relationship between them and what it takes to have cohesive balance in a game, then nothing even needs to be said about the issue, since you are incapable even perceiving the actual issue.
They can balanced them individually though.. Jay Wilson showed off his little tool that says hey here's how we can balance for PvP while it doesn't effect PvE! Skill wise yes. Some skills will be harder to balance for PvP because they're ment to be PvE abilities. I get that. Does that make supporting PvP in Diablo impossible or unable to happen what so ever? Of course not. There's so many skills it wouldn't be hard to limit some of them in PvP for the sake of balance. It's nonsense to claim that it's too hard to balance for both in a game like Diablo because..
NEWS FLASH
This isn't WoW. This isn't a game with never ending content. There won't be endless item updates on brand new bosses every patch. It will be a set amount of abilities and items for the most part (prolly a couple patches that introduce some new items) but other then that the game will stay the same for very long periods of time. Unless there's an expantion, and there most likely will be one or two of them, the game will eventually hit a state where nothing else is going on. Why em I talking about this? Because this is a Limited PvE game. Yes a limited PvE game. You beat the game and the storylines done. You then kill shit for items. You then trade those items. If you don't like PvP the game then stops there for you and you can go off and be happy killing the same bosses over and over again and trading for loot or you can go PvP and truly master your character.
PvP does work in this game and CAN be balanced for BECAUSE it's not WoW and you PvE people don't seem to get that. The game will hit a state many times over in where nothings going on but MFing / Trading and PvP. The game will ultimately end up in this state where Blizzard will go "Well what do we do now? I guess we can balance for PvP"
Unless they plan on making expantion after expantion with endless PvE content then I guess you PvE'ers would be right that PvP doesn't have a place in D3 because that's the only case where it wouldn't work for PvP just like it didn't work in WoW. If that isn't the case though and D3 will ultimately have a complete game and storyline then PvP will be the ultimate end game goal as it was in D2 and it should be supported, and balanced for or they're just hindering their game.
So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
Wow, quite a small one you got there mate... does it hurt so much? It's hard to comprehend Blizzard's line of thinking huh!?!
Anyway, to ease your pain even a little, Diablo was originally designed as a PvM game and was just later on upgraded to have PvP.
Besides, PvP would still be in on a later date as a patch, so I don't think you'll have anything more to worry about sonny. Don't rack your brain too much or it might get more painful for you "to see people against PvP in this game".
Here is the Blizzard Blue Poster post last March 9, 2012:
As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.
While we work on making sure PvP lives up to its full potential, we hope you’ll find some consolation in the fact that soon, you’ll be having a blast leveling characters, finding items, learning the classes, and perfecting builds…and that when the Arenas do arrive, you’ll be all the better prepared for battle.
When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We’ll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team’s skulls.
We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we’re in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.
We’ll have a lot more info to share on the PvP system in the future, and we look forward to the moment we can get the game into your hands.
.
There's the quote I was looking for that I didn't see. Still.. I'll believe it when I see it myself how they handle PvP. I watched Jay Wilsons interview and did he ever seem to dislike PvP in a big way. "over my dead body" was the quote that gets me from that interview which gives me little faith they will do PvP right.
Not ONCE and I mean ONCE, in my 10+ years of playing Diablo PvP, did I hear 1 person cry for esports, cry for nerfs, cry for buffs. NOT ONCE, do you kids understand this?
Liar.
EDIT: and no ladders, I think.
Says who? Someone who loves PvE.. Go play WoW then. Lot's of cooperation for you there with regularly updated content. Unless the way Diablo is played is changed (beat game, beat an expantion or two) the PvE content will be limited and will be rinse and repeat just like it was in D2. Great the first couple times around, then you move onto bigger and better things about the game. Diablo will always be an end game PvP game to me, NOT a PvE game.
Also zomg, yes it's called PvM in Diablo yet people from Blizzard call it PvE in D3.
