I know that many people already suggested and talked about the rogue / thief / whatever class but i think it has some great potential when looking at it from a point of you that compares it to the other 3 already announced classes. What i mean is, that it could have many skills that can kill massively, allowing you to solo / coop the whole game.
I have a few ideas that can actually (i think) make a thief class kickass:
-First, obviously he should not and will not be named Rouge or Thief, it should have a special name that no other game had it before... I will leave that for blizz
-The thief should be smaller than the other classes, his neck is leaning forward and his face is barely seen. With items and nice gear you can have him wearing a cloak covering his head, face and whole body...
-He will probably use small melee weapons like: small swords, scimitars, daggers, or weapons like the assassin had in d2, blades and stuff... Im still not sure about ranged though.
-The thief will have a main skill that will make him fade, with every higher skill lvl the thief will be harder to spot. He will have another skill that will make his movement blurred, something like wind walk, or walking and leaving smoke behind him.
-With higher skill lvl he will have a trail of his own images on his tail as he is moving fast between the masses of enemies, those images will attack as much as they can and disapear, then reapear closer to the theif again... while he runs...
-Did i mention that he has to be really fast.
Ok so you come to a group of monsters, you start running towards them. Tey only spot you from a short distance because you are almost invisble, leaving them no time to react but to turn facing your direction. On approach, the thief will ''wind walk'' through the middle of the monster group hacking and slashing with his dual wielded scimitars, leaving a trail of smoke and his images behind him that chokes, posions, and attacks the enemies. After that most of the monsters will be poisoned so you kill a few with normal attacks ( maybe with chargeable attack skills) or you could wind walk to another side of the monster group and keep repeating that...
I know the image is crap but it can help me show you what i mean. The black sqaure is the thief, the dark red dots are the monsters, the red lines are the route of the wind walking skill, its the trail that he leaves behind him, and the bright red dots are points that he casted the wind walk at... So it looks like some kind of an appocalypse star which is pretty cool.... xD
-The thief should have a bonus when attacking from behind, that will encourage players to continiously wind walk behind targets, making the thief look like nothing but trails of smoke that can poison and kill anyone.
-Ofcourse we can add some sort of curses / diseases / poisons / bleeding wounds that monsters will get their hp drained over time.
-Maybe the ability to lay traps while wind walking, that if you can use the skill in the right time (leaving the traps in the middle of the mob clusters and stuff). the traps could be explosives, poison clouds, shocking, a ball full of 10 inch nails that explodes and blinds everyone, etc...
-Ranged weapons... Ok so, i saw some ideas about automatic crossbows which will be kinda realistic in d3 because its 20 years after d2 and there was something similar to gunpowder in d2 so... A thief could have a two handed or dual wielded crossbows, shooting fast, low range. The low range factor will enforce players to get close to their enemies, and to avoid getting hit when standing still and shooting (since you are not a tank, you are relativly small and can get f***** up pretty bad) you will have to use wind walk, which will again make it look cool... you will wind walk around your enemies and through them, leaving traps and spraying them with you automated crossbow from every direction.
Well, its kinda long but it could have been longer... I know it can sound like its really shallow you know, you can wind walk and hit... put some traps, then what?..... I think that the whole blinking / wind walking / invisble thing, and the fact that you must keep moving around your enemies, and the fact that you are fast and have cool skills with cool effects, and you are small, wearing a hood and a cloak with 2 swords or a crazy looking crossbow... I think that is enough for it to be a good class. And if Blizzard will actually make a class like this im sure it will have some elemnets that my suggestion contains, and im sure they will make him playble and enjoyable
thanks for reading, if you did that is.
Peace
EDITS:
-Well, balanced in terms of pvp could mean also that other classes have escape classes taht can help you avoid the thief hits and shoot him if you are a caster. Other skills for every class can be made which will kinda counter some of the stuff the thief can do, and also will have great use in pvm... You see, IF this class is created, it will be balanced into the game and not just thrown in it and creating unbalance.... Which is what probably happened on knight online, never plaid but they shurely aint blizzard.
@italfoca: You are right, and the idea of the 3 trees is good also but it should not allow players to focus on only one tree, so we wont have a new version of an assassin, and a lame JUST traps build etc...
I think that you will have to use wind walk (or other moving skills like blink or whatever you can think of) even if you wanna focus mostly on traps, maybe they can make it that you can lay traps only while wind walking? or on blink's impact point...
@Reform: Well, yes its going to be a super hero, like the wizard and the barb are on what we have seen so far. I think that the abilities i mentioned can be compared in their power to the wizard and the barb, and even the wd. I didnt really say it should be invisble, it will be hard to be seen... for monsters it will affect the distance that it takes them to be from you so they can see you, and for other people it will look as a faded character you know... Its NOT invisble, because i know invisble in pvp is kinda fucked up.
