In short, yes they have to listen to the majority of our feedback or what we want, or the games wouldn't be selling so big.
This statement is illogical, and in fact an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a statement that contradicts itself. You state that big selling games imply that they have to listen to fan feedback. This would only be true if listening to fan feedback were the only way to make a big selling game.
Thus, you are implying that listening to fan feedback is the only way to make a big selling game. This would mean it is impossible to make big profits on a game that was released with a closed beta with no community feedback. Diablo 1 was one such game and it clearly proves your point wrong.
You may say that I am nitpicking -- that they did get some feedback, and I'm sure they did...from friends, co-workers, or a closed beta group...but this topic was specifically referring to "fan feedback" (that means people on forums, etc, not beta testers) and you answered my question "do they listen to fan feedback" as "yes, to some degree."
I apologize for my mechanical nature to be precise in correcting you, but you should be more precise about what you say..
I apologize for my mechanical nature to be precise in correcting you, but you should be more precise about what you say..
Or you shouldn't be so uptight. The point is: Blizzard employees are not retarded - they will give the fans what they want, or they will not be successful. They aren't making the game so as to play it themselves, they're making it to earn big bucks.
They want to make sure they flesh out Sanctuary for us though, so that may lead to adding a lot more other things that could potentially upset the fans. But I have no worries.
This statement is illogical, and in fact an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a statement that contradicts itself. You state that big selling games imply that they have to listen to fan feedback. This would only be true if listening to fan feedback were the only way to make a big selling game.
Thus, you are implying that listening to fan feedback is the only way to make a big selling game. This would mean it is impossible to make big profits on a game that was released with a closed beta with no community feedback. Diablo 1 was one such game and it clearly proves your point wrong.
You may say that I am nitpicking -- that they did get some feedback, and I'm sure they did...from friends, co-workers, or a closed beta group...but this topic was specifically referring to "fan feedback" (that means people on forums, etc, not beta testers) and you answered my question "do they listen to fan feedback" as "yes, to some degree."
I apologize for my mechanical nature to be precise in correcting you, but you should be more precise about what you say..
Mahamoti, I applaud your attempt to make yourself look intelligent, but an oxymoron is a figure of speech that combines two contradictory terms. What he said cannot be considered oxymoronic in the least. Depending on what we're talking about, inaccurate perhaps, but not oxymoronic. What he statement often does apply to (to a large extent I would say), is sequals, which is what we're talking about here.
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"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will." -Thomas Carlyle
This statement is illogical, and in fact an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a statement that contradicts itself. You state that big selling games imply that they have to listen to fan feedback. This would only be true if listening to fan feedback were the only way to make a big selling game.
Thus, you are implying that listening to fan feedback is the only way to make a big selling game. This would mean it is impossible to make big profits on a game that was released with a closed beta with no community feedback. Diablo 1 was one such game and it clearly proves your point wrong.
You may say that I am nitpicking -- that they did get some feedback, and I'm sure they did...from friends, co-workers, or a closed beta group...but this topic was specifically referring to "fan feedback" (that means people on forums, etc, not beta testers) and you answered my question "do they listen to fan feedback" as "yes, to some degree."
I apologize for my mechanical nature to be precise in correcting you, but you should be more precise about what you say..
I'm quite aware of what a oxymoron is thank you.
I said what I said, and it's what I meant.
They know what the player base as a whole wants and they will most likely give the majority what they want.
That's how game developers make money, marketing. They find out what people like, what age groups like what, what the percentage of like and dislike is and usually go forward to the people that have majority. It's how they make more money.
My point was Diablo was a big success because they knew there was a market for it, people like RPG's, people like games, etc etc.
If you tend to "mechanically" read too far into what people say, I'm sorry.
Further more, this thread is to express our opinions on whether or not Blizzard listens, not to tear down what others say just to try to discredit them. It'd be different if it was a yes/no solution, but this is a opinion based discussion. Obviously on some points they have listened to players, on others they have not.
That's how game developers make money, marketing. They find out what people like, what age groups like what, what the percentage of like and dislike is and usually go forward to the people that have majority. It's how they make more money.
Firstly I apologize for being condescending towards you. I had a rough day and just kind of let it out by being a troll online.
As for the subject at hand, well...marketing is promoting your product not holding focus groups. I don't think they specifically tap into the community to see what percentage of people like/dislike this or that. With Diablo, they made a game..the community liked it..so they try to give the community more of that, and try to improve the aspects that they as a team thought were weak.
Now it's obvious that some of the fan feedback filters back to them, but I don't see any evidence that they try to respond by making changes to the game. I'm not trying to argue that they SHOULD do this...I wish they would, personally, but I'm not arguing that point.
The reason I made this thread is because the dev team has specifically stated that they DO listen to fan feedback and use it to improve their game. I haven't seen evidence of this, and I wanted to know if anyone in the fan base could identify any particular examples of them doing this, so that I could know if they were simply blowing hot air or not with that statement.
Since nobody has been able to come forward with any well evidenced examples, I conclude that the statement was hot air.
And just like any other "conclusion" being reached about the game, or Blizzard's process, this early in the development cycle, it's faulty.
We've seen far too little of the game at this point to be making such assumptions.
Nobody can make a definite conclusion about any part of it until the final product is being played-out in front of your eyes on your computer screen.
It's just like the conclusion to which many people jumped, and were SO certain about, that Diablo III was not being developed, because Blizzard kept denying it, and all of these years of waiting around, and speculating, were going to end in huge disappointment for those who believed otherwise.
There are instances where they made changes based on fan feedback. Made corpses stay for longer, made env. less clean, don't remember others but they do reply to fan feedback and make changes if they are GOOD suggestions that will fit the game. You would know that if you were following Bashiok's Blue Posts on the battle.net forums. He has responded to threads where people presented ideas and has said stuff like, "that's a good point or idea, I'll ask the guys about it " etc. Best way to check them is d3db.com's blue tracker.
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"This is the triumph of man:
Where there is truth, he must find.
Where there is destruction, he must rebuild.
Where there is love, he must protect."
World's Fair Exhibit
"God gave us memories, that in life's garden we may have June roses in December."
Blizzard says they listen to fan feedback in making their game.
I've accepted that statement on faith now but the only example I can think of them actually listening to feedback to make a change for D3 were the in-house Blizzard employees that didn't like the popup dialog system (that we saw in the first gameplay demo) which they later removed for the demo.
As for actual fan critics, there was the art controversy...and their response to that was to make pink rainbow T-shirts to simply emphasize exactly how much they don't give a sh*t what those fans who dont like the current art think. Basically, they were offended...and instead of taking the comments seriously they decided to try to do something equally offensive back. Kind of childish. Then they cited all the previous 4 iterations of art direction that was changed due to...once again...in-house feedback.
The reason I am making this thread is I want to know if anyone has any actual documented examples of gameplay features that are or have been changed as a result of actual fan feedback.
Please list specific examples. It will make me feel better if I can actually see some evidence that they are listening.
That Bashiok quote is older, they later said that corpses would have a maximum of currently about 30 and disappear after you leave the screen.
I'd try to find it but I really don't feel like it.
Did they say they would increase it to 30, or that 30 was the old number and they are going to increase beyond that?
I haven't seen this quote, but I was a bit put off by how fast the corpses vanished in the video. Playing Titan Quest lately, and they let corpses run into the hundreds or thousands, which gives a really nice slain battlefield effect after you go through an area.
Did they say they would increase it to 30, or that 30 was the old number and they are going to increase beyond that?
I haven't seen this quote, but I was a bit put off by how fast the corpses vanished in the video. Playing Titan Quest lately, and they let corpses run into the hundreds or thousands, which gives a really nice slain battlefield effect after you go through an area.
It was more like it was just being talked about, they said it's true the bodies disappeared so fast and they hadn't thought of a way to remedy that yet, then through reading fan posts they decided roughly 30 per screen and then monsters would disappear after you leave the screen.
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This statement is illogical, and in fact an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a statement that contradicts itself. You state that big selling games imply that they have to listen to fan feedback. This would only be true if listening to fan feedback were the only way to make a big selling game.
Thus, you are implying that listening to fan feedback is the only way to make a big selling game. This would mean it is impossible to make big profits on a game that was released with a closed beta with no community feedback. Diablo 1 was one such game and it clearly proves your point wrong.
You may say that I am nitpicking -- that they did get some feedback, and I'm sure they did...from friends, co-workers, or a closed beta group...but this topic was specifically referring to "fan feedback" (that means people on forums, etc, not beta testers) and you answered my question "do they listen to fan feedback" as "yes, to some degree."
I apologize for my mechanical nature to be precise in correcting you, but you should be more precise about what you say..
Or you shouldn't be so uptight. The point is: Blizzard employees are not retarded - they will give the fans what they want, or they will not be successful. They aren't making the game so as to play it themselves, they're making it to earn big bucks.
Mahamoti, I applaud your attempt to make yourself look intelligent, but an oxymoron is a figure of speech that combines two contradictory terms. What he said cannot be considered oxymoronic in the least. Depending on what we're talking about, inaccurate perhaps, but not oxymoronic. What he statement often does apply to (to a large extent I would say), is sequals, which is what we're talking about here.
"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will."
-Thomas Carlyle
I'm quite aware of what a oxymoron is thank you.
I said what I said, and it's what I meant.
They know what the player base as a whole wants and they will most likely give the majority what they want.
That's how game developers make money, marketing. They find out what people like, what age groups like what, what the percentage of like and dislike is and usually go forward to the people that have majority. It's how they make more money.
My point was Diablo was a big success because they knew there was a market for it, people like RPG's, people like games, etc etc.
If you tend to "mechanically" read too far into what people say, I'm sorry.
Further more, this thread is to express our opinions on whether or not Blizzard listens, not to tear down what others say just to try to discredit them. It'd be different if it was a yes/no solution, but this is a opinion based discussion. Obviously on some points they have listened to players, on others they have not.
Seriously though, you could maybe sound just a little bit more condescending next time? I don't think you quite laid it on thick enough.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Firstly I apologize for being condescending towards you. I had a rough day and just kind of let it out by being a troll online.
As for the subject at hand, well...marketing is promoting your product not holding focus groups. I don't think they specifically tap into the community to see what percentage of people like/dislike this or that. With Diablo, they made a game..the community liked it..so they try to give the community more of that, and try to improve the aspects that they as a team thought were weak.
Now it's obvious that some of the fan feedback filters back to them, but I don't see any evidence that they try to respond by making changes to the game. I'm not trying to argue that they SHOULD do this...I wish they would, personally, but I'm not arguing that point.
The reason I made this thread is because the dev team has specifically stated that they DO listen to fan feedback and use it to improve their game. I haven't seen evidence of this, and I wanted to know if anyone in the fan base could identify any particular examples of them doing this, so that I could know if they were simply blowing hot air or not with that statement.
Since nobody has been able to come forward with any well evidenced examples, I conclude that the statement was hot air.
And just like any other "conclusion" being reached about the game, or Blizzard's process, this early in the development cycle, it's faulty.
We've seen far too little of the game at this point to be making such assumptions.
Nobody can make a definite conclusion about any part of it until the final product is being played-out in front of your eyes on your computer screen.
It's just like the conclusion to which many people jumped, and were SO certain about, that Diablo III was not being developed, because Blizzard kept denying it, and all of these years of waiting around, and speculating, were going to end in huge disappointment for those who believed otherwise.
Where there is truth, he must find.
Where there is destruction, he must rebuild.
Where there is love, he must protect."
World's Fair Exhibit
"God gave us memories, that in life's garden we may have June roses in December."
John Barrie
The video at 4:20 he says dungeons look to clean and they're fixing that, and then corpses staying longer.
So that's at least two instances they've listened.
He quite clearly says, fans brought these two things up, we thought yeah that's a good idea, and now they're fixing it.
How much fan feedback do they need to respond to?
What's actually going to be counted as "proof"?
Well since I cited a source. Can we have a source for yours?
I'd try to find it but I really don't feel like it.
qft man i agree with you
Did they say they would increase it to 30, or that 30 was the old number and they are going to increase beyond that?
I haven't seen this quote, but I was a bit put off by how fast the corpses vanished in the video. Playing Titan Quest lately, and they let corpses run into the hundreds or thousands, which gives a really nice slain battlefield effect after you go through an area.
It was more like it was just being talked about, they said it's true the bodies disappeared so fast and they hadn't thought of a way to remedy that yet, then through reading fan posts they decided roughly 30 per screen and then monsters would disappear after you leave the screen.