I knew this was going to get nerfed. There was no way ToC would remain the way it was, which is why I didn't build around it like others have. It does suck for some DH 'tanks' that like to use it along with Sentry and Chain of Torment for the LoH procs and what not that they won't have this skill as being viable. However, the way Blizzard went with explaining this...was not really that good...and that's putting it politely. This doesn't seem like a bug to me, it seems like it was intended and they didn't do much testing on it because they figured with how small the Discipline pool is and that people would be more inclined to gravitate towards Hatred Spenders along with the fact that Vault is used primarily as a defensive measure or just to get around faster...yeah. This was no bug, this was just Blizzard not doing the proper testing of values (which is no surprise considering how many other untested things the game launched with) and now they're doing a rather poor job at trying to make it sound like they didn't royally screw up.
Bullshit, how you gonna try to say that it was a bug, the damn patch notes noted 1500%, that's not a damn bug, maybe a mistake, or maybe they didn't realize that the majority of DH's would take advantage of this, but don't call it a damn bug!!!!!
I normally don't get mad but that's a damn slap in the face!!
It is possible, but incredibly unlikely. If you would have read the post or/and have any shred of idea about development (I have btw) you would know that things like the numbers in the tooltips or large chunks of changelogs are generated automatically and processed. Nobody has time to write all this from hand!
Blizz needs to learn the difference between "bug" and "unforeseen design consequence".
Since a lot of you seem to be on this bandwagon, let me point something out to you that may shock you.
A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code
So by calling it a bug they're trying to divert the blame away from themselves?
Personally it seems like a case of spoilt child syndrome with a hint of no real life experience.
(P.S. It's amazing to see how much this forum has declined in only a month, they make the game easier and it brings out even more whiners and noobs who can't figure it out, at least before when it was hard it discouraged a lot of bad players)
Bullshit, how you gonna try to say that it was a bug, the damn patch notes noted 1500%, that's not a damn bug, maybe a mistake, or maybe they didn't realize that the majority of DH's would take advantage of this, but don't call it a damn bug!!!!!
The game is essentially just a big database, so a simple test with an excell spreadsheet or even a piece of paper would show to you how it is possible. The developers entered in data wrong, which is a bug in the database. The people that create the patch notes pulled their information from the same database that had the incorrect numbers.
To test this do the following:
Write a number on a piece of paper
Give the number to a friend and have them write a sentance with the number.
Now what happens if realize you wanted to write 42 instead of 43? Did you make a mistake? Is your friend lying? Are you slapping your friend in the face because you told him to change it to 42 because that is what you meant? Did you lie to your friend? Did you slap him in the face by saying you made a mistake?
Its funny how Blizzard says its a bug, says they made a mistake, explained how it really should be. And yet people with no proof of a lie claim it is a lie. Or that Blizzard doesn't know what bug means and is changing the english language in order to fool the community.
There are plenty of things to criticise Diablo 3 and Blizzard about, but doing so over this just shows that the true intention is to troll rather then criticize.
Translation: they 'accidentally' gave you some insanely strong skill to play with. Play with it, abuse it, love it, then wait for the patch to come out so they can introduce the next flavor of the patch skill.
It was a bug (miscommunication often causes bugs - did you hear about the Mars lander that crashed and burned because the development teams in US and Europe had confused feet and meters - the lander entered the atmosphere at three times the intended speed), and it was their mistake to not catch it in testing. They said that in their comments. So to me it looks like they _are_ owning to their mistakes.
Then basically they're just incompetent. If the person behind the changes didn't notice that the ability was doing 1500% instead of the intended 300%, and as a result call it a 'bug', then yeah, there's no other logical explanation.
I'd have more respect for a developer that simply states, "Oops, we made it way too powerful. Our bad, we'll fix it" over one that sayd, "The ability that says it does 1500% damage is actually doing 1500% damage and that's a bug that needs to be fixed."
IMO, if an ability states it does 1500% damage and it actually does 1500% damage, that is not a bug. Overtuned? sure. Overpowered? Definitely. But, it's doing what it says it's supposed to be doing and just needs to be toned down and brought in line. However, if it said it was supposed to do 300% damage and was instead doing 1500%, then that would be a bug and I would understand it being called as such.
