I'm totally not trying to m2+potato = you. Just trying to get the idea behind BP effectiveness. Lets say I got 2.00 to attack speed and 50% CHC. In theory would you not crit once per attack? two attack with 50% chance would/should be 1 crit. Why is this more effective than simply trying to crit once per attack? Someone mentioned a huge dps gain from BP crit. Why? Does it rng to max chd or something? IIRC this maybe old data, doesn't chd rng from 1-X, X being your cap on chd? So one crit from BP could actually be pretty weak compared to more crits which would give a higher chance at a big chd? Not to mention it could happen once per attack instead of once per five?
What am I looking at wrong? I too looked at BP and my mind started pondering ideas, after some thought the above was my conclusion. What am I missing?
For a lot of builds its not worth it but imagine having a bunch of DOTs stacked on an enemy that are critting every single tic. Or a meteor shower with a 100% crit chance. Like I said this ring needs to be built around, you can't just throw it on your favourite build and expect to work
I'll test in weekend Broken Promises especially for Uliana with the new changes for The Fist of Az'Turrasq (250-300%), I need to craft/find again ancient because is not retroactive for non sets. I'l try combination with Endless Walk (While moving, damage taken is reduced by up to 50% While standing still, damage dealt is increased by up to 100%), etc...I have a lot of combinations in mind.
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I'm BAD (abbreviation from my name)... also, known as Archangel and other names.
I serve light and darkness, I'm hybrid. I'm anti "syndrome of good" (fake appearance of so "called" good), pure good and pure evil.
Good in war is a clown, good only can win if use the weapons of bad (evil): kill, etc...Good is the supreme hypocrite.
Throwing out the idea : using thorns in combination with hack try activate BP. Then use then appropriate skill to benefit from the proc. As thorns can't crit, it may workout to give a nice uprime.
hmm...that ring indeed has big potential. Am usin it on Norvald's Favor crusader build. Build with 2h flail+shield set, rorg, broken promises and convention of elements with 5Akhan/2Invoker. Thorns build with steed charge and bombardment. And funny thing while thorns do not benefit from cc and cd... Bombardment and charge yup steed charge can one shot elite on t10 and bombardment on 60gr besides it's pure speeeed. I really enjoy it's gameplay and therefore I think that ring was worthwhile for testing :).
I'm totally not trying to m2+potato = you. Just trying to get the idea behind BP effectiveness. Lets say I got 2.00 to attack speed and 50% CHC. In theory would you not crit once per attack? two attack with 50% chance would/should be 1 crit. Why is this more effective than simply trying to crit once per attack? Someone mentioned a huge dps gain from BP crit. Why? Does it rng to max chd or something? IIRC this maybe old data, doesn't chd rng from 1-X, X being your cap on chd? So one crit from BP could actually be pretty weak compared to more crits which would give a higher chance at a big chd? Not to mention it could happen once per attack instead of once per five?
What am I looking at wrong? I too looked at BP and my mind started pondering ideas, after some thought the above was my conclusion. What am I missing?
For a lot of builds its not worth it but imagine having a bunch of DOTs stacked on an enemy that are critting every single tic. Or a meteor shower with a 100% crit chance. Like I said this ring needs to be built around, you can't just throw it on your favourite build and expect to work
The benefit comes from 2 main things
1. Skills that cant crit factor in your chc and chd into the damage on every hit. So if bp has a good uptime you can have a higher average crit chance which means more dmg. This also goes for skills with a CD that contribute heaps to your dps like SSS so if your able to time your skills well you can give your main damage dealers near 100% crit while your filler skills proc bp and dont benefit as much from chc
2. in order to get max crit (excluding bonuses from skills and passives) you need to use a spot on 6 items (7 if you have an offhand) which can be replaced if your using bp.
And no CHD is not a range its a fixed number. So if you have 50% crit and 400% chd 1/2 of all hits will hit for +400% dmg the other 1/2 will hit for not crit dmg. Skills that cant crit will hit for 1+ (.5 x 4) dmg per hit or 3x normal dmg
I thought CHD was a range, there you go. I guess then the only variation is from my actual damage. Also good to know how non-crit skills actually interact with CHC and CHD.
Damage is good with BP if you can get that uptime because you can stack extra mainstat (especially on amulet). I'm not sure if stacking min-max damage, attack speed or mainstat would be best but I just use mainstat for the extra defense.
My Monk can crit on average for 5b with Deadly Reach (2pc Raiment, DD, Shenlongs) which decimates enemies around GR60 when numbers are yellow. But when there's too many mobs BP just will not proc and I end up having to run away to space out enemies, which is terribly counter productive.
