2. If blizzard isnt lying beyond understanding i dont see bots being able to do inferno or maybe even hell.
3.Could the people stating the market will get flooded in months please list time spent farming in d2 and how many of the best items they have found. If they cant than stop making assumptions based on nothing.
1-It doesn't delete your gear now, but with two "worlds" your character exsits in, in a new ladder environment those items couldn't and wouldn't make it to the ah.
2-That, i really hope holds true and it's not just a PR thing they keep saying.
3-I have farmed d2 quite a bit, and found most of the super unique items legit. However, I did also bot as well, and I got nearly every super unique with perfect stats at one point or another. As someone mentioned earlier, eventually items start to become worthless to you and you throw them to people in public games. I think at one point i had 3 mule accounts for my items, which goes without saying i only kept the top tier stuff.
The replayability, for me at least, will come from playing Inferno (if it actually turns out to be everything the devs promised), and trying out all 5 classes (I find them all interesting), and when PvP launches (hopefully in early August) I'll play PvP until I'm bored
Almost forgot about hardcore, when everything's said and done I might try it for the extra "rush". It's like a personall ladder reset (if you screw up, you have to start over).
its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
If your economy analysis includes the words 'might' or 'probably', you're doing it wrong.
If any economist isn't using the words "might" and "probably", they are lying to you.
An actual economist has data to base future predictions from.
Nobody has such data for D3 .
Hence using the word probably would be very wise? No?
Even with data, economics is in no way a certainty. There are way too many factors, many very much unpredictable to make any solid factual statements.
For instance the US gives companies a loan to manufacture and solar panels.
Good idea at the time.
China then retaliates by giving their companies a GRANT for 10 times that amount to manufacture solar panels.
US companies obviously can't compete and fail.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
Please don't bring up that whole this isn't Dibalo 2.5 discussion which has plenty other threads (54345345645 to be exact) bashing this silly concept, off topic move on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
Why? D2 had skill trees and manual stat distribution but there was only one "right" way to distribute these points. You think that's good replayability?
im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.
as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.
with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.
as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.
with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
You do know there is end game gear that adds to certain abilities... imagine the possibilities. The shift from remaking 5 billion characters changed to gear finding, oh and leveling 3 different sorcs to level 80 took a few hours so don't use that as an example of long term solution. That's the essential difference between D2 & D3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
Why? D2 had skill trees and manual stat distribution but there was only one "right" way to distribute these points. You think that's good replayability?
im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.
as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.
with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
I completely agree with this, especially on the whole "one and done" level. So they say 60 is the equivalent of a 85; which was pretty easy to do in d2. Having one char that you can spec out every single way you want in one nights time is really kind of depressing in a sense. I may be old school but making new characters with unique builds was part of the fun.
You shouldn't worry about that , there are many changes that will come to diablo 3 after release. I think blizzard will see how it goes and then decide what to add next (expansions , pvp arenas , more modes) I just think that the engine has a great potential , I hope they wont let it go to waste (like Hon for ex.) .
1 Lack of ladder Resets.
- You do realize that D2 was chugging along for about 3+ years before the concept of Ladders came into play correct? The first ladder reset was Oct 2003. Diablo 2 was released June 2000. Part of the main reason was because the Blizzard that developed Diablo 2 and LOD were no longer intact. Its the whole Blizzard North and Blizzard East thing. Bottonline, no true detailed code changes could be done because the original team was no more. So the problem of item duping and balancing and future support of D2 was all done via home grown solutions. Moreover this was by then at least a 3-4 year old game, in game years it was ancient.
- It has been over 12 years since then. Blizzard now has a lot more manpower and expertise and $$$$ to prevent things like item duping. Not to mention every account is tied to a Blizzard account which makes banning very much easier. And the added RMAH is even more incentive to put contingencies in place, non of which will be shared with us until it needs to be.
- Blizzard is well aware of all the issues with Diablo 2. If you don't think they have spent a huge bunch of money researching this and preventing duping and such issues from occuring, I think you're very deluded.
