America is sweet. where else can you write a book on napkins and become one of the richest people in the world. and where else can you walk down the street and say our president sucks and have 50% of the people agree with you and also not get in trouble!
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DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
In your opinion the US is the greatest country in the world, lol.
When it comes to healthfare, low crime numbers, morals, ethics, financial stability, creativity, culture, foreign affairs, federal/national affairs, economics, personal freedom, personal opinion, fight against racism, fight against discrimination, fight against corruption, and so on,.. then my country is 10 times more advanced then yours is.
and we know that because of your word? Why not post where you are from so we can do some research. Statistically the US has been and continues to be on top of the world financially. Even during a War we are managing to stay as a competitor.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
No i explained it wrong, me choosing between something that is real and something you made up that would be the alternative to what is real is meaningless.
You explain a lot of things wrong. I haven't made up shit. What is real is people out working to get money to do with it what they wish.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I think you are missinformed, you are working to fill the pockets of the rich bastards according to NoExplanation.
This shows your mindset to perfection. You will never succeed because you will never allow yourself to. You feel that all you are doing is making someone else more Rich by working for them.
Why don't you pocket some of that money and turn it into an investment to do something larger, to make more money. Oh wait you live in a shitty country. Location; I believe its called, "in my head." I think that is the most honest statement you have ever made and it goes with you to every post you make.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
And where do you think you will find statistics that are viable without going into the "internet" argument?
If your country is so financialy "on top" then why can't you pay for free healthcare, why can't you pay for economical and human disasters?
Holding on to your money to finance the army and rich people isn't called financial stability.
The gap between rich and poor is literally several times greater in your country then mine and probably greater then a lot of civilized countries.
I believe the answer you are looking for is, The World Financial Center in New York. Although most economic large countries have their own version of a World Financial Center. You should know where yours is if you are better off all around then the US.
As far as the rest of your post I have proven more over that I do have a brain and it works.
Why should Health Care be payed for by the government? Most jobs have a health care insurance that works quite well.
It works so well in fact that it's the leading reason that we keep our system the way it is. I would rather have my lower tax % so I have some money I can chose what to pay for. Health Care is already taken care of by my employer. There are many jobs out there that do the same.
Its a good system you and the other jackasses, like Michael Moore, feel that they want to pay more in taxes to have something that will degrade in time with the lean of Illegal Immigrants and people on Well Fare.
Yet our Wealth fare is totally different and WAY more humane and we have better working rates and we have good illigal imigration policies.
Taxes are high but we get two times more back.
In some extent we have free schooling, free wealthfare, free means of traveling and so on.
Wealthfare given by your employer may sound like a good idea and it certainly helps the "employed numbers" because you force people to get employed, no matter how bad things are.
We do it differently, we do not force people we give positive feedback for people that get employed, we do not force people to work but we give them lots of good, not forced, reasons to get employed and overal it is a WAY better system then yours wich does not only work in some extend in the shortterm but most of all works in the longterm of having lots of happy working people with lots of creativity (because that gets also stimulated) and inginuity and all those things boost economy WAY more then forcing people to work because of bad healthcare.
So you see i'm totally not against money, i'm even for money and a good health fare boosts economy and thus money. (it may require investment, but you said it yourself about investment so you kinda know i'm true)
Based on an educated guess, you would be living in Canada. Canada is not financially stable by any means. Yes your health care system is free, but it is far below the standard of the United States. A lot of your government realies on exports and that is why you guys have no sack to stand up against anyone. Because if you were to stand up and have an opinion people would cut you off at the knee's.
I am not knocking Canadian's. I have met a lot of good hard working people up there, but you have a high populist of Transients (People without a house or home) doing drugs and commiting petty thefts to get by. Your countries Liberal stance against this and its slacked attitude is what makes it a mediocre country.
Michael Moore made several comments about Canada's Health Care system. All of them were dismissed after looking at the costs. It would raise taxes 17%. Fuck that.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Yet our Wealth fare is totally different and WAY more humane and we have better working rates and we have good illigal imigration policies.
I'm not sure exactly what country you're from, but I'm assuming you live somewhere in Europe? Tell me if I'm wrong. But I have something to say about the U.S.'s welfare system versus Europe's largely socialistic model.
First of all, we definitely have more stringent welfare policies than most European countries. But that was only after it became heavily reformed by Bill Clinton. Before TANF (temporary assistance to needy families), our welfare state was completely bloated and ineffecient. There was no time limit on benefits so recipients could stay indefinitely on welfare, which was costing taxpayers a lot and discouraging recipients from looking for work.
The current model of welfare today in the U.S. has largely been devolved to the states. As long as states abide by the basic tenets of TANF, which mostly adheres to a time limit for benefits, states are allowed to innovate their own welfare policies for what works best for their state.
Many of the states' programs dole out benefits in the form of education, job training, daycare, and even cash benefits. Many families in the U.S. even have lots of options for receiving cheap or free healthcare.
I think in some regards, the U.S. could afford to be a little more socialistic than it already is. However, Europe could easily afford to be a little less. It is too easy in many European countries to qualify for welfare. And many people who graduate college expect to go straight into a government job. But countries like France, who have such a bloated public sector lack a dynamic job market. There's too much protectionism in the government and the result is a lack of private investment which has stagnated its economy.
I absolutly know nothing about Canada.
Exept they find it ok to hunt on seals.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
WTH are you talking about? We are not dependent on almost anyone, hell we stood up to the US with not joining your idiotic war.
Whatever you say.
Dopple, I really do believe you when you say you know nothing about Canada. You seem to know nothing about a lot of things.
The US government financial support system is to help get people back on their feet. We have a system in place for almost any incident that can strike a citizen and the government can step in and offer financial support.
The reason our government is designed that way is because we don't like leaching little turds that just sit around while the rest of us do the work. We care about the people in our great nation and we want to see them succeed. They cannot succeed if someone is succeeding for them.
You have shown your true colors through and through. You know nothing of truth about the US government. You argue and spit out anti-American statements without any valid information at all.
Other people, including myself, keep bringing up valid points and support that the US government is not what you have conjured up in your own little brain.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
What kind of failed semiphilosophical BS is this?
Where did you learn sentences like "you can not succeed when someone is succeeding for you"? lol
Don't give me that nonsensical crap.
Where are your "valid" points in favor of how the US is handling health care today?
