Another thing bots have going against them (besides the difficulty) is the lack of map hacks; from what I gather, Bash seemed to imply that monster positions are no longer going to be available in advance, but are rather procedurally generated on the fly, probably based on some distance between the player and monster spawns. Even better if this is also done with map generation. Bots can't account for anything they don't see, and if the server isn't giving the bots any details about the map or the monsters in advance, it severely limits their effectiveness.
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
Because of the lack of map information regarding mobs, rare and champion mobs having the best drops and the difficulty being so high, there probably won't be bots running around Inferno -- especially the latter parts. If someone can program a bot to effectively farm act IV Inferno, they should get a job at Google or Microsoft, solve P=NP, etc. instead and make a lot more money than they ever could from botting. I imagine there will be some private botters in early hell farming gold though, as that should be much easier.
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
I think you meant "If," "there aren't," "efficiently," "6 months," "they're," You" and, "actual." Additionally, there should be a word like "so" between "game" and "every," and there should be a comma between the second "better" and the first "day" and between "months" and "they're." I wouldn't normally go after a post's spelling, capitilization and grammar, but since you insist on calling people stupid, I almost feel obligated.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
Great way to actually support your argument with intelligence and facts there.
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
Great way to actually support your argument with intelligence and facts there.
Because of the lack of map information regarding mobs, rare and champion mobs having the best drops and the difficulty being so high, there probably won't be bots running around Inferno -- especially the latter parts. If someone can program a bot to effectively farm act IV Inferno, they should get a job at Google or Microsoft, solve P=NP, etc. instead and make a lot more money than they ever could from botting. I imagine there will be some private botters in early hell farming gold though, as that should be much easier.
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
I think you meant "If," "there aren't," "efficiently," "6 months," "they're," You" and, "actual." Additionally, there should be a word like "so" between "game" and "every," and there should be a comma between the second "better" and the first "day" and between "months" and "they're." I wouldn't normally go after a post's spelling, capitilization and grammar, but since you insist on calling people stupid, I almost feel obligated.
you obviously still understood the whole post, so whats it matter if i dont use punctuation ?
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
I happen to believe this.
Take, for example, one game within which botting is known to be very prevalent: World of Warcraft. This example has the added benefit of being developed by the same company as Diablo 3.
Typical bots in WoW do very menial chores: farm raw materials (mining nodes, gathering herbs, etc.), farm mobs at the same level as the character continuously for hours. Let us keep in mind that these mobs are extremely easy to kill, especially with heirloom gear. Now, is this the most profitable way to farm gold or experience? No. The most profitable thing to farm would be instances that you have severely out-leveled. You can get rare items for enchanting mats, cloth that sells for a lot, etc. Why are there no bots that farm low-level instances? Because it's too difficult to program. Otherwise we'd see bots clearing BT on DK for the high amounts of gold you get per clear.
That said, there will be bots. They won't be farming inferno efficiently, however. They will be farming Hell mode once they have a lot of gear. And even then, they won't be doing it efficiently.
you obviously still understood the whole post, so whats it matter if i dont use punctuation ?
It doesn't, which is why I wouldn't normally say anything. The reason I mention it here is to contrast how, despite the fact that your post is particularly poorly written (sorry, but it is), you don't think it implies that you are stupid while you do think that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. And to be clear, I'm not saying that you are stupid -- rather I'm saying that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them stupid either, and it isn't helpful to say they are. All it does is show that you won't listen to any evidence contrary to what you've already decided (I mean, why would you listen to stupid people?), and bully people into not responding because they don't want to seem stupid.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
you obviously still understood the whole post, so whats it matter if i dont use punctuation ?
It doesn't, which is why I wouldn't normally say anything. The reason I mention it here is to contrast how, despite the fact that your post is particularly poorly written (sorry, but it is), you don't think it implies that you are stupid while you do think that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. And to be clear, I'm not saying that you are stupid -- rather I'm saying that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them stupid either, and it isn't helpful to say they are. All it does is show that you won't listen to any evidence contrary to what you've already decided (I mean, why would you listen to stupid people?), and bully people into not responding because they don't want to seem stupid.
point taken.
i dont mean to be mean.
but people thinking that its going to be to hard to create a bot for this game are on the same wave length of people that beleive a big magic man up above controls every aspect of our lives. LOL
if people think theres not going to be perfected bots that run smoothly and effeciently within 6months there stupid. you can make acutal money through this game every programmer under the sun is going to be sitting there making bots better and better day by day.
I happen to believe this.
