I predict that there will be a civil war in heaven; One side being led by Tryeal and the other side being led by Inarius. Expect to see the forces of chaos being allied with inarius and his loyal angels, and mankind allied with Tyreal and his angels.
Well, the Sin War books really go into how two-faced the factions of heaven are. So, since that is official lore I say, why not? It would be interesting to see how they pull it off though if we do. I bet they will drop a bombshell on us at the end of D3 to leave heaven for the expansion.
Exactly. I think there are just far too many people new to the Diablo world that don't understand what Angels actually are in that world. It seems like it should almost be a requirement to read the Sin War books before being allowed to play DIII. Or perhaps they will just have a summation of the Sin War during the cinematic that will play when you first open the game, and you can't skip it the first time you play either.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
I'm dead certain we'll be fighting at least one angel in this game. Whether that be a pissed Imperius or a host of angels I don't know though.
I completely agree. I assume that we'll fight a few angels throughout the game, and most likely only 1 or 2 Archangels. It sure would be an ingenious plot of Heaven, to have had Tyrael destroy the Worldstone so that Heaven can destroy Sanctuary. But that brings up the same question asked about the forces of Hell. Why haven't the forces of Heaven invaded yet?
Sure makes the mind wonder what Blizzard is going to pull out of their hat.
Man, what if DIII is about defeating Heaven with the aid of Hell, and the expansion is about defeating Diablo and his brothers. Or better yet, one expansion per brother!! It would sure put a twist on how we have all been thinking about the storyline.
What does the destruction of the Worldstone have to do with allowing angels to enter Sanctuary? As far as I recall in the Sin War books they entered Sanctuary while the Worldstone was intact and controlled by Inarius.
I could be wrong though, I haven't kept up too much on the DIII site.
Second, the angels don't 'hate' humans and want them dead. Some of the angels may be in the 'kill the humans' camp but only because they view them as blasphemy that shouldn't exist in the first place, not because they feel hate which is a human emotion.
I also don't know where the idea of Tyrael being a rogue angel came from. It's been a while since I played DII and followed the story of it, or DI for that matter. Isn't he just part of the Angris council that believes that humans should be allowed to live to determine whether they will turn completely to the side of evil, in which case they should be exterminated, or if humans will turn to order and law?
Excuse my transgressions if I missed some lore from the end of the Sin War books. Feel free to clear up any errors I made.
As far as my opinion on the debate over fighting angels... Going to 'heaven' to fight them would probably be out of the picture considering that they are beings of order. That means heaven would probably be a very boring place to spend much time in in game. I can see fighting an angel or two though, that would be interesting (no blood though, they just explode into light).
However, if hell found a way to infiltrate heaven and cause a little chaos behind the pearly gates I could see a burning heaven that's coming apart at the seams being an interesting act.
Another interesting scenario in my mind would be if the destruction of the Worldstone scattered fragments across the world (which enhance magical ability) and you had to help defend a city, and eliminate a mage who is neither allied with heaven nor hell. But that would belong in another thread, wouldn't it?
What does the destruction of the Worldstone have to do with allowing angels to enter Sanctuary? As far as I recall in the Sin War books they entered Sanctuary while the Worldstone was intact and controlled by Inarius.
Well, what exactly the Worldstone did is a bit unclear. Supposedly it kept Heaven and Hell out, but like you pointed out, some of them did enter Sanctuary while it was still intact.
Quote from "DeVere" »
I could be wrong though, I haven't kept up too much on the DIII site.
Nothing new there. The issues come from fan speculation mostly.
Quote from "DeVere" »
I also don't know where the idea of Tyrael being a rogue angel came from. It's been a while since I played DII and followed the story of it, or DI for that matter. Isn't he just part of the Angris council that believes that humans should be allowed to live to determine whether they will turn completely to the side of evil, in which case they should be exterminated, or if humans will turn to order and law?
