For me Diablo 1 and 2 I really miss the offline single player. One of the features I really miss.
Diablo 3 I really enjoy the combat and it feels a lot more fun slaughtering many things!
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I generally like d3 better, and could never sustain interest in d1 and d2 more than a few weeks at a time (though I suspect it had more to do with dial up connections than the actual quality of the game; back in the nineties, dial up IRC chatting and gaming would run up my parents phone bills).Having to reroll and/or save stat points was boring. I much prefer being able to respecc, though perhaps not for free like in d3.
But there are some points on which d2 is clearly better. Music and atmosphere, first and foremost. Itemization too. I sometimes put on the d2 music while playing d3, and it helps. But the gritty feeling is gone. Re: itemization, I think the AH is part of the problem; the accessability of good gear increases people's standards to the point that drop rates can't compete. I would expect this to have been fixed one year after launch.
Yay, 271 cathan seals. Those were all usefull, sure sure. Still have not found a IK chest though in 10 years of d2.
If you wanted a complete set in d2, you also had to trade or spend 100s of hours doing pindle runs. It wasnt the selffound heaven you want it to be.
Hey, I'll check my flock of offline (ergo self-found) chars tonight, if I have one or more of those green Sacred Armors. Suppose so.
I do not want to derail this discussion because it's a great topic, but I want to comment on the "self found" aspect of this post (which might be better placed in another thread).
I personally consider self-found mode an inferior play experience to "regular" mode under the condition of a good economy system. Neither D2 nor D3 has that (yet, hopefully) for different reasons, therefore self-found mode is kind of a sanctuary for players like me, who fled D2 bnet because of the cheater community. Imagine being considered a noob for not using map hack. And that was only the smallest form of cheat back then.
Back to self-found: This sanctuary was better in D2, than it is in D3 because you could progress much, much faster and get virtually any gold (oh I miss that color, stupid ugly orange!) or green item via Pindle. It did take waaay longer than just taking your first high end drop and trading it for the one that you wanted, but since that was not an option to someone on an anti-cheating crusade..
Now runes on the other hand, or high end jewels or charms were almost impossible to find on your own.
These rare non-equipment items might be good for D3 as well..
They provided a way to farm and craft gear that had mostly fixed stats.
When RNG was of a concern it was for the endgame runewords. (cta/enigma)
The only problem with the runeword system, was those few "BiS" runewords were too strong(popular).
And it wasnt due to no alternatives, but just that they gave your character such strong skills (warcry/shout & teleport)
But the midrange and lower runewords were excellent to use compared to most blue/yellow drops. (and way more fun)
Farming countess and hellforge is a viable way to farm for enigma(or other high end runewords), without any use of bots and whatnots for endgame.
Else Some of the bigger features i miss from D2 would be:
- Ladder resets
- National chat rooms (before bots)
- Significant XP loss on Death (encourage to not leech in Publics)
- A2 merc auras, A1 merc with Lightning Hose
- Gems (160/60armor on wfzon)
- Horadric Cube
- The option to turn hostile.
- Hammerdins
- Furyzons
They provided a way to farm and craft gear that had mostly fixed stats.
When RNG was of a concern it was for the endgame runewords. (cta/enigma)
The only problem with the runeword system, was those few "BiS" runewords were too strong(popular).
And it wasnt due to no alternatives, but just that they gave your character such strong skills (warcry/shout & teleport)
But the midrange and lower runewords were excellent to use compared to most blue/yellow drops. (and way more fun)
Farming countess and hellforge is a viable way to farm for enigma(or other high end runewords), without any use of bots and whatnots for endgame.
Sorry, but no. Not in today's terms and not even under korean gosu 24/7 grind terms
Like I said before, something like a legitimate Enigma was like a fish in the Sahara desert. Though that runeword was as common as Mempo is in D3 these days. Because the cheating population in bnet was too big and people who didn't cheat their own items got them via trade.
Some numbers as a proof:
Enigma was formed via the runes JAH, ITH and BER. Jah was rune #31, Ber #30. As two high lvl runes could be combined to form the next tier, this means, it required 3 Ber runes to form this runeword.
