Blizzard, are you kidding me? Diablo 3, (the way it is now) graphically looked like it can be played on almost every computer nowadays... so in 1 year, no one on earth will have computer weak enough to not be able to maintain a screen filled with corpses (unless the graphics will improve).
As for too much movement of dead foes... I don't mind having a whole bunch of dead ghouls bouncing (as long as I make them bounce). Even if they move too much... it's always possible to reduce the effect of physics on dead enemies so they won't move too much (I personally won't care if they even lay still and won't move at all). Seriously... it will still be better than vanishing corpses... I know blizzard are trying to make the 3rd game less realistic than the past once and add style to it... but disappearing corpses? They took it WAYYY too far...
But there are more than enough workarounds that still acknowledge your destruction of an area. For instance...
My only gripe with this is that it still removes corpse game mechanics (like redemption). So let's take it a step further. We're fighting hellspawn right? How about... when we kill them, they disintegrate in something of a soft firey/ember ash effect after 10 or so seconds, leaving behind a decal of well... ash instead of a 3d corpse. Add some bump mapping, to make it actually look like a pile ash, and...
1. We maintain low system specs
2. We maintain corpse game mechanics
3. We maintain a sense of carnal progress
Not to mention different types of enemies could have different types of corpse decay, making the game much richer.
That is a good idea. I was thinking purely of bodies but I suppose the decay into something less graphically intensive like a sprite of ash or bones would probably work and it wouldn't take away to the feel of the game. Probably the opposite in fact. Go spam that to Blizzard:spam:
they may not even have a char that uses corpses,we dont know enuff about those aspects yet kiddies,the thing we have heard is that they want things fast moving and uncrowded soooo,who knows,personally,in all my years of d2 playing i never used corpse exploding,but who knows,lets wait and see what they do !
sorry but since almost everybody have 8800 series cards or better that can play Crysis at decent fps...this statement is like for console kids....
And for those that don't have that you will buy one? Besides, I think physics calculations are more involved with cpu than gfx card, AFAIK nvidia is developing something that gpu could also take some load of the physics calculations.
Even if there's no character to use corpse explosion it sucks. Just like an MMO, everything disappears, I've laways found that incredibly silly, but when MMO's are concerned I understand it. Here however it's completely ridiculous. It's admirable that they don't make some amazing graphics and forget about the other guys with a bit older PCs, but they are taking the minority into consideration when making the game now, and this is, imo, a really bad thing to do. Making decisions, changes and features to accommodate the minority is just wrong.
Apparently there wont be abilities that use corpses anymore.
But on the "everyone can buy a PC for Diablo III" dont forget that Diablo III will be released worldwide and not everyone is willing to buy a new computer for it. Reading whats been said about graphics cards, I use 2x6600 GT (couldnt really be arsed to buy a new one knowing i'd most likely get a new pc soonish) and with my current system (that wasnt cheap around 3 years ago when i bought it) I wouldnt be able to play Diablo III even with medium details.
I'm in Europe alright, its cheaper to get a new system and I will. But worldwide... no, not everyone will be able to do so. Blizzard is revered among fans for making their games accessible for everyone because the requirements arent that high.
Being in the computer game sales business, i know the reason Crysis (and Assassin's Creed) didnt sell that well was because of their impossible system requirements.
Honestly, i dont want to see that with any of the coming Blizzard titles. If it means the corpses dissappear, so be it. I personally care about the level of gore while fighting and the "real" feeling i get when i see the mobs fly around (whole or in pieces). If they dissappear afterwards? I personally dont give a shit.