Well its a nice idea for a mmo but this sounds alot like an assassin of off knight online, they were super overpowered in pvp.
They will just disappear when near death and just run to town or worse, disappear and use a attack that does critical damage and run and disappear again.
Its a nice class but it needs to be much more balanced in terms of pvp
You are right. This is a nice idea. Still this class is very limited compered to the other 3 we have annouced.
Remenber every class have 3 selfsuficient skill trees. So every skill tree must give one or more ''survival tool''.
In your descrpt it seens that the only ''survival tool'' is the wind walk, and this fact enters in contradiction with D3 class design.
Maybe they could make a class with 3 trees, a Dagger/Stealth that use this wind walk skill, a Poison/Trap that use paralysing traps to stop his enemy and a Ranged that gives special ranged stunning/slow shoots.
Something like this..
Nice and detailed idea. But...we have to remember. We have a tank, summoner/caster, caster. We need an Archer purely bow there is none of that as of yet. The amazon bow skills in Diablo II weren't bad except for the freezing and burning ones, which quite honestly seemed like a sorcer's spells. Guided arrow was sweet, and can you imagine what multiple shot would look like in Diablo III? Anyways, a thief or rogue is all good and fun, and I'd love to have a trapper of some kind never boring; there's just a dire need for an archer and I'm not sure both could survive in the same world. By the way, can you imagine what the java skills would look like in Diablo III? Now that would be something worth watching...Lightning Fury ^^ with good old titan's!
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Einstein.
Spelling Rogue correctly would go vast distances towards making the class successful..
I think
THIS...omfg THIS
Forum fails ftw!!! I just wish I could have said it first.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I think you forgot to mention that with the Havok physics, a rouge-ranger type character will be able to pin targets to walls or other attackers with his/her arrows and bolts.
Agreed on the comment Ivaron. This is a very useful thread too guys. Let's give all the input we can so that if Bashiok comes around here he can get an idea of what the fans want. So, the question remains, what would make a Rogue-like character perfect. In most games rogues sneak up and have sneak attack AND MAD SPEED (assassin great example). So can we combine an assassin with an amazon and the final product would look like what? How do we make an archer not look like a spell caster. We could borrow some examples from Guild Wars. Archers have pets, great skills but not over done. Would an archer be the answer for big bosses? Being able to deal large amounts of damage to one single monster, or partial damage to a big group? In guild wars they're usually good for snaring and taking down single targets. Planting traps that will slow down monsters, burn them, poison them sounds nice to me. Picture this: A huge horde coming towards a party planting traps on spots you know for sure they'll be triggered so that when they get to them, they get slowed down or burned or damaged so that the rest of the group can organize and totally out flank the whole group. What we saw in the demo trailers were examples of Barbarian, Wizard and Witch Doctor with a full array of skills and equipment in normal mode act 1. The truth is when you first start taking on all those enemies will not look as easy, and have a trapper + ranger combination would be ideal to make the job of the tank and battery a lot easier. Truth is we'll start off with a damaged club and a hitting skill more than likely, having a trapper to make our lives easier would be awesome. Please critic as you seem fit.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Einstein.
I think you forgot to mention that with the Havok physics, a rouge-ranger type character will be able to pin targets to walls or other attackers with his/her arrows and bolts.
I really like everyone's arguments, it gives me even more ideas and stuff... Yes, with the Havoc physics arrows / bolts will have a whole new visual effect i think, and that would be cool.
I must say that i agree with some of you who said that a ranged character like the amazon can not come back, i think that is pretty obvious because it wont be anything special anymore.
If blizzard will make a ranged class in d3 im sure it wont be anything like the amazon, although i can imagine some kind of a jungle warrior, like a barbarian but from the area that the WD comes from... He will have different types of projectiles and cool survival skills using nature and terrain to his own benefit (i could make a new thread about this guy).
So for a ranged class in d3, its either gonna be something like a rogue or something like the amazon, but definitely nothing as we have seen before ( bow, arrows, shoot, kill).
It wasn't. I'm saying it now, because stealth in diablo is a terrible idea.
And why stealth in diablo is such a bad idea?
All I want is a new gameplay.
I don't want to the next classes is just a ranged archer that have like 10 differ elemental arrows as skill and a melee character with suportive stuff and some spells.
I want something we never saw in diablo's, like a stealth character. If the game insist to be more of the same it's gonna be lameful.
yea that class would be pretty sweet... but like Talic's Demise said, they really need to have a purely ranged character. Idk if an rpg can survive without one, and this class would be kind of similar :\ But idk, i guess we will have to wait until Blizzard reveals the next classes, which hopefully will be soon
To be perfectly honest, it is somewhat true that a ranged character, such as a rogue, would be harder to make feel visceral, which is what the Diablo III team is looking for with all the character classes. So, now you need to think of ways that makes a rogue's abilities super powerful to view, and super fun to play.
1. Obviously, arrows and bolts will have to take on the looks of the element of damage being dealt (cold arrow, fire arrow, etc.) just like in Diablo II. However, the effects will need to be much more spectacular and vibrant upon firing and impact. Maybe they will design arrow attacks radical enough to disperse Chain Lightning or even Firewalls and Blizzards upon striking (or any other magical effect your heart desires).
2. Havok Physics. Do you remember Half-Life 2? It had Havok Physics. Do you remember the crossbow on Half-Life 2? What did it do to people? Stuck them on walls or drove them into enemies behind them. That is exactly the kind of thing that would be awesome to witness in a faster pace. Diablo III should offer this badass effect maybe as a special skill itself, or maybe a passive skill that could have a chance to effect any arrow fired. This is simply an idea that would make a rogue class easily replayable.
I really like everyone's arguments, it gives me even more ideas and stuff... Yes, with the Havoc physics arrows / bolts will have a whole new visual effect i think, and that would be cool.
I must say that i agree with some of you who said that a ranged character like the amazon can not come back, i think that is pretty obvious because it wont be anything special anymore.
If blizzard will make a ranged class in d3 im sure it wont be anything like the amazon, although i can imagine some kind of a jungle warrior, like a barbarian but from the area that the WD comes from... He will have different types of projectiles and cool survival skills using nature and terrain to his own benefit (i could make a new thread about this guy).
So for a ranged class in d3, its either gonna be something like a rogue or something like the amazon, but definitely nothing as we have seen before ( bow, arrows, shoot, kill).
Demon Slayer?
Valhensing like, adaptated to the diablo universe?
I have a few ideas that can actually (i think) make a thief class kickass:
-First, obviously he should not and will not be named Rouge or Thief, it should have a special name that no other game had it before... I will leave that for blizz
-The thief should be smaller than the other classes, his neck is leaning forward and his face is barely seen. With items and nice gear you can have him wearing a cloak covering his head, face and whole body...
-He will probably use small melee weapons like: small swords, scimitars, daggers, or weapons like the assassin had in d2, blades and stuff... Im still not sure about ranged though.
-The thief will have a main skill that will make him fade, with every higher skill lvl the thief will be harder to spot. He will have another skill that will make his movement blurred, something like wind walk, or walking and leaving smoke behind him.
-With higher skill lvl he will have a trail of his own images on his tail as he is moving fast between the masses of enemies, those images will attack as much as they can and disapear, then reapear closer to the theif again... while he runs...
-Did i mention that he has to be really fast.
Ok so you come to a group of monsters, you start running towards them. Tey only spot you from a short distance because you are almost invisble, leaving them no time to react but to turn facing your direction. On approach, the thief will ''wind walk'' through the middle of the monster group hacking and slashing with his dual wielded scimitars, leaving a trail of smoke and his images behind him that chokes, posions, and attacks the enemies. After that most of the monsters will be poisoned so you kill a few with normal attacks ( maybe with chargeable attack skills) or you could wind walk to another side of the monster group and keep repeating that...
I know the image is crap but it can help me show you what i mean. The black sqaure is the thief, the dark red dots are the monsters, the red lines are the route of the wind walking skill, its the trail that he leaves behind him, and the bright red dots are points that he casted the wind walk at... So it looks like some kind of an appocalypse star which is pretty cool.... xD
-The thief should have a bonus when attacking from behind, that will encourage players to continiously wind walk behind targets, making the thief look like nothing but trails of smoke that can poison and kill anyone.
-Ofcourse we can add some sort of curses / diseases / poisons / bleeding wounds that monsters will get their hp drained over time.
-Maybe the ability to lay traps while wind walking, that if you can use the skill in the right time (leaving the traps in the middle of the mob clusters and stuff). the traps could be explosives, poison clouds, shocking, a ball full of 10 inch nails that explodes and blinds everyone, etc...
-Ranged weapons... Ok so, i saw some ideas about automatic crossbows which will be kinda realistic in d3 because its 20 years after d2 and there was something similar to gunpowder in d2 so... A thief could have a two handed or dual wielded crossbows, shooting fast, low range. The low range factor will enforce players to get close to their enemies, and to avoid getting hit when standing still and shooting (since you are not a tank, you are relativly small and can get f***** up pretty bad) you will have to use wind walk, which will again make it look cool... you will wind walk around your enemies and through them, leaving traps and spraying them with you automated crossbow from every direction.
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Well, its kinda long but it could have been longer... I know it can sound like its really shallow you know, you can wind walk and hit... put some traps, then what?..... I think that the whole blinking / wind walking / invisble thing, and the fact that you must keep moving around your enemies, and the fact that you are fast and have cool skills with cool effects, and you are small, wearing a hood and a cloak with 2 swords or a crazy looking crossbow... I think that is enough for it to be a good class. And if Blizzard will actually make a class like this im sure it will have some elemnets that my suggestion contains, and im sure they will make him playble and enjoyable
thanks for reading, if you did that is.
Peace
EDITS:
-Well, balanced in terms of pvp could mean also that other classes have escape classes taht can help you avoid the thief hits and shoot him if you are a caster. Other skills for every class can be made which will kinda counter some of the stuff the thief can do, and also will have great use in pvm... You see, IF this class is created, it will be balanced into the game and not just thrown in it and creating unbalance.... Which is what probably happened on knight online, never plaid but they shurely aint blizzard.
@italfoca: You are right, and the idea of the 3 trees is good also but it should not allow players to focus on only one tree, so we wont have a new version of an assassin, and a lame JUST traps build etc...
I think that you will have to use wind walk (or other moving skills like blink or whatever you can think of) even if you wanna focus mostly on traps, maybe they can make it that you can lay traps only while wind walking? or on blink's impact point...
@Reform: Well, yes its going to be a super hero, like the wizard and the barb are on what we have seen so far. I think that the abilities i mentioned can be compared in their power to the wizard and the barb, and even the wd. I didnt really say it should be invisble, it will be hard to be seen... for monsters it will affect the distance that it takes them to be from you so they can see you, and for other people it will look as a faded character you know... Its NOT invisble, because i know invisble in pvp is kinda fucked up.
They will just disappear when near death and just run to town or worse, disappear and use a attack that does critical damage and run and disappear again.
Its a nice class but it needs to be much more balanced in terms of pvp
Remenber every class have 3 selfsuficient skill trees. So every skill tree must give one or more ''survival tool''.
In your descrpt it seens that the only ''survival tool'' is the wind walk, and this fact enters in contradiction with D3 class design.
Maybe they could make a class with 3 trees, a Dagger/Stealth that use this wind walk skill, a Poison/Trap that use paralysing traps to stop his enemy and a Ranged that gives special ranged stunning/slow shoots.
Something like this..
I think
Maybe your right, maybe your not... who knows!
xD
Edit: it was just a typo, i spelled it right later in the text -.- Why dont you comment on what i said instead of just pointing out mistakes?
THIS...omfg THIS
Forum fails ftw!!! I just wish I could have said it first.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
ohhhhh that shit would be cool in D3
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Ok when was that ever said by a dev?
I must say that i agree with some of you who said that a ranged character like the amazon can not come back, i think that is pretty obvious because it wont be anything special anymore.
If blizzard will make a ranged class in d3 im sure it wont be anything like the amazon, although i can imagine some kind of a jungle warrior, like a barbarian but from the area that the WD comes from... He will have different types of projectiles and cool survival skills using nature and terrain to his own benefit (i could make a new thread about this guy).
So for a ranged class in d3, its either gonna be something like a rogue or something like the amazon, but definitely nothing as we have seen before ( bow, arrows, shoot, kill).
It wasn't. I'm saying it now, because stealth in diablo is a terrible idea.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
And why stealth in diablo is such a bad idea?
All I want is a new gameplay.
I don't want to the next classes is just a ranged archer that have like 10 differ elemental arrows as skill and a melee character with suportive stuff and some spells.
I want something we never saw in diablo's, like a stealth character. If the game insist to be more of the same it's gonna be lameful.
1. Obviously, arrows and bolts will have to take on the looks of the element of damage being dealt (cold arrow, fire arrow, etc.) just like in Diablo II. However, the effects will need to be much more spectacular and vibrant upon firing and impact. Maybe they will design arrow attacks radical enough to disperse Chain Lightning or even Firewalls and Blizzards upon striking (or any other magical effect your heart desires).
2. Havok Physics. Do you remember Half-Life 2? It had Havok Physics. Do you remember the crossbow on Half-Life 2? What did it do to people? Stuck them on walls or drove them into enemies behind them. That is exactly the kind of thing that would be awesome to witness in a faster pace. Diablo III should offer this badass effect maybe as a special skill itself, or maybe a passive skill that could have a chance to effect any arrow fired. This is simply an idea that would make a rogue class easily replayable.
Demon Slayer?
Valhensing like, adaptated to the diablo universe?
That would be too lame.
Imagine, a special fighter trained in combat against the forces of evil, but ranged. Sort of a paladin armed with a crossbow (?)