Well in D2 runes were pretty much always superior to gems, and getting highest level gems were very easy. In D3, there are 14 levels of gems that means we will be collecting them forever and highest will cost quite a lot.
What I really miss, are ethereal items, they looked really cool and could be the best items in the game.
As another item type I think ethereal could be really cool =) Breaks after X amount of uses, so situational at best, but hell I'd use em for PVP =D
Honestly, if there is one big improvement from D2 to D3 it's the removal of runewords and the addition of extra randomness to items. Runewords were incredibly tedious to collect due to the rarity of high end runes, and yet in many slots Runewords were overwhelmingly superior to any non-runeword item. (Just ask anyone with an Enigma, Infinity, or BotD) This effectively reduced the high-end item hunt to a single difficult to obtain "best in slot" item, with all other items being second class citizens.
Combined with the fact that Rare items were garbage in D2, and many Unique/Set items didn't have a whole lot of randomization (one full Trang's Set is the same as any other Trang's Set) the high end item hunt actually had relatively few viable possibilities for any given build.
Just look at any online Diablo 2 character build guide. They will usually list 3 sets of items (Cheap, expensive, and top slot). For any given slot there weren't a whole lot of different choices.
In Diablo 3, all high end items will have extra random affixes. One windforce might have +Damage to Uniques and +Attackspeed, while another windforce has +Multishot Damage and +Dodge while a third windforce has +Discipline and -Enemy Physical Resist. This introduces the possibility of a "not so good" unique rolling exceptionally good random affixes and ending up on the same tier as a higher-level unique. The possibilities are endless, and no one will be able to list a "best in slot" because randomized high end items can be so different from one another.
Beta is not a good guide for item diversity because there are a really tiny amount of affixes available at level 13. Blizz has already promised +skill affixes, and datamining has come up with a few more.
That is not game changing. Charms in no way changed how you play the game, they did not give you new abilities or change how your current abilites worked. They were flat damage or defensive increases that could have been given to players in the form of other items.
Charms not game changing? I'm guessing the game ended for you at Baal Runs then? lol
Is it just me, or do i see abilities in there!? OH SNAP!
As for the OP, I feel like they are going to go with this game plan:
Dumb the game down in some aspects and hope that new boss fights and other content will compensate... on top of gutting entire aspects of the game like PvP and save them for future releases.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
Charms not game changing? I'm guessing the game ended for you at Baal Runs then? lol
Troll sensors activated.. Okay, I'll bite.
Is it just me, or do i see abilities in there!? OH SNAP!
As for the OP, I feel like they are going to go with this game plan:
Dumb the game down in some aspects and hope that new boss fights and other content will compensate... on top of gutting entire aspects of the game like PvP and save them for future releases.
The ability to proc spells and get a limited number of charges for other abilities didn't just exist on charms in Diablo 2. These things could have been rolled into other pieces of equipment and would in no way have impacted the final game. Therefore the charms themselves did not offer anything game changing over anything else that was already there. In this, I believe my argument is still valid.
Also, the charm you are referring to was added into the game years after release to deal with the rampant SoJ duping problems. If I recall, you had to take out Uber Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto to get that. An item that was added after years of iteration in the last days of a product's life cycle is a little unfair to compare to the beginning of another game's life cycle anyway. Diablo 3 has room to grow and still has more to offer than the Base level of Diablo 2.
Besides, look at that lack of inventory space just to be more powerful. Interesting game play comes from making sacrifices in one area to improve another, granted, but this should be in the choice of offense over defense, or magic find over survival... Inventory space shouldn't be a trade off.
I do appreciate the opposing point of view, but don't think you needed to resort to sensationalism to make it
Which is my point exactly. Charms added 40 spots of how you would manage your characters stats. They could change your play from full MF to Goldfind to full offensive to defensive. Alright not "game changing" but they added so much more than just equipable gear to perfect your character.
Same goes for crafting items. Just another item drop that could be valuable. Changed to -> Loot everything and salvage it.