Take, for example, one game within which botting is known to be very prevalent: World of Warcraft. This example has the added benefit of being developed by the same company as Diablo 3.
Typical bots in WoW do very menial chores: farm raw materials (mining nodes, gathering herbs, etc.), farm mobs at the same level as the character continuously for hours. Let us keep in mind that these mobs are extremely easy to kill, especially with heirloom gear. Now, is this the most profitable way to farm gold or experience? No. The most profitable thing to farm would be instances that you have severely out-leveled. You can get rare items for enchanting mats, cloth that sells for a lot, etc. Why are there no bots that farm low-level instances? Because it's too difficult to program. Otherwise we'd see bots clearing BT on DK for the high amounts of gold you get per clear.
That said, there will be bots. They won't be farming inferno efficiently, however. They will be farming Hell mode once they have a lot of gear. And even then, they won't be doing it efficiently.
It's a good thing you brought up WoW, because it actually serves as a fantastic example against bots in D3.
As you yourself mention; what are bots in WoW doing? Well, sit and watch one for a few hours. They navigate a path (usually a circuit) over static, unchanging terrain, which they already know about in advance. They're fighting mobs of a fixed level with a known, incredibly small pool of abilities. And never at any point are they thrown any surprises.
This is in complete contrast with Diablo 3. The maps are completely randomized, meaning you can't hardcode set paths. Your bot now needs exponentially more programming finesse, not only in being able to read each new map as its presented, but also how to navigate it. Because Blizzard has already acknowledged that bots won't be able to scan a map in advance to determine monster locations/compositions (due to them not being populated for the client in advance), I also strongly suspect the game's map generation is done in the same way. Meaning that your bot can't scan the map in advance and determine a path, it now has to feel its way about as it goes; even more programming that requires finesse and understanding of the game's inner processes and workings.
The biggest challenge to bots though? The difficulty. WoW bots are grinding the same level of mob with a tiny, known pool of abilities repeatedly. D3 bots are going to be going up against packs of mobs specifically designed to mix up how a player plays and exploit the weaknesses of specific classes, as well as champion/rare packs with entirely random sets of affixes that can require completely different playstyles and approaches from one group to the next. I don't know how much familiarity you have with AI, or with programming in general (my senior thesis was an AI project), but situations such as those mentioned above have a LOT of different variables that the average player considers when encountering even a fairly simple example of the above. Modeling all the different thought processes a player goes through mid-combat and turning that into code for a bot is a LOT different than what's asked of a player who wants nothing more than to farm an area of WoW.
For some reason people imagine there's this difficulty curve where normal/nightmare/hell/inferno go easy/easy/easy/OMG HARD. The developers have been saying for a while now that nightmare and hell are hard all unto themselves. I have my doubts that bots will have the requisite AI necessary to deal with the completely random areas and combat of even these modes for a LONG time, if at all. Being fed gear from higher difficulties may assist with the manual act of combat, but that's not the part that the bots are going to have the hardest time with. They're going to have the hardest time with developing all the logic that comes into play when dealing with completely randomized monster AI and areas, without the benefit of being able to see inside the black box that bots in games like D2 and WoW have (because of the obfuscation created by the client-server architecture).
It's been confirmed that most of the higher tier items(the best gear) won't even drop until you get into Inferno difficulty. So if we presume bots cannot make it there then end game gear truly will be rare .
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"The righteous shall fall before the wicked, and all of Creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell."
Jay Wilson basically said that Inferno probably won't be beat by a HC character. So using that assumption, if Inferno is indeed that hard than it's hard to believe that a bot would be able to run through it with any sort of efficiency in comparision to a player even on softcore. Which also confirms that Hardcore will be relatively free of bots especially in the later difficulties.
Plus, people seem to have this completely nonsensical assumption that "Hell = bottable, Inferno = not".
I think people just have the idea that some area somewhere will be bottable, and most likely that area will be in hell. Also, keep in mind that you don't have to build a bot to play through a whole difficulty, act or even zone. All it's got to do is find whatever the most easily farmable area in the highest difficulty it can manage and kill as much as it can and then make a new game and repeat. The trick is getting it to do that and look like a player to whatever anti-botting algorithms exist.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
I think you meant "If," "there aren't," "efficiently," "6 months," "they're," You" and, "actual." Additionally, there should be a word like "so" between "game" and "every," and there should be a comma between the second "better" and the first "day" and between "months" and "they're." I wouldn't normally go after a post's spelling, capitilization and grammar, but since you insist on calling people stupid, I almost feel obligated.