As it stands, I don't appreciate Blizzard calling this a bug. They're adjusting a (very) overpowered ability, not fixing an unintentional bug. It may have been unintentional for the ability to be as powerful as it is, but this was not the result of a bug but rather an oversight.
I read how they "explained" it's a bug. To me, that's just more insulting to people. I simply don't understand why they couldn't have come out and said, "We made ToC way too powerful. Our bad, we'll be reducing it's power to be more in line with where we originally intended it come next patch" That I would have been fine with.
Let me also just say, I don't even play a DH. I have a 60 DH, but I sold all her gear so she's pretty much naked. This change means nothing to me. But saying that when the patch notes and tooltip of the ability state it does 1500% damage and it in fact does 1500% damage and then try to call that a bug a week and a half after the patch goes live? I call BS on that. Again, whoever was adjusting the numbers should have instantly realized 1500 is not 300, or they're incredibly incompetent and needs to find new employment. Even if by some chance they legitimately didn't notice at first, they should have immediately noticed it after the patch went live and a hotfix within 24 hours would have been okay. No, they waited nearly 2 weeks, then come to everyone and say, "ToC is way too powerful, but not because we made it like that but rather due to an unforeseeable bug. We're fixing this with the next patch". Yup, *cough* BS.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
I'd have more respect for a developer that simply states, "Oops, we made it way too powerful. Our bad, we'll fix it" over one that sayd, "The ability that says it does 1500% damage is actually doing 1500% damage and that's a bug that needs to be fixed."
Those two things mean the same thing when talking about Video games. Who do you think creates the code that causes bugs? Entering the wrong value is a bug. It doesn't matter what an ability says it does and what an ability actually does. What matters is that a developer entered the wrong value and thus created a bug.
The tooltip for Trail of Cinders automatically pulls its value from the incorrectly entered value, so it will always reflect the damage it actually does. You are just out for a witch hunt and looking to crucify Blizzard every semantics. If you don't like Blizzard, Diablo 3 and the direction they are taking the Franchise that is fine. But there is no reason to rant over something that is a bug.
A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code
I understand that not every can be computer savy and might not understand the terms used in regards to Computer/Video games. But multiple people, including Blizzard, has clearly explainded how and why it is a bug.
I had a blast with ToC, the amount of damage it was doing is hilarious, my build was built all around it with maximum regen just spamming it, its the only reason that made me go back to plat my DH
Bug or no bug, we know it's going to get nerfed. We just didn't know that they are going to nerf it this hard. I was thinking of a 2x-3x nerf, which would have been more reasonable IMO.
The mistake that was made, was not in the computer program...
Diablo 3, the game, is the computer program. The variable that holds the numerical value for Trail of Cinders is a part of that computer program. Yes the skill does exactly what it states it does, but that doesn't mean that the value entered is correct. An incorrect value is a bug.
You picked out a few words to show how it is not a bug while ignoring the words that state mistakes that produce incorrect or unexpected results are considered bugs. A developer entering the wrong value for a skill is a mistake that produced an unexpected result because it wasn't supposed to do that much damage.
A developer entered the wrong value for how much Damage Trail of cinders does. How is that not a bug? When talking to your project lead that something feels wrong and the find out that it is because of an incorrect value for a line of code, how is that not a bug? What do you call a line of code that is incorrect and giving an unintended effect?
Many people aren't understanding what I'm writing here and are trying to correct me when there's nothing to correct. Like this
If their (designers) _intention_ was to make it do 300% damage and then someone programmed it to do 1500%, that is a bug. Yes, the software does what the programmer told it to do (and because the tooltip apparently reads from game date, it also says 1500%), but that was never the designer intention. So, especially from designer point-of-view, this is definitely a bug.
If it truly wasn't their intention to make it 1500% damage, you'd be absolutely correct. I however am saying their intention was to make it 1500% damage. They never originally intended to make it 300%, they're just saying that now to save face. However, they didn't realize exactly how powerful 1500% damage over a few seconds would be at the time and since they now realize that 1500% is way overpowered. So, they are now coming out and stating, 'we never intended it to do 1500% damage. that's a bug' when in reality, it's not a bug, they just overcompensated with the ability. Hence, they are intentionally misleading the community by calling it an unintentional bug when it is nothing of the sort. I believe this is to keep the community outcry to a minimum. 'Bug fix' sounds a lot better than 'nerf', but this is also what I find personally insulting. The community can be a very mature group of individuals, there's no reason to mislead them.
