One thing I want to say, can we keep this discussion without personal references? It destroys the whole purpose of a discussion. Especially on a topic like this.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
where I'm at, many people hate Hispanics, especially Mexicans. For the most part, they express their hatred toward them by making generalizations about them being lazy, dirty, and stupid. But my point is that when they say those things about them, I'm thinking, yeah, but white people are just as much that way too.
That happens pretty much everywhere. Generalizations are common. They are often true.
Speaking of white people. I have been to many and many schools. Schools with 99% of black population have very low standards and are at the state of Academic emergency back in the city of Dayton. It was very dirty, too. I have been to one, we decided to homeschool because those teachers weren't ready for people like me. At the same time, there was another school around, the 99% white school. We figured it would be better (my dad is terribly racist, btw). But it was just as bad. People in that school were mostly what you call rednecks.
I would say that both white and black (not sure about all other ethnicities, never mind them) have their own groups inside them. There are redneck whites and similar blacks. More redneck blacks due to their descent or I don't know what, never heard of a good school with 99% black population. This is pretty much where my generalizations come from. Except I saw a lot of educated black people who are very pleasant to talk to, some of them a lot more pleasant than white people, in fact. White people tend to be a bit too prideful.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Or another example is how you clearly have a distaste for Jews. And you say you dislike them because not just one of them is acting like a jerk, but a ton are acting like jerks. My question to you then is, do you think they're collectively acting like jerks because they're Jews?
Yes. Because that is what their religion is based on. Their religion is based on the fact that all Jews are the right ones, and everybody else doesn't matter. Jews tend to help other Jews a LOT but the tend to hardly care about anybody else. I mean, I feel that most Jews are actually racist to anyone else. Very practical. The way a Jew person must always be married to a Jew. Also the way they are obsessed with wealth. Talk about money all the time. The way they betray people. The way they smile at you and make you pay twice as much at the same time. We had some Jewish people who tried to mess us up in terms of paying the rent and stuff. We currently have some Jews as friends and stuff, and we are kind of wary of them. We wouldn't trust them our lives, you know.
Jews in Russia, Jews in America, everywhere. Scary. I think there was one Jew who never tried anything on us. But he is in a deep state of depression. So, I believe that is just the Jewish way of life. A whole culture. With the exception of renounced Jews, which are completely different in every way, for some reason, I can't even call them Jews.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Or are they just like most humans and act like jerks anyway?
Americans, blacks, Chinese, whoever are so much nicer to us. We worked with many ethinic groups and we were in contact and they were all good people. Even the blacks who don't want to learn. Still terribly nice people. Nicer than Ukrainian kids who cut your fingers off. Not all, of course, but the vast-vast majority.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
And is it all just them being a jerk to you? Are you being nice to them or just employing some form of defensive minimalism? And it's not just you seeing a Jew be a jerk, but "we" seeing a Jew be a jerk. Are you eluding to some group that you belong to?
I'm being to Jews as I am being to everybody else. As I told you, I don't care. Whether I like a group or not really, expressing negativity to a person just because his ethnicity/religion has a name is just dumb to me. I don't develop any sleazy and sarcastic attitudes as you may think. I always have a thread of hope for every new person. It's a new unique person, with its own world, worries, dreams, opinions, every human is unique and beatiful, in its own way. Sorry if that sounds confusing.
Speaking of we, I refer to my parents and myself. Our 3-people nomad group. But I could as well refer to most Russians.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
And even if you wish to realize there's an exception in the form of a normal Jew, will you see that person as an individual or merely as a part of a group who could only possibly be a certain way because of the group they belong to?
I see everybody as an individual depending on how they act. I can eventually add them to a group, but not the other way around, and it takes a long time. Besides, I usually don't like to think of a person who I am talking to in terms of "hey, he's a Jew". Person first, ethinicity later.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
It is also difficult for me to know sometimes if I'm speaking with my heart about these things or with my mind. I wish to be as logical as I can when addressing racism, since I do think racism is ostensibly illogical. But I have personal feelings about these issues that sometimes defy logic and I become defensive when trying to address why I'm so emotional about it. Cause obviously it's easier to flail about with our emotions than trying to break down these complicated issues using objective discourse.
