DiabloFans

Could it be that Firebird's will be useful as a standalone set?!??

Umm .. the video is titled 'why 10:1 is ideal'. And the video explains why it's ideal. And the video also states multiple cases where it's not. So no, I'm not ignoring anything.

Quote from Euphytose»

These "ratios" always make me laugh. Especially crit. You want to have as much as possible, there's no ratio. You never have "too much" of one or the other. When a hit isn't a crit, you might as well deal zero damage. Even if you have 60% crit chance and only have 350% crit damage, it still means that you will deal increased damage most of the time. If you had 50% crit chance and 500% crit damage (the ideal "ratio") you would deal more damage, less often. And the examples I've used are useless, just get 10% 100%, 6% 50%, etc... Stop worrying about pointless things.

This "keith something or other" guy sounds like a gentleman and a scholar.

You don't really address the answer of "but why is it 10:1? Why not 9:1, or 11:1?"

Well, if you reeeeally want to know, here is way too much explanation.

Step 1: no calculus, where we derive this equation for toughness: T(A,R) = t * (3500+A)/3500 * (350+R)/350

To start with, you need the equations for how much damage reduction armor and magic resist give you.

For armor, you get damage reduction = (your armor) / (50*enemyLevel + your armor) . There's no "reason" for that - it is just how blizzard defined armor to work. Plugging in some numbers (assuming monsters hitting you are all level 70), 0 armor would give (0)/(50*70+0) = 0% damage reduction, 3500 armor would give (3500)/(50*70+3500) = 50% and 7000 armor would give (7000)/(50*70)+7000) = 66% damage reduction.

Resist is defined by Blizz to work very similar, the only difference is the number in the denominator goes from 50 to just being 5 (spoiler alert: 10:1 ratio detected!). Damage reduction from resist is (your resist)/(5*enemyLevel+your resist). So 350 resist for example would give 350/(5*70+350) = 50% damage reduction.

Now, we need an equation for toughness. How does 75% damage reduction translate into toughness? The answer is you find out how much damage enemies have to deal to you do "really" do 1 point of damage, and you multiply your toughness by whatever that is.

1 real damage = x incoming damage * (100%damage - y% your damage reduction)

1/(1-y) = x

As an example, if y (damage reduction) is 75%, then x (toughness multiplier from that reduction) is = 1/(1-.75) = 1/.25 = 4

So, toughness is equal to whatever your base toughness was times your multiple from damage reduction from armor times your multiplier from damage reduction from resist.

Toughness = baseToughess * 1/(1-DR from armor) * 1/(1-DR from resist)
(baseToughness is however much toughness you'd have with 0 armor and resist, which is influenced by things like your life)

Now take that and make it look uglier by substituting in the equations from what DR from armor and DR from resist actually are. Also I'm just going to drop monster level as a variable and set it to 70 to make life easier for people who like numbers instead of having letters float around.

Toughness = baseToughess * 1/(1-DR from armor) * 1/(1-DR from resist)
DR from armor = (your armor) / (50*enemyLevel + your armor) = A/(3500+A) [a = armor]
DR from resist = (your resist) / (5*enemyLevel + your resist) = R/(350+R) [R = resist]

becomes

Toughness = baseToughess * 1/(1-A/(3500+A)) * 1/(1-R/(350+R))

I'm going to clean this up a bit by calling Toughness T(A,R) and base toughness t

T(A,R) = t * 1/(1-A/(3500+A)) * 1/(1-R/(350+R))

Can you simplify algebra? I hope so!

make some common denominators
T(A,R) = t * 1/((3500+A)/(3500+A)-A/(3500+A)) * 1/((350+R)/(350+R)-R/(350+R))
subtract
T(A,R) = t * 1/((3500)/(3500+A)) * 1/((350)/(350+R))
pull the double division out into the numerator (aka multiply numerator and denominator by the denominator of the denominator)

T(A,R) = t * (3500+A)/3500 * (350+R)/350

Basically, resist functions the exact same way as armor, only it is 10x as effective.



step 2a: what is the constraint?

Obviously, to maximize that equation for toughness the answer is you want infinite armor and infinite resist. GG EZ who needs maths.

Coming up with a reasonable statement of constraint that accurately reflects the reality of the decisions you face in game is tricky.