It's a popularly held theory that Tyrael will go rogue/evil in D3 either because he's always been evil, or because the Worldstone exploding infusing him with Baal's corruption.
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It seems like it should almost be a requirement to read the Sin War books before being allowed to play DIII.
euhhh not a good idea !! I never see a game where you must read a story book before to understand. A game always be an interactive story, we can't force players to read before playing, it's the worst idea I heard. It sure d3 will be playable right after you bought, no pre-requirment.
I think he was just making the point that there is a lot most people don't know about the World of Sanctuary. Anything in the game will be explained, but you can only be exposed to so much in a game. Just like a movie. Books can usually go into a lot more detail. They would never make it so you had no clue as to what's going on if you didn't read the book, but you might understand or be able to appreciate certain things more if you had read the book.....
Btw. This thread has inspired me to read the Sin War book(s?). I'm going to get it asap.
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"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I knew nothing about their origin or their motives. And I knew absolutely nothing about Heaven and the complex story about Sanctuarys creation and history.
@Emil x2: Exactly! Thank you.
@Don: Good call. I'm heading over to Amazon! Whoa 8!!?? I've been missing out on so much...Bring on the lore!
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"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
If angels are a foe, the story will need to explain it, and I think it will take a big part of the game...:(
And the game is named "diablo" not "god" or "deity".
And the game is named "diablo" not "god" or "deity".
Maybe the expansion will be named God?
I think you're right though. For any player who hasn't read the books or read about the backstory on forums, i.e almost all, the jump from killing Diablo in D2 to fighting angels is quite big. While most of us wouldn't frown all to much, or frown at all, Blizzard needs to ease this into the minds of the player base. Which will probably take a while, certainly a few acts.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Actually, I think the jump from fighting demons to angels (and demons?) could be done pretty easily over the course of a couple of 2-3 minute cutscenes. (Though, I wouldn't object to blizzard making much longer cutscenes to explain it :))
They could have Cain explain it during the cutscenes as the worldstone was destroyed which once again brought Sanctuary and its inhabitants to the attention of the Angris council. Realizing how close humanity had come to being controlled once again by the denizens of hell the angels decided to intervene.
You wouldn't need to name the game anything else to fight angels. The game is named Diablo but in DI and DII you fight other foes, not just Diablo. Also, there's no 'god' or even 'devil' in sanctuary, it's the three Prime Evils, and the Angris Council. At least we know heaven and hell aren't fascist.
Considering the fact that in the books most of the demons work through manipulating humans I think it would be interesting to devote an act to fighting both demons and the humans that had turned to their side. AKA the Triune. That would kind of destroy the whole bit where you're just killing demons though and maybe Jay Wilson wouldn't want his daughter playing it anymore.
Last thing, anyone else notice that the spell check on here thinks Diablo is spelled wrong?
If angels are a foe, the story will need to explain it, and I think it will take a big part of the game...:(
And the game is named "diablo" not "god" or "deity".
That's why this part of it could be in an expansion. Diablo 2's main story revolved around diablo, but the expansion was all about stopping Baal cause diablo was toast. Just because the game is called diablo doesn't mean every part of it has to do with the Diablo character. I think now we're getting deeper into the world of sanctuary.Realizing that there is more evil than just DIABLO. Since the series takes place in the same world "Sanctuary" it makes sense to keep the title the same...Plus the fact that it's a series. Changing the name would be silly. We're not even sure what the story for the game is yet. I'm sure the focus will remain on killing demons, so no worries there. These are just thoughts, ideas, "SPECULATION."
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"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I think you're right though. For any player who hasn't read the books or read about the backstory on forums, i.e almost all, the jump from killing Diablo in D2 to fighting angels is quite big. While most of us wouldn't frown all to much, or frown at all, Blizzard needs to ease this into the minds of the player base. Which will probably take a while, certainly a few acts.