Yes, it's kind of difficult for me to take everything you say seriously because you are floating in an emotional area all the time but I guess you are OK.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
And Equinox has a valid point that humans generally don't like other humans who look and behave differently. And that dislike is based on fear. And that fear comes from being ignorant. How does one overcome ignorance? I don't know, really.
Nah, Sianoq, you are missing my point. It's not even ignorance. Deeper that that, it's nature. Nature tends to get rid of these kind of groups:
-unattractive;
-genetically impure;
-unable to reproduce;
-sick;
-weak;
-crazy.
A weak rabbit gets eaten by a wolf, a bird that hasn't got good enough plumage never gets a partner, a dog with three legs can't find food and dies, etc. Impure animals always die of. This is built in into animal instincts. Possessing little intelligence, they cannot break through.
But we, humans, have broken the nature's laws. We heal our sick, we love the ugly for other qualities (wow, we actually have OTHER qualities). We have abnormal emotions and we have morals. Which is why humans are never animals. And the basis of civilization is blocking instincts. Except you can't break everything. If you do, it will be a sour world, like the movie Equilibrium tried to show. Thus, a normal civilization is one which is balanced between logic and animalism. This is a very complicated question, which way should it sway? Should we outlaw sex because it causes all this ugly stuff and sexual harrassment issues? There would be a lot less problems if we did. But will we actually be humans anymore? I dunno.
Anyway... racism is just one of those instincts. I don't think thinking about it is blockable, but it is certainly controllable, there is no excuse for offensive racism, stupid jokes included. That is my balancing point. But everybody has different views. mutton thinks it's unforgivable in every way possible.
And people with the culture of killing kids to retain honor... or cutting an arm of someone who stole... that is what I consider a stage of animalic behavior, a culture that is not yet a civilization.
One thing I want to say, can we keep this discussion without personal references? It destroys the whole purpose of a discussion. Especially on a topic like this.
That happens pretty much everywhere. Generalizations are common. They are often true.
Speaking of white people. I have been to many and many schools. Schools with 99% of black population have very low standards and are at the state of Academic emergency back in the city of Dayton. It was very dirty, too. I have been to one, we decided to homeschool because those teachers weren't ready for people like me. At the same time, there was another school around, the 99% white school. We figured it would be better (my dad is terribly racist, btw). But it was just as bad. People in that school were mostly what you call rednecks.
One thing I want to say, can we keep this discussion without personal references? It destroys the whole purpose of a discussion. Especially on a topic like this.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Yes. Because that is what their religion is based on. Their religion is based on the fact that all Jews are the right ones, and everybody else doesn't matter. Jews tend to help other Jews a LOT but the tend to hardly care about anybody else. I mean, I feel that most Jews are actually racist to anyone else. Very practical. The way a Jew person must always be married to a Jew. Also the way they are obsessed with wealth. Talk about money all the time. The way they betray people. The way they smile at you and make you pay twice as much at the same time. We had some Jewish people who tried to mess us up in terms of paying the rent and stuff. We currently have some Jews as friends and stuff, and we are kind of wary of them. We wouldn't trust them our lives, you know.
Jews in Russia, Jews in America, everywhere. Scary. I think there was one Jew who never tried anything on us. But he is in a deep state of depression. So, I believe that is just the Jewish way of life. A whole culture. With the exception of renounced Jews, which are completely different in every way, for some reason, I can't even call them Jews.
Jews are not special in that they're obsessed with money. Lots of people are obsessed with money. The good news is that no one is forcing you to give your money to Jews or anyone else. And many religions state a person must marry within their faith. Jews are not unique in that aspect either.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I'm being to Jews as I am being to everybody else. As I told you, I don't care. Whether I like a group or not really, expressing negativity to a person just because his ethnicity/religion has a name is just dumb to me. I don't develop any sleazy and sarcastic attitudes as you may think.
Sure you do. You have just reinforced many of the sleazy stereotypes that are associated with Jews.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I always have a thread of hope for every new person.