Also my point is that they should be setting D3 up to as close as balanced as they possibly can and they should be supporting it with ladders and rankings. I haven't seen any post from Blizzard (may have just missed it, link if there is one) saying they will support PvP passed a mere arena area. Also yeah my post is emotional. It bugs the crap out of me that Blizz isn't supporting a major part of their game the way they should be.
So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
I mean lets be real about D2 for a second shall we? So you're level 90+ on almost every character.. You've already maxed out all the PvE content in the game 8x3 = 24+ times AT THE VERY LEAST! I played the game for 5-6 years and you can imagine how many times I beat the game over and over to get loot. So in terms of story line, original content, and really anything else to the game it's over with pretty quickly or at least Diablo 2 was. First run through is nice and takes a while, everything after that you're rushing a character through the game to get to a point where you can farm bosses for loot, to trade, then to PvP. Unless you play offline which takes a lot longer and can be done for a personal goal but that has again ZERO effect on PvP so it's irrelivent. Anywho the PvE aspect of this game has been covered in that Diablo 3 will most likely have a great story line (Played the Beta, It was awesome for me and I go into it) but once the game is beaten, (yes I know Blizz said I will die a lot and Inferno mode will be incredibly hard and most likely very fun but..) you just beat end game content over and over for more loot so you can..
TRADE! That's right. That's the other part of this fantastic game which was so incredibly fun! Blizzard has already managed to ruin that in Diablo 3 making items purchasable through the game (Yes I know websites would of been selling items anyways but doing this encourages every 12 year old with a credit card to have FAT LOOTS when all they did was drop 100 extra bucks on the game making them no better then anyone else which imo is complete bullshit to promote in a game BUT ANYWAYS!) You beat the hardest end game bosses for more loot! With this loot you trade it to get better loot! So you can kill bosses faster to get loot FASTER! So you can either end the game here for yourself and trade all day (not hating, tradings cool if you wanna trade all day but there's more to the game) or you can use that nicely aquired loot too..
KILL OTHER PLAYERS. Now onto the final stage of what Diablo 2 was. I played D2 for a long, long time. It the game I've returned too most in my entire life. Everytime I came back to the game it went exactly like how I wrote it down. PvE to get Items, then trade those items, so I can be good at PvP. To do anything otherwise seemed.. Pointless..? PvP was the ultimate end game in D2 if you really think about it.
I mean really, what else is there too the game? Kill stuff for rewards, then trade rewards for better stuff, then try and build the best character for PvP. Now you might say I have a flawed view of the game or I am just being biased towards PvE because I was an avid fan of PvP and still em but I will tell you, you're completely wrong if you think that.
I LOVE a good storyline. I LOVED D2's storyline. I watched every cinematic countless times because I just enjoyed the game so much in every aspect.I came back to the game not only because I loved it's PvP but because I loved playing Diablo the game so much. To not take advantage of what Diablo 2 had to offer was just silly, and still is silly in my eyes. There's three things you can do in D2. PvE for Loot. Trade Loot. PvP. That's it. You can choose to do 1/3 or 2/3 and limit the games full potential but I chose to do 3/3 and I enjoyed D2 more then any game in my entire life.
So when you have people spamming "WAHH WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ESPORT!" or "PVP WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE PVE CONTENT BECAUSE BLIZZARD WILL HAVE TO TRY AND BALANCE IT AND PUT RESOURCES ONTO SOMETHING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN!" I'd call you a selfish person then. If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential. I want D3 to be a kick ass storyline driven RPG as much as anyone does. In fact I am sick of all this PvP games I've been playing lately and I've been waiting for a great game with a great storyline to come out and I cannot wait for D3. Once I am done beating the game in 2-3 months I will want to move on from the RPG aspect and start PvPing again. Except I can't because it's not going to be supported what so ever..