Sweeping Wind helps me get some uptime but it takes up a skill slot which is rough. I've tried replacing the spender and not using F&R but the damage was noticably lower. My next attempt will be something that can run without CDR as that frees up more stats on gear and a skill slot in place of Epiphany. Though not using Epiphany is very hard, being at GR60+ without Unity is already scary enough as it is.
Enough about my build though, im hoping that after 2.4 we'll be able to try out a few more builds with BP. I'm already planning a Sleet Storm wizard and that rune seems to play friendly enough with BP, so it may be worth investigating. The new Sweeping Wind monk seems like it could work with it too seeing how SW procs BP quite well. Anyone tried BP with Whirlwind Barb yet??
i was planning to build an jade BP ... and look for an window with the full 100% CHC to dot and harvest (since haunt and LS snapshot)
Some dots do, some dont. Ones that do crit inbetween ticks, ones that dont just takes CHC into account for damage calc (this is how it works as far as i understad)
While we're still talking about WD, Haunt and Locust Swarm can't crit, which makes Jade Harvester look the most appealing for BP. Spiders could be added as they can proc the ring decently and as a proc for F&R. Im curious how Soul Harvest would interact, that is, at 100CHC would it absorb all remaining DOTs as if they were at 100CHC? Unfortunately there's no physical rune for Haunt, so Poison or Cold seem like the 2 best candidates (possibly fire). Personally i'd probably be running ORotZ, Unity and BP, so no spiders. 2pc JH Haunt + ORotZ works very well without requiring RCR. Rush of Essence also provides insane amounts of mana regen to allow for another spender (probably Piranhas)
You and several other people seem to be missing some info about how to effectively use Broken Promises.
Yea there are break points for IAS however you need to factor in the proc coefficients when you theory craft.
Say you use a monk. people automatically assumes fastest to 5 hits is best way to go. However by default you have 5% CHC on your character. The best skill to use for BP is Fist of thunder : static charge. or thunderclap. Both have a 42.7% Proc. however SC has a secondary proc of 30.8%. an extremely low proc coefficient will diminish the value of your 5% base CHC. Think about it, why do you use a dual generator for static charge monk? because WOTHF: fist of fury on its 3rd hit has a 100% proc coefficient.
If you do not factor these procs into your theory you be in this infinite loop.
You and several other people seem to be missing some info about how to effectively use Broken Promises.
Yea there are break points for IAS however you need to factor in the proc coefficients when you theory craft.
Say you use a monk. people automatically assumes fastest to 5 hits is best way to go. However by default you have 5% CHC on your character. The best skill to use for BP is Fist of thunder : static charge. or thunderclap. Both have a 42.7% Proc. however SC has a secondary proc of 30.8%. an extremely low proc coefficient will diminish the value of your 5% base CHC. Think about it, why do you use a dual generator for static charge monk? because WOTHF: fist of fury on its 3rd hit has a 100% proc coefficient.
If you do not factor these procs into your theory you be in this infinite loop.
Does proc coefficients effect crit chance? I am confused.
Think about it, why do you use a dual generator for static charge monk? because WOTHF: fist of fury on its 3rd hit has a 100% proc coefficient.
Actually the DOT from FoF has an insane proc rate. Using SW:Cyclone + Mirinae you can run up, punch a mob, run away and watch the fireworks happen. The 3 hits are actually pretty pathetic compared to the DOT.
Bro start getting some facts straight before you interrupt some good conversation with this shit.
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That's quite the point though. Cubed BP is okay just because nearly every common build runs F&R obviously.
Maybe 2.4 brings some alternate setups to make more use of BP. I'd really like that just because it'd be a bit out of the box playstyle
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dots do not crit right?
i was planning to build an jade BP ... and look for an window with the full 100% CHC to dot and harvest (since haunt and LS snapshot)
They don't crit, but crit and critdmg is calculated in their dmg.
yep. 2.4 Jade Harvest hopefully.
I'll test in weekend Broken Promises especially for Uliana with the new changes for The Fist of Az'Turrasq (250-300%), I need to craft/find again ancient because is not retroactive for non sets. I'l try combination with Endless Walk (While moving, damage taken is reduced by up to 50% While standing still, damage dealt is increased by up to 100%), etc...I have a lot of combinations in mind.
I'm BAD (abbreviation from my name)... also, known as Archangel and other names.
I serve light and darkness, I'm hybrid. I'm anti "syndrome of good" (fake appearance of so "called" good), pure good and pure evil.
Good in war is a clown, good only can win if use the weapons of bad (evil): kill, etc...Good is the supreme hypocrite.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Archangel2736
Throwing out the idea : using thorns in combination with hack try activate BP. Then use then appropriate skill to benefit from the proc. As thorns can't crit, it may workout to give a nice uprime.
hmm...that ring indeed has big potential. Am usin it on Norvald's Favor crusader build. Build with 2h flail+shield set, rorg, broken promises and convention of elements with 5Akhan/2Invoker. Thorns build with steed charge and bombardment. And funny thing while thorns do not benefit from cc and cd... Bombardment and charge yup
steed charge can one shot elite on t10 and bombardment on 60gr 
besides it's pure speeeed. I really enjoy it's gameplay and therefore I think that ring was worthwhile for testing :).
cheeryo!
1. Skills that cant crit factor in your chc and chd into the damage on every hit. So if bp has a good uptime you can have a higher average crit chance which means more dmg. This also goes for skills with a CD that contribute heaps to your dps like SSS so if your able to time your skills well you can give your main damage dealers near 100% crit while your filler skills proc bp and dont benefit as much from chc
2. in order to get max crit (excluding bonuses from skills and passives) you need to use a spot on 6 items (7 if you have an offhand) which can be replaced if your using bp.
And no CHD is not a range its a fixed number. So if you have 50% crit and 400% chd 1/2 of all hits will hit for +400% dmg the other 1/2 will hit for not crit dmg. Skills that cant crit will hit for 1+ (.5 x 4) dmg per hit or 3x normal dmg
I thought CHD was a range, there you go. I guess then the only variation is from my actual damage. Also good to know how non-crit skills actually interact with CHC and CHD.
Damage is good with BP if you can get that uptime because you can stack extra mainstat (especially on amulet). I'm not sure if stacking min-max damage, attack speed or mainstat would be best but I just use mainstat for the extra defense.
My Monk can crit on average for 5b with Deadly Reach (2pc Raiment, DD, Shenlongs) which decimates enemies around GR60 when numbers are yellow. But when there's too many mobs BP just will not proc and I end up having to run away to space out enemies, which is terribly counter productive.
Sweeping Wind helps me get some uptime but it takes up a skill slot which is rough. I've tried replacing the spender and not using F&R but the damage was noticably lower. My next attempt will be something that can run without CDR as that frees up more stats on gear and a skill slot in place of Epiphany. Though not using Epiphany is very hard, being at GR60+ without Unity is already scary enough as it is.
Enough about my build though, im hoping that after 2.4 we'll be able to try out a few more builds with BP. I'm already planning a Sleet Storm wizard and that rune seems to play friendly enough with BP, so it may be worth investigating. The new Sweeping Wind monk seems like it could work with it too seeing how SW procs BP quite well. Anyone tried BP with Whirlwind Barb yet??
I made a a (correct) mathematical and simulation analysis of BP here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16412122125?page=2#38
With discussion on the following posts.
Thought this might help.
While we're still talking about WD, Haunt and Locust Swarm can't crit, which makes Jade Harvester look the most appealing for BP. Spiders could be added as they can proc the ring decently and as a proc for F&R. Im curious how Soul Harvest would interact, that is, at 100CHC would it absorb all remaining DOTs as if they were at 100CHC? Unfortunately there's no physical rune for Haunt, so Poison or Cold seem like the 2 best candidates (possibly fire). Personally i'd probably be running ORotZ, Unity and BP, so no spiders. 2pc JH Haunt + ORotZ works very well without requiring RCR. Rush of Essence also provides insane amounts of mana regen to allow for another spender (probably Piranhas)
You and several other people seem to be missing some info about how to effectively use Broken Promises.
Yea there are break points for IAS however you need to factor in the proc coefficients when you theory craft.
Say you use a monk. people automatically assumes fastest to 5 hits is best way to go. However by default you have 5% CHC on your character. The best skill to use for BP is Fist of thunder : static charge. or thunderclap. Both have a 42.7% Proc. however SC has a secondary proc of 30.8%. an extremely low proc coefficient will diminish the value of your 5% base CHC. Think about it, why do you use a dual generator for static charge monk? because WOTHF: fist of fury on its 3rd hit has a 100% proc coefficient.
If you do not factor these procs into your theory you be in this infinite loop.
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No it doesn't. Proc chance may have an impact on other aspects of how your build works, but it has zero impact on Broken Promises.
5 non-crits, it activates, a single crit, it resets the counter. Proc rate literally has nothing to do with this
Bro start getting some facts straight before you interrupt some good conversation with this shit.