As I do with you despite your non-sequitur reasonings.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I see everybody as an individual depending on how they act. I can eventually add them to a group, but not the other way around, and it takes a long time. Besides, I usually don't like to think of a person who I am talking to in terms of "hey, he's a Jew". Person first, ethinicity later.
You mean to tell me when you walk into a Jewish store that you're not already thinking how the Jewish teller is going to try and get all your money? Instead, you're going to give this Jew a chance and see if he smiles through his teeth at you?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Yes, it's kind of difficult for me to take everything you say seriously because you are floating in an emotional area all the time but I guess you are OK.
Um, I think I stick to logic most of the time and leave my emotions on the side. I'm willing to bet someone can vouch for me on that. However, I'll admit I definitely convey sarcasm and cynicism more than I should. but I guess you are OK.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Nah, Sianoq, you are missing my point. It's not even ignorance. Deeper that that, it's nature. Nature tends to get rid of these kind of groups:
-unattractive;
-genetically impure;
-unable to reproduce;
-sick;
-weak;
-crazy.
Eguino, define what is unattractive or genetically impure. Nature isn't trying to weed out the ugly people and there is no such thing as being genetically pure. We've seen in the past how the belief in a pure race is completely asinine.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Anyway... racism is just one of those instincts. I don't think thinking about it is blockable, but it is certainly controllable, there is no excuse for offensive racism, stupid jokes included. That is my balancing point. But everybody has different views. mutton thinks it's unforgivable in every way possible.
But didn't you just say there's no excuse for racism and/or stupid jokes? Isn't that like saying it's inexcusable?
"One thing I want to say, can we keep this discussion without personal references? It destroys the whole purpose of a discussion. Especially on a topic like this." - sorry, you are really not following my request, and this would lead nowhere, it never does. End of discussion.
Racism is acceptable. You cannot destroy it. It's just there. It's nature. I'm glad that you are crystal clear and that all people are beautiful to you and that all people's customs are close to you. I'm not that kind of a person. And I will never be.
How can you say something as stupid as "racism is acceptable"? That itself is an ignorant statement.
Ignorant racism brings unhappiness to other people. And racism in my mind has no effect on things at all. Except that I don't imagine myself dating a Chinese guy. But that is my business entirely.
Ah, I see, so you're saying that ignorant racism makes people unhappy. You mean as opposed to informed racism which is supposed to make people happy? That's stupid. Racism is bad in general. Don't soften the issue like that.
I do not believe they go hand in hand.
Then you're wrong. There is no such thing as informed racism. There is no benefit to racism. Ignorance spawns racism, in its entirity. End of story.
Yes. I never denied that.
For someone who claims not to express racist thoughts, that's pretty ironic, not to mention contradictory.
Why would a person be actively racist, if not for pride?
That's stupid. Racism in America was not spawned from self-confidence. It was the hegemonic process of Southern aristocrats (as well as carpet-baggers from the North who aspired to be aristocrats) pitting the poorer white man against the blacks, so that they could have political support for slavery. Example? Overseers. Rich white men hire poor white men to take power over black people and tell them that it's the right thing to do.
And that has nothing to do with pride. That's the privileged manipulation of the lower class.
It's funny to me how a person can describe in detail why they hate a particular race and then be like, "See, it's not racism. I have compelling reasons to hate this race. They're mean to me, they want my money, and they're such phonies." But what those people fail to realize are the lengths they go to reassure themselves and others how and why those things are true.
I guess most of all what bothers me about racism is how people hate certain things about a particular group of people, but what they fail to realize is that most people in the world are that way anway. I suppose, however, that it's just easier to stay mad at a particular race or ethinicity as opposed to the majority of all people.
The fact is, is that the wolrd is racist, no one will change it, and even if you say your arent, you are, because its human nature to hate people like that, collectly as a race
Ill admit I am racist, and I dont mean to be, I like most people, but sometimes I put people I dislike out by characterizing them for their color, not their actions. Its just easier that way, and I think thatsa problem. racism is wrong, and I dont like it, but you have to admit to yourself you are. Even those who say racist is wrong like blacksa, are racist against whites. its true. you cant help your thoughts whether you like it or not- you dont control them, they come by your pattern of thought. We are inclined to be evil. Its human nature. Its your duty to rise above that.
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Stars aligning fragments of the memories
Parallel truth, awaken in translucence
Sealed by this deadened song
Sinking in toneless comatose
Come and tear my skin, fear what's within
Its massive darkness filling my world
Submerged rage writing unspoken words
It's called a scapegoat. Happens all the time. Look at what was happening with the New Orleans flood. People were pointing fingers everywhere, looking for someone to blame. There's also the Scooter Libby case. The Bush administration let one guy take the fall for an entire group action.
I must say that it is natural to point the finger. And in this case, at a race. But that is not an excuse for racism.
The fact is, is that the wolrd is racist, no one will change it, and even if you say your arent, you are, because its human nature to hate people like that, collectly as a race
Ill admit I am racist, and I dont mean to be, I like most people, but sometimes I put people I dislike out by characterizing them for their color, not their actions. Its just easier that way, and I think thatsa problem. racism is wrong, and I dont like it, but you have to admit to yourself you are. Even those who say racist is wrong like blacksa, are racist against whites. its true. you cant help your thoughts whether you like it or not- you dont control them, they come by your pattern of thought. We are inclined to be evil. Its human nature. Its your duty to rise above that.
I understand what you're saying. I don't think anyone is completely above racism. And neither am I saying that because everyone is somewhat racist, that it makes it okay. I am saying however that how one acts on their racist tendencies is what's really important. And I believe when reflecting why and how we are racist, it raises questions about ourselves. And I think we should answer those questions as truthfully as possible. Hopefully in doing so, we have revelations about ourselves that makes us more understanding and less hateful. I mean, is that too idealistic? Cause I've always felt it was a simple way to put things like that into context.
It's a lot easier to make sweeping generalizations about things and people. And that's why people do it. Because they don't bother to think beyond what they want to believe.
My recent thought on rascism after reading this thread.
Rascism is a way for people to generalize events that have happened ( such as 9/11 ) and place them on the whole race, thus allowing them to think the whole race is bad. Based on that they in their minds think its ok to discriminate against that race and be rascist towards it. Ignorance has nothing to do with it nor does nature, just bad judgement and not well thought out explantions of why u feel that way toward ur fellow man. If rascism was because of nature im sure humans wouldn't have went as far as they have gone without enilating themselves, be it from early man to man now with nuclear weapons. Ignorance which i group with pride ( yes, i know they're different ) also has nothing to do with it, its misinformed generalizations that are grouped to a race, thus resulting in hate, alot of this is due to the media.
My opinion may change this is just a recent thought i hav and is what i currently think rascism is.
Sry if i violated the whole no personal stuff, but it sounded to me like u guys are still trying to just define rascism.
An example of how my theory works, a group of black people raid a local store around where i live, my grandma makes a rascist statement saying something against all blacks as if the whole race is jsut as bad as the one's who commited the crime.
Why is the thread called Racism in today's American society?
Americans are so full of themselfs, i dont get it.
Eh, I don't think anyone felt they could only talk about racism in America. And just because America is the greatest country in the world, that doesn't mean we Americans are full of ourselves.:D
I didn't even know what a showinist was. So I looked it up on Google and found this statement, "you all lazy cock sucking communists and their grandsons, showinist pigs, get back to your homeland, get back to your ukraine, get back to your belorussia,..."
I'd be quite serious in saying that. After all, America is the super power.
a) Russia can steal beat it
being a super power doesn't make you the best country
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
I didn't even know what a showinist was.
A patriot who went too far, thinks that his country is the best and that all other countries should live the same way. Plus, he also enforces his opinion on everybody.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
But i also dislike pc. (political correctness)
And reverse bias, that is even worse.
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That happens pretty much everywhere. Generalizations are common. They are often true.
Speaking of white people. I have been to many and many schools. Schools with 99% of black population have very low standards and are at the state of Academic emergency back in the city of Dayton. It was very dirty, too. I have been to one, we decided to homeschool because those teachers weren't ready for people like me. At the same time, there was another school around, the 99% white school. We figured it would be better (my dad is terribly racist, btw). But it was just as bad. People in that school were mostly what you call rednecks.