The problem falls apart here because there is no smooth trade off of exchanging res for armor at such and such a rate. There's a tradeoff at one rate for amulet, pants, helm and chest, another rate for other item slots, another rate based on what you get from gemming and then there's paragon points.

Ideally, for this to be a nice clean problem we'd want to be able to say "okay, you have $X to spend on armor and resist, each point of resist costs $10, each point of armor costs $1 - that's the constraint" - but you really just can't do that here.

The "10:1" golden ratio answer actually is only true in that situation where resist is 10 bucks and armor is 1 buck. If you are getting an "exchange rate" shittier than than (for example, losing 100 resist on pants to gain 595 armor) moving closer to the 10:1 ratio might be a bad idea.

The 10:1 rule for crit and crit damage was arelevant because it reflected a very real in game situation, players face with the choice of 1% crit damage or 0.1% crit chance at that 10:1 price cost via paragon points. Also, although not quite right, there is often a tradeoff faced of 6% crit on rings or 50% critD, which is pretty close to the right tradeoff for the 10:1 ratio rule to be an effective guideline. Since these sorts of situations don't really exist for armor VS resist, the rule isn't...invalid... but it is just not really applicable.

Now... all that said, I'm going to just give up and use this unrealistic constraint to solve the problem

$10*each point of resist + $1*each point of armor = $budget
10R + A = C


step 2: calculus, where we maximize that equation


Alright, I'm going to make the equation look a bit different saying

tt = t / 350 / 3500

So now I'm hiding some stuff I don't care about inside tt

T(A,R) = tt * (3500+A) * (350+R)

Now I'll expand the terms out

T(A,R) = tt * (3500*350 + 3500*R + 350*A + A*R)

I don't really feel like explaining multivariable calculus, here is a good video that covers this problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHu4pJnYbYs

We basically just need to follow the same process but with our functions instead of the ones they used in the example.

Restating the constraint (10R + A = C) as a function:

C(A,R) = 10R + A

The derivative of T(A,R) based on A (holding R constant), aka the partial derivative with respect to A, aka d/dA

d/dA T(A,R) = tt * (0 + 0 + 350 + R)

Same thing, but for R

d/dR T(A,R) = tt * (0 + 3500 + 0 + A)

And also, the partial derivatives of our constraint function:

d/dA C(A,R) = 1

d/dR C(A,R) = 10

Now plus all of these partial derivatives into the system of equations derived in the linked youtube video to get 3 equations:

tt(350+R) - u = 0
tt(3500+A) - 10u = 0
10R+A-C = 0

Just gotta solve that system, you do like solving systems of equations, right?

combine first two equations to eliminate u
tt(3500+A) - 10tt(350+R) = 0
10R + A - C = 0

divide out the tt from first equation
(3500+A) - 10(350+R) = 0
10R + A - C = 0

simplify first equation
A - 10R = 0
10R + A - C = 0

equate the two equations
A - 10R = 10R + A - C

we now have R solved in terms of C
20R = C

R = C/20

A - 10R = 0

substitude in our solution for R in terms of C
A - 10/20C = 0

we now have A solved in terms of C
C = 2A

put C=C and C=2A and C=20R, the solutions we found for A and R in terms of C
2A = 20R

A = 10R

Your armor should be 10x your resist, there it is. It came out as a consequence of math following from how resist is 10x as effective (this comes from how blizzard defined armor and resist, culminating in a toughness function) but also "costs" 10x as much (from our constraint). With a different constraint (say 595R + 100A = C, which is based on the itemization budget on chests), the answer would have been different.

Quote from elektrar»

Actually, you need 65+% CDR to have permanent horse with swiftmount. This is the fastest T10 build so far I have tested, but I would omit in-geom, it is not important and it makes you hurry like crazy not picking up anything on the ground, once you start picking-up, you lose it quickly and mortal-drama kllls mobs faster and more. In my opinion there is no need to change anything running high GRs or T10, even the blind flash is more useful than consecration, with almost 70%CDR you can use it all the time and elites or rift guardians dont do anything, they just die before they cast anything. Once you hit around 14-15k strength, you kill almost everything just with the horse:)

For the record there has been some commentary on specific changes given ideal gear, including some skill changes like AC-Rally, Laws of Hope-WoA, Avarice Band/Boon of Hoarder, etc. I've addressed these as they are all preference. For example, AC-Prophet allows you fully negate multiple stacked Molten explosions and Arcane beams so you can pick up globes and move on without worry, etc. Once you meet certain gear thresholds (like all 13 ancient items) you can start dropping certain items in favor of more quality of life changes. Note that TOO much movement speed is bad, as you will miss the damage ticks from your Thorny Pony.

