If anything is going to kill replayability it is the fact that you will never need more than 1 of each class thanks to the ease of swapping skills, but then, if you were unable to do so, the community would be in uproar.
Even that, I don't think, is an issue, as you will still have variants created based on a specific band of skills or archtype which will see people re-roll (Melee wizard, no pet witchdoctor) along with trying classic modes like Ironman and Live off the Land.
I think replayability will be in a good place.
I kind of agree with you on that point as well; making a new "dedicated to this spec only" char was part of the fun of D2; especially after you figured out how to level quick.
I like how people think that we're gonna cruise past Inferno. I believe Blizzard stated(I'll have to look it up) that Hell in Diablo 3 is harder than Hell in Diablo 2. Granted, Hell in D2 wasn't really super difficult because you could outlevel the content. This isn't the case in D3, which should make Inferno(where the monsters outlevel you) much more difficult and unpredictable.
I hope your right and inferno really is harder than most people expect.
Your entire argument falls apart at point 3: "lack of new content"
I remember reading that they will be putting in new and better items over time. That give the economy a constant demand and low/new supply.
I haven't seen anything on this yet, and i really do hope this is true if that is the case. Only thing I've seen are posts stating the only patches will be for bugfixing, balancing, and pvp.
I didn't bother to read all the comments, but where is your link to Blizzard saying they will release no content patches? There was a video posted just yesterday with Alex Mayberry where he confirmed that there WILL be content patches. Also, I've seen numerous blue posts that say everything short of we will be doing many content patches. Jay Wilson himself has said that there will likely be content patches. So I don't know where you got that bit of information.
its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
Why? D2 had skill trees and manual stat distribution but there was only one "right" way to distribute these points. You think that's good replayability?
im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.
as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.
with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
I completely agree with this, especially on the whole "one and done" level. So they say 60 is the equivalent of a 85; which was pretty easy to do in d2. Having one char that you can spec out every single way you want in one nights time is really kind of depressing in a sense. I may be old school but making new characters with unique builds was part of the fun.
2. If blizzard isnt lying beyond understanding i dont see bots being able to do inferno or maybe even hell.
3.Could the people stating the market will get flooded in months please list time spent farming in d2 and how many of the best items they have found. If they cant than stop making assumptions based on nothing.
1-It doesn't delete your gear now, but with two "worlds" your character exsits in, in a new ladder environment those items couldn't and wouldn't make it to the ah.
2-That, i really hope holds true and it's not just a PR thing they keep saying.
3-I have farmed d2 quite a bit, and found most of the super unique items legit. However, I did also bot as well, and I got nearly every super unique with perfect stats at one point or another. As someone mentioned earlier, eventually items start to become worthless to you and you throw them to people in public games. I think at one point i had 3 mule accounts for my items, which goes without saying i only kept the top tier stuff.
what's a ladder reset? What's the point in playing a game, if all your progress eventually gets wiped? How would you feel about having all your WOW characters wiped? Or your bank account/house wiped and start from scratch?
The game is about treasure hunting. Whats the point of playing when you already have the best stuff? They can't make a new expansion every year for 10+ years, so they just reset the ladder.
Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.
Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.
Im no expert, but I imagine it would be pretty hard because you will need to use different tactics for different champoions. Plus you will need to pick up health globes at the right times. And there won't be a one button spam build for any of the classes.
True, but bots are rediculous nowadays. Back before when i was botting wow, they had bots that were able to join the random dungeon and fight the entire way throught. This included healing, dpsing, and tanking.
Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.
Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.
1-Yes, some people would get upset, but it wouldn't stop people from buying. As i mentioned, despite people knowing d2 ladders reset, they still spend good amounts of cash on d2 items. They know the items will only be relevent for a few months max, yet they still go ahead and purchase them.
2-Again, while rarity in d2 was pretty obvious on "exceptional" items, the userbase was much smaller, and it was much harder to trade in that game. Having a search for a rare item a few clicks away plus millions hammering away farming content are going to drastically change things.
3-I know everyone levels at different speeds, but i forsee inferno being beaten by people within a week. Again, this obviously doesn't account for everyone, but I would say within a month or two max a good chunk will have this done.
1) They were converted to softcore so they didn't lose thier items, there is no RMAH in hardcore, this point shouldn't be discussed anymore.