- Will there still be botting or duping etc etc etc. Very likely, you can't ever prevent it 100% but the minute it becomes "popular", it will be banned. And as I said, the company knows with RMAH they have to have contingencies in place for any number of situations or face lawsuits.
2. RMAH.
- Please don't hate the RMAH. You might not like it but many many of us do want it in the game. And many of us see it as a good way for Blizzard to protect its users from fraud.
- Your main concern here is that in 1 year, uber item #1 which drops only once for every million games will now have dropped 100,000 times so in theory 100,000 such items exist. its a GLUT!
- First oof let's have the game go live first. This is an economy problem which might/might not be an issue and we will need to see what happens. And you can and will need to break items down for components, this is a very new game system.
3- Lack of new content.
- Please reference the URL that you read this from. Otherwise this is rumor only. I think I follow D3 pretty closely and don't recall Blizzard ever saying there would be no new content.
- Also let's be clear on new content. If you want new areas, new mobs, new levels, you're most probably not going to get it. This is not a monthly payment game, nor does it have a cash shop. This is an online only solo/co-op game. Pay for it once and play for a long time to come. Expect to get what you pay for.
But chances of more gems being added, of more items or more item affixes, of the Mystic being re-added, those are fully possible. Also a lot of us are sure there will be at least 2 expansions. The only thing preventing this is if the game does not sell well (which I doubt will happen). After that... we'll see.
Your Concerns:
1 The whole reason you could get a full Hammerdin in the best equipment off ebay was becuase almost all those items were dupped. In reality, these items are very hard to find. I myslef have played D2 many many times over the years and only ever found 2 Stones of Jordans. So people who used it as the currency of trading were mostly all using dups. Which we have already said should not happen or will be very much harder in D3.
2 No racing, no "be the best" experiences. Uhhhh.. sorry I never did this and so cannot comment also does not sound like my method of play. Additionally, in D2 items could only be sold for gold. In D3 you can and need to break them down for higher level crafting components. Yes this includes breaking down Legendaries for higher level crafting items. How it will all work out? Only time will tell so please have a little faith.
3 You would not sell any and everything just for the heck of it, although each account will have X number of free transactions a week so only farmers (chinese or otherwise) would run into problems with this limit. You would rather buy a better item or break down your current item for components rather than pay the listing fee. This is a good thing. This means only the really valuable items or components will be on sale on the AH. The economy will work itself out and decide.
And not to sound like a broken record but people constantly talk about the perfect gear required for certain builds. Those items did NOT drop very often. Again many people who got those items and consistently reached level 90+ were all using bots. Which should now be more difficult.
Bots. With a Blizzard account being required, you now need a separate account for each game. In D2 you could use 1 game code, create 100's of users names and create 100's of games all with 1 game code. No Longer. So those farmers will need to purchase 100's of legitimate D3 games and create legitimate bliizard accounts to do this. Which is no different than if 100's of persons buying a copy of D3 and playing hours on end.
I don't see an issue with the longevity and replayability of Diablo3 for myself and a great portion of the gaming population. But if you are expecting a game to last another 10 years based on your $60 investment... that might be pushing it a bit. Diablo 2 (and WOW) are perhaps the only games that I can think of that I played over and over again through the years. But then I'm always after the new shiny.
I'm not totally dismissing your concerns. It might be that a ladder reset might be needed in the future, but until we find such a need, I think this is very very pre-mature. Also I think there are better ways to fix the issues than with a ladder reset which was in itself a stop gap solution.
@OP TL;DR, but I will eventually and then respond again.
My initial 2 cents @ topic title: It is inevitable that an economy that never "resets" or never has a new better set of gear at some point will eventually dwindle to everyone has everything and it's ALL dirt cheap.
However, why would Blizzard create this amazing game, put in RMAH to fuel revenue beyond just initial game sales, and not have some plan of some kind to subvert this disaster and perpetuate it with some kind of "reset/re-invigoration"? I'm guessing this stroke of genius will not be revealed until the economy has actually become saturated and it's time to take action on it. Like say... Hey everyone! It's Diablo 3: LoD Expansion Pack time!
@OP TL;DR, but I will eventually and then respond again.