I don't see anything besides a lame wikilink and the crap your giving me now?
Where are your points little boy?
It means that we do not support them permanently. Means they need to support themselves.
The points are all through this post and many others I have made. Darkjay, Goodguy and Siaynoq all have had posts trying to correct you when you are so obviously wrong.
You continue to post on here without any information. I have reported this thread and your responses as a troll post. I doubt anything will be done but maybe it will be the start of getting rid of you.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
I'm mixing the words health care and welfare, lol.
Anyways, my point still stands, privatized health care like it is now in the US is about the worst system imaginable (in a country that could afford a lot better ofcourse)
Ah, I was worried maybe you weren't talking about welfare at all. At least I still got to make my point.
But yeah, I'll agree that the healthcare system in the U.S. has become a disaster. And if anyone thinks it isn't, then ask yourselves why it's such a major issue in most presidential hopefuls' platforms. Unfortunately, just like welfare, healthcare will unlikely be solved by the national government and will more likely (as it always has) fall on the states to work out.
Most politicians in the national government lack anything truly comprehensible to say about healthcare reform. So far, it's still mostly rhetoric. But this is partly the problem with U.S. politics. People don't demand to know from their presidential candidates the details of their healthcare plan, nor do the candidates wish to explain in detail because even they can't possibly work it all out based on an outline. Our campaigns in the U.S. are mostly driven by the candidates' personality traits, not the issues they stand for. Or at least, yes, the issues they stand for, but they only talk about them in the most topical and rhetorical ways. But I can't say I blame them for that. One reason I think Ralph Nader never stood a chance is the guy was too smart for his own good. I think he really understood effective ways to solve many issues in America. But when he talked about them, he did so very thoroughly that people just weren't getting him. He didn't have many catchphrases or slogans.
Anyway, I think socialized medicine is a very good idea. However, I don't believe it needs to be fully socialized. For example, I'm not advocating at all that the government picks up the entire tab of hospital visits. But even if the government picked up ten percent of the bill no questions asked, that alone would make a huge difference in assisting people in paying their medical bills.
Socialized education isn't a bad idea either. Nor do I feel it should be fully socialized. I thought it was just appalling how pissed off people became in Britain when people had to start paying roughly 1,600 pounds a year to attend schools like Oxford. And Britain's students were so livid about this. But I was livid at their reaction because $3,000 a year to atttend a prestigious university is nothing in the U.S. I attend a not so fancy school and it costs at least $3,500 a year to attend. But a school as fancy as Oxford, I mean, to attend Harvard for a year costs around 40 grand a year. So yes, Americans pay a lot for their education, and I think it would be great if the federal government paid about twenty percent of our tuition, no questions asked. However, because we have paid so much into our schools, America has most of the top universities in the world, based on number of scholarly papers published each year as well as number of Nobel Prize winners from those schools.
But on the other side of the coin, if the tuition at colleges continue to go up, and it becomes more difficult for people to attend college, then this may demonstrate where we needed a touch of socialism in our higher education system. As politics and the economy become increasingly global, America needs to stay on the cutting edge in order to remain competitive with China, the E.U., and even India as well as several emerging third world countries. As college becomes increasingly difficult to pay for, and people are discouraged from obtaining a higher education, I fear what this might do to the U.S. in the long run. Hopefully, as healthcare in this country is reformed, so too will our education system. Both of them need a complete overhaul. I don't see how anyone can deny this. I don't think they need an overhaul to the extent of making the government, therefore taxpayers paying for all of these things. But I can't help but wonder why many Americans fear investing more in education and healthcare in the form of higher taxes. In order to take important measure to reforming these two institutions, tax raises are inevitable, but I believe we would ultimately gain more from these increases (assuming they're applied to the right goals) than we would lose from them.
Anyway, I think socialized medicine is a very good idea. However, I don't believe it needs to be fully socialized. For example, I'm not advocating at all that the government picks up the entire tab of hospital visits.
Seems he doesn't agree with you. He wants partial payment.
Siaynoq, for you to get even a partial payment, the governement would have to cut out a great many things in there budget. Hospitals and medication is not cheap.
For this to work, we the people would take a huge tax hike and the majority of voters still do not wish to do that. Otherwise it would have been done.
Healthcare system as you described it in the US is not the greatest, compared to full compensation, but when you put it into perspective of the Healthcare in place threw insurance companies, our medical care is top notch.
If we were to open up a 10% coverage that would include the NON TAX PAYERS. Which is a high percentage, do to the large influx of immigration. What are we at now estimated 28 million undocumented workers. Thats 28 million people not paying taxes.
The reason politics talks about the issue is because it touches the "I care" feelings of voters because they think it applies to them. Perfect world sure maybe. I would vote for something like this, if we could put something in place to keep out the 28 million immigrants. But I doubt that is going to happen.
To be fair I would agree that 1/3 of the 28 million are workign with false information and paying taxes. The only other taxes they would pay is sales tax which isn't going to cover much.
A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more. The system that is in place now works. There are a few hospitals that offer free medical to these non tax payers and look how well they are doing. Now imagine that across the US, no fucking thank you.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Seems he doesn't agree with you. He wants partial payment.
Siaynoq, for you to get even a partial payment, the governement would have to cut out a great many things in there budget. Hospitals and medication is not cheap.
For this to work, we the people would take a huge tax hike and the majority of voters still do not wish to do that. Otherwise it would have been done.
Yes, you would have to cut things from the budget as well as raise taxes. But we pay for lots of expensive things. I personally think education and healthcare are high priorities that we should be making those kinds of sacrifices. But like I more or less said, Americans hate paying more taxes no matter what it's going to. But I think a gradual tax hike to help the government front the nation's medical bill is worth it. I don't think there's a universal right or wrong on this particular issue. I just think it depends on where you stand ideologically. And I think most Americans underestimate the long-term benefits of making healthcare easily affordable.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Healthcare system as you described it in the US is not the greatest, compared to full compensation, but when you put it into perspective of the Healthcare in place threw insurance companies, our medical care is top notch.