2) Again casuals make up a large % of players there won't be millions, it's no different than before. Finding end game items or perfect states will be just as difficult as D2.
3) This is were many people are divided but for the sake of the game I hope your wrong, I'm expecting clearing in a month farming in multiple months and this would be the elite not even the Diablo vet.
Well to be fair, while there isn't a RMAH in hc, that won't people from buying and selling via 3rd party sites and forums.
Quit a few things wrong with this as others have said but here are the main ones.
RMAH - If people spent real money on a item and it dissapeared people would flip ball sacks.
Rareity - Legit shit in D2 was hard as hell to find.
Replayability - The majority of people will never even touch inferno and the small percentage that does the majority of them will take months to complete it let alone farm it.
1-Yes, some people would get upset, but it wouldn't stop people from buying. As i mentioned, despite people knowing d2 ladders reset, they still spend good amounts of cash on d2 items. They know the items will only be relevent for a few months max, yet they still go ahead and purchase them.
2-Again, while rarity in d2 was pretty obvious on "exceptional" items, the userbase was much smaller, and it was much harder to trade in that game. Having a search for a rare item a few clicks away plus millions hammering away farming content are going to drastically change things.
3-I know everyone levels at different speeds, but i forsee inferno being beaten by people within a week. Again, this obviously doesn't account for everyone, but I would say within a month or two max a good chunk will have this done.
Without reliable drop % information and without information regarding the % of the player base that will play to Inferno, the numbers that will play beyond 6 months and (on top of that) the % of those that will actually use the RMAH, this is all conjecture and speculation.
As much as it is important to speculate and hypothesise, getting all bent out of shape over something that may realistically never be an issue (or one that if it does occur then Blizz may be able to remedy) just seems a whole waste of time, effort and concern
I'm not bent, im just theorizing what will happen. It's not going to stop me from playing the game.
Without duping/bots in Diablo 2... finding most of the best items in the game took a very, very long time. You could farm things like Shako, Stormshield, Viperskin, etc. pretty easy. But if you wanted something like Crown of Ages it would take a very, very long time... even if you had good MF gear.
Then we get into the idea of how easy it became to farm in Diablo 2. But the reason it became so easy was everyone had great gear because of the bots/duping.
I think they've thought this through. It's going to be damn hard to find the "best items", especially when they want to make rares have more potential... and even if the economy does start to get bogged down, they can adjust drop rates/add new items to the game.
This may be true, and in a perfect world there would not be bots or farmers -- however this isn't the case. These things will exist and water down the economy.
I sometimes ask myself if people even remember the old days of Diablo 2. The first ladder reset was on July 7 2004, 3 years after LoD came out. There are many reasons why you won't have a ladder reset early after a finished product (early can even mean a year).
A big point is that for a lot of people one year is really much. I think you underestimate the number of casual players, playing maybe 2 or 3 times a week but still playing on after normal. For these people a new game like Diablo 3 really takes a while to fully "complete" it (meaning playing several characters on max level and equip a few of them).
Your example of WoW and BoP/BoE items really bugs me. Items in WoW are much, much, much easier to get. Even the best items in the highest tier raid only need a few weeks before they are aquired (granted, a full bis set takes more than that, but the possibility of getting bis items is still much higher). In Diablo you can spend months before getting a really perfect item, especially since the best of the best items are non-crafted rare drops. Of course you can buy items to clear inferno, but these are still not the best items you can have for your character, thus real perfectionists will need a much longer time to gear their character out. There is a well known D2 trade forum with a hall of fame. The chars there are geared out over several ladder seasons (some even 1-2 years), something you could not establish in only a few months.
All in all I think you are really exaggerating. New games have a much higher replayability than games you played already for several years, like D2. And we should not forget that a new addon only needs 1-1,5 years until it gets released.
D2/D3 items might be much more harder to get now, but instead of only having saying 50k per realm fighitng for items now (possibly 200k in diablos peak per realm? Idk), you will have literally millions doing it now. It's just a matter quantity getting those items. As a whole, you yourself might not be very lucky and could spend days farming an item, but that doesnt mean the rest of the region is the same. Eventually, with bots as well as random drops, you will see those "rare" items become pretty abundant on the ah in a few months.
silly ranting rabble of foretold assumed 100% future telling
-Kallell
Ladder only applied to hardcore, not softcore, nothing changed there, there is no RMAH in hardcore....