My initial 2 cents @ topic title: It is inevitable that an economy that never "resets" or never has a new better set of gear at some point will eventually dwindle to everyone has everything and it's ALL dirt cheap.
However, why would Blizzard create this amazing game, put in RMAH to fuel revenue beyond just initial game sales, and not have some plan of some kind to subvert this disaster and perpetuate it with some kind of "reset/re-invigoration"? I'm guessing this stroke of genius will not be revealed until the economy has actually become saturated and it's time to take action on it. Like say... Hey everyone! It's Diablo 3: LoD Expansion Pack time!
I heard that they were going to slowly unlock items month after month, to prevent them from being found all at the start. I don't know if they really will do that, and if so how many items/how many updates they will make.
@OP TL;DR, but I will eventually and then respond again.
My initial 2 cents @ topic title: It is inevitable that an economy that never "resets" or never has a new better set of gear at some point will eventually dwindle to everyone has everything and it's ALL dirt cheap.
However, why would Blizzard create this amazing game, put in RMAH to fuel revenue beyond just initial game sales, and not have some plan of some kind to subvert this disaster and perpetuate it with some kind of "reset/re-invigoration"? I'm guessing this stroke of genius will not be revealed until the economy has actually become saturated and it's time to take action on it. Like say... Hey everyone! It's Diablo 3: LoD Expansion Pack time!
I heard that they were going to slowly unlock items month after month, to prevent them from being found all at the start. I don't know if they really will do that, and if so how many items/how many updates they will make.
Yes, I'm actually expecting some clever solution to this problem that they might not even have finalized yet. I think they're going to analyze the RMAH like mad scientists to really refine their next decisions. I think they have some ideas that no one has tried yet and they will come out with them when it's time. Right now, they need to launch the game, fix any major bugs in the early life of the game, and then work out the details on sustaining an active economy after that. I think it would be foolish for them to publicly announce what these plans are before it's time. For one thing, that's showing their hand to competitors. And two, it's putting them in a difficult position should they decide to change the plan later.
wow took me some time to read all of this. I think what hey hope is that we WONT be able to clear inferno now in diablo 2 content was easy everyone could of done it and then u can farm a bit and it gets boring after a while. In D3 they think that we simply wont clear it even with all the farmed gear etc. I personaly wouldnt like to have my caracter reseted and not be able to play with friends or to be forced to play again from scrach. Ofc explansion or expansions should come in like 2 years time.
Again how hard is inferno there was a tread here about them asking on twitter jay about did any1 clear inferno in testing team. He said no.
They did mention that they tuned bosses that u can kill em in resonable amount of time not more then 20 trys (if i recall well) and then that they are gona DUBLE the dificility of inferno when game is relised.
So no1 did finish it from all the testers that tryed it and still its gona be 2x as hard when it comes out. Idk if they all the ppl in team got some cind of hendikep or w/e but still that shouldnt make us this confident that its gona be eazy/fast.
With this they clear allmost all issues u wont see barb charging in inferno with "imba" gear he got of ah since he is gona die that they promised us.
But my fear for a year now is that content on lvl 60 is gona be dull hope it wont be hope they prove us wrong
The RMAH gives Blizzard a defined source of revenue to fun continued development work on addition content. A ladder system or reset isn't needed.
Correction:
WoW gave Blizzard a "defined" source of revenue to fund development on Diablo 3, and probably will continue to do so for D3 expansions. If Blizzard had your point of view, they wouldn't have bothered planning to make two more SC2 expansions.
ladder resets and the need the have better items for PvP kept D2 going for so long
In diablo 3:
- You never have to worry about been smashed by stronger players - no need to improve
- Once you get some casual gear strong enough to solo inferno you are done - no need for better items
- Been a decent player or having very good items is of no significance, no one will know you ever existed.
Someone get this man a hooker. Good work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
1-It doesn't delete your gear now, but with two "worlds" your character exsits in, in a new ladder environment those items couldn't and wouldn't make it to the ah.
2-That, i really hope holds true and it's not just a PR thing they keep saying.