The game will be completely imbalanced most likely for PvP. (I am aware D2 was imbalanced but D3 has the knowledge, the tools (the pve and pvp balancing tool which YES THEY DO HAVE!), and the time to make it balanced for the PvP community. Blizzard is a big boy company now since D2's release and they can handle this shit if they so choose too they just simply aren't which again, blows my mind) The game will have very little support for PvP compared to the PvE aspect and won't have any ranked system for players to go up against each other and see who's the best. To not promote or care about one of the three BIGGEST aspects let alone the ONLY three aspects of D2 makes me lose faith in Blizzard as a company and dims the light PC gaming as a whole as Blizzard has produced the best games I've ever played in the past, but it seems the future holds a different story for me and Blizzards relationship.
Supporting PvP supports the Diablo community. Supporting PvP as an eSport makes the game more popular then you can imagine. You want more PvE content? Well if the games an incredibly popular eSport it will give Blizz the money and motiviation to keep it comming with more great content for us. Supporting PvP just adds to the game. I think that's the biggest point here is that adding and supporting PvP just adds more content and things to do in the game which to my knowledge isn't a bad thing what so ever. I don't think I can stress that enough that it only adds to the greatness of what Diablo 3 can be.
So PvE'ers I am not sure what your problem is other then you want all the focus to be on PvE game for your own selfish needs because you've all made it so clear you don't dare about PvP in your game. PvP only makes Diablo 3 stronger in EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME and if you don't want to support that aspect guess what.. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO! Just go kill monsters and shit to trade over and over and let the community of PvP'ers be happy killing each other with that aquired loot.
PvE'ers by not supporting PvP you take away from the game, and most of all you take away from the community. Remember that when bashing PvP.
Blizzard by not supporting PvP the way it should be supported in Diablo 3 you take away from your game, and you let down the community. Remember that when neglecting a major aspect of what made your game popular and what kept people coming back to play it.
0
You can get mad at the PvE aspect of that game because SC2 campaign sucked and I wish they put a lot more effort into it. I would 100% agree and back you up with that point that they completely lacked storyline in their solo player game and it's not up to par of what it should be.
But wait wait wait.. End game SC? No, that doesn't work for this arguement because it's not an RPG or MMO game. They are completely different game types. You just seem to be ignoring the fact that PvP WAS a big deal in D2 and people who PvPed in D2 are feeling really let down about D3 because it's not up to par of what it should be. Is Diablo a PvE focused for game the majority of the game? Yes. Will PvP be a large part of the end game for players in D3? Absolutely. Will it be supported the way it should be for the D2 to D3 community? Not at all.
0
You didn't read what I said at all lol holy.. I said I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN ESPORT. I gotta use caps because people seem to have this flying over their heads. I just want a ladder system that records your teams record and for them not to have this "fuck you pvp guy" mentality that Blizzard has. That's it. PvP'ers are part of the community as well and I think the PvP community is a lot bigger then people seem to realize. I know there's polls taken etc.. But TBH it seems like everyone here is a WoW MMO PvE Carebear that's moved onto D3.. No offence, but that's really how I see it lol. I literally know no one who is happy about Blizzard's choice to not support PvP in D3. All of my online friends are against it and all of my IRL friends are against it. It might just be the hundreds of people I'ved talked to about Diablo 2 with that loved PvP a lot but I doubt it..
0
I understand that and even said in previous posts that I understand it. Does that change my opinion of wanting it in the game anyways? Nope. Pushing it towards an eSport is good for the game and even if Blizzard is pressured to make it an eSport or do anything past ladders doesn't matter. There's already pressure to make it an eSport. How about Blizz just grants us this wish and then they can go back to ignoring the PvP community. I'd be happy with that.
0
STOP SAYING ESPORTS OH MY GOD! I said it once as a reference on how it would be good for the game (because it would be). Get off that god damn one word. Ladder doesn't = eSports. Ladder = a place common casuals can be competitive.