Whats more important is for the gameplay to remail fast paced (looked that way so i liked), that the skills and new classes are awesome (so far so good) and that the bosses will require some more tactic to beat (sitting in the corner killing Mephisto with Blizzard while he waits to die isnt that cool) and a cool story to keep us interested. Oh and new loots too, of course! But there's no doubt about that, eh? ^^
Yeah I guess it might be a bit laggy with all the corpses. Especially now that there will most likely be a lot more monsters coming at you in diablo 3 than pervious diablo games. But there should be some chunks of meat or something on the ground that stay for a bit after you kill them. I meen even the mini-boss (the summoned guy) and the end mini-boss at the end of the video also vanished quickly. Hopefully they leave a little something in to look at in the finished product :thumbsup:.
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If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
the Siegebreaker burnt to ashes and summoned skeletons on his death. I dont think thats a bad way to vanish
But think of it realistically. How many actually stayed to look at the corpses for more than 3-4 seconds in the previous games? I havent and I've been playing Diablo II for 5 years. Theres nothing interesting with the corpses (if there isnt any skill for it, that wont). Thats a waste of cpu power that i wouldnt like to have.
the Siegebreaker burnt to ashes and summoned skeletons on his death. I dont think thats a bad way to vanish
But think of it realistically. How many actually stayed to look at the corpses for more than 3-4 seconds in the previous games? I havent and I've been playing Diablo II for 5 years. Theres nothing interesting with the corpses (if there isnt any skill for it, that wont). Thats a waste of cpu power that i wouldnt like to have.
Yep indeed. You might look at the more at the low levels, but when you get the skills of actions at least I kinda forget the whole thing. Even with a necro i just keep CE tapped and move the cursor to explode. I don't search for the corpses.
Being in the computer game sales business, i know the reason Crysis (and Assassin's Creed) didnt sell that well was because of their impossible system requirements.
haha yea I laughed when I read an article where the crytek blamed piratism for that Crysis didn't sell good. Lol why would it sell if 10% of computers can run it perfectly.
Assassins creed is nice tho and it runs pretty good on my computer better than crysis anyways.
Prices for hardware in Europe are higher than in the US. Especially if you're in a low euro-count pay country like Macedonia.
This hasn't stopped me from changing PCs every year or two though.
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Quote from "KonataX" »
lol it can still easily be a ranger since who said you cant shoot arrows at melee distance xD
Quote from "Archie" »
The Barbarian is from Arreat, a very cold snowy mountain top, but they are much tougher than normal humans, so they don't need warmth.
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Where are Barbarians originally from? Sumeria, or more specifically Mesopotamia, AKA Europe. Think the Alps and the Pyrenees
I generally upgrade my computer once every 3 years or so. Thanks to blizzard I don't have to upgrade it every year they make such good games that I keep playing many years of them. If I'd only buy FPS shooter games that I play trough in some months and then soon I buy another one I'd have to upgrade computer a lot more frequently.
So you could think like this. If you upgrade your computer when d3 comes with $500 and play d3 for 10 years its quite cheap.
Prices for hardware in Europe are higher than in the US. Especially if you're in a low euro-count pay country like Macedonia.
This hasn't stopped me from changing PCs every year or two though.
not sure how prices in FYROM are and how easy it is to get a new system often, but that wasnt my point at all.
There are people that simply dont consider upgrading every 2, 3 or 4 years. I generally get a new system around every 3 years, especially if a game i'm waiting for is about to be released, but for the casual, non-fan gamer thats not about to happen.
And believe me, most of the current systems will be old by the time Diablo III is out and these systems should be able to play the game at least at medium-high details.
WoW could run with decent frames on a 3-4 year old computer with medium details (said it wasnt in a raid) at the time it was released. Blizzard thinks of it the best way. Puts gameplay and availiablility over graphics. Even the graphics of Diablo II were half decent (if not crappy) at the time it was released, but it didnt bother us play it.
A bit offtopic:
They have thought about how much time they want to spend on different aspects of the game, and also about the quality requirements. You can't simply say 'we will spend on infinite amount of time on everything, so that everything will be perfect'. Some people seem to think it works like this. I am talking about people saying they want 7(or more?) classes. Do we want 5 good classes? Or 7 less good classes? Or 100 crap classes? Or 1 perfect class? They think 5 is a good number, probably cause it worked well with diablo 2.
More off topic: going along with what timmen said also remember that 5 classes were in D2 and it bumped up to 7 in the expansion so there is always more time to add in two classes if an expansion will give the benefit of time and balancing.
Fact #1: Blizzard's policy is to maintain perfect compatibility with shitty Mac computers.
Fact #2: The first minute of gameplay trailer shows more monsters being fought in a single location, than you will find anywhere in D2. Having 200 corpses in 2 square feet stuck with each other's head in someone else's butt, and thousands of polygons mashed into a shapeless form would look dull and retarded.
Game looks and feels perfect, and I'd rather have awesome physics and ability to play with corpses for a while than a bogland of static polygons polluting the environment.
exactly and pretty much everyone these days as a pretty decent or high end computer to run this stuff with ease, i recently upgraded my computer to handle the games ive got and the ones to come, if blizzard make the game abit darker and get rid of the vanishing corpses id be really happy and would spend my cash on the game, but as it is right now i wouldnt bother, for one reason only it looks to much like titan quest.
O nd 5 chars isnt enough make it 7 like LOD :P.
But its good that they are actually reading peoples concerns and complaints about certain things in the game thus far.
One reason for some of the brightness of D3 in comparison to D2 is that the art team is shooting for more contrast. There will be more bright areas to help emphasize dark dungeons and vice versa. Also, D2 came out with five classes and then added two in an expansion. I wouldn't be surprised at all is Blizzard did the same thing with D3, so you will probably get you 7 classes eventually. The corpses disappearing could suck though if they don't come up with a good compromising solution.
Performance is a faux-argument, and a damn good one. Look at the last two pages of this thread. This thread is filled with people trapped in the performance argument.
Thats what Blizzards concern was in the first place.
In the game, with the physics engine, for every monster there are physics calculations that apply even when the monster dies. Same works with destructible environment (havent seen anyone complain about that yet) that can be used to kill enemies.
The difference between Diablo and most games that use a physics engine (thats also the major factor of the corpses having to despawn soon) is that we wont be having just a "few" enemies around. We're talking about Diablo, players fighting hordes of monsters.
The one decent solution suggested was to disable physics upon death but personally dont like the idea. While fighting the monster would "behave" real. Physics applied and all and after its dead its pinned on the ground? I'd rather see it despawn.
Good add with the corpse physics! i love it, who cares if the bodies dont hang around until you leave the game just as long as i can kill something and play a messed up game of volley body with a friend im good:thumbsup:
Good add with the corpse physics! i love it, who cares if the bodies dont hang around until you leave the game just as long as i can kill something and play a messed up game of volley body with a friend im good:thumbsup:
i think that having corpses vanish AND leaving all their items on the ground after a certain amount of time would be a good solution.
But you can despawn enemies in far more creative ways that still actually leave evidence that you killed something. And if there's still an element of evidence that you killed something, you don't have to completely strip the game of a mechanic that played a sizable role in D2. To pin such a huge shift of art direction and game mechanics on technical limitations is ludicrous when there are ways around it that can still be very compelling - or atleast more compelling than enemies fading away.
agreed, the way Siegebreaker "despawned" summoning groups of skeletons at the same time looked awesome but again, having complex "despawn" animations would not help the performance. And i dont think people would like the "fast decaying bodies" we had in Warcraft 3 either. I wouldnt really mind that, though.
For the smaller enemies they dont really have to be any more complex than the witch doctor's fire ball. Infact, even less complex than that could look great without being too distracting.
I wonder what the performance hit of a persistent shadow would be? Or if it's possible. Basically... a slight dusting effect envelopes the 3d body... leaving behind a darkened, textured shadow to replace the dynamic shadow. It'd allow for more diverse corpses and be as simple as playing with a few sprites and decals. The trouble is programming a bridge to translate the dynamic shadow into a texture. This is somewhat more ambitious than my previous idea (varying piles of ash).
In any case my point is despawn animations will take up more clock cycles, but not nearly as many as persistent bodies.
My main issue is that vanishing corpses should be a result of art direction and game play mechanics, not the other way around. I know I keep going back to piles of ash, but I'm just one person. I'm sure a group of people could come up with alot more - which is why I'm going crazy telling everyone here to dig alittle deeper.
There are several mechanics involved with corpses from the D2 view that will probably carry over into D3.
class skills dependent on corpses
treasure finding mechanics -> checking corpses for treasure
corpses as weapons (summonable, explosive)
i would think that all these mechanices will carry into D3 - so the question is then with the performance issues what will be affected?
realistically this could be set by the player in options. so players with high performance machines can have many corpses, then ones without will have vanishing corpses after a time period (2-10minutes for example).
the only question then is does it affect player's ingame advantages with the corpses being removed after a time period (2-10minutes for example). in my experience very few players go back to search corpses or make use of them after battling through an area. in fact, corpses are only used perhaps in the first few minutes after or during a battle. i don't think this is a real issue, just something Blizz dev threw out as a tidbit about the game, and here we are chatting away about it.
i think corpses exploding with ragdoll effects is great visually, but unless it affects gameplay it's not that important to me.
now having a skill where a player could hide as a corpse to avoid death, that could be a nice new skill in D3.
As for too much movement of dead foes... I don't mind having a whole bunch of dead ghouls bouncing (as long as I make them bounce). Even if they move too much... it's always possible to reduce the effect of physics on dead enemies so they won't move too much (I personally won't care if they even lay still and won't move at all). Seriously... it will still be better than vanishing corpses... I know blizzard are trying to make the 3rd game less realistic than the past once and add style to it... but disappearing corpses? They took it WAYYY too far...
That is a good idea. I was thinking purely of bodies but I suppose the decay into something less graphically intensive like a sprite of ash or bones would probably work and it wouldn't take away to the feel of the game. Probably the opposite in fact. Go spam that to Blizzard:spam:
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Apparently there wont be abilities that use corpses anymore.
But on the "everyone can buy a PC for Diablo III" dont forget that Diablo III will be released worldwide and not everyone is willing to buy a new computer for it. Reading whats been said about graphics cards, I use 2x6600 GT (couldnt really be arsed to buy a new one knowing i'd most likely get a new pc soonish) and with my current system (that wasnt cheap around 3 years ago when i bought it) I wouldnt be able to play Diablo III even with medium details.
I'm in Europe alright, its cheaper to get a new system and I will. But worldwide... no, not everyone will be able to do so. Blizzard is revered among fans for making their games accessible for everyone because the requirements arent that high.
Being in the computer game sales business, i know the reason Crysis (and Assassin's Creed) didnt sell that well was because of their impossible system requirements.
Honestly, i dont want to see that with any of the coming Blizzard titles. If it means the corpses dissappear, so be it. I personally care about the level of gore while fighting and the "real" feeling i get when i see the mobs fly around (whole or in pieces). If they dissappear afterwards? I personally dont give a shit.
Whats more important is for the gameplay to remail fast paced (looked that way so i liked), that the skills and new classes are awesome (so far so good) and that the bosses will require some more tactic to beat (sitting in the corner killing Mephisto with Blizzard while he waits to die isnt that cool) and a cool story to keep us interested. Oh and new loots too, of course! But there's no doubt about that, eh? ^^
But think of it realistically. How many actually stayed to look at the corpses for more than 3-4 seconds in the previous games? I havent and I've been playing Diablo II for 5 years. Theres nothing interesting with the corpses (if there isnt any skill for it, that wont). Thats a waste of cpu power that i wouldnt like to have.
haha yea I laughed when I read an article where the crytek blamed piratism for that Crysis didn't sell good. Lol why would it sell if 10% of computers can run it perfectly.
Assassins creed is nice tho and it runs pretty good on my computer better than crysis anyways.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
This hasn't stopped me from changing PCs every year or two though.
So you could think like this. If you upgrade your computer when d3 comes with $500 and play d3 for 10 years its quite cheap.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
not sure how prices in FYROM are and how easy it is to get a new system often, but that wasnt my point at all.
There are people that simply dont consider upgrading every 2, 3 or 4 years. I generally get a new system around every 3 years, especially if a game i'm waiting for is about to be released, but for the casual, non-fan gamer thats not about to happen.
And believe me, most of the current systems will be old by the time Diablo III is out and these systems should be able to play the game at least at medium-high details.
WoW could run with decent frames on a 3-4 year old computer with medium details (said it wasnt in a raid) at the time it was released. Blizzard thinks of it the best way. Puts gameplay and availiablility over graphics. Even the graphics of Diablo II were half decent (if not crappy) at the time it was released, but it didnt bother us play it.
More off topic: going along with what timmen said also remember that 5 classes were in D2 and it bumped up to 7 in the expansion so there is always more time to add in two classes if an expansion will give the benefit of time and balancing.
Fact #2: The first minute of gameplay trailer shows more monsters being fought in a single location, than you will find anywhere in D2. Having 200 corpses in 2 square feet stuck with each other's head in someone else's butt, and thousands of polygons mashed into a shapeless form would look dull and retarded.
Game looks and feels perfect, and I'd rather have awesome physics and ability to play with corpses for a while than a bogland of static polygons polluting the environment.
One reason for some of the brightness of D3 in comparison to D2 is that the art team is shooting for more contrast. There will be more bright areas to help emphasize dark dungeons and vice versa. Also, D2 came out with five classes and then added two in an expansion. I wouldn't be surprised at all is Blizzard did the same thing with D3, so you will probably get you 7 classes eventually. The corpses disappearing could suck though if they don't come up with a good compromising solution.
Thats what Blizzards concern was in the first place.
In the game, with the physics engine, for every monster there are physics calculations that apply even when the monster dies. Same works with destructible environment (havent seen anyone complain about that yet) that can be used to kill enemies.
The difference between Diablo and most games that use a physics engine (thats also the major factor of the corpses having to despawn soon) is that we wont be having just a "few" enemies around. We're talking about Diablo, players fighting hordes of monsters.
The one decent solution suggested was to disable physics upon death but personally dont like the idea. While fighting the monster would "behave" real. Physics applied and all and after its dead its pinned on the ground? I'd rather see it despawn.
i think that having corpses vanish AND leaving all their items on the ground after a certain amount of time would be a good solution.
Paladin
SanctuaryInsight.com
its because i ate them as a wear bear
agreed, the way Siegebreaker "despawned" summoning groups of skeletons at the same time looked awesome but again, having complex "despawn" animations would not help the performance. And i dont think people would like the "fast decaying bodies" we had in Warcraft 3 either. I wouldnt really mind that, though.
There are several mechanics involved with corpses from the D2 view that will probably carry over into D3.
class skills dependent on corpses
treasure finding mechanics -> checking corpses for treasure
corpses as weapons (summonable, explosive)
i would think that all these mechanices will carry into D3 - so the question is then with the performance issues what will be affected?
realistically this could be set by the player in options. so players with high performance machines can have many corpses, then ones without will have vanishing corpses after a time period (2-10minutes for example).
the only question then is does it affect player's ingame advantages with the corpses being removed after a time period (2-10minutes for example). in my experience very few players go back to search corpses or make use of them after battling through an area. in fact, corpses are only used perhaps in the first few minutes after or during a battle. i don't think this is a real issue, just something Blizz dev threw out as a tidbit about the game, and here we are chatting away about it.
i think corpses exploding with ragdoll effects is great visually, but unless it affects gameplay it's not that important to me.
now having a skill where a player could hide as a corpse to avoid death, that could be a nice new skill in D3.
Paladin
SanctuaryInsight.com