3-I have farmed d2 quite a bit, and found most of the super unique items legit. However, I did also bot as well, and I got nearly every super unique with perfect stats at one point or another. As someone mentioned earlier, eventually items start to become worthless to you and you throw them to people in public games. I think at one point i had 3 mule accounts for my items, which goes without saying i only kept the top tier stuff.
Almost forgot about hardcore, when everything's said and done I might try it for the extra "rush". It's like a personall ladder reset (if you screw up, you have to start over).
Even with data, economics is in no way a certainty. There are way too many factors, many very much unpredictable to make any solid factual statements.
For instance the US gives companies a loan to manufacture and solar panels.
Good idea at the time.
China then retaliates by giving their companies a GRANT for 10 times that amount to manufacture solar panels.
US companies obviously can't compete and fail.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Please don't bring up that whole this isn't Dibalo 2.5 discussion which has plenty other threads (54345345645 to be exact) bashing this silly concept, off topic move on.
im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.
as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.
with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
You do know there is end game gear that adds to certain abilities... imagine the possibilities. The shift from remaking 5 billion characters changed to gear finding, oh and leveling 3 different sorcs to level 80 took a few hours so don't use that as an example of long term solution. That's the essential difference between D2 & D3.
- You do realize that D2 was chugging along for about 3+ years before the concept of Ladders came into play correct? The first ladder reset was Oct 2003. Diablo 2 was released June 2000. Part of the main reason was because the Blizzard that developed Diablo 2 and LOD were no longer intact. Its the whole Blizzard North and Blizzard East thing. Bottonline, no true detailed code changes could be done because the original team was no more. So the problem of item duping and balancing and future support of D2 was all done via home grown solutions. Moreover this was by then at least a 3-4 year old game, in game years it was ancient.
- It has been over 12 years since then. Blizzard now has a lot more manpower and expertise and $$$$ to prevent things like item duping. Not to mention every account is tied to a Blizzard account which makes banning very much easier. And the added RMAH is even more incentive to put contingencies in place, non of which will be shared with us until it needs to be.
- Blizzard is well aware of all the issues with Diablo 2. If you don't think they have spent a huge bunch of money researching this and preventing duping and such issues from occuring, I think you're very deluded.
- Will there still be botting or duping etc etc etc. Very likely, you can't ever prevent it 100% but the minute it becomes "popular", it will be banned. And as I said, the company knows with RMAH they have to have contingencies in place for any number of situations or face lawsuits.
2. RMAH.
- Please don't hate the RMAH. You might not like it but many many of us do want it in the game. And many of us see it as a good way for Blizzard to protect its users from fraud.
- Your main concern here is that in 1 year, uber item #1 which drops only once for every million games will now have dropped 100,000 times so in theory 100,000 such items exist. its a GLUT!
- First oof let's have the game go live first. This is an economy problem which might/might not be an issue and we will need to see what happens. And you can and will need to break items down for components, this is a very new game system.
3- Lack of new content.
- Please reference the URL that you read this from. Otherwise this is rumor only. I think I follow D3 pretty closely and don't recall Blizzard ever saying there would be no new content.
- Also let's be clear on new content. If you want new areas, new mobs, new levels, you're most probably not going to get it. This is not a monthly payment game, nor does it have a cash shop. This is an online only solo/co-op game. Pay for it once and play for a long time to come. Expect to get what you pay for.
But chances of more gems being added, of more items or more item affixes, of the Mystic being re-added, those are fully possible. Also a lot of us are sure there will be at least 2 expansions. The only thing preventing this is if the game does not sell well (which I doubt will happen). After that... we'll see.
Your Concerns:
1 The whole reason you could get a full Hammerdin in the best equipment off ebay was becuase almost all those items were dupped. In reality, these items are very hard to find. I myslef have played D2 many many times over the years and only ever found 2 Stones of Jordans. So people who used it as the currency of trading were mostly all using dups. Which we have already said should not happen or will be very much harder in D3.
2 No racing, no "be the best" experiences. Uhhhh.. sorry I never did this and so cannot comment also does not sound like my method of play. Additionally, in D2 items could only be sold for gold. In D3 you can and need to break them down for higher level crafting components. Yes this includes breaking down Legendaries for higher level crafting items. How it will all work out? Only time will tell so please have a little faith.