I would say that both white and black (not sure about all other ethnicities, never mind them) have their own groups inside them. There are redneck whites and similar blacks. More redneck blacks due to their descent or I don't know what, never heard of a good school with 99% black population. This is pretty much where my generalizations come from. Except I saw a lot of educated black people who are very pleasant to talk to, some of them a lot more pleasant than white people, in fact. White people tend to be a bit too prideful.
Yes. Because that is what their religion is based on. Their religion is based on the fact that all Jews are the right ones, and everybody else doesn't matter. Jews tend to help other Jews a LOT but the tend to hardly care about anybody else. I mean, I feel that most Jews are actually racist to anyone else. Very practical. The way a Jew person must always be married to a Jew. Also the way they are obsessed with wealth. Talk about money all the time. The way they betray people. The way they smile at you and make you pay twice as much at the same time. We had some Jewish people who tried to mess us up in terms of paying the rent and stuff. We currently have some Jews as friends and stuff, and we are kind of wary of them. We wouldn't trust them our lives, you know.
Jews in Russia, Jews in America, everywhere. Scary. I think there was one Jew who never tried anything on us. But he is in a deep state of depression. So, I believe that is just the Jewish way of life. A whole culture. With the exception of renounced Jews, which are completely different in every way, for some reason, I can't even call them Jews.
Americans, blacks, Chinese, whoever are so much nicer to us. We worked with many ethinic groups and we were in contact and they were all good people. Even the blacks who don't want to learn. Still terribly nice people. Nicer than Ukrainian kids who cut your fingers off. Not all, of course, but the vast-vast majority.
I'm being to Jews as I am being to everybody else. As I told you, I don't care. Whether I like a group or not really, expressing negativity to a person just because his ethnicity/religion has a name is just dumb to me. I don't develop any sleazy and sarcastic attitudes as you may think. I always have a thread of hope for every new person. It's a new unique person, with its own world, worries, dreams, opinions, every human is unique and beatiful, in its own way. Sorry if that sounds confusing.
Speaking of we, I refer to my parents and myself. Our 3-people nomad group. But I could as well refer to most Russians.
I see everybody as an individual depending on how they act. I can eventually add them to a group, but not the other way around, and it takes a long time. Besides, I usually don't like to think of a person who I am talking to in terms of "hey, he's a Jew". Person first, ethinicity later.
Yes, it's kind of difficult for me to take everything you say seriously because you are floating in an emotional area all the time but I guess you are OK.
Nah, Sianoq, you are missing my point. It's not even ignorance. Deeper that that, it's nature. Nature tends to get rid of these kind of groups:
-unattractive;
-genetically impure;
-unable to reproduce;
-sick;
-weak;
-crazy.
A weak rabbit gets eaten by a wolf, a bird that hasn't got good enough plumage never gets a partner, a dog with three legs can't find food and dies, etc. Impure animals always die of. This is built in into animal instincts. Possessing little intelligence, they cannot break through.
But we, humans, have broken the nature's laws. We heal our sick, we love the ugly for other qualities (wow, we actually have OTHER qualities). We have abnormal emotions and we have morals. Which is why humans are never animals. And the basis of civilization is blocking instincts. Except you can't break everything. If you do, it will be a sour world, like the movie Equilibrium tried to show. Thus, a normal civilization is one which is balanced between logic and animalism. This is a very complicated question, which way should it sway? Should we outlaw sex because it causes all this ugly stuff and sexual harrassment issues? There would be a lot less problems if we did. But will we actually be humans anymore? I dunno.
Anyway... racism is just one of those instincts. I don't think thinking about it is blockable, but it is certainly controllable, there is no excuse for offensive racism, stupid jokes included. That is my balancing point. But everybody has different views. mutton thinks it's unforgivable in every way possible.
And people with the culture of killing kids to retain honor... or cutting an arm of someone who stole... that is what I consider a stage of animalic behavior, a culture that is not yet a civilization.
Jews are not special in that they're obsessed with money. Lots of people are obsessed with money. The good news is that no one is forcing you to give your money to Jews or anyone else. And many religions state a person must marry within their faith. Jews are not unique in that aspect either.