I don't think it'd be too big of a leap. A lot can be said in videos and NPC dialogue. Even quest items could explain (books, scrolls). I just really hope this game plunges deep into the story. But as you said it might take an act or two. Expansion??!? Plus they could just throw hints or things leading up to this throughout the game...I haven't read the books (yet!) and I don't have any trouble in seeing how we could go from fighting diablo to fighting angels. Keep in mind, a single action by one character could flip things upside down.
imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_guillotine I think it would be the easiest way to make a fight against Imperius and a group of corrupted angels that separated from the forces of Heaven rather than Heaven of Sanctuary itself, then just twist them a bit to look like fallen angels (instead of bright light, make them glow dark red?).
That's what I was thinking. Makes me want to draw up something. I'll start working on that. This whole fallen angels, plot twist thing has gotten me excited about D3 again....We just don't know if any of this will really happen...I can still hope though At least it gives me something to do between now and D3's release.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I think it would be the easiest way to make a fight against Imperius and a group of corrupted angels that separated from the forces of Heaven rather than Heaven of Sanctuary itself, then just twist them a bit to look like fallen angels (instead of bright light, make them glow dark red?).
That's what I was thinking. Makes me want to draw up something. I'll start working on that. This whole fallen angels, plot twist thing has gotten me excited about D3 again....We just don't know if any of this will really happen...I can still hope though At least it gives me something to do between now and D3's release.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
Originally Posted by Don_guillotine
I think it would be the easiest way to make a fight against Imperius and a group of corrupted angels that separated from the forces of Heaven rather than Heaven of Sanctuary itself, then just twist them a bit to look like fallen angels (instead of bright light, make them glow dark red?).
I think instead of fighting Imperius and a group of corrupted angels it might be easier to set it up as an angel from the original group to bump nasties with the demons managed to escape from Lilith's treachery and has returned from hiding to try to take over Sanctuary or has joined forces with the demons again in order to attempt to destroy all of Sanctuary.
As far as the the fallen angel look of having a dark red glow... I don't think there's any precedent in the Diablo universe for angels changing color depending on their mood or alignment. I think it would be cooler to fight a glowing white angel. As others have said, it wouldn't be that hard to make them threatening and not appear like 'good guys'. I mean, hell, Tyrael can look menacing in fan art without having a voice or anything:
http://tinyurl.com/ydv8oy4 - a little bit egyptianesque, not too menacing I guess. But I think they could do it.
So, just a few complications with fighting Heaven.
The Monk (and any Paladin NPCs) would lose their "blessing" and thus their holy magic if they were to turn against Heaven.
Also, the idea that we would be fighting humans aligned with Heaven/Hell makes sense because of the Occultus enemies we see already.
So, what if a corrupted/fascist/nationalist/Nazi heaven blesses everyone who joins the church/paladin-hood as a type of "Aryan race" and plans to exterminate Sanctuary of all non-loyal/non-religious humans.
What if that Nazi heaven revives Diablo on a treaty that they will exterminate all non-loyal humans.
That would pit us against angels AND humans AND demons.
Maybe Tyrael disagrees and sides with humanity and is able to restore the Monk's abilities with a quest or something.
I like the idea of rogue angels assisting the humans.
Also, what if the final act is a heaven/hell hybrid with angels and demons?
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Diablo fans deserve a downloadable version of the Blizzcon D3 demo.
So, just a few complications with fighting Heaven.
The Monk (and any Paladin NPCs) would lose their "blessing" and thus their holy magic if they were to turn against Heaven.
Not necessarily. There's nothing to suggest blessings must be maintained by Heaven once given to the Paladin. It could well be that, in an eventual war with Heaven, there will be no new Paladin's made (if they stand on humanity's side), but those who are already Paladins retain their gifts.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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yeah and plus, the heavens didn't have any idea about Sanctuary for a while (Sin War), and I'm inclined to believe that paladins and monks did exist in their absence, thus making your argument about losing your "blessing" or ability to cast magic or whatever irrelevant.