3 Ber runes. In Diablo 3 terms, I'd say that's like finding 3 200/9/6 Mempos. Expect it to take a while to even see one (longer than most gaming careers) and never to find 3 on your own. You had to trade your way up to that point, but somehow everybody had an Enigma on bnet
You've given the best spots to brute force runes for yourself, that's true.
Let's look at the Countess: She had a special rune treasure class that went all the way up to IST (#24). She could technically drop higher runes via her regular treasure class, but that chance was about the same as on any other hell mob. I had to look up this number and found, that based on probability it would take 1121 kills of said Countess per IST rune. Accounting for the fact that you could also combine the lower drops eventually, let's say 1k runs per IST for simplicity's sake.
How long did it take you to complete a Countess run on hell difficulty? You know, locating the tower, the exits from lvl1 down to lvl5? You said, you played legitimately (eg. no map hack)? How about 1 minute, I'll give you that, might be too fast, but with luck you can be faster. That requires a fast cast speed and Teleport though. Which you have, of course, you could use your Enigma to port.. oh, wait
So, long story short, 1k runs at 1 minute per run equal more than 16 hours of straight, no afk, dedicated gaming time for one IST rune.
Given that we needed 3 BER runes to start with, which translate into 192 IST runes, that's over 3072 hours(128 days) of your life.
Try me again with an "I had a legit Enigma" story..
1st) the logic you employed to make it sound like Enigma = 3 Ber is just horrible; no one would ever transform 2 Ber into Jah, so you effectively need only 2 High runes, not 3.
2nd) High rune drop rates have been hugely increased in the (relatively recent) past, up to the treshhold where it's now very possible actually finding them yourself just by playing anywhere in Hell difficulty. I found around 1 in 2 days or so on average when I last played (Patch 1.13).
3rd) Indeed "farming HR on Hellforge/Countess" is total nonsense as HF only drops up to Gul, and requires a lot of time and someone to boost you; and Countess has a decent chance of runes up to Vex or so in my experience, but still the same chance of HR as any other mob in Hell.
1: Fine, keep your 3 Bers, don't get Enigma then. Or would you suggest a trade? On bnet? Hahaha, there goes your cheat-free stamp
2: Well, I looked it up, that was around 2010, looooong after Enigma was the norm on bnet. But still, almost zero times 16(that's the figure for Zod, right?) remains almost zero. There are way more D2 players that have never seen a high rune drop than those, who have.
3: Ok, we agree, but your Vex-memory is wrong. It was IST.
I liked how I could complete sets by just playing the game, i.e., farming. Even if they weren't great, or were low level, I could deck new characters out with them. It was fun to me.
Honestly, this was the one thing I was really hoping will improve and evolve the most before the game came out. D2 didn't nearly have a perfect system and it sucked when you got Isenhart's Case or something from Nightmare/Hell bosses and mobs, but still, sets actually dropped from the start of the game, and it was fun collecting them for new characters. What a huge step back from this is the fact that in D3 you most likely will never see a piece of a set well into farming Paragon on Inferno.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
D3 - SEPARATE LOOT FOR EACH PLAYER!!!
D1/D2 - Random maps
D2 - Actual use of low level sets
D2 - Cows
D2/LoD - Skill Synergies
D3 - COMBAT SYSTEM
D3 - Difficulty adjustment combined with varying rewards
D3 - AUTO GOLD PICKUP
D3 - Need of Gold
D3 - Full Game Farming
D2 - WP's into any Act
D2 - Merc's > Followers
D2 - Music
D1 - Spell Books
D1 - Atmosphere
D2 - Adding sockets
D2 - Unqiues > Legendaries > High End Blues in D1
D1 - Insane equipment with negative attributes
D3 - Shared stash no mules
D3 - Characters don't get deleted after a couple of months
D2 - Creating Games
D1 - Scared of every corner and opening doors
D1 - Doom Knights
D1 - The best Diablo end boss
D3 - Graphics (but that doesn't really make a game better and it’s to be expected since it’s newer)
D3 - Random events
D2 - Cube > lame crafting system
D2 - PvP
D1 - PK+Raise then PK again
D2 - Classes
If we could take D3's combat system, combine with itemization and synergies of D2, and give it a feeling of D1 then you would have something that would rank as one of the best all time.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
D1:
- The atmosphere it had
- How vulnerable it made you feel
- The Butcher
- Random maps
- The NPCs
- The dark, gritty feel it had to it
D2:
- The mercenaries, pets, and summons and how they actually felt like they did something.
- Gheed!
- Random maps
- Usefulness of items
- Charms, gems, jewels and runes
- Open maps that you can get lost in
- Act 1
- The non-linear feel
- Quest rewards
- The boss fights
- Stats that items would give you (immune to being frozen etc.)
- Monster immunities
- How excited you'd get to find a class item (of the class you were playing obviously)
D3:
- The combat
- The class abilities
I love D3 but I can't think of anything that stands out from the others for me D:
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Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Diablo 3 I really enjoy the combat and it feels a lot more fun slaughtering many things!
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I miss charging demons that come out from the darkness but that was mostly D1.
But there are some points on which d2 is clearly better. Music and atmosphere, first and foremost. Itemization too. I sometimes put on the d2 music while playing d3, and it helps. But the gritty feeling is gone. Re: itemization, I think the AH is part of the problem; the accessability of good gear increases people's standards to the point that drop rates can't compete. I would expect this to have been fixed one year after launch.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/
Hey, I'll check my flock of offline (ergo self-found) chars tonight, if I have one or more of those green Sacred Armors. Suppose so.
I do not want to derail this discussion because it's a great topic, but I want to comment on the "self found" aspect of this post (which might be better placed in another thread).
I personally consider self-found mode an inferior play experience to "regular" mode under the condition of a good economy system. Neither D2 nor D3 has that (yet, hopefully) for different reasons, therefore self-found mode is kind of a sanctuary for players like me, who fled D2 bnet because of the cheater community. Imagine being considered a noob for not using map hack. And that was only the smallest form of cheat back then.
Back to self-found: This sanctuary was better in D2, than it is in D3 because you could progress much, much faster and get virtually any gold (oh I miss that color, stupid ugly orange!) or green item via Pindle. It did take waaay longer than just taking your first high end drop and trading it for the one that you wanted, but since that was not an option to someone on an anti-cheating crusade..
Now runes on the other hand, or high end jewels or charms were almost impossible to find on your own.
These rare non-equipment items might be good for D3 as well..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
They provided a way to farm and craft gear that had mostly fixed stats.
When RNG was of a concern it was for the endgame runewords. (cta/enigma)
The only problem with the runeword system, was those few "BiS" runewords were too strong(popular).
And it wasnt due to no alternatives, but just that they gave your character such strong skills (warcry/shout & teleport)
But the midrange and lower runewords were excellent to use compared to most blue/yellow drops. (and way more fun)
Farming countess and hellforge is a viable way to farm for enigma(or other high end runewords), without any use of bots and whatnots for endgame.
Else Some of the bigger features i miss from D2 would be:
- Ladder resets
- National chat rooms (before bots)
- Significant XP loss on Death (encourage to not leech in Publics)
- A2 merc auras, A1 merc with Lightning Hose
- Gems (160/60armor on wfzon)
- Horadric Cube
- The option to turn hostile.
- Hammerdins
- Furyzons
Sorry, but no. Not in today's terms and not even under korean gosu 24/7 grind terms
Like I said before, something like a legitimate Enigma was like a fish in the Sahara desert. Though that runeword was as common as Mempo is in D3 these days. Because the cheating population in bnet was too big and people who didn't cheat their own items got them via trade.
Some numbers as a proof:
Enigma was formed via the runes JAH, ITH and BER. Jah was rune #31, Ber #30. As two high lvl runes could be combined to form the next tier, this means, it required 3 Ber runes to form this runeword.
3 Ber runes. In Diablo 3 terms, I'd say that's like finding 3 200/9/6 Mempos. Expect it to take a while to even see one (longer than most gaming careers) and never to find 3 on your own. You had to trade your way up to that point, but somehow everybody had an Enigma on bnet
You've given the best spots to brute force runes for yourself, that's true.
Let's look at the Countess: She had a special rune treasure class that went all the way up to IST (#24). She could technically drop higher runes via her regular treasure class, but that chance was about the same as on any other hell mob. I had to look up this number and found, that based on probability it would take 1121 kills of said Countess per IST rune. Accounting for the fact that you could also combine the lower drops eventually, let's say 1k runs per IST for simplicity's sake.
How long did it take you to complete a Countess run on hell difficulty? You know, locating the tower, the exits from lvl1 down to lvl5? You said, you played legitimately (eg. no map hack)? How about 1 minute, I'll give you that, might be too fast, but with luck you can be faster. That requires a fast cast speed and Teleport though. Which you have, of course, you could use your Enigma to port.. oh, wait
So, long story short, 1k runs at 1 minute per run equal more than 16 hours of straight, no afk, dedicated gaming time for one IST rune.
Given that we needed 3 BER runes to start with, which translate into 192 IST runes, that's over 3072 hours(128 days) of your life.
Try me again with an "I had a legit Enigma" story..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
1: Fine, keep your 3 Bers, don't get Enigma then. Or would you suggest a trade? On bnet? Hahaha, there goes your cheat-free stamp
2: Well, I looked it up, that was around 2010, looooong after Enigma was the norm on bnet. But still, almost zero times 16(that's the figure for Zod, right?) remains almost zero. There are way more D2 players that have never seen a high rune drop than those, who have.
3: Ok, we agree, but your Vex-memory is wrong. It was IST.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Honestly, this was the one thing I was really hoping will improve and evolve the most before the game came out. D2 didn't nearly have a perfect system and it sucked when you got Isenhart's Case or something from Nightmare/Hell bosses and mobs, but still, sets actually dropped from the start of the game, and it was fun collecting them for new characters. What a huge step back from this is the fact that in D3 you most likely will never see a piece of a set well into farming Paragon on Inferno.
Wow the joys of a simple hostile button.
From fighting off random pkers to pking some random kid with a huge mouth in games. That button brought hours of entertainment.
Diablo 3: release on 5/15/12 - My wife is pregnant with our first son.
What does this mean?
Absolutey Nothing !
D1/D2 - Random maps
D2 - Actual use of low level sets
D2 - Cows
D2/LoD - Skill Synergies
D3 - COMBAT SYSTEM
D3 - Difficulty adjustment combined with varying rewards
D3 - AUTO GOLD PICKUP
D3 - Need of Gold
D3 - Full Game Farming
D2 - WP's into any Act
D2 - Merc's > Followers
D2 - Music
D1 - Spell Books
D1 - Atmosphere
D2 - Adding sockets
D2 - Unqiues > Legendaries > High End Blues in D1
D1 - Insane equipment with negative attributes
D3 - Shared stash no mules
D3 - Characters don't get deleted after a couple of months
D2 - Creating Games
D1 - Scared of every corner and opening doors
D1 - Doom Knights
D1 - The best Diablo end boss
D3 - Graphics (but that doesn't really make a game better and it’s to be expected since it’s newer)
D3 - Random events
D2 - Cube > lame crafting system
D2 - PvP
D1 - PK+Raise then PK again
D2 - Classes
If we could take D3's combat system, combine with itemization and synergies of D2, and give it a feeling of D1 then you would have something that would rank as one of the best all time.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
- The atmosphere it had
- How vulnerable it made you feel
- The Butcher
- Random maps
- The NPCs
- The dark, gritty feel it had to it
D2:
- The mercenaries, pets, and summons and how they actually felt like they did something.
- Gheed!
- Random maps
- Usefulness of items
- Charms, gems, jewels and runes
- Open maps that you can get lost in
- Act 1
- The non-linear feel
- Quest rewards
- The boss fights
- Stats that items would give you (immune to being frozen etc.)
- Monster immunities
- How excited you'd get to find a class item (of the class you were playing obviously)
D3:
- The combat
- The class abilities
I love D3 but I can't think of anything that stands out from the others for me D:
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Apocalypse :love: