Perhaps they are just leaders in seperate contexts. What I like about the first Diablo manual is all the monsters it lists, it says whom they serve under. And it seemed like Baal's minions would definitely be on the frontline of any assault in an all out battle.
But yeah, I was just under the impression at least that Mephisto was the leader since he was the oldest and since Hatred seemed like the initial seed in sowing evil. But you could very well argue that it is fear or terror that comes first. Then destruction is just the inevitable after math of hatred and terror, or mopping up, so to speak.
The Dark Lords of Hell Baal, Lord of Destruction (Excidium) The soldiers of Baal seek the undoing of the universe. They strive for ultimate disorder and destruction, and to this end covet the destruction of all they behold. Order is abhorrence to them and these creatures are the manifestation of the forces of chaos. Diablo, Lord of Terror (Metus) Using illusion and fear as their greatest weapons, the attendants to Diablo are formidable adversaries. They prefer to wait for their opponent to display a moment of weakness before they attack. Equally dangerous in the dark or in your dreams, they are the fears of man made flesh by Diablo’s will. These nightmares lurk at the edges of mortal perception from the moment that you take your first breath - and they long to be with you when your take your last. Mephisto, the Lord of Hatred (Odium) The legions of Mephisto are driven by a hatred of all living things - especially those who are pure of heart. He counts as minions both the walking dead, who forever seek vengeance upon the living, as well as a host of demonically corrupted creatures whose twisted limbs and misshapen bodies leave them in eternal agony and rage.
a very good read indeed
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Baal, Lord of Destruction (Excidium) The soldiers of Baal seek the undoing of the universe. They strive for ultimate disorder and destruction, and to this end covet the destruction of all they behold. Order is abhorrence to them and these creatures are the manifestation of the forces of chaos.
Baal, Lord of Destruction (Excidium) The soldiers of Baal seek the undoing of the universe. They strive for ultimate disorder and destruction, and to this end covet the destruction of all they behold. Order is abhorrence to them and these creatures are the manifestation of the forces of chaos.
Diablo, Lord of Terror (Metus) Using illusion and fear as their greatest weapons, the attendants to Diablo are formidable adversaries. They prefer to wait for their opponent to display a moment of weakness before they attack. Equally dangerous in the dark or in your dreams, they are the fears of man made flesh by Diablo’s will. These nightmares lurk at the edges of mortal perception from the moment that you take your first breath - and they long to be with you when your take your last.
Mephisto, the Lord of Hatred (Odium) The legions of Mephisto are driven by a hatred of all living things - especially those who are pure of heart. He counts as minions both the walking dead, who forever seek vengeance upon the living, as well as a host of demonically corrupted creatures whose twisted limbs and misshapen bodies leave them in eternal agony and rage.
a very good read indeed
While it is interesting how different Prime Evils use their own minions, it seems for the most part they all still rely on brute force above all else.
I wouldn't mind seeing some monsters in the next game that can attack you mentally. Either by making everything around you suddenly go black, or upside down, or just anything else that might disorient you.
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Lets just say that by pattern time I refettr to a state when I am out of it. Im probably wishg to go to sleep but unable to do so due to excessive amounts of homework that I procrastinated10. So, typos, loud remarks (I can explain that one but I dont think you care), no sense, and occassional references to Eating Pattern are expected...
here is the text actually in the manual, i would post the actually pages but they are in PDF and i too noob to figure it out
the full manual is about 12000kb, too big for an attachment.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
not need proof. But the text is crap. explain why somebody wold seek destction of evreything?
oh ok then, yeh it does kinda seem weird.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Just to try and clear up the whole Nephalem thing...
Siaynoq: However, if they were so powerful and revered by both sides of the conflict, what happened to them? Cause I think they may have been closer to a race than just a select few.
The Nephalem are angel demon hybrids with great power created by Inarius to worship him in Sanctuary. They lost their power over time due to the construction of the Worldstone by Inarius, out of jealousy of their powers. The Nephalem eventually become the humans of Sanctuary.