They probably want to add enchants as far as I remember and this should change a look of your character and give similar effects as charms in D2 in terms of customization. I also believe that they will add charms at some point to D3 too but as they planned from the start as additional character slot for 3 or so charms and not a way to fill your inventory so you have no place to store your pickup items which was so dumb idea at that time.
I never heard anything about pvp items...That shouldn't even be on the list, and its a terrible idea to boot.
I have to agree, pvp based items would be a terrible idea, and would separate the player base. Now of course there will be items better for pvp than others, but I personally am against pvp only stats (such as resilience )
I think blizzard wants three on three fights to be quite fair but not one on one. With this they don't need to create special pvp gear as groups should be quite balanced.
They said there will be more items than D2 (weapons and armors I guess).
And the skills and enemies look really fun, a lot better than D2, the replay value should also come from its gameplay.
Well in D2 runes were pretty much always superior to gems, and getting highest level gems were very easy. In D3, there are 14 levels of gems that means we will be collecting them forever and highest will cost quite a lot.
What I really miss, are ethereal items, they looked really cool and could be the best items in the game.
What's the real point of such items. Constant pain in thinking that they wear off?
Well in D2 runes were pretty much always superior to gems, and getting highest level gems were very easy. In D3, there are 14 levels of gems that means we will be collecting them forever and highest will cost quite a lot.
What I really miss, are ethereal items, they looked really cool and could be the best items in the game.
As another item type I think ethereal could be really cool =) Breaks after X amount of uses, so situational at best, but hell I'd use em for PVP =D
If it's just for pvp then it's no no as it would cross the line called "no separation between pvp and pve". Find another reason to have them in the game which overgrow the pain of constant worry that they wear off.
Diablo 3
5x more content to explore
2 different types of crafting, can craft much wider of a variety of items than D2
Items (harder to find good ones compared to D2) more time consuming
gems (way more than in D2)
yeah so D3 has the other games beat by miles.
And I'm not a D3 nub, I've been playing this franchise for a very long time.
That is not game changing. Charms in no way changed how you play the game, they did not give you new abilities or change how your current abilites worked. They were flat damage or defensive increases that could have been given to players in the form of other items.
Charms not game changing? I'm guessing the game ended for you at Baal Runs then? lol
Is it just me, or do i see abilities in there!? OH SNAP!
As for the OP, I feel like they are going to go with this game plan:
Dumb the game down in some aspects and hope that new boss fights and other content will compensate... on top of gutting entire aspects of the game like PvP and save them for future releases.
Man, what you were doing since then. You just have one slot in your inventory It would be nice if you could put them all in a form of talisman around your neck which is exactly what they will bring back at some point and you will still have your inventory. Letting your inventory to be taken like this is from many point game braking. I bet it didn't cross they mind some nuts would fill their inventory like this. Though it seems you have nothing else to do with this character anymore having Hellfire torch already.
That is not game changing. Charms in no way changed how you play the game, they did not give you new abilities or change how your current abilites worked. They were flat damage or defensive increases that could have been given to players in the form of other items.
Charms not game changing? I'm guessing the game ended for you at Baal Runs then? lol
Is it just me, or do i see abilities in there!? OH SNAP!
As for the OP, I feel like they are going to go with this game plan:
Dumb the game down in some aspects and hope that new boss fights and other content will compensate... on top of gutting entire aspects of the game like PvP and save them for future releases.
The guys point was it didn't change or give anything.
It just improved what you already have
Charms just layered what was already there, didn't add anything new
The argument is that there isn't enough to pick up or to find in the world. The argument for this is that charms do not exist and therefore there isn't as much diversity in the "item game" in Diablo 3.
My counterpoint to this is that charms did not offer bonuses beyond what could be found in normal equipment. Therefore, if the bonuses offered by normal equipment were diverse enough, then you could still have the same, if not more, unique item drops than Diablo 2 had in Diablo 3.