0
I don't think the Carebear PvE'ers realize that PvP players also enjoy PvE. I want the game to have a big PvE focus. I am aware it's a big part of the game, I also want PvP to be a focus though because this game isn't WoW. They have the power to balance both, and they should have the resources to do so because Diablo isn't a game that will be forcing out never ending content. It's a story line that starts, and eventually ends. With that being said PvP will eventually take over the game just like it did in D2 and for that reason I want it to be a big part of the game.
0
SC2 Campaign sucked because they had too many people working on PvP content? What? You can't be serious.. How does that even make sense. All of their RTS previously were balanced and had GREAT CAMPAIGNS! Like the best. Those were awesome storylines and they were made when Blizzard was a much smaller company. They were great online PvP games too. To say they don't have the resources is just a joke to me. To say that's why SC2 campaign failed is a joke as well. Blizzard is a changing company and is not what they used to be and that's the reason why we don't get a product like we used too.
0
No kidding. There's a reason sporting events or rather sports in general get so much attention it's because despite the game being the same it's a new game every single time. PvE only people don't understand it apparently.
0
I feel like you didn't actually read my post at all and think that just because I said the word eSport once you're basing your entire arguement off that. I don't care if it's not an eSport I merely stated if it became one it would actually benifit the game.
I want support for it. I want a ladder. I want some balance changes to make it more on the fair side when I do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I never said that. I just want the game to be supported in one of its major aspects which is PvP. You can claim otherwise but I honestly don't know a single soul that played Diablo 2 just for the PvE content only. I went onto play a few mods after D2 to get more PvE content and loved it, it was awesome. Everyone else who played D2 played it exactly the same way I did with PvP in their minds for the end game. Literally. NO ONE I KNOW, thousands of people I've met online from game to game when I talk to them ever say. "Man doing Baal runs over and over again was by far the best part of the game!" because everyone knows that it wasn't. Grinding sucks, who likes grinding? What do you do once you beat the game is rinse and repeat only to get loot.
Also I don't think having a ladder is such a bad thing. People will get the wrong idea? Jay says it himself people will already be expecting / trying to make the game an eSport anyways so adding a ladder for people who don't care about it being an eSport and just wanna try and see if they can climb the ladder can do it. I mean if they're gonna ignore an entire community anyways I don't see the harm in adding a ladder to appease us. That's all I want. I want to be able to climb the ladder with my friends for fun, nothing more.
0
You guys aren't understanding me. I even say in my OP that I like PvE a lot, yet I don't believe that's the only thing to the game.
10:55 watch him talk about how they have a system that doesn't effect PvE when they balance for PvP and vicse versa. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO BOTH. Yet they just won't do it is why I am so upset about this.
I do not want this to be a 100% PvP focused game. I love the other aspects of the game as well. I do however think PvP is a large part of the end game for Diablo and should be supported, balanced for, and given a lot more attention.
0
This isn't WoW. Again. This game isn't WoW. All you WoW PvE only players are so caught up on that. PVP RUINED WOW! No it didn't. I raided for 4-5 years and PvPed as well. Some loot spilled over into PvE and into PvP but it was far from ruining that game. Blizz ruined the game by themselfs by making it so kiddy PvE friendly. WoW stopped being fun and worth playing at the end of BC for me as the content just wasn't as good anymore. I ran an entire PvE guild. I loved PvE a lot too but I also enjoy PvP and would like to have both in the D3. You don't have to only balance for PvP and once again, they have a tool where they can balance PvP and PvE seperatly. I would like the D2 experience I had in D3. I would like to enjoy PvE and PvP side by side like I did in D2.
PvE jerk. You need to broaden your horizons as narrow minded people don't see very much. PvP is good for the game even if you don't see that.
0
They can balanced them individually though.. Jay Wilson showed off his little tool that says hey here's how we can balance for PvP while it doesn't effect PvE! Skill wise yes. Some skills will be harder to balance for PvP because they're ment to be PvE abilities. I get that. Does that make supporting PvP in Diablo impossible or unable to happen what so ever? Of course not. There's so many skills it wouldn't be hard to limit some of them in PvP for the sake of balance. It's nonsense to claim that it's too hard to balance for both in a game like Diablo because..