I'm assuming The Ancients are sort of frozen in time. So they are either complete Nephalem or watered down and not completely human.
He never asks him to come. I figured Marius followed him truly out of apathy for his own existence. In other words, he figured, "There's absolutely nothing going for me in my life, I may as well see where this is going."
But it is strange he took it upon himself to pull the stone out of Tal Rasha/Baal. I'm not sure what his motives were behind that. It's funny how through all of that, Marius was never really rewarded, except for just being killed by Baal.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
But was it Baal forcing Tal Rasha to trick Marius, or was it a maddened Tal Rasha begging for some kind of release, as he underestimated Baal's powers.
my first post!...
here is what i grasp out of watching the video sequence over and over trying to piece it all together...
Marius isnt talking to baal... the person marius is talking to is in a humaniod form, without the soul stone in tal rasha baal would assume his real form... that which you fight in act 5. and notice how tal rasha never really appears in the game, niether as an enemy or an NPC of sorts. i think baals soul must have escaped tal rashsa's body after the soul stone was removed, thus finding a new, weaker host to feed on and corrupt. this creates baal in his true form. and after all of that, Marius is actually talking to a semi-corrupt, and no doubtedly enraged tal rasha, who slays Marius either out of anger for Marius's transgression of ripping out the soul stone, or out of mercy, wishing to put his troubled soul to rest, thus recieving the soul stone and persuing baal.. either to kill him, recapture him, or serve him...
just my out take on that part of Diablo II
now that i rememberd this video... i also came up with another possibility...
in that movie you are watching the fallen hero from diablo I, and you notice that he is corrupt and growing more demonic... but you also notice he drops the soulstone that posessed diablo's soul...
this could serve the purpose for introducing baal.. Marius follows the dark wanderer, who in this video is now without a soul stone, and thus not diablo, but a demonic character that marius fears in a sense...
the dropped soul stone?... well it could have been picked up by a child.. or a weak man and it could have corrupted him... this creates the new diablo.. and the dark wanderer is still on his journey.. upon marius removing the stone from tal rasha, the demonic warrior ALLOWS himself to be corrupted even further, and possessed by baal. so now baal and marius leave, meet up with diablo to open the portal. marius leaves, and tal rasha finds him to recover baals soul stone.
Marius isnt talking to baal... the person marius is talking to is in a humaniod form, without the soul stone in tal rasha baal would assume his real form... that which you fight in act 5. and notice how tal rasha never really appears in the game, niether as an enemy or an NPC of sorts. i think baals soul must have escaped tal rashsa's body after the soul stone was removed,
If I remember correctly, the FAQ for LoD asks why Baal looks so different in the Expansion than how he appears in the original. I believe the answer was simply that he was metamorphisizing as his power was growing. But I believe the Baal version you see in the original Diablo II is still Baal with Tal Rasha as his host. He appears as some kind of skeletal figure in the cinematic of Act III, but I just think it's Baal's nature rapidly distorting Tal Rasha's human form.
Quote from "worldslayer608" »
thus finding a new, weaker host to feed on and corrupt. this creates baal in his true form. and after all of that, Marius is actually talking to a semi-corrupt, and no doubtedly enraged tal rasha, who slays Marius either out of anger for Marius's transgression of ripping out the soul stone, or out of mercy, wishing to put his troubled soul to rest, thus recieving the soul stone and persuing baal.. either to kill him, recapture him, or serve him...
