Gaining 15% dodge from another source (read: the passive) gives you 32% dodge.
Gaining 15% DR worth of armor gives you a final DR of 49%
Given an average of 1000 DPS incoming:
Base = 200 DPS dodged, 320 DPS Reduced = 480 DPS taken
Dodge = 320 DPS dodged, 272 DPS Reduced = 408 DPS taken (85% of base)
Armor = 200 DPS dodged, 392 DPS Reduced = 408 DPS taken (85% of base)
You don't prove anything with incorrect math.
Let r = resistance, A = armor, and v = monster level. Then
r = [A/50v]/[1 + A/50v]
r + rA/50v = A/50V
50vr + rA = A
50vr = A(1 - r)
50vr/(1-r) = A
r = .15
v = 61
A = 538 armor for 15% DR, or 538 dexterity.
For level 65, 573. Note these are minimum values; due to the way armor works, higher values are needed as your base is higher. For example, you would need 882 armor against a level 60 at 40% DR (which happens to be an even 2000 at 60) to achieve that 15% DR benefit.
The real question is if a proportional amount of a skills damage is the elemental damage on a weapon or does it convert a physical skill completely over to that element. Hopefully blizzards game guide thingy answers this and much more.
This has already been answered by a blue post that I cannot find.
Except for the fact that guardians path only gives you bonus dodge if you dual wield. If you (like i likely will) go with a 2H weapon, that does NOT give you dodge.
It's a good thing you told us that, or none of us might have known!
Also, Deleo's math is so very incorrect. Look up any number of tanking threads for WoW and look up how total dodge is determined.
Guardian's Path > Sixth Sense unless you expect to get higher than 50% crit chance. Additionally, the armor you receive has to result in at least 15 * (% of non-dodgeable damage) you expect to take, otherwise the dodge is worth more than armor.
Simplified, if you expect a 50% split of dodgeable and non-dodgeable incoming damage, then the armor needs to provide you at least 7.5% damage reduction. I don't have armor -> DR equation on hand.
The 12% extra damage is still there, since the slow comes from a Mantra of Conviction rune, essentially the DHs in your team are doing 27% extra damage to slowed targets. It's not like you're giving it up.
You're slowing them so that another person might do 15% more damage to some of those targets. The middleman is trying to synergize between classes before your own.
Or just get the 12% additional damage so that everyone does 12% more, instead of just one class with one specific passive.
Or you can just do 12% WD to all and call it a day.
Or you can have both on the things worth killing; that which will live long enough for you to get Crippling Wave up.
Again, the more fundamental issue is that the runes *only* modify dps and don't change how we use or look at the ability.
Rend Mutilate vs Lacerate.
70%/s base for 3 = 210%
90%/s Lacerate for 3 = 270%
70%/s Mutilate for 5 = 350%
At least those have slight differences, since one is better in an infinite rage situation and the other is better in a DPC. The difference between runes for Hungering just don't differ enough, which again leads me to believe that they will be changing the runes.
Overall it's kind of confusing. I'm not sure why you would take any one of these 3 runes over the other 2. Most skill runes are pretty easy to fit into a build, but Hungering Arrow is a bit more difficult.
Hungering is unique in this regard; all of its runes don't change its functionality much, only the damage. Additionally, they're typically limited in the number of hits, not area, resulting in something extremely comparable and not situational. Spray is the only 'typical' rune here and you'll note that it's the one rune without a number attached to it.
I'm honestly surprised not one of these runes says: piercing an enemy provides X additional hatred, piercing an enemy snares the enemy for 2 seconds, or removes the homing ability and increases the damage, etc. The only synergy with Hungering is possibly Night Stalker and Sharpshooter, where Puncturing, Shatter, and Spray are best for providing the higher number of hits.
Well, can test with rend possibly. I don't believe you got more damage per tick though. My immediate thought is how dots worked for wow, and possibly whatever that fire crit dot talent was called... /brain fart. Ill note that neither was perfect, and the first was for quality of life for keeping uptime only, not for increasing damage.
You could say the same about *many* runes for abilities that start more focused and end up spread out. Meteor shower is the first one to come to mind, along with ray of frost or one of fists of thunder. Cinder is in a similar place, where its benefit drops drastically in single target or higher aps situations. Not as drastic as what is possible for shatter, but still worth consideration.
I'm not sure overkill damage is enough of a reason to discount devouring being overpowered either. It just makes it stronger in groups or inferno where the hit may not still be enough, or where the % of overkill it is is low enough to be negligible.
Not #1 and not #2 IS a possibility, simply forcing it into and aoe/line situational ability. I see no reason for throwing that option away; its theoretical max damage stays the same at 233.
Edit: scratch that on devouring, your equation is wrong. When n = 1, that's one pierce, aka the 2nd hit should have the 70% bonus, which you've now removed.
Edit2: I now see what you were getting at with the 'consecutive' but I believe that to be a mistake in wording. Having only the 3rd and higher hits get the bonus is not very intuitive.
The larger issue I think is that spinning flame kick isn't balanced, not that wol is underwhelming. Ltk base is quite awful with the knockback and one of the highest damage for spirit spenders. With no unpredictable knockback, range, and more damage for the same cost, it's ridiculous.
@Chippydip Yah I see Shatter maintaining the homing ability, but not pierce. Of course, it could definitely go another way too.
Honestly, either version would be nice, but I would like the runes better if it didn't home, just to provide improved incentives for others, specifically Spray, which is stuck being the only aoe-only rune otherwise. Devouring appears to need a nerf though. Reducing it to 50% bonus damage would bring it to a reasonable 242.
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Gaining 15% dodge from another source (read: the passive) gives you 32% dodge.
Gaining 15% DR worth of armor gives you a final DR of 49%
Given an average of 1000 DPS incoming:
Base = 200 DPS dodged, 320 DPS Reduced = 480 DPS taken
Dodge = 320 DPS dodged, 272 DPS Reduced = 408 DPS taken (85% of base)
Armor = 200 DPS dodged, 392 DPS Reduced = 408 DPS taken (85% of base)
You don't prove anything with incorrect math.
r + rA/50v = A/50V
50vr + rA = A
50vr = A(1 - r)
50vr/(1-r) = A
r = .15
v = 61
A = 538 armor for 15% DR, or 538 dexterity.
For level 65, 573. Note these are minimum values; due to the way armor works, higher values are needed as your base is higher. For example, you would need 882 armor against a level 60 at 40% DR (which happens to be an even 2000 at 60) to achieve that 15% DR benefit.
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This has already been answered by a blue post that I cannot find.
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Bow to the giant number.
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Also, Deleo's math is so very incorrect. Look up any number of tanking threads for WoW and look up how total dodge is determined.
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Simplified, if you expect a 50% split of dodgeable and non-dodgeable incoming damage, then the armor needs to provide you at least 7.5% damage reduction. I don't have armor -> DR equation on hand.
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Or just get the 12% additional damage so that everyone does 12% more, instead of just one class with one specific passive.
Or you can just do 12% WD to all and call it a day.
Or you can have both on the things worth killing; that which will live long enough for you to get Crippling Wave up.
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Skip the middleman on the aura, gain survivability.
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Rend Mutilate vs Lacerate.
70%/s base for 3 = 210%
90%/s Lacerate for 3 = 270%
70%/s Mutilate for 5 = 350%
At least those have slight differences, since one is better in an infinite rage situation and the other is better in a DPC. The difference between runes for Hungering just don't differ enough, which again leads me to believe that they will be changing the runes.
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I'm honestly surprised not one of these runes says: piercing an enemy provides X additional hatred, piercing an enemy snares the enemy for 2 seconds, or removes the homing ability and increases the damage, etc. The only synergy with Hungering is possibly Night Stalker and Sharpshooter, where Puncturing, Shatter, and Spray are best for providing the higher number of hits.
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I'm not sure overkill damage is enough of a reason to discount devouring being overpowered either. It just makes it stronger in groups or inferno where the hit may not still be enough, or where the % of overkill it is is low enough to be negligible.
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Edit: scratch that on devouring, your equation is wrong. When n = 1, that's one pierce, aka the 2nd hit should have the 70% bonus, which you've now removed.
Edit2: I now see what you were getting at with the 'consecutive' but I believe that to be a mistake in wording. Having only the 3rd and higher hits get the bonus is not very intuitive.
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