NEWS FLASH
This isn't WoW. This isn't a game with never ending content. There won't be endless item updates on brand new bosses every patch. It will be a set amount of abilities and items for the most part (prolly a couple patches that introduce some new items) but other then that the game will stay the same for very long periods of time. Unless there's an expantion, and there most likely will be one or two of them, the game will eventually hit a state where nothing else is going on. Why em I talking about this? Because this is a Limited PvE game. Yes a limited PvE game. You beat the game and the storylines done. You then kill shit for items. You then trade those items. If you don't like PvP the game then stops there for you and you can go off and be happy killing the same bosses over and over again and trading for loot or you can go PvP and truly master your character.
PvP does work in this game and CAN be balanced for BECAUSE it's not WoW and you PvE people don't seem to get that. The game will hit a state many times over in where nothings going on but MFing / Trading and PvP. The game will ultimately end up in this state where Blizzard will go "Well what do we do now? I guess we can balance for PvP"
Unless they plan on making expantion after expantion with endless PvE content then I guess you PvE'ers would be right that PvP doesn't have a place in D3 because that's the only case where it wouldn't work for PvP just like it didn't work in WoW. If that isn't the case though and D3 will ultimately have a complete game and storyline then PvP will be the ultimate end game goal as it was in D2 and it should be supported, and balanced for or they're just hindering their game.
0
There's the quote I was looking for that I didn't see. Still.. I'll believe it when I see it myself how they handle PvP. I watched Jay Wilsons interview and did he ever seem to dislike PvP in a big way. "over my dead body" was the quote that gets me from that interview which gives me little faith they will do PvP right.
0
Says who? Someone who loves PvE.. Go play WoW then. Lot's of cooperation for you there with regularly updated content. Unless the way Diablo is played is changed (beat game, beat an expantion or two) the PvE content will be limited and will be rinse and repeat just like it was in D2. Great the first couple times around, then you move onto bigger and better things about the game. Diablo will always be an end game PvP game to me, NOT a PvE game.
Also zomg, yes it's called PvM in Diablo yet people from Blizzard call it PvE in D3.
Also my point is that they should be setting D3 up to as close as balanced as they possibly can and they should be supporting it with ladders and rankings. I haven't seen any post from Blizzard (may have just missed it, link if there is one) saying they will support PvP passed a mere arena area. Also yeah my post is emotional. It bugs the crap out of me that Blizz isn't supporting a major part of their game the way they should be.
3
I mean lets be real about D2 for a second shall we? So you're level 90+ on almost every character.. You've already maxed out all the PvE content in the game 8x3 = 24+ times AT THE VERY LEAST! I played the game for 5-6 years and you can imagine how many times I beat the game over and over to get loot. So in terms of story line, original content, and really anything else to the game it's over with pretty quickly or at least Diablo 2 was. First run through is nice and takes a while, everything after that you're rushing a character through the game to get to a point where you can farm bosses for loot, to trade, then to PvP. Unless you play offline which takes a lot longer and can be done for a personal goal but that has again ZERO effect on PvP so it's irrelivent. Anywho the PvE aspect of this game has been covered in that Diablo 3 will most likely have a great story line (Played the Beta, It was awesome for me and I go into it) but once the game is beaten, (yes I know Blizz said I will die a lot and Inferno mode will be incredibly hard and most likely very fun but..) you just beat end game content over and over for more loot so you can..
TRADE! That's right. That's the other part of this fantastic game which was so incredibly fun! Blizzard has already managed to ruin that in Diablo 3 making items purchasable through the game (Yes I know websites would of been selling items anyways but doing this encourages every 12 year old with a credit card to have FAT LOOTS when all they did was drop 100 extra bucks on the game making them no better then anyone else which imo is complete bullshit to promote in a game BUT ANYWAYS!) You beat the hardest end game bosses for more loot! With this loot you trade it to get better loot! So you can kill bosses faster to get loot FASTER! So you can either end the game here for yourself and trade all day (not hating, tradings cool if you wanna trade all day but there's more to the game) or you can use that nicely aquired loot too..