Interesting. I've never considered that that one who kills Marius in the end is Tal Rasha alone. But I'm still pretty positive it is Baal/Tal Rasha who kills him. It is also important to keep in mind that having a powerful host actually bodes well for the Prime Evil inhabiting it. Since when Diablo was parasitic to Prince Albrecht in the first one, his powers weren't as formidabble as in the second one.
in that movie you are watching the fallen hero from diablo I, and you notice that he is corrupt and growing more demonic... but you also notice he drops the soulstone that posessed diablo's soul...
this could serve the purpose for introducing baal.. Marius follows the dark wanderer, who in this video is now without a soul stone, and thus not diablo, but a demonic character that marius fears in a sense...
the dropped soul stone?... well it could have been picked up by a child.. or a weak man and it could have corrupted him... this creates the new diablo.. and the dark wanderer is still on his journey.. upon marius removing the stone from tal rasha, the demonic warrior ALLOWS himself to be corrupted even further, and possessed by baal. so now baal and marius leave, meet up with diablo to open the portal. marius leaves, and tal rasha finds him to recover baals soul stone.
A couple of things, not in the most logical order (but I'm watching South Park as I write this). That trailer which premiered on the Brood Wars CD I believe, really didn't follow the way the game would later be developed. I'm sure they just wanted to show you the Soulstone like that to send your imagination reeling about the possibilites in Diablo II.
I've also found it interesting that Baal/Tal Rasha was walking around at all without his Soulstone. Cause once imprisoned in a Soulstone, there seems no existing in the mortal world without a mortal host. Unless you exist just inside the Soulstone which was the case for Diablo in the first game until he had control of Prince Albrecht. So I've often wondered what was unique about Baal that allowed him to exist while someone else has the stone that his soul or essence is supposedly held in.
I've also found it interesting that Baal/Tal Rasha was walking around at all without his Soulstone. Cause once imprisoned in a Soulstone, there seems no existing in the mortal world without a mortal host. Unless you exist just inside the Soulstone which was the case for Diablo in the first game until he had control of Prince Albrecht. So I've often wondered what was unique about Baal that allowed him to exist while someone else has the stone that his soul or essence is supposedly held in.
the prime evils once existed i nthe world of sanctuary with soulstones they were then captured one by one and placed with a soulstone. Baal possibly due to his destructive nature, broke his, thus a sustitute for the missing piece was needed, Tal Rasha chose to be the substitute and wrestle with Baal for all etentity.
one of the NPCs and i foget which (probably cain or that healy chick in act II) say Baal is in posession of the world's greatest mage. Baal could walk around without part of his soulstone because Tal Rasha was sacrificed to replace the broken part, in a way Tal Rasha is the soulstone and thus acts like the other stones, and must be in the host. but since there is still the bit of the stone that marius has, Baal seems weaker, and not at full strength, hence he would want to find the missing part (which marius has).
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
the prime evils once existed i nthe world of sanctuary with soulstones they were then captured one by one and placed with a soulstone. Baal possibly due to his destructive nature, broke his, thus a sustitute for the missing piece was needed, Tal Rasha chose to be the substitute and wrestle with Baal for all etentity.
The manual specifically states that Baal shattered his own Soulstone in a battle against the Horadrim before they were able to imprison him. And yes, I think whatever shortcomings the shattered Soulstone had, Tal Rasha would make up for the rest of it.
But you are right, that at one time, all the Prime Evils existed in Sanctuary in physical form. Since they were hunted and had an actual battle with Baal, we could easily assume it was a physical demon. I don't think they were in some sort of ethereal form or anything. It's interesting to imagine what they might have looked like then.
Quote from name="Elfen Lied" »
one of the NPCs and i foget which (probably cain or that healy chick in act II) say Baal is in posession of the world's greatest mage. Baal could walk around without part of his soulstone because Tal Rasha was sacrificed to replace the broken part, in a way Tal Rasha is the soulstone and thus acts like the other stones, and must be in the host. but since there is still the bit of the stone that marius has, Baal seems weaker, and not at full strength, hence he would want to find the missing part (which marius has).
That was Fara that said that. But when you say the missing part of the Soulstone, do you mean that Tal Rasha is the other part? Because that Soulstone Marius has is all that's left of Baal's Soulstone. I just didn't know if you were thinking that the shattered pieces still existed in some form. Cause I think whatever shattered off the original piece, just turned into bits of regular stone.