Great idea, hopefully we can get something like this this year. A huge technical feat for sure (make sure nothing can be exploited - lost gear, duping, etc) and a large monetary concern (will probably triple/quadruple effective stash space per account).

Quote from D3Vern»

180 (Ancient Kymbo's Gold) Amu=180 (Norm)

100 (Goldskin) Chest=280 (Norm)

80 1 H weap (Devil Tongue/Sun Keeper)=360 (Norm)

35*10 other slots=350=710 (Norm) (if all Legendaries/Sets)

82 from Flawless Royal Emerald (Leoric's Crown)=792 (Norm)

50 from Paragon=842 (Norm)

This is the absolute max GF% on Norm difficulty. Add in Boon of the hoarder Lvl 50 (100% gold drop chance/monster, has no effect in the Vault) and 20x multiplier from TX and it maxes out at 16,840%, not including a 20% GF from one of the Cain sets. Add in the RNG factor for multiple Barons in the Vault... Safe bet 500m gold on a maxed GF%. Theoretically speaking, of course. That's my seasonal project. Nearly hit it S4, missed the Emerald and not high enough Paragon though. Topped out at 650ish.

Quote from D3Vern»

How is that related to Gold Farming in the Vault? You could also use Devil Tongue, Goldwrap, Custerian Wristguards and Gladiator Gauntlets for additional GF% (180+100+80+(35*10)+Boon)*20=14,200+1400 from Set bonuses ~15,600-17,000 GF% max w/ 100% Boon and a Baron or 3 can get very close to 1.4 b gold in Vault TX.

Quote from D_O_Aruss»

Yes we dont need ANOTHER wrap up, PTR goes on far to fucking long, a lot of diablo 3 players are bored of said patch by now. I haven't touched the game in easily two weeks i hate to say it :/

Quote from ActionJunkie»

Quote from MeatHeadMikhail»

Guys - it's not a build video, it's specifically a general concept for (newer) players regarding fast upgrades. I just happen to have a geared DH and all I had to do was swap a couple pieces and passives and I'm ready to go. Furthermore, chicken doc can be fast at the very low tiers, but once you get the uppers (50+) it slows to a crawl since LS doesn't tic for enough damage to kill trash before you're too far away. DH scales into 70+ without much trouble with fire UE.

True. BUT so many peeps need to realize chicken doc isn't exclusively arachyr... all it requires is 2piece Manajuma's. You can run Helltooth or whatever your heart desires with insane movement and do GRifts 65+ easy.

Guys - it's not a build video, it's specifically a general concept for (newer) players regarding fast upgrades. I just happen to have a geared DH and all I had to do was swap a couple pieces and passives and I'm ready to go. Furthermore, chicken doc can be fast at the very low tiers, but once you get the uppers (50+) it slows to a crawl since LS doesn't tic for enough damage to kill trash before you're too far away. DH scales into 70+ without much trouble with fire UE.

Quote from UberMey»

Does the lag caused about high damage numbers has gone? (been off since I died in HC for that kind of lag)

Quote from Arokhantos»

Why would you rollback, its blizzard job to fix it, a rollback makes you lose progress why would you do that ever.

I think some of the people here are missing the point - the update to sets is not meant to make them more powerful than what's currently in the game. Power creep is inevitable via paragon (and now Caldesann's Despair cube recipe) - making sets even stronger will only make the problem worse.

Mentioned at BlizzCon that S4 ending 'late December' (date unknown) and that there'd be a 'slightly longer break' between seasons - 2 weeks is a likely time frame. There also has to be a 2 week official 'season ending' announcement, which has not come yet. Highly unlikely you'll see the patch before next year, as employees are on vacation and not there to troubleshoot any massive problems.