3 You would not sell any and everything just for the heck of it, although each account will have X number of free transactions a week so only farmers (chinese or otherwise) would run into problems with this limit. You would rather buy a better item or break down your current item for components rather than pay the listing fee. This is a good thing. This means only the really valuable items or components will be on sale on the AH. The economy will work itself out and decide.
And not to sound like a broken record but people constantly talk about the perfect gear required for certain builds. Those items did NOT drop very often. Again many people who got those items and consistently reached level 90+ were all using bots. Which should now be more difficult.
Bots. With a Blizzard account being required, you now need a separate account for each game. In D2 you could use 1 game code, create 100's of users names and create 100's of games all with 1 game code. No Longer. So those farmers will need to purchase 100's of legitimate D3 games and create legitimate bliizard accounts to do this. Which is no different than if 100's of persons buying a copy of D3 and playing hours on end.
I don't see an issue with the longevity and replayability of Diablo3 for myself and a great portion of the gaming population. But if you are expecting a game to last another 10 years based on your $60 investment... that might be pushing it a bit. Diablo 2 (and WOW) are perhaps the only games that I can think of that I played over and over again through the years. But then I'm always after the new shiny.
I'm not totally dismissing your concerns. It might be that a ladder reset might be needed in the future, but until we find such a need, I think this is very very pre-mature. Also I think there are better ways to fix the issues than with a ladder reset which was in itself a stop gap solution.
that's like asking for world peace and no more hunger....
My initial 2 cents @ topic title: It is inevitable that an economy that never "resets" or never has a new better set of gear at some point will eventually dwindle to everyone has everything and it's ALL dirt cheap.
However, why would Blizzard create this amazing game, put in RMAH to fuel revenue beyond just initial game sales, and not have some plan of some kind to subvert this disaster and perpetuate it with some kind of "reset/re-invigoration"? I'm guessing this stroke of genius will not be revealed until the economy has actually become saturated and it's time to take action on it. Like say... Hey everyone! It's Diablo 3: LoD Expansion Pack time!
Signature by Aranoch
I heard that they were going to slowly unlock items month after month, to prevent them from being found all at the start. I don't know if they really will do that, and if so how many items/how many updates they will make.
Yes, I'm actually expecting some clever solution to this problem that they might not even have finalized yet. I think they're going to analyze the RMAH like mad scientists to really refine their next decisions. I think they have some ideas that no one has tried yet and they will come out with them when it's time. Right now, they need to launch the game, fix any major bugs in the early life of the game, and then work out the details on sustaining an active economy after that. I think it would be foolish for them to publicly announce what these plans are before it's time. For one thing, that's showing their hand to competitors. And two, it's putting them in a difficult position should they decide to change the plan later.
Signature by Aranoch
Again how hard is inferno there was a tread here about them asking on twitter jay about did any1 clear inferno in testing team. He said no.
They did mention that they tuned bosses that u can kill em in resonable amount of time not more then 20 trys (if i recall well) and then that they are gona DUBLE the dificility of inferno when game is relised.
So no1 did finish it from all the testers that tryed it and still its gona be 2x as hard when it comes out. Idk if they all the ppl in team got some cind of hendikep or w/e but still that shouldnt make us this confident that its gona be eazy/fast.
With this they clear allmost all issues u wont see barb charging in inferno with "imba" gear he got of ah since he is gona die that they promised us.
But my fear for a year now is that content on lvl 60 is gona be dull hope it wont be hope they prove us wrong
or get 10 expos so fast that we wont notice
Correction:
WoW gave Blizzard a "defined" source of revenue to fund development on Diablo 3, and probably will continue to do so for D3 expansions. If Blizzard had your point of view, they wouldn't have bothered planning to make two more SC2 expansions.
You're missing the point he's making completely.
Someone get this man a hooker. Good work.
read the suggestions before you just respond to the OP all willy-nilly
You can create a ladder with only characters that have access to its own gold-only AH (just like HC have their own gold-only w/ no RMAH).
So it really will never happen they wont make again two divided player base