Exactly. I think there are just far too many people new to the Diablo world that don't understand what Angels actually are in that world. It seems like it should almost be a requirement to read the Sin War books before being allowed to play DIII. Or perhaps they will just have a summation of the Sin War during the cinematic that will play when you first open the game, and you can't skip it the first time you play either.
I completely agree. I assume that we'll fight a few angels throughout the game, and most likely only 1 or 2 Archangels. It sure would be an ingenious plot of Heaven, to have had Tyrael destroy the Worldstone so that Heaven can destroy Sanctuary. But that brings up the same question asked about the forces of Hell. Why haven't the forces of Heaven invaded yet?
Sure makes the mind wonder what Blizzard is going to pull out of their hat.
Man, what if DIII is about defeating Heaven with the aid of Hell, and the expansion is about defeating Diablo and his brothers. Or better yet, one expansion per brother!! It would sure put a twist on how we have all been thinking about the storyline.
What does the destruction of the Worldstone have to do with allowing angels to enter Sanctuary? As far as I recall in the Sin War books they entered Sanctuary while the Worldstone was intact and controlled by Inarius.
I could be wrong though, I haven't kept up too much on the DIII site.
Second, the angels don't 'hate' humans and want them dead. Some of the angels may be in the 'kill the humans' camp but only because they view them as blasphemy that shouldn't exist in the first place, not because they feel hate which is a human emotion.
I also don't know where the idea of Tyrael being a rogue angel came from. It's been a while since I played DII and followed the story of it, or DI for that matter. Isn't he just part of the Angris council that believes that humans should be allowed to live to determine whether they will turn completely to the side of evil, in which case they should be exterminated, or if humans will turn to order and law?
Excuse my transgressions if I missed some lore from the end of the Sin War books. Feel free to clear up any errors I made.
As far as my opinion on the debate over fighting angels... Going to 'heaven' to fight them would probably be out of the picture considering that they are beings of order. That means heaven would probably be a very boring place to spend much time in in game. I can see fighting an angel or two though, that would be interesting (no blood though, they just explode into light).
However, if hell found a way to infiltrate heaven and cause a little chaos behind the pearly gates I could see a burning heaven that's coming apart at the seams being an interesting act.
Another interesting scenario in my mind would be if the destruction of the Worldstone scattered fragments across the world (which enhance magical ability) and you had to help defend a city, and eliminate a mage who is neither allied with heaven nor hell. But that would belong in another thread, wouldn't it?
Nothing new there. The issues come from fan speculation mostly.
It's a popularly held theory that Tyrael will go rogue/evil in D3 either because he's always been evil, or because the Worldstone exploding infusing him with Baal's corruption.
euhhh not a good idea !! I never see a game where you must read a story book before to understand. A game always be an interactive story, we can't force players to read before playing, it's the worst idea I heard. It sure d3 will be playable right after you bought, no pre-requirment.
Btw. This thread has inspired me to read the Sin War book(s?). I'm going to get it asap.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
@Emil x2: Exactly! Thank you.
@Don: Good call. I'm heading over to Amazon! Whoa 8!!?? I've been missing out on so much...Bring on the lore!
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
If angels are a foe, the story will need to explain it, and I think it will take a big part of the game...:(
And the game is named "diablo" not "god" or "deity".
I think you're right though. For any player who hasn't read the books or read about the backstory on forums, i.e almost all, the jump from killing Diablo in D2 to fighting angels is quite big. While most of us wouldn't frown all to much, or frown at all, Blizzard needs to ease this into the minds of the player base. Which will probably take a while, certainly a few acts.
They could have Cain explain it during the cutscenes as the worldstone was destroyed which once again brought Sanctuary and its inhabitants to the attention of the Angris council. Realizing how close humanity had come to being controlled once again by the denizens of hell the angels decided to intervene.
You wouldn't need to name the game anything else to fight angels. The game is named Diablo but in DI and DII you fight other foes, not just Diablo. Also, there's no 'god' or even 'devil' in sanctuary, it's the three Prime Evils, and the Angris Council. At least we know heaven and hell aren't fascist.