Sure you do. You have just reinforced many of the sleazy stereotypes that are associated with Jews.
As I do with you despite your non-sequitur reasonings.
You mean to tell me when you walk into a Jewish store that you're not already thinking how the Jewish teller is going to try and get all your money? Instead, you're going to give this Jew a chance and see if he smiles through his teeth at you?
Um, I think I stick to logic most of the time and leave my emotions on the side. I'm willing to bet someone can vouch for me on that. However, I'll admit I definitely convey sarcasm and cynicism more than I should. but I guess you are OK.
Eguino, define what is unattractive or genetically impure. Nature isn't trying to weed out the ugly people and there is no such thing as being genetically pure. We've seen in the past how the belief in a pure race is completely asinine.
But didn't you just say there's no excuse for racism and/or stupid jokes? Isn't that like saying it's inexcusable?
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How can you say something as stupid as "racism is acceptable"? That itself is an ignorant statement.
Ah, I see, so you're saying that ignorant racism makes people unhappy. You mean as opposed to informed racism which is supposed to make people happy? That's stupid. Racism is bad in general. Don't soften the issue like that.
Then you're wrong. There is no such thing as informed racism. There is no benefit to racism. Ignorance spawns racism, in its entirity. End of story.
For someone who claims not to express racist thoughts, that's pretty ironic, not to mention contradictory.
That's stupid. Racism in America was not spawned from self-confidence. It was the hegemonic process of Southern aristocrats (as well as carpet-baggers from the North who aspired to be aristocrats) pitting the poorer white man against the blacks, so that they could have political support for slavery. Example? Overseers. Rich white men hire poor white men to take power over black people and tell them that it's the right thing to do.
And that has nothing to do with pride. That's the privileged manipulation of the lower class.
I guess most of all what bothers me about racism is how people hate certain things about a particular group of people, but what they fail to realize is that most people in the world are that way anway. I suppose, however, that it's just easier to stay mad at a particular race or ethinicity as opposed to the majority of all people.
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Ill admit I am racist, and I dont mean to be, I like most people, but sometimes I put people I dislike out by characterizing them for their color, not their actions. Its just easier that way, and I think thatsa problem. racism is wrong, and I dont like it, but you have to admit to yourself you are. Even those who say racist is wrong like blacksa, are racist against whites. its true. you cant help your thoughts whether you like it or not- you dont control them, they come by your pattern of thought. We are inclined to be evil. Its human nature. Its your duty to rise above that.
Parallel truth, awaken in translucence
Sealed by this deadened song
Sinking in toneless comatose
Come and tear my skin, fear what's within
Its massive darkness filling my world
Submerged rage writing unspoken words
I must say that it is natural to point the finger. And in this case, at a race. But that is not an excuse for racism.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Rascism is a way for people to generalize events that have happened ( such as 9/11 ) and place them on the whole race, thus allowing them to think the whole race is bad. Based on that they in their minds think its ok to discriminate against that race and be rascist towards it. Ignorance has nothing to do with it nor does nature, just bad judgement and not well thought out explantions of why u feel that way toward ur fellow man. If rascism was because of nature im sure humans wouldn't have went as far as they have gone without enilating themselves, be it from early man to man now with nuclear weapons. Ignorance which i group with pride ( yes, i know they're different ) also has nothing to do with it, its misinformed generalizations that are grouped to a race, thus resulting in hate, alot of this is due to the media.
My opinion may change this is just a recent thought i hav and is what i currently think rascism is.
Sry if i violated the whole no personal stuff, but it sounded to me like u guys are still trying to just define rascism.
An example of how my theory works, a group of black people raid a local store around where i live, my grandma makes a rascist statement saying something against all blacks as if the whole race is jsut as bad as the one's who commited the crime.
unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep
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Great joke by the way...because racists are classified as a group of people of a certain color.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
being a super power doesn't make you the best country
A patriot who went too far, thinks that his country is the best and that all other countries should live the same way. Plus, he also enforces his opinion on everybody.
And reverse bias, that is even worse.