Let me put it another way. For example, lets say they intended for a reasonably well geared DH to be able to kill an elite pack in 20 seconds. They adjusted ToC to 1500%, along with tweaking other skills, tested it a bit and within their testing, they were killing elite packs within approximately 20 seconds. It looked good, so they patched it in. However, once it went live, they found DHs killing elite packs in 10 seconds. They notice the main cause is ToC doing way more damage than they intended because they didn't understand exactly how much 1500% over a few seconds impacted their killing power. They realize that ToC needs to be nerfed, but instead of calling it a nerf, they're claiming it's too powerful 'due to a bug' and is instead needs to be 'fixed'. They didn't intend it to allow DH to kill so efficiently, that much is clear. In that respect, the fast killing is unintended. This however is not a bug. There's a difference.
That was just an example to express my point. If you still believe that it's a bug, I can't change your mind. We have very different opinions on what constitutes a bug then I guess. The ability was overtuned. Overtuning an ability does not constitute a bug in my eyes. Calling it a bug is insulting. If it actually is a bug, then it's the result incompetence on a grand scale. People that incompetent shouldn't be the ones making adjustments to the game period.
It pretty much boils down to this:
If it really wasn't a bug but are calling it one to keep community outcry low, then they are just insulting the people that know better. Especially when they easily could have just come out and stated they overcompensating on an ability and it needs to be brought in line. It happens, most people understand that.
If it actually is a bug, as many of you here are arguing it is by tossing around definitions of what actually defines a bug, then it simply shows their incompetence on their own patching process. It was simply too obvious to not notice before the patch went live. It was extremely obvious to notice after the patch went live. It was simply too easy to hotfix immediately after noticing. That's all under the assumption that it was in fact, an unintended bug. Yet for some reason it took Blizzard 2 weeks before "noticing" this "bug" and yet instead of fixing such a gross miscalculation caused by a "bug" (that they are implying it is) they are allowing it to thrive until the next official patch. Sorry, I guess I'm just too stubborn to buy into that BS.
I respect blizzard and I enjoy playing Diablo 3. However, Blizzard knows that D3 is in a pretty rough spot right now. They are going out of their way to ensure the players that are still playing remain happy and are doing everything in their power to bring those people that left back into the fold. Turning around in 2 weeks after a patch and nerfing an ability that really does require it is a fine line to walk. When people start crying nerf, they risk the possibility of losing people still playing as well as risk scaring those that are contemplating coming back away. So, they call it a 'bug fix' in an attempt to alleviate that. (the only other option being to allow ToC to remain in game as it is, which is pretty much unacceptable).
I understand what they did and why they did it. I don't respect it though or acknowledge that it was necessary.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
That's called human error, as in problem was between brain and keyboard. Not a problem between the entered value and the value used in game, that's called a bug...
Hard to grasp?
Almost all comptuer bugs are the result of Human error. Why? Because humans are the one that write computer code. Some computer bugs are the result of the compiler which isn't directly related to human error.
Why Blizzard even tries to explain themselves to such an immature and entitled community is beyond me.
they pay their bills and make their investors happy
Silly me. Here I thought making content and great games to increase sales was what made Blizzard money. But apparently explaining game mechanics to entitled kids who doesn't know the first thing about game design and just want to be able to kill things in Inferno is what makes investors happy. Silly investors, they need to get a hobby.
Actually you're just misrepresenting their audience. Silly poster, you need to get a life.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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It is possible, but incredibly unlikely. If you would have read the post or/and have any shred of idea about development (I have btw) you would know that things like the numbers in the tooltips or large chunks of changelogs are generated automatically and processed. Nobody has time to write all this from hand!
Since a lot of you seem to be on this bandwagon, let me point something out to you that may shock you.
So by calling it a bug they're trying to divert the blame away from themselves?
Personally it seems like a case of spoilt child syndrome with a hint of no real life experience.