Considering the fact that in the books most of the demons work through manipulating humans I think it would be interesting to devote an act to fighting both demons and the humans that had turned to their side. AKA the Triune. That would kind of destroy the whole bit where you're just killing demons though and maybe Jay Wilson wouldn't want his daughter playing it anymore.
Last thing, anyone else notice that the spell check on here thinks Diablo is spelled wrong?
That's why this part of it could be in an expansion. Diablo 2's main story revolved around diablo, but the expansion was all about stopping Baal cause diablo was toast. Just because the game is called diablo doesn't mean every part of it has to do with the Diablo character. I think now we're getting deeper into the world of sanctuary.Realizing that there is more evil than just DIABLO. Since the series takes place in the same world "Sanctuary" it makes sense to keep the title the same...Plus the fact that it's a series. Changing the name would be silly. We're not even sure what the story for the game is yet. I'm sure the focus will remain on killing demons, so no worries there. These are just thoughts, ideas, "SPECULATION."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I don't think it'd be too big of a leap. A lot can be said in videos and NPC dialogue. Even quest items could explain (books, scrolls). I just really hope this game plunges deep into the story. But as you said it might take an act or two. Expansion??!? Plus they could just throw hints or things leading up to this throughout the game...I haven't read the books (yet!) and I don't have any trouble in seeing how we could go from fighting diablo to fighting angels. Keep in mind, a single action by one character could flip things upside down.
imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_guillotine
I think it would be the easiest way to make a fight against Imperius and a group of corrupted angels that separated from the forces of Heaven rather than Heaven of Sanctuary itself, then just twist them a bit to look like fallen angels (instead of bright light, make them glow dark red?).
That's what I was thinking. Makes me want to draw up something. I'll start working on that. This whole fallen angels, plot twist thing has gotten me excited about D3 again....We just don't know if any of this will really happen...I can still hope though At least it gives me something to do between now and D3's release.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
That's what I was thinking. Makes me want to draw up something. I'll start working on that. This whole fallen angels, plot twist thing has gotten me excited about D3 again....We just don't know if any of this will really happen...I can still hope though At least it gives me something to do between now and D3's release.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I think instead of fighting Imperius and a group of corrupted angels it might be easier to set it up as an angel from the original group to bump nasties with the demons managed to escape from Lilith's treachery and has returned from hiding to try to take over Sanctuary or has joined forces with the demons again in order to attempt to destroy all of Sanctuary.
As far as the the fallen angel look of having a dark red glow... I don't think there's any precedent in the Diablo universe for angels changing color depending on their mood or alignment. I think it would be cooler to fight a glowing white angel. As others have said, it wouldn't be that hard to make them threatening and not appear like 'good guys'. I mean, hell, Tyrael can look menacing in fan art without having a voice or anything:
http://tinyurl.com/ydv8oy4 - a little bit egyptianesque, not too menacing I guess. But I think they could do it.
The Monk (and any Paladin NPCs) would lose their "blessing" and thus their holy magic if they were to turn against Heaven.
Also, the idea that we would be fighting humans aligned with Heaven/Hell makes sense because of the Occultus enemies we see already.
So, what if a corrupted/fascist/nationalist/Nazi heaven blesses everyone who joins the church/paladin-hood as a type of "Aryan race" and plans to exterminate Sanctuary of all non-loyal/non-religious humans.
What if that Nazi heaven revives Diablo on a treaty that they will exterminate all non-loyal humans.
That would pit us against angels AND humans AND demons.
Maybe Tyrael disagrees and sides with humanity and is able to restore the Monk's abilities with a quest or something.
I like the idea of rogue angels assisting the humans.
Also, what if the final act is a heaven/hell hybrid with angels and demons?
the monk believes in a 1001 gods so killing these angels wouldn't affect their standings with their gods.
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