It has already been stated that new unique types of item affixes will exist to enhance our abilities. We also have more armor slots on our characters than diablo 2 had. I believe it's way too early to say that the "item game" for Diablo 3 is going to be worse then Diablo 3. I also think that comparing the full game plus xpack for Diablo 2 sets an unrealistic expectation when used to compare against Diablo 3.
Lastly, I simply don't agree with a gameplay mechanic that requires me to sacrifice my inventory slots for that additional firepower. I do not find it fun or interesting. This is a hack and slash, not a survival horror when I have to be picky about what I pick up and carry.
Hopefully that has made my thoughts on the matter more clear.
i want to say this for a final time. THIS IS DIABLO 3 not diablo 2... if u want CHARMS and stuff go play diablo 2 ... U SIMPLY WANT d2 copy with more content ???????
Ah, I see. Now that is a much stronger argument and I agree with it. Your last paragraph in particular drives the point home very well
To be honest, I'm glad you said something about my argument. Forgetting about the skill procs and occasional limited use skills deflated my argument a bit and it gave me a chance to re-evaluate my argument into something more coherent.
Sigh, I'm slightly annoyed I wrote a nice little article and somehow didn't get posted.
That said the point in a very short note is that the game we are playing is new, and the concepts of complex space management are just not ready for the game at this time. Usually I would put more work into a post like this but I just lost literally 45 minutes of typing and really disgruntled about that.
It was weird too because my Copy button didn't work either. Sigh.
Anyhow you can't expect a game which is very New to be very complex out of the gate with tons of management systems. It has been over a decade since Diablo 2 and a lot has changed in the gaming environment, so Diablo 3 shouldn't have those complex mechanics.
I have to disagree, here. Diablo 2 + Lord of Destruction is already 'available data'. What I mean is, it's already out there, it's been out for years and they can't just pretend that they know nothing of this 'thing' called LoD, they damned well better look at it and say "Let's see what was good about this". D3 should have (pretty much) everything good that existed in D2 plus LoD.
I just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to suggest the game should have "less" than its predecessor. I expect it to have a similar level of content, but that doesn't mean that content has to be an exact duplicate. What we lose out in one area we gain in others. We already have many more skills.. not just more skills but many more USEFUL skills than Diablo 2.
I think focusing on losing a tiny part of the game belittles the work that went into all other areas of the game. In short, not having the same content does not mean having less content.
(...) the game we are playing is new, and the concepts of complex space management are just not ready for the game at this time.
Anyhow you can't expect a game which is very New to be very complex out of the gate with tons of management systems. It has been over a decade since Diablo 2 and a lot has changed in the gaming environment, so Diablo 3 shouldn't have those complex mechanics.
I have to disagree, here. Diablo 2 + Lord of Destruction is already 'available data'. What I mean is, it's already out there, it's been out for years and they can't just pretend that they know nothing of this 'thing' called LoD, they damned well better look at it and say "Let's see what was good about this". D3 should have (pretty much) everything good that existed in D2 plus LoD.
Those mechanics were broken or they just cut them out for now and they will come back as a way of balancing the game without changing current items statistics which makes ppl often mad. Whatever was cut and for sure keeping charms in inventory was was just plain broken.
Maka, I do apologize but my previous post got lost in the series of tubes that exist right now.
My point was more that the game is a decade apart. Here is the thing, you, me, and everyone in this little Diablofans community know about all things Diablo. Diablo 2 is a fresh piece in our minds. This is a very accurate fact that we all know that complex space management. My point was that this game is going to sell to a lot more than just our little community.
For them to jump into a new game, or jump in after having not played for a decade, Diablo 3 can't just go around and give you too much to play around with. They originally were going to have a lot of inventory management the reason they cut this back, I believe, was to keep the game from getting too complex. People who haven't been playing Diablo 2 within the past year aren't going to be ready for complicated space management.
I'm sure this is what they saw in play testing, that people new to the game experience and concept of Diablo found it daunting to manage so many different variables in the game. So they've gone back and said, lets easy people into this game, crafting items, that will be complicated. Managing gear with a shared stash for your toons, that is going to be complicated, not to mention different item sets for different rune configurations. For a new game, well over a decade since the last one, you can't just have a sequel act like the collective consciousness still remembers it freshly. This isn't a Modern War sequel, it is a Diablo sequel and decade can cause a hard reset to the way the mind will process all the complex mechanics that built up over the previous installment in the series.
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As another item type I think ethereal could be really cool =) Breaks after X amount of uses, so situational at best, but hell I'd use em for PVP =D
Combined with the fact that Rare items were garbage in D2, and many Unique/Set items didn't have a whole lot of randomization (one full Trang's Set is the same as any other Trang's Set) the high end item hunt actually had relatively few viable possibilities for any given build.
Just look at any online Diablo 2 character build guide. They will usually list 3 sets of items (Cheap, expensive, and top slot). For any given slot there weren't a whole lot of different choices.
In Diablo 3, all high end items will have extra random affixes. One windforce might have +Damage to Uniques and +Attackspeed, while another windforce has +Multishot Damage and +Dodge while a third windforce has +Discipline and -Enemy Physical Resist. This introduces the possibility of a "not so good" unique rolling exceptionally good random affixes and ending up on the same tier as a higher-level unique. The possibilities are endless, and no one will be able to list a "best in slot" because randomized high end items can be so different from one another.
Beta is not a good guide for item diversity because there are a really tiny amount of affixes available at level 13. Blizz has already promised +skill affixes, and datamining has come up with a few more.
Charms not game changing? I'm guessing the game ended for you at Baal Runs then? lol
Is it just me, or do i see abilities in there!? OH SNAP!
As for the OP, I feel like they are going to go with this game plan:
Dumb the game down in some aspects and hope that new boss fights and other content will compensate... on top of gutting entire aspects of the game like PvP and save them for future releases.
Troll sensors activated.. Okay, I'll bite.
The ability to proc spells and get a limited number of charges for other abilities didn't just exist on charms in Diablo 2. These things could have been rolled into other pieces of equipment and would in no way have impacted the final game. Therefore the charms themselves did not offer anything game changing over anything else that was already there. In this, I believe my argument is still valid.
Also, the charm you are referring to was added into the game years after release to deal with the rampant SoJ duping problems. If I recall, you had to take out Uber Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto to get that. An item that was added after years of iteration in the last days of a product's life cycle is a little unfair to compare to the beginning of another game's life cycle anyway. Diablo 3 has room to grow and still has more to offer than the Base level of Diablo 2.
Besides, look at that lack of inventory space just to be more powerful. Interesting game play comes from making sacrifices in one area to improve another, granted, but this should be in the choice of offense over defense, or magic find over survival... Inventory space shouldn't be a trade off.
I do appreciate the opposing point of view, but don't think you needed to resort to sensationalism to make it
They probably want to add enchants as far as I remember and this should change a look of your character and give similar effects as charms in D2 in terms of customization. I also believe that they will add charms at some point to D3 too but as they planned from the start as additional character slot for 3 or so charms and not a way to fill your inventory so you have no place to store your pickup items which was so dumb idea at that time.
I think blizzard wants three on three fights to be quite fair but not one on one. With this they don't need to create special pvp gear as groups should be quite balanced.
And the skills and enemies look really fun, a lot better than D2, the replay value should also come from its gameplay.
What's the real point of such items. Constant pain in thinking that they wear off?
If it's just for pvp then it's no no as it would cross the line called "no separation between pvp and pve". Find another reason to have them in the game which overgrow the pain of constant worry that they wear off.
5x more content to explore
2 different types of crafting, can craft much wider of a variety of items than D2
Items (harder to find good ones compared to D2) more time consuming
gems (way more than in D2)
yeah so D3 has the other games beat by miles.
And I'm not a D3 nub, I've been playing this franchise for a very long time.
Man, what you were doing since then. You just have one slot in your inventory It would be nice if you could put them all in a form of talisman around your neck which is exactly what they will bring back at some point and you will still have your inventory. Letting your inventory to be taken like this is from many point game braking. I bet it didn't cross they mind some nuts would fill their inventory like this. Though it seems you have nothing else to do with this character anymore having Hellfire torch already.
The guys point was it didn't change or give anything.
It just improved what you already have
Charms just layered what was already there, didn't add anything new
The argument is that there isn't enough to pick up or to find in the world. The argument for this is that charms do not exist and therefore there isn't as much diversity in the "item game" in Diablo 3.
My counterpoint to this is that charms did not offer bonuses beyond what could be found in normal equipment. Therefore, if the bonuses offered by normal equipment were diverse enough, then you could still have the same, if not more, unique item drops than Diablo 2 had in Diablo 3.
It has already been stated that new unique types of item affixes will exist to enhance our abilities. We also have more armor slots on our characters than diablo 2 had. I believe it's way too early to say that the "item game" for Diablo 3 is going to be worse then Diablo 3. I also think that comparing the full game plus xpack for Diablo 2 sets an unrealistic expectation when used to compare against Diablo 3.
Lastly, I simply don't agree with a gameplay mechanic that requires me to sacrifice my inventory slots for that additional firepower. I do not find it fun or interesting. This is a hack and slash, not a survival horror when I have to be picky about what I pick up and carry.
Hopefully that has made my thoughts on the matter more clear.
To be honest, I'm glad you said something about my argument. Forgetting about the skill procs and occasional limited use skills deflated my argument a bit and it gave me a chance to re-evaluate my argument into something more coherent.
That said the point in a very short note is that the game we are playing is new, and the concepts of complex space management are just not ready for the game at this time. Usually I would put more work into a post like this but I just lost literally 45 minutes of typing and really disgruntled about that.
It was weird too because my Copy button didn't work either. Sigh.
Anyhow you can't expect a game which is very New to be very complex out of the gate with tons of management systems. It has been over a decade since Diablo 2 and a lot has changed in the gaming environment, so Diablo 3 shouldn't have those complex mechanics.
I feel your pain, man. I did something similar fairly recently...
I just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to suggest the game should have "less" than its predecessor. I expect it to have a similar level of content, but that doesn't mean that content has to be an exact duplicate. What we lose out in one area we gain in others. We already have many more skills.. not just more skills but many more USEFUL skills than Diablo 2.
I think focusing on losing a tiny part of the game belittles the work that went into all other areas of the game. In short, not having the same content does not mean having less content.
Those mechanics were broken or they just cut them out for now and they will come back as a way of balancing the game without changing current items statistics which makes ppl often mad. Whatever was cut and for sure keeping charms in inventory was was just plain broken.
My point was more that the game is a decade apart. Here is the thing, you, me, and everyone in this little Diablofans community know about all things Diablo. Diablo 2 is a fresh piece in our minds. This is a very accurate fact that we all know that complex space management. My point was that this game is going to sell to a lot more than just our little community.
For them to jump into a new game, or jump in after having not played for a decade, Diablo 3 can't just go around and give you too much to play around with. They originally were going to have a lot of inventory management the reason they cut this back, I believe, was to keep the game from getting too complex. People who haven't been playing Diablo 2 within the past year aren't going to be ready for complicated space management.
I'm sure this is what they saw in play testing, that people new to the game experience and concept of Diablo found it daunting to manage so many different variables in the game. So they've gone back and said, lets easy people into this game, crafting items, that will be complicated. Managing gear with a shared stash for your toons, that is going to be complicated, not to mention different item sets for different rune configurations. For a new game, well over a decade since the last one, you can't just have a sequel act like the collective consciousness still remembers it freshly. This isn't a Modern War sequel, it is a Diablo sequel and decade can cause a hard reset to the way the mind will process all the complex mechanics that built up over the previous installment in the series.