Blizzard "claims" hardcore won't likely beat inferno... even if that is remotely true the economy will be just fine considering everyone will be losing their items.
You seem to be basing all your assumptions on previous markets that have been in standing for 8+ years. Don't think that will apply in D3 "classic".
Gold buying has little relevance to this series compared to WoW, if there is a large influx of gold the ratio to convert gold to money would simply be applied, it's called an exchange rate.
EDIT: There were resets in D2 because everyone duped items / Bots. Until bots can handle the content and dupes become apparent there is no need for these resets. It's not like you can tele to end boss games and spam one spell... bots aren't going to be farming shit for awhile.
It was a suggestion, not saying they have to do it. Relax before you jump off the deep end. While i think that inferno on HC will be hard, im pretty sure that twitter quote was more of a PR thing than the actual case. We will see though.
You'll see more expansion content with D3 than you did with D2.
The RMAH gives Blizzard a defined source of revenue to fun continued development work on addition content. A ladder system or reset isn't needed.
That may be true, but margins for blizzard are going to grow smaller and smaller, and eventually become less and less of those transactions once people start to stop trying to sell via the AH since profits are so minute.
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I kind of agree with you on that point as well; making a new "dedicated to this spec only" char was part of the fun of D2; especially after you figured out how to level quick.
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I hope your right and inferno really is harder than most people expect.
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I haven't seen anything on this yet, and i really do hope this is true if that is the case. Only thing I've seen are posts stating the only patches will be for bugfixing, balancing, and pvp.
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http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/exclusive-new-info-on-pvp-beta-content-and-d3-patches
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1-It doesn't delete your gear now, but with two "worlds" your character exsits in, in a new ladder environment those items couldn't and wouldn't make it to the ah.
2-That, i really hope holds true and it's not just a PR thing they keep saying.
3-I have farmed d2 quite a bit, and found most of the super unique items legit. However, I did also bot as well, and I got nearly every super unique with perfect stats at one point or another. As someone mentioned earlier, eventually items start to become worthless to you and you throw them to people in public games. I think at one point i had 3 mule accounts for my items, which goes without saying i only kept the top tier stuff.
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True, but bots are rediculous nowadays. Back before when i was botting wow, they had bots that were able to join the random dungeon and fight the entire way throught. This included healing, dpsing, and tanking.
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Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.
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Well to be fair, while there isn't a RMAH in hc, that won't people from buying and selling via 3rd party sites and forums.
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1-Yes, some people would get upset, but it wouldn't stop people from buying. As i mentioned, despite people knowing d2 ladders reset, they still spend good amounts of cash on d2 items. They know the items will only be relevent for a few months max, yet they still go ahead and purchase them.
2-Again, while rarity in d2 was pretty obvious on "exceptional" items, the userbase was much smaller, and it was much harder to trade in that game. Having a search for a rare item a few clicks away plus millions hammering away farming content are going to drastically change things.
3-I know everyone levels at different speeds, but i forsee inferno being beaten by people within a week. Again, this obviously doesn't account for everyone, but I would say within a month or two max a good chunk will have this done.
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I'm not bent, im just theorizing what will happen. It's not going to stop me from playing the game.
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This may be true, and in a perfect world there would not be bots or farmers -- however this isn't the case. These things will exist and water down the economy.
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D2/D3 items might be much more harder to get now, but instead of only having saying 50k per realm fighitng for items now (possibly 200k in diablos peak per realm? Idk), you will have literally millions doing it now. It's just a matter quantity getting those items. As a whole, you yourself might not be very lucky and could spend days farming an item, but that doesnt mean the rest of the region is the same. Eventually, with bots as well as random drops, you will see those "rare" items become pretty abundant on the ah in a few months.
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It was a suggestion, not saying they have to do it. Relax before you jump off the deep end. While i think that inferno on HC will be hard, im pretty sure that twitter quote was more of a PR thing than the actual case. We will see though.
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That may be true, but margins for blizzard are going to grow smaller and smaller, and eventually become less and less of those transactions once people start to stop trying to sell via the AH since profits are so minute.