(P.S. It's amazing to see how much this forum has declined in only a month, they make the game easier and it brings out even more whiners and noobs who can't figure it out, at least before when it was hard it discouraged a lot of bad players)
The game is essentially just a big database, so a simple test with an excell spreadsheet or even a piece of paper would show to you how it is possible. The developers entered in data wrong, which is a bug in the database. The people that create the patch notes pulled their information from the same database that had the incorrect numbers.
To test this do the following:
Write a number on a piece of paper
Give the number to a friend and have them write a sentance with the number.
Now what happens if realize you wanted to write 42 instead of 43? Did you make a mistake? Is your friend lying? Are you slapping your friend in the face because you told him to change it to 42 because that is what you meant? Did you lie to your friend? Did you slap him in the face by saying you made a mistake?
Its funny how Blizzard says its a bug, says they made a mistake, explained how it really should be. And yet people with no proof of a lie claim it is a lie. Or that Blizzard doesn't know what bug means and is changing the english language in order to fool the community.
There are plenty of things to criticise Diablo 3 and Blizzard about, but doing so over this just shows that the true intention is to troll rather then criticize.
they pay their bills and make their investors happy
Now if they touch WDs with stuff like this...* (raises and shakes fist)
*Can they at least feel strong for 3 months!?
Then basically they're just incompetent. If the person behind the changes didn't notice that the ability was doing 1500% instead of the intended 300%, and as a result call it a 'bug', then yeah, there's no other logical explanation.
I'd have more respect for a developer that simply states, "Oops, we made it way too powerful. Our bad, we'll fix it" over one that sayd, "The ability that says it does 1500% damage is actually doing 1500% damage and that's a bug that needs to be fixed."
IMO, if an ability states it does 1500% damage and it actually does 1500% damage, that is not a bug. Overtuned? sure. Overpowered? Definitely. But, it's doing what it says it's supposed to be doing and just needs to be toned down and brought in line. However, if it said it was supposed to do 300% damage and was instead doing 1500%, then that would be a bug and I would understand it being called as such.
As it stands, I don't appreciate Blizzard calling this a bug. They're adjusting a (very) overpowered ability, not fixing an unintentional bug. It may have been unintentional for the ability to be as powerful as it is, but this was not the result of a bug but rather an oversight.
I read how they "explained" it's a bug. To me, that's just more insulting to people. I simply don't understand why they couldn't have come out and said, "We made ToC way too powerful. Our bad, we'll be reducing it's power to be more in line with where we originally intended it come next patch" That I would have been fine with.
Let me also just say, I don't even play a DH. I have a 60 DH, but I sold all her gear so she's pretty much naked. This change means nothing to me. But saying that when the patch notes and tooltip of the ability state it does 1500% damage and it in fact does 1500% damage and then try to call that a bug a week and a half after the patch goes live? I call BS on that. Again, whoever was adjusting the numbers should have instantly realized 1500 is not 300, or they're incredibly incompetent and needs to find new employment. Even if by some chance they legitimately didn't notice at first, they should have immediately noticed it after the patch went live and a hotfix within 24 hours would have been okay. No, they waited nearly 2 weeks, then come to everyone and say, "ToC is way too powerful, but not because we made it like that but rather due to an unforeseeable bug. We're fixing this with the next patch". Yup, *cough* BS.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
Those two things mean the same thing when talking about Video games. Who do you think creates the code that causes bugs? Entering the wrong value is a bug. It doesn't matter what an ability says it does and what an ability actually does. What matters is that a developer entered the wrong value and thus created a bug.
The tooltip for Trail of Cinders automatically pulls its value from the incorrectly entered value, so it will always reflect the damage it actually does. You are just out for a witch hunt and looking to crucify Blizzard every semantics. If you don't like Blizzard, Diablo 3 and the direction they are taking the Franchise that is fine. But there is no reason to rant over something that is a bug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug
I understand that not every can be computer savy and might not understand the terms used in regards to Computer/Video games. But multiple people, including Blizzard, has clearly explainded how and why it is a bug.
Diablo 3, the game, is the computer program. The variable that holds the numerical value for Trail of Cinders is a part of that computer program. Yes the skill does exactly what it states it does, but that doesn't mean that the value entered is correct. An incorrect value is a bug.
You picked out a few words to show how it is not a bug while ignoring the words that state mistakes that produce incorrect or unexpected results are considered bugs. A developer entering the wrong value for a skill is a mistake that produced an unexpected result because it wasn't supposed to do that much damage.
A developer entered the wrong value for how much Damage Trail of cinders does. How is that not a bug? When talking to your project lead that something feels wrong and the find out that it is because of an incorrect value for a line of code, how is that not a bug? What do you call a line of code that is incorrect and giving an unintended effect?
If it truly wasn't their intention to make it 1500% damage, you'd be absolutely correct. I however am saying their intention was to make it 1500% damage. They never originally intended to make it 300%, they're just saying that now to save face. However, they didn't realize exactly how powerful 1500% damage over a few seconds would be at the time and since they now realize that 1500% is way overpowered. So, they are now coming out and stating, 'we never intended it to do 1500% damage. that's a bug' when in reality, it's not a bug, they just overcompensated with the ability. Hence, they are intentionally misleading the community by calling it an unintentional bug when it is nothing of the sort. I believe this is to keep the community outcry to a minimum. 'Bug fix' sounds a lot better than 'nerf', but this is also what I find personally insulting. The community can be a very mature group of individuals, there's no reason to mislead them.
Let me put it another way. For example, lets say they intended for a reasonably well geared DH to be able to kill an elite pack in 20 seconds. They adjusted ToC to 1500%, along with tweaking other skills, tested it a bit and within their testing, they were killing elite packs within approximately 20 seconds. It looked good, so they patched it in. However, once it went live, they found DHs killing elite packs in 10 seconds. They notice the main cause is ToC doing way more damage than they intended because they didn't understand exactly how much 1500% over a few seconds impacted their killing power. They realize that ToC needs to be nerfed, but instead of calling it a nerf, they're claiming it's too powerful 'due to a bug' and is instead needs to be 'fixed'. They didn't intend it to allow DH to kill so efficiently, that much is clear. In that respect, the fast killing is unintended. This however is not a bug. There's a difference.
That was just an example to express my point. If you still believe that it's a bug, I can't change your mind. We have very different opinions on what constitutes a bug then I guess. The ability was overtuned. Overtuning an ability does not constitute a bug in my eyes. Calling it a bug is insulting. If it actually is a bug, then it's the result incompetence on a grand scale. People that incompetent shouldn't be the ones making adjustments to the game period.
It pretty much boils down to this:
If it really wasn't a bug but are calling it one to keep community outcry low, then they are just insulting the people that know better. Especially when they easily could have just come out and stated they overcompensating on an ability and it needs to be brought in line. It happens, most people understand that.
If it actually is a bug, as many of you here are arguing it is by tossing around definitions of what actually defines a bug, then it simply shows their incompetence on their own patching process. It was simply too obvious to not notice before the patch went live. It was extremely obvious to notice after the patch went live. It was simply too easy to hotfix immediately after noticing. That's all under the assumption that it was in fact, an unintended bug. Yet for some reason it took Blizzard 2 weeks before "noticing" this "bug" and yet instead of fixing such a gross miscalculation caused by a "bug" (that they are implying it is) they are allowing it to thrive until the next official patch. Sorry, I guess I'm just too stubborn to buy into that BS.
I respect blizzard and I enjoy playing Diablo 3. However, Blizzard knows that D3 is in a pretty rough spot right now. They are going out of their way to ensure the players that are still playing remain happy and are doing everything in their power to bring those people that left back into the fold. Turning around in 2 weeks after a patch and nerfing an ability that really does require it is a fine line to walk. When people start crying nerf, they risk the possibility of losing people still playing as well as risk scaring those that are contemplating coming back away. So, they call it a 'bug fix' in an attempt to alleviate that. (the only other option being to allow ToC to remain in game as it is, which is pretty much unacceptable).
I understand what they did and why they did it. I don't respect it though or acknowledge that it was necessary.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
Almost all comptuer bugs are the result of Human error. Why? Because humans are the one that write computer code. Some computer bugs are the result of the compiler which isn't directly related to human error.
Actually you're just misrepresenting their audience. Silly poster, you need to get a life.