Top notch if they're willing to cover you. I'm sorry, but I've dealt with lots of insurance companies, and my girlfriend works for hospice and my friend is an accountant for a health care agency and I can tell you through first and second hand experience that insurance companies trying their best not to pay out is not a conspiracy. That is one of the main tenets of their business practices: that you pay in as much as possible and they pay out as little as possible. So if you're covered, yes, you will get some of the best care in the world. But you have to get your insurance companies to cover what you seek treatment for first.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
If we were to open up a 10% coverage that would include the NON TAX PAYERS. Which is a high percentage, do to the large influx of immigration. What are we at now estimated 28 million undocumented workers. Thats 28 million people not paying taxes.
Illegal immigrants are largely getting free healthcare no matter what we do. But it is the actual citizens of the United States who cannot get away with not paying their medical bills. And they are the ones who need a break. If all taxpayers collectively fronted a percentage, heck, even five percentage towards socialized healthcare, then that would be a huge and important step to reforming our atrocious healthcare system. We wouldn't need to be as socialized as Europe about it, but it would at least gradually change attitudes in the U.S. that everyone should have access to quality care.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more. The system that is in place now works. There are a few hospitals that offer free medical to these non tax payers and look how well they are doing. Now imagine that across the US, no fucking thank you.
Listen, those immigrants you speak of who receive free healthcare are the ones who go to the emergency rooms. Legally, no ER can refuse treatment on the basis that they can't pay. So in other words, all hospitals are already like those few you fear. That's why you hear about ER rooms being overcrowded. Some more than others just because the illegal population is higher in those areas. But proportionately, it already is all across the U.S.
I suspect however, that you are one of those people who believe the majority of illegal immigrants are here in fact to commit crimes and not work. But the statistics of crimes being commited by illegals is greatly exaggerated. It's no more proportional to the number of crimes committed by actual citizens. Extreme right wingers tend to exaggerate the figures a lot. The same right wingers who nearly control half the country and whose proliferation of unbalanced wages have made the U.S. addicted to cheap labor. Who loves cheap labor? American businesses do. Who is willing to work for hella cheap? Well, you see where I'm going with this.
Well if republicans are so addicted to cheap employment as you say they are, then why are they so against illegal immigration?
Its obvious to me that the both of you live in a dream world were there is endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand.
I do not have to post any further on this because what the both of you are purposing will not happen any time soon. Being the Republican that I am, if or when a free system comes into existence I will not be around to have to worry about it.
Both of you still maintain that slacked attitude I would expect from a liberal or socialist. You want to punish the hard working for being better then you and make excuses for your windfalls insted of doing something about it.
Thats one thing about the US that makes it greater then any other nation, because your future is what you make it.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Well if republicans are so addicted to cheap employment as you say they are, then why are they so against illegal immigration?
Why indeed. However, I did not say Republicans, but extreme right wingers. However, if you wish to equate the two, that is fine with me. For the most part, I don't know why Republicans would choose to be against immigration. George Bush has actually been very willing to work with Democrats on solving this problem but the extreme right-wingers, or neocons, or mere Republicans as you call them have publicly lambasted Bush on this issue. It certainly is asinine not to work openly on a bipartisan solution to our immigration problem. However, many Republicans (such as yourself) seem to hold the belief that the American legacy of immigration ended the day your own ancestors arrived here.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Its obvious to me that the both of you live in a dream world were there is endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand.
I reckon you need to put this into context. I'm not sure where I implied that we all live in a world with endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand. But do you want to know who does at least believe in the former? Your typical hardcore Republican. Do you not like that I say that? Then I apologize, but I'm merely trying to keep up with your sweeping generalizations. In other words, as long as you will make statements like "A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more," then I am forced to make my own silly generalized, even non sequitur statements like, "Republicans like big business, therefore don't care about the enviroment." And that isn't a fair tactic, is it?
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
I do not have to post any further on this because what the both of you are purposing will not happen any time soon. Being the Republican that I am, if or when a free system comes into existence I will not be around to have to worry about it.
Marvelous, friend! Now that's the 21st century attitude. I won't happen in my lifetime, why should I care? But listen, how old are you? Twenties maybe? You really don't think by the time you're even fifty that some major changes to immigration, healthcare, and tax code will have taken place? How long do you think our current models for these issues can sustain itself? All politicians from left to right acknowledge that dramatic changes are needed.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Both of you still maintain that slacked attitude I would expect from a liberal or socialist. You want to punish the hard working for being better then you and make excuses for your windfalls insted of doing something about it.
How have I exhibited a slacked attitude? I speak very seriously, sometimes even urgently about these issues. Is it really so easy for you to excuse the things I've said on the basis that I'm a supposed liberal or socialist? First of all, my politics are pretty moderate. Second of all, when I've discussed socialism, I've made it clear that the U.S. can afford to be a little more socialistic than we are. And acknowledging, even warning of the detriments of a European social model.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Thats one thing about the US that makes it greater then any other nation, because your future is what you make it.
Yes. For the most part you are correct. And the U.S. has stayed that way largely because of concerned people like you and I who constantly question our government and fightt for better policies. That's simply what a desirable citizen does. However, I suspect the main difference between you and I is that I want to listen to people's ideas, not dismiss them on the pretense of whether they're conservative, moderate, liberal, or satanic puppy killers. Well, no, actually I may have to dismiss the puppy killers.
Why indeed. However, I did not say Republicans, but extreme right wingers. However, if you wish to equate the two, that is fine with me. For the most part, I don't know why Republicans would choose to be against immigration. George Bush has actually been very willing to work with Democrats on solving this problem but the extreme right-wingers, or neocons, or mere Republicans as you call them have publicly lambasted Bush on this issue. It certainly is asinine not to work openly on a bipartisan solution to our immigration problem. However, many Republicans (such as yourself) seem to hold the belief that the American legacy of immigration ended the day your own ancestors arrived here.
Immigration is still open. There is a process in place to make them legal immigrants. I was refurring to Illegal immigrants, that are working in the US illegally. For your information Right Wing is a general term for someone who is conservative, aka Republican. Yes there are different levels of Republicans but all in the same just differs from certain degree's and topic to topic.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
I reckon you need to put this into context. I'm not sure where I implied that we all live in a world with endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand. But do you want to know who does at least believe in the former? Your typical hardcore Republican. Do you not like that I say that? Then I apologize, but I'm merely trying to keep up with your sweeping generalizations. In other words, as long as you will make statements like "A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more," then I am forced to make my own silly generalized, even non sequitur statements like, "Republicans like big business, therefore don't care about the enviroment." And that isn't a fair tactic, is it?
First of all yes you did. By implying you want a free healthcare system for everyone, you are stating we have the resources to give everyone free health care. The truth is, we don't. The current level of vaccinations given during child birth varies for these diseases that you want everyone to be cured with. To get a company to mass produce enough vaccination for everyone in this country is ludicress.
For some information behind crimes concerning Illegal Immigrants. The truth is there are a higher percentage of Illegal's commiting crimes. Illegal Immigrants cannot apply for normal jobs that require citizenship and they revert to crime to gain money in an attempt to stay a float in our system.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Marvelous, friend! Now that's the 21st century attitude. I won't happen in my lifetime, why should I care? But listen, how old are you? Twenties maybe? You really don't think by the time you're even fifty that some major changes to immigration, healthcare, and tax code will have taken place? How long do you think our current models for these issues can sustain itself? All politicians from left to right acknowledge that dramatic changes are needed.
Really so there is no opposition to free health care?
If there was a way to provide free health care to those that have been fired or layed off, you think they would have instilled that. Being there is nothing in place for even layed off workers, what do you think the opposition is like for the entire US population.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
How have I exhibited a slacked attitude? I speak very seriously, sometimes even urgently about these issues. Is it really so easy for you to excuse the things I've said on the basis that I'm a supposed liberal or socialist? First of all, my politics are pretty moderate. Second of all, when I've discussed socialism, I've made it clear that the U.S. can afford to be a little more socialistic than we are. And acknowledging, even warning of the detriments of a European social model.
Well then you are a non partied citizen with slight view of a socialist. Call it what you want but your views are a dream. I will agree in a perfect world socialism maybe the way to go. But we don't live in fantasy land. We live in the real world and until we fix the people in the real world there is no sense in dreaming about the perfect world.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Yes. For the most part you are correct. And the U.S. has stayed that way largely because of concerned people like you and I who constantly question our government and fightt for better policies. That's simply what a desirable citizen does. However, I suspect the main difference between you and I is that I want to listen to people's ideas, not dismiss them on the pretense of whether they're conservative, moderate, liberal, or satanic puppy killers. Well, no, actually I may have to dismiss the puppy killers.
You can listen to the people, but its not the majority. Otherwise it would already be law. Thats how the system works. We vote.
Head thinkers of the US that support free health care have been trumping up ideas since the 70's you would think if it works it would be implimented by now 37 years later.
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"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
This about says it all how very missguided he is, he actually thinks hard working people will have to pay more on national health care then they do now on insurances. When facts of how health care works today in America points out it are the young and hard working people that pay the price when the elderly have full benefits.
And i don't count the elderly as the hard working croud, if you get my drift.
Having a national health care system governed by the governement instead of private corporations would be something to get used too but it solves so many financial, economical and health systems even if Republicans are in power and would make for a efficient 100% covered health system.
I have yet to hear one single argument in favour of a privatized healthcare system and about us living in a dream, is that the same dream wich lets almost all other developed countries beat your healthsystem easely?
You know the facts, so why not explain to me how the US is different so it can't adopt a better health care system when it comes to compairing it to the other developed countries?
I would certainly like to hear your excuse for that.
Canada's health care system has been a work in progress since its inception. Reforms have been made over the past four decades and will continue in response to changes within medicine and throughout society. The basics, however, remain the same - universal coverage for medically necessary health care services provided on the basis of need, rather than the ability to pay.
There are still hang up with the basis of need just the same as any private Health Care Insurance company in the US. Its virtually identical to the same need system in place for Health Care Coverage with the major insurance carriers in the US.
Immigration is still open. There is a process in place to make them legal immigrants. I was refurring to Illegal immigrants, that are working in the US illegally. For your information Right Wing is a general term for someone who is conservative, aka Republican. Yes there are different levels of Republicans but all in the same just differs from certain degree's and topic to topic.
I've never advocated a free healthcare system, nor implied one. I explicitly said that the government should front a portion of the bill. And a small one at that. You may not think it's large percentage wise, but relative to most other developed nations, it would still be very small.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
First of all yes you did. By implying you want a free healthcare system for everyone, you are stating we have the resources to give everyone free health care.
Again, I haven't even implied that I desire a free healthcare system. Doppel might, and I respectfully disagree with him on fully socialized healthcare.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
The truth is, we don't. The current level of vaccinations given during child birth varies for these diseases that you want everyone to be cured with. To get a company to mass produce enough vaccination for everyone in this country is ludicress.
Since I haven't even implied a free healthcare system, this point is also irrelevant. However, I'm starting to get used to your methods of argument, so that's good.
Consider this carefully: since illegal immigrants are technically breaking the law just by working here, that's what makes them offenders. And it is the cost of enforcement, patrol, conviction, and deportation, of these illegal immigrants that makes costs taxpayers money. However, it does nothing to indicated that the majority of illegals are here to do anything but work. Yes, it mentions that a certain number of those illegals commit crimes. But a certain number of any group commits crimes, all which creates a financial burder on taxpayers. It also says that out of the crimes committed by those illegals, drug trafficking is the most common. However, you seem to suggest that this data supports your theory that most illegal immigrants are committing other crimes, which makes other things cost more money? And if you wish to say that they are criminals for working here illegally, well yeah, that's a given. But none of this disproves that the majority of them are simply here to work. Basically, this article is out of context to the point you were trying to make.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
For some information behind crimes concerning Illegal Immigrants. The truth is there are a higher percentage of Illegal's commiting crimes. Illegal Immigrants cannot apply for normal jobs that require citizenship and they revert to crime to gain money in an attempt to stay a float in our system.
All jobs in the U.S. require citizenship. But that doesn't mean everyone reports or enforces infractions of this law. And obviously most of them must be getting work or else they'd stop coming here, right?
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Really so there is no opposition to free health care?
Aye caramba! Listen, I'm not big into caps lock, but I AM NOT ADVOCATING FREE HEALTH CARE.
Obviously I realize people are against free health care. I'm not sure what your point is. Who's denying people are against free health care? Or for that matter, who's denying there aren't people everywhere who are opposed to one form of health care or another? This tact isn't strengthening your argument.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Well then you are a non partied citizen's with slight view of a socialist. Call it what you want but your views are a dream. I will agree in a perfect world socialism maybe the way to go. But we don't live on the Starship Enterprise. We live in the real world and until we fix the people in the real world there is no sense in dreaming about the perfect world.
Yes, I have socialist views. So what? I also have conservative views. So what? I can't have my mind decided on an issue before even learning about it. I do my best to learn what I can, if the conservative argument makes more sense to me, I roll with it. If the socialist or liberal argument makes more sense to me, I roll with that. My thought aren't ruled by a predisposition. I merely try to assess these things one at a time with a dose of sensibility.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
You can listen to the people, but its not the majority. Otherwise it would already be law. Thats how the system works. We vote.
There may be majorities of thought, but you shoudn't underestimate the level of apathy among the typical American voter.
I'm not really advocating fully socialized national health care system, i'm using other countries and statistics to point out how bad the current US health care system is.
If you're not, I'm especially not. I just don't know how anyone could conclude that I am based on what I wrote. :confused:
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
There could be a lot of sollutions and it depedends on demographics of the US, you could even let states handle health care, would still be better then having a totally competitive privatized healthcare system based on consumption and insurance dictating your life.
Besides privatized healthcare being providers of healthcare, it actually is the states that spearhead healthcare initiatives these days. The national government has become increasingly out of touch with states and their demographics to provide viable alternatives to privatized healthcare. In fact, most domestic issues in the U.S. has devolved to states, while lately the national government is tied up with international affairs.
Because Dopple is an idiot I am just going to skip his post. I admire your opinions because they are based off information. So here we go.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
I've never advocated a free healthcare system, nor implied one. I explicitly said that the government should front a portion of the bill. And a small one at that. You may not think it's large percentage wise, but relative to most other developed nations, it would still be very small.
There are systems in place. They are called Social Security and Disability.
Now generally when you hear about the tweaks in US health care system they are refurring to tweaking the current system, Social Security. Clinton did a bit of this and I admired him for it.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Again, I haven't even implied that I desire a free healthcare system. Doppel might, and I respectfully disagree with him on fully socialized healthcare.
Good to hear.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Since I haven't even implied a free healthcare system, this point is also irrelevant. However, I'm starting to get used to your methods of argument, so that's good.
I am sorry if I took your posts out of context. It felt as if you were agreeing that US system is completely flawed.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Consider this carefully: since illegal immigrants are technically breaking the law just by working here, that's what makes them offenders. And it is the cost of enforcement, patrol, conviction, and deportation, of these illegal immigrants that makes costs taxpayers money. However, it does nothing to indicated that the majority of illegals are here to do anything but work. Yes, it mentions that a certain number of those illegals commit crimes. But a certain number of any group commits crimes, all which creates a financial burder on taxpayers. It also says that out of the crimes committed by those illegals, drug trafficking is the most common. However, you seem to suggest that this data supports your theory that most illegal immigrants are committing other crimes, which makes other things cost more money? And if you wish to say that they are criminals for working here illegally, well yeah, that's a given. But none of this disproves that the majority of them are simply here to work. Basically, this article is out of context to the point you were trying to make.
When you are refurring to most I am not stating the majority of the population. I am stating there is a higher percentage then the normal percentage of American citizens.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
All jobs in the U.S. require citizenship. But that doesn't mean everyone reports or enforces infractions of this law. And obviously most of them must be getting work or else they'd stop coming here, right?
No they don't. They require a legal resident card. Which is not the same as citizenship cards.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Aye caramba! Listen, I'm not big into caps lock, but I AM NOT ADVOCATING FREE HEALTH CARE.
That was aimed more toward Dopple, sorry.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Obviously I realize people are against free health care. I'm not sure what your point is. Who's denying people are against free health care? Or for that matter, who's denying there aren't people everywhere who are opposed to one form of health care or another? This tact isn't strengthening your argument.
Well thats the way your post was slanted. It made it appear that you are listening to the people and I or other republicans in office are not. They listen very well they just understand the money side of it insted of the feelings side of it.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Yes, I have socialist views. So what? I also have conservative views. So what? I can't have my mind decided on an issue before even learning about it. I do my best to learn what I can, if the conservative argument makes more sense to me, I roll with it. If the socialist or liberal argument makes more sense to me, I roll with that. My thought aren't ruled by a predisposition. I merely try to assess these things one at a time with a dose of sensibility.
There may be majorities of thought, but you shoudn't underestimate the level of apathy among the typical American voter.
Wasn't trying to knock you for having socialist views but the one you were refurring to was a socialist comment. I am just calling an orange an orange. I myself have a few Liberal stand points. But if someone were to call me on it I would not take offence like you have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Besides privatized healthcare being providers of healthcare, it actually is the states that spearhead healthcare initiatives these days. The national government has become increasingly out of touch with states and their demographics to provide viable alternatives to privatized healthcare. In fact, most domestic issues in the U.S. has devolved to states, while lately the national government is tied up with international affairs.
/agreed
8,9,10
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pking in Softcore, is like two deaf kids yelling at each other."
Systems in place to what? Compensate for the high price of healthcare? Cause that is what we're talking about right? If you're referring to the Medicare aspect of it, then yes, that will help pay for things. But only after you've retired and begin receiving your SS benefits. But younger people like us should know better than to rely on Social Security for anything in the future. At its current rate, by the time you and I retire, there will be more being taken out of the Social Security fund than is actually being paid into it. Social Security is one of the other great potential disasters for this country if not some drastic overhaul is applied to it.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Now generally when you hear about the tweaks in US health care system they are refurring to tweaking the current system, Social Security. Clinton did a bit of this and I admired him for it.
Most things Clinton did during his administration have already been turned inside out. Social Security and free trade among them.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
I am sorry if I took your posts out of context. It felt as if you were agreeing that US system is completely flawed.
I don't think it's totally flawed. There are lots of things about our healthcare that are superior to many other countries' form of healthcare. But my problem is not so much the healthcare itself, but the level of access to it.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
When you are refurring to most I am not stating the majority of the population. I am stating there is a higher percentage then the normal percentage of American citizens.
The article you linked to didn't support that either.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
No they don't. They require a legal resident card. Which is not the same as citizenship cards.
Okay. But my point is is that to work here legally, you need the proper documents. Whether it be a driver's license or a green card. And it's obvious that the ones we have the problem with are the ones that have neither.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Well thats the way your post was slanted. It made it appear that you are listening to the people and I or other republicans in office are not. They listen very well they just understand the money side of it insted of the feelings side of it.
I was not inferring that at all. Misunderstand is all.