But when you say the missing part of the Soulstone, do you mean that Tal Rasha is the other part? Because that Soulstone Marius has is all that's left of Baal's Soulstone.
I just didn't know if you were thinking that the shattered pieces still existed in some form. Cause I think whatever shattered off the original piece, just turned into bits of regular stone.
yeh i figure marius' piece is whats left of the soulstone after it broke.
it mentions the stone as a whole. it mentions the stone breaking and tal rash replacing the broken part, and it mentions marius holding the remain stone.
i dont recall any mention of the broken piece or pieces after Tal Rasha replaces it or them. ive never really thought about what happened to the actual broken piece or pieces, i assumed they held no essence or someone or something would have picked them up.
we see Baal/Tal Rasha go after Marius' piece but not the others, this is what led me to believe they contain no power.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Yeah, I never thought the rest had any power left in it either. But it did occur to me how supposedly the stones could only be destroyed at the Hellforge. That, or they could be destroyed elsewhere, it just wouldn't properly banish their spirits to where you'd want them to go.
i think there might have been a bit of LOTR in it, i.e the stones can only be destroyed in the same fire in which they were forged, but maybe not.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
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But yeah, I was just under the impression at least that Mephisto was the leader since he was the oldest and since Hatred seemed like the initial seed in sowing evil. But you could very well argue that it is fear or terror that comes first. Then destruction is just the inevitable after math of hatred and terror, or mopping up, so to speak.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Baal, Lord of Destruction (Excidium)
The soldiers of Baal seek the undoing of the universe. They strive for ultimate disorder and destruction, and to this end covet the destruction of all they behold. Order is abhorrence to them and these creatures are the manifestation of the forces of chaos.
Diablo, Lord of Terror (Metus)
Using illusion and fear as their greatest weapons, the attendants to Diablo are formidable adversaries. They prefer to wait for their opponent to display a moment of weakness before they attack. Equally dangerous in the dark or in your dreams, they are the fears of man made flesh by Diablo’s will. These nightmares lurk at the edges of mortal perception from the moment that you take your first breath - and they long to be with you when your take your last.
Mephisto, the Lord of Hatred (Odium)
The legions of Mephisto are driven by a hatred of all living things - especially those who are pure of heart. He counts as minions both the walking dead, who forever seek vengeance upon the living, as well as a host of demonically corrupted creatures whose twisted limbs and misshapen bodies leave them in eternal agony and rage.
a very good read indeed
While it is interesting how different Prime Evils use their own minions, it seems for the most part they all still rely on brute force above all else.
I wouldn't mind seeing some monsters in the next game that can attack you mentally. Either by making everything around you suddenly go black, or upside down, or just anything else that might disorient you.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
what ?! its what it says in the manual.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
To Sianoq - dun't wander, it's pattern time... for me...
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
you want proof? you got it.
here is the text actually in the manual, i would post the actually pages but they are in PDF and i too noob to figure it out
the full manual is about 12000kb, too big for an attachment.
oh ok then, yeh it does kinda seem weird.
Just to try and clear up the whole Nephalem thing...
The Nephalem are angel demon hybrids with great power created by Inarius to worship him in Sanctuary. They lost their power over time due to the construction of the Worldstone by Inarius, out of jealousy of their powers. The Nephalem eventually become the humans of Sanctuary.
I'm assuming The Ancients are sort of frozen in time. So they are either complete Nephalem or watered down and not completely human.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-player_characters_in_Diablo#Inarius
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule."
here is what i grasp out of watching the video sequence over and over trying to piece it all together...