Great way to actually support your argument with intelligence and facts there.
you acutallly think there wont be bots?
you obviously still understood the whole post, so whats it matter if i dont use punctuation ?
I happen to believe this.
Take, for example, one game within which botting is known to be very prevalent: World of Warcraft. This example has the added benefit of being developed by the same company as Diablo 3.
Typical bots in WoW do very menial chores: farm raw materials (mining nodes, gathering herbs, etc.), farm mobs at the same level as the character continuously for hours. Let us keep in mind that these mobs are extremely easy to kill, especially with heirloom gear. Now, is this the most profitable way to farm gold or experience? No. The most profitable thing to farm would be instances that you have severely out-leveled. You can get rare items for enchanting mats, cloth that sells for a lot, etc. Why are there no bots that farm low-level instances? Because it's too difficult to program. Otherwise we'd see bots clearing BT on DK for the high amounts of gold you get per clear.
That said, there will be bots. They won't be farming inferno efficiently, however. They will be farming Hell mode once they have a lot of gear. And even then, they won't be doing it efficiently.
It doesn't, which is why I wouldn't normally say anything. The reason I mention it here is to contrast how, despite the fact that your post is particularly poorly written (sorry, but it is), you don't think it implies that you are stupid while you do think that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. And to be clear, I'm not saying that you are stupid -- rather I'm saying that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them stupid either, and it isn't helpful to say they are. All it does is show that you won't listen to any evidence contrary to what you've already decided (I mean, why would you listen to stupid people?), and bully people into not responding because they don't want to seem stupid.
One of my college buddies did his on a series of problems he solved with neural nets and one of them was a bot to play Missile Command.
point taken.
i dont mean to be mean.
but people thinking that its going to be to hard to create a bot for this game are on the same wave length of people that beleive a big magic man up above controls every aspect of our lives. LOL
It's a good thing you brought up WoW, because it actually serves as a fantastic example against bots in D3.
As you yourself mention; what are bots in WoW doing? Well, sit and watch one for a few hours. They navigate a path (usually a circuit) over static, unchanging terrain, which they already know about in advance. They're fighting mobs of a fixed level with a known, incredibly small pool of abilities. And never at any point are they thrown any surprises.
This is in complete contrast with Diablo 3. The maps are completely randomized, meaning you can't hardcode set paths. Your bot now needs exponentially more programming finesse, not only in being able to read each new map as its presented, but also how to navigate it. Because Blizzard has already acknowledged that bots won't be able to scan a map in advance to determine monster locations/compositions (due to them not being populated for the client in advance), I also strongly suspect the game's map generation is done in the same way. Meaning that your bot can't scan the map in advance and determine a path, it now has to feel its way about as it goes; even more programming that requires finesse and understanding of the game's inner processes and workings.
The biggest challenge to bots though? The difficulty. WoW bots are grinding the same level of mob with a tiny, known pool of abilities repeatedly. D3 bots are going to be going up against packs of mobs specifically designed to mix up how a player plays and exploit the weaknesses of specific classes, as well as champion/rare packs with entirely random sets of affixes that can require completely different playstyles and approaches from one group to the next. I don't know how much familiarity you have with AI, or with programming in general (my senior thesis was an AI project), but situations such as those mentioned above have a LOT of different variables that the average player considers when encountering even a fairly simple example of the above. Modeling all the different thought processes a player goes through mid-combat and turning that into code for a bot is a LOT different than what's asked of a player who wants nothing more than to farm an area of WoW.
For some reason people imagine there's this difficulty curve where normal/nightmare/hell/inferno go easy/easy/easy/OMG HARD. The developers have been saying for a while now that nightmare and hell are hard all unto themselves. I have my doubts that bots will have the requisite AI necessary to deal with the completely random areas and combat of even these modes for a LONG time, if at all. Being fed gear from higher difficulties may assist with the manual act of combat, but that's not the part that the bots are going to have the hardest time with. They're going to have the hardest time with developing all the logic that comes into play when dealing with completely randomized monster AI and areas, without the benefit of being able to see inside the black box that bots in games like D2 and WoW have (because of the obfuscation created by the client-server architecture).
Link to said: https://twitter.com/...234226159460352
I think people just have the idea that some area somewhere will be bottable, and most likely that area will be in hell. Also, keep in mind that you don't have to build a bot to play through a whole difficulty, act or even zone. All it's got to do is find whatever the most easily farmable area in the highest difficulty it can manage and kill as much as it can and then make a new game and repeat. The trick is getting it to do that and look like a player to whatever anti-botting algorithms exist.