Quote from "NoExplanation" »
Wasn't trying to knock you for having socialist views but the one you were refurring to was a socialist comment. I am just calling an orange an orange. I myself have a few Liberal stand points. But if someone were to call me on it I would not take offence like you have.
This is also something about you I'm getting used to: openly saying that I took offense in order to paint me as a crybaby. I could just as easily assume you have taken offense to try to discredit you. But those kinds of logical fallacies are in poor taste. I'm glad we understand each other now, though.
HAHAHAHA
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
and we know that because of your word? Why not post where you are from so we can do some research. Statistically the US has been and continues to be on top of the world financially. Even during a War we are managing to stay as a competitor.
You explain a lot of things wrong. I haven't made up shit. What is real is people out working to get money to do with it what they wish.
This shows your mindset to perfection. You will never succeed because you will never allow yourself to. You feel that all you are doing is making someone else more Rich by working for them.
Why don't you pocket some of that money and turn it into an investment to do something larger, to make more money. Oh wait you live in a shitty country. Location; I believe its called, "in my head." I think that is the most honest statement you have ever made and it goes with you to every post you make.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
I believe the answer you are looking for is, The World Financial Center in New York. Although most economic large countries have their own version of a World Financial Center. You should know where yours is if you are better off all around then the US.
As far as the rest of your post I have proven more over that I do have a brain and it works.
Why should Health Care be payed for by the government? Most jobs have a health care insurance that works quite well.
It works so well in fact that it's the leading reason that we keep our system the way it is. I would rather have my lower tax % so I have some money I can chose what to pay for. Health Care is already taken care of by my employer. There are many jobs out there that do the same.
Its a good system you and the other jackasses, like Michael Moore, feel that they want to pay more in taxes to have something that will degrade in time with the lean of Illegal Immigrants and people on Well Fare.
***Edited***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_States
Look at their references for their information if you like to know more. Jackass.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
Based on an educated guess, you would be living in Canada. Canada is not financially stable by any means. Yes your health care system is free, but it is far below the standard of the United States. A lot of your government realies on exports and that is why you guys have no sack to stand up against anyone. Because if you were to stand up and have an opinion people would cut you off at the knee's.
I am not knocking Canadian's. I have met a lot of good hard working people up there, but you have a high populist of Transients (People without a house or home) doing drugs and commiting petty thefts to get by. Your countries Liberal stance against this and its slacked attitude is what makes it a mediocre country.
Michael Moore made several comments about Canada's Health Care system. All of them were dismissed after looking at the costs. It would raise taxes 17%. Fuck that.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
First of all, we definitely have more stringent welfare policies than most European countries. But that was only after it became heavily reformed by Bill Clinton. Before TANF (temporary assistance to needy families), our welfare state was completely bloated and ineffecient. There was no time limit on benefits so recipients could stay indefinitely on welfare, which was costing taxpayers a lot and discouraging recipients from looking for work.
The current model of welfare today in the U.S. has largely been devolved to the states. As long as states abide by the basic tenets of TANF, which mostly adheres to a time limit for benefits, states are allowed to innovate their own welfare policies for what works best for their state.
Many of the states' programs dole out benefits in the form of education, job training, daycare, and even cash benefits. Many families in the U.S. even have lots of options for receiving cheap or free healthcare.
I think in some regards, the U.S. could afford to be a little more socialistic than it already is. However, Europe could easily afford to be a little less. It is too easy in many European countries to qualify for welfare. And many people who graduate college expect to go straight into a government job. But countries like France, who have such a bloated public sector lack a dynamic job market. There's too much protectionism in the government and the result is a lack of private investment which has stagnated its economy.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Whatever you say.
Dopple, I really do believe you when you say you know nothing about Canada. You seem to know nothing about a lot of things.
The US government financial support system is to help get people back on their feet. We have a system in place for almost any incident that can strike a citizen and the government can step in and offer financial support.
The reason our government is designed that way is because we don't like leaching little turds that just sit around while the rest of us do the work. We care about the people in our great nation and we want to see them succeed. They cannot succeed if someone is succeeding for them.
You have shown your true colors through and through. You know nothing of truth about the US government. You argue and spit out anti-American statements without any valid information at all.
Other people, including myself, keep bringing up valid points and support that the US government is not what you have conjured up in your own little brain.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
It means that we do not support them permanently. Means they need to support themselves.
The points are all through this post and many others I have made. Darkjay, Goodguy and Siaynoq all have had posts trying to correct you when you are so obviously wrong.
You continue to post on here without any information. I have reported this thread and your responses as a troll post. I doubt anything will be done but maybe it will be the start of getting rid of you.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
But yeah, I'll agree that the healthcare system in the U.S. has become a disaster. And if anyone thinks it isn't, then ask yourselves why it's such a major issue in most presidential hopefuls' platforms. Unfortunately, just like welfare, healthcare will unlikely be solved by the national government and will more likely (as it always has) fall on the states to work out.
Most politicians in the national government lack anything truly comprehensible to say about healthcare reform. So far, it's still mostly rhetoric. But this is partly the problem with U.S. politics. People don't demand to know from their presidential candidates the details of their healthcare plan, nor do the candidates wish to explain in detail because even they can't possibly work it all out based on an outline. Our campaigns in the U.S. are mostly driven by the candidates' personality traits, not the issues they stand for. Or at least, yes, the issues they stand for, but they only talk about them in the most topical and rhetorical ways. But I can't say I blame them for that. One reason I think Ralph Nader never stood a chance is the guy was too smart for his own good. I think he really understood effective ways to solve many issues in America. But when he talked about them, he did so very thoroughly that people just weren't getting him. He didn't have many catchphrases or slogans.
Anyway, I think socialized medicine is a very good idea. However, I don't believe it needs to be fully socialized. For example, I'm not advocating at all that the government picks up the entire tab of hospital visits. But even if the government picked up ten percent of the bill no questions asked, that alone would make a huge difference in assisting people in paying their medical bills.
Socialized education isn't a bad idea either. Nor do I feel it should be fully socialized. I thought it was just appalling how pissed off people became in Britain when people had to start paying roughly 1,600 pounds a year to attend schools like Oxford. And Britain's students were so livid about this. But I was livid at their reaction because $3,000 a year to atttend a prestigious university is nothing in the U.S. I attend a not so fancy school and it costs at least $3,500 a year to attend. But a school as fancy as Oxford, I mean, to attend Harvard for a year costs around 40 grand a year. So yes, Americans pay a lot for their education, and I think it would be great if the federal government paid about twenty percent of our tuition, no questions asked. However, because we have paid so much into our schools, America has most of the top universities in the world, based on number of scholarly papers published each year as well as number of Nobel Prize winners from those schools.
But on the other side of the coin, if the tuition at colleges continue to go up, and it becomes more difficult for people to attend college, then this may demonstrate where we needed a touch of socialism in our higher education system. As politics and the economy become increasingly global, America needs to stay on the cutting edge in order to remain competitive with China, the E.U., and even India as well as several emerging third world countries. As college becomes increasingly difficult to pay for, and people are discouraged from obtaining a higher education, I fear what this might do to the U.S. in the long run. Hopefully, as healthcare in this country is reformed, so too will our education system. Both of them need a complete overhaul. I don't see how anyone can deny this. I don't think they need an overhaul to the extent of making the government, therefore taxpayers paying for all of these things. But I can't help but wonder why many Americans fear investing more in education and healthcare in the form of higher taxes. In order to take important measure to reforming these two institutions, tax raises are inevitable, but I believe we would ultimately gain more from these increases (assuming they're applied to the right goals) than we would lose from them.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Seems he doesn't agree with you. He wants partial payment.
Siaynoq, for you to get even a partial payment, the governement would have to cut out a great many things in there budget. Hospitals and medication is not cheap.
For this to work, we the people would take a huge tax hike and the majority of voters still do not wish to do that. Otherwise it would have been done.
Healthcare system as you described it in the US is not the greatest, compared to full compensation, but when you put it into perspective of the Healthcare in place threw insurance companies, our medical care is top notch.
If we were to open up a 10% coverage that would include the NON TAX PAYERS. Which is a high percentage, do to the large influx of immigration. What are we at now estimated 28 million undocumented workers. Thats 28 million people not paying taxes.
The reason politics talks about the issue is because it touches the "I care" feelings of voters because they think it applies to them. Perfect world sure maybe. I would vote for something like this, if we could put something in place to keep out the 28 million immigrants. But I doubt that is going to happen.
To be fair I would agree that 1/3 of the 28 million are workign with false information and paying taxes. The only other taxes they would pay is sales tax which isn't going to cover much.
A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more. The system that is in place now works. There are a few hospitals that offer free medical to these non tax payers and look how well they are doing. Now imagine that across the US, no fucking thank you.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
Top notch if they're willing to cover you. I'm sorry, but I've dealt with lots of insurance companies, and my girlfriend works for hospice and my friend is an accountant for a health care agency and I can tell you through first and second hand experience that insurance companies trying their best not to pay out is not a conspiracy. That is one of the main tenets of their business practices: that you pay in as much as possible and they pay out as little as possible. So if you're covered, yes, you will get some of the best care in the world. But you have to get your insurance companies to cover what you seek treatment for first.
Illegal immigrants are largely getting free healthcare no matter what we do. But it is the actual citizens of the United States who cannot get away with not paying their medical bills. And they are the ones who need a break. If all taxpayers collectively fronted a percentage, heck, even five percentage towards socialized healthcare, then that would be a huge and important step to reforming our atrocious healthcare system. We wouldn't need to be as socialized as Europe about it, but it would at least gradually change attitudes in the U.S. that everyone should have access to quality care.
Listen, those immigrants you speak of who receive free healthcare are the ones who go to the emergency rooms. Legally, no ER can refuse treatment on the basis that they can't pay. So in other words, all hospitals are already like those few you fear. That's why you hear about ER rooms being overcrowded. Some more than others just because the illegal population is higher in those areas. But proportionately, it already is all across the U.S.
I suspect however, that you are one of those people who believe the majority of illegal immigrants are here in fact to commit crimes and not work. But the statistics of crimes being commited by illegals is greatly exaggerated. It's no more proportional to the number of crimes committed by actual citizens. Extreme right wingers tend to exaggerate the figures a lot. The same right wingers who nearly control half the country and whose proliferation of unbalanced wages have made the U.S. addicted to cheap labor. Who loves cheap labor? American businesses do. Who is willing to work for hella cheap? Well, you see where I'm going with this.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Its obvious to me that the both of you live in a dream world were there is endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand.
I do not have to post any further on this because what the both of you are purposing will not happen any time soon. Being the Republican that I am, if or when a free system comes into existence I will not be around to have to worry about it.
Both of you still maintain that slacked attitude I would expect from a liberal or socialist. You want to punish the hard working for being better then you and make excuses for your windfalls insted of doing something about it.
Thats one thing about the US that makes it greater then any other nation, because your future is what you make it.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
I reckon you need to put this into context. I'm not sure where I implied that we all live in a world with endless amounts of resources and no fluctuation of supply and demand. But do you want to know who does at least believe in the former? Your typical hardcore Republican. Do you not like that I say that? Then I apologize, but I'm merely trying to keep up with your sweeping generalizations. In other words, as long as you will make statements like "A large percentage of illegal immigrants are comitting thefts and crimes that up sales tax and insurance that makes normal people have to pay more," then I am forced to make my own silly generalized, even non sequitur statements like, "Republicans like big business, therefore don't care about the enviroment." And that isn't a fair tactic, is it?
Marvelous, friend! Now that's the 21st century attitude. I won't happen in my lifetime, why should I care? But listen, how old are you? Twenties maybe? You really don't think by the time you're even fifty that some major changes to immigration, healthcare, and tax code will have taken place? How long do you think our current models for these issues can sustain itself? All politicians from left to right acknowledge that dramatic changes are needed.
How have I exhibited a slacked attitude? I speak very seriously, sometimes even urgently about these issues. Is it really so easy for you to excuse the things I've said on the basis that I'm a supposed liberal or socialist? First of all, my politics are pretty moderate. Second of all, when I've discussed socialism, I've made it clear that the U.S. can afford to be a little more socialistic than we are. And acknowledging, even warning of the detriments of a European social model.
Yes. For the most part you are correct. And the U.S. has stayed that way largely because of concerned people like you and I who constantly question our government and fightt for better policies. That's simply what a desirable citizen does. However, I suspect the main difference between you and I is that I want to listen to people's ideas, not dismiss them on the pretense of whether they're conservative, moderate, liberal, or satanic puppy killers. Well, no, actually I may have to dismiss the puppy killers.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Immigration is still open. There is a process in place to make them legal immigrants. I was refurring to Illegal immigrants, that are working in the US illegally. For your information Right Wing is a general term for someone who is conservative, aka Republican. Yes there are different levels of Republicans but all in the same just differs from certain degree's and topic to topic.
First of all yes you did. By implying you want a free healthcare system for everyone, you are stating we have the resources to give everyone free health care. The truth is, we don't. The current level of vaccinations given during child birth varies for these diseases that you want everyone to be cured with. To get a company to mass produce enough vaccination for everyone in this country is ludicress.
http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html
For some information behind crimes concerning Illegal Immigrants. The truth is there are a higher percentage of Illegal's commiting crimes. Illegal Immigrants cannot apply for normal jobs that require citizenship and they revert to crime to gain money in an attempt to stay a float in our system.
Really so there is no opposition to free health care?
http://www.wpri.org/blog/?cat=5
If there was a way to provide free health care to those that have been fired or layed off, you think they would have instilled that. Being there is nothing in place for even layed off workers, what do you think the opposition is like for the entire US population.
Well then you are a non partied citizen with slight view of a socialist. Call it what you want but your views are a dream. I will agree in a perfect world socialism maybe the way to go. But we don't live in fantasy land. We live in the real world and until we fix the people in the real world there is no sense in dreaming about the perfect world.
You can listen to the people, but its not the majority. Otherwise it would already be law. Thats how the system works. We vote.
Head thinkers of the US that support free health care have been trumping up ideas since the 70's you would think if it works it would be implimented by now 37 years later.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/index_e.html
Health Care System
Canada's health care system has been a work in progress since its inception. Reforms have been made over the past four decades and will continue in response to changes within medicine and throughout society. The basics, however, remain the same - universal coverage for medically necessary health care services provided on the basis of need, rather than the ability to pay.
There are still hang up with the basis of need just the same as any private Health Care Insurance company in the US. Its virtually identical to the same need system in place for Health Care Coverage with the major insurance carriers in the US.
http://www.bluecross.com/
http://www.kaiserpermanente.org/
and many more.
The only difference to this and others insted of it being mandated out of your Taxes it comes out of your paycheck.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
Again, I haven't even implied that I desire a free healthcare system. Doppel might, and I respectfully disagree with him on fully socialized healthcare.
Since I haven't even implied a free healthcare system, this point is also irrelevant. However, I'm starting to get used to your methods of argument, so that's good.
Consider this carefully: since illegal immigrants are technically breaking the law just by working here, that's what makes them offenders. And it is the cost of enforcement, patrol, conviction, and deportation, of these illegal immigrants that makes costs taxpayers money. However, it does nothing to indicated that the majority of illegals are here to do anything but work. Yes, it mentions that a certain number of those illegals commit crimes. But a certain number of any group commits crimes, all which creates a financial burder on taxpayers. It also says that out of the crimes committed by those illegals, drug trafficking is the most common. However, you seem to suggest that this data supports your theory that most illegal immigrants are committing other crimes, which makes other things cost more money? And if you wish to say that they are criminals for working here illegally, well yeah, that's a given. But none of this disproves that the majority of them are simply here to work. Basically, this article is out of context to the point you were trying to make.
All jobs in the U.S. require citizenship. But that doesn't mean everyone reports or enforces infractions of this law. And obviously most of them must be getting work or else they'd stop coming here, right?
Aye caramba! Listen, I'm not big into caps lock, but I AM NOT ADVOCATING FREE HEALTH CARE.
Obviously I realize people are against free health care. I'm not sure what your point is. Who's denying people are against free health care? Or for that matter, who's denying there aren't people everywhere who are opposed to one form of health care or another? This tact isn't strengthening your argument.
Yes, I have socialist views. So what? I also have conservative views. So what? I can't have my mind decided on an issue before even learning about it. I do my best to learn what I can, if the conservative argument makes more sense to me, I roll with it. If the socialist or liberal argument makes more sense to me, I roll with that. My thought aren't ruled by a predisposition. I merely try to assess these things one at a time with a dose of sensibility.
There may be majorities of thought, but you shoudn't underestimate the level of apathy among the typical American voter.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Besides privatized healthcare being providers of healthcare, it actually is the states that spearhead healthcare initiatives these days. The national government has become increasingly out of touch with states and their demographics to provide viable alternatives to privatized healthcare. In fact, most domestic issues in the U.S. has devolved to states, while lately the national government is tied up with international affairs.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
There are systems in place. They are called Social Security and Disability.
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10029.html
http://www.ssa.gov
Now generally when you hear about the tweaks in US health care system they are refurring to tweaking the current system, Social Security. Clinton did a bit of this and I admired him for it.
Good to hear.
I am sorry if I took your posts out of context. It felt as if you were agreeing that US system is completely flawed.
When you are refurring to most I am not stating the majority of the population. I am stating there is a higher percentage then the normal percentage of American citizens.
No they don't. They require a legal resident card. Which is not the same as citizenship cards.
That was aimed more toward Dopple, sorry.
Well thats the way your post was slanted. It made it appear that you are listening to the people and I or other republicans in office are not. They listen very well they just understand the money side of it insted of the feelings side of it.
Wasn't trying to knock you for having socialist views but the one you were refurring to was a socialist comment. I am just calling an orange an orange. I myself have a few Liberal stand points. But if someone were to call me on it I would not take offence like you have.
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
/agreed
8,9,10
http://us.battle.net...ile/vadle-1714/
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/34530475
Most things Clinton did during his administration have already been turned inside out. Social Security and free trade among them.
I don't think it's totally flawed. There are lots of things about our healthcare that are superior to many other countries' form of healthcare. But my problem is not so much the healthcare itself, but the level of access to it.
The article you linked to didn't support that either.
Okay. But my point is is that to work here legally, you need the proper documents. Whether it be a driver's license or a green card. And it's obvious that the ones we have the problem with are the ones that have neither.
I was not inferring that at all. Misunderstand is all.
This is also something about you I'm getting used to: openly saying that I took offense in order to paint me as a crybaby. I could just as easily assume you have taken offense to try to discredit you. But those kinds of logical fallacies are in poor taste. I'm glad we understand each other now, though.
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