KILL OTHER PLAYERS. Now onto the final stage of what Diablo 2 was. I played D2 for a long, long time. It the game I've returned too most in my entire life. Everytime I came back to the game it went exactly like how I wrote it down. PvE to get Items, then trade those items, so I can be good at PvP. To do anything otherwise seemed.. Pointless..? PvP was the ultimate end game in D2 if you really think about it.
I mean really, what else is there too the game? Kill stuff for rewards, then trade rewards for better stuff, then try and build the best character for PvP. Now you might say I have a flawed view of the game or I am just being biased towards PvE because I was an avid fan of PvP and still em but I will tell you, you're completely wrong if you think that.
I LOVE a good storyline. I LOVED D2's storyline. I watched every cinematic countless times because I just enjoyed the game so much in every aspect.I came back to the game not only because I loved it's PvP but because I loved playing Diablo the game so much. To not take advantage of what Diablo 2 had to offer was just silly, and still is silly in my eyes. There's three things you can do in D2. PvE for Loot. Trade Loot. PvP. That's it. You can choose to do 1/3 or 2/3 and limit the games full potential but I chose to do 3/3 and I enjoyed D2 more then any game in my entire life.
So when you have people spamming "WAHH WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ESPORT!" or "PVP WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE PVE CONTENT BECAUSE BLIZZARD WILL HAVE TO TRY AND BALANCE IT AND PUT RESOURCES ONTO SOMETHING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN!" I'd call you a selfish person then. If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential. I want D3 to be a kick ass storyline driven RPG as much as anyone does. In fact I am sick of all this PvP games I've been playing lately and I've been waiting for a great game with a great storyline to come out and I cannot wait for D3. Once I am done beating the game in 2-3 months I will want to move on from the RPG aspect and start PvPing again. Except I can't because it's not going to be supported what so ever..
The game will be completely imbalanced most likely for PvP. (I am aware D2 was imbalanced but D3 has the knowledge, the tools (the pve and pvp balancing tool which YES THEY DO HAVE!), and the time to make it balanced for the PvP community. Blizzard is a big boy company now since D2's release and they can handle this shit if they so choose too they just simply aren't which again, blows my mind) The game will have very little support for PvP compared to the PvE aspect and won't have any ranked system for players to go up against each other and see who's the best. To not promote or care about one of the three BIGGEST aspects let alone the ONLY three aspects of D2 makes me lose faith in Blizzard as a company and dims the light PC gaming as a whole as Blizzard has produced the best games I've ever played in the past, but it seems the future holds a different story for me and Blizzards relationship.
Supporting PvP supports the Diablo community. Supporting PvP as an eSport makes the game more popular then you can imagine. You want more PvE content? Well if the games an incredibly popular eSport it will give Blizz the money and motiviation to keep it comming with more great content for us. Supporting PvP just adds to the game. I think that's the biggest point here is that adding and supporting PvP just adds more content and things to do in the game which to my knowledge isn't a bad thing what so ever. I don't think I can stress that enough that it only adds to the greatness of what Diablo 3 can be.
So PvE'ers I am not sure what your problem is other then you want all the focus to be on PvE game for your own selfish needs because you've all made it so clear you don't dare about PvP in your game. PvP only makes Diablo 3 stronger in EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME and if you don't want to support that aspect guess what.. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO! Just go kill monsters and shit to trade over and over and let the community of PvP'ers be happy killing each other with that aquired loot.
PvE'ers by not supporting PvP you take away from the game, and most of all you take away from the community. Remember that when bashing PvP.
Blizzard by not supporting PvP the way it should be supported in Diablo 3 you take away from your game, and you let down the community. Remember that when neglecting a major aspect of what made your game popular and what kept people coming back to play it.