Marius isnt talking to baal... the person marius is talking to is in a humaniod form, without the soul stone in tal rasha baal would assume his real form... that which you fight in act 5. and notice how tal rasha never really appears in the game, niether as an enemy or an NPC of sorts. i think baals soul must have escaped tal rashsa's body after the soul stone was removed, thus finding a new, weaker host to feed on and corrupt. this creates baal in his true form. and after all of that, Marius is actually talking to a semi-corrupt, and no doubtedly enraged tal rasha, who slays Marius either out of anger for Marius's transgression of ripping out the soul stone, or out of mercy, wishing to put his troubled soul to rest, thus recieving the soul stone and persuing baal.. either to kill him, recapture him, or serve him...
just my out take on that part of Diablo II
now that i rememberd this video... i also came up with another possibility...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVv41NarVP4
in that movie you are watching the fallen hero from diablo I, and you notice that he is corrupt and growing more demonic... but you also notice he drops the soulstone that posessed diablo's soul...
this could serve the purpose for introducing baal.. Marius follows the dark wanderer, who in this video is now without a soul stone, and thus not diablo, but a demonic character that marius fears in a sense...
the dropped soul stone?... well it could have been picked up by a child.. or a weak man and it could have corrupted him... this creates the new diablo.. and the dark wanderer is still on his journey.. upon marius removing the stone from tal rasha, the demonic warrior ALLOWS himself to be corrupted even further, and possessed by baal. so now baal and marius leave, meet up with diablo to open the portal. marius leaves, and tal rasha finds him to recover baals soul stone.
Interesting. I've never considered that that one who kills Marius in the end is Tal Rasha alone. But I'm still pretty positive it is Baal/Tal Rasha who kills him. It is also important to keep in mind that having a powerful host actually bodes well for the Prime Evil inhabiting it. Since when Diablo was parasitic to Prince Albrecht in the first one, his powers weren't as formidabble as in the second one.
A couple of things, not in the most logical order (but I'm watching South Park as I write this). That trailer which premiered on the Brood Wars CD I believe, really didn't follow the way the game would later be developed. I'm sure they just wanted to show you the Soulstone like that to send your imagination reeling about the possibilites in Diablo II.
I've also found it interesting that Baal/Tal Rasha was walking around at all without his Soulstone. Cause once imprisoned in a Soulstone, there seems no existing in the mortal world without a mortal host. Unless you exist just inside the Soulstone which was the case for Diablo in the first game until he had control of Prince Albrecht. So I've often wondered what was unique about Baal that allowed him to exist while someone else has the stone that his soul or essence is supposedly held in.
Oh, and welcome to the forums.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
the prime evils once existed i nthe world of sanctuary with soulstones they were then captured one by one and placed with a soulstone. Baal possibly due to his destructive nature, broke his, thus a sustitute for the missing piece was needed, Tal Rasha chose to be the substitute and wrestle with Baal for all etentity.
one of the NPCs and i foget which (probably cain or that healy chick in act II) say Baal is in posession of the world's greatest mage. Baal could walk around without part of his soulstone because Tal Rasha was sacrificed to replace the broken part, in a way Tal Rasha is the soulstone and thus acts like the other stones, and must be in the host. but since there is still the bit of the stone that marius has, Baal seems weaker, and not at full strength, hence he would want to find the missing part (which marius has).
But you are right, that at one time, all the Prime Evils existed in Sanctuary in physical form. Since they were hunted and had an actual battle with Baal, we could easily assume it was a physical demon. I don't think they were in some sort of ethereal form or anything. It's interesting to imagine what they might have looked like then.
That was Fara that said that. But when you say the missing part of the Soulstone, do you mean that Tal Rasha is the other part? Because that Soulstone Marius has is all that's left of Baal's Soulstone. I just didn't know if you were thinking that the shattered pieces still existed in some form. Cause I think whatever shattered off the original piece, just turned into bits of regular stone.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
yeh i figure marius' piece is whats left of the soulstone after it broke.
it mentions the stone as a whole. it mentions the stone breaking and tal rash replacing the broken part, and it mentions marius holding the remain stone.
i dont recall any mention of the broken piece or pieces after Tal Rasha replaces it or them. ive never really thought about what happened to the actual broken piece or pieces, i assumed they held no essence or someone or something would have picked them up.
we see Baal/Tal Rasha go after Marius' piece but not the others, this is what led me to believe they contain no power.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs