Back in late 2000, a little more than 14 years ago, I started playing Diablo 2. I kept playing it on and off for awhile and bought Lord of Destruction the day it came out. I remember leveling my Amazon, getting rushed by friends through Hell Cows before Baal Runs were cool and finally making a Sorceress to specialize in my Magic Finding endeavors. Teleporting around with my trusty Wizardspike through Durance of Hate, just so I could routinely kite those sometimes apparent elites away and blow Mephisto up from that corner spot where he couldn't get me was actually something I looked forward to doing for hours on end after I got home from school. Call me what you will, but those experiences are what led to me trusting in Blizzard for the next 14 years to deliver the same "can't wait till I get some free time to do this" games.
After killing Mephisto, you always hold your breath as potential Windforces, Stormshields and Tal Rasha's come raining down from his beaten corpse. You finally review your spoils and sometimes you actually find something amazing and worth holding onto. You have multiple accounts filled with mules to horde your mountains of gear, hoping to one day trade them to another player, maybe a few things at a time in exchange for that one item you've so desperately needed and never had drop.
In Diablo 3, the Auction House was an attempt to encourage this same spirit but on a more automated and convenient platform. Gone were the days of trolling for games labeled "Tals for Trade Here" and "Need Trangs." Now, you could simply scroll through filters and find that perfect item. Like many things, it was too good to be true. People, by nature, used the Auction House as a way to instantly gear up their characters, with some even spending real-life currency to get there. There was a way, to literally bypass arguably the best part of the game's predecessor by spending a couple of dollars.
Late last year, Blizzard realized how detrimental the Auction House was to the game and thankfully removed it. In the hopes of rekindling that Diablo 2 spirit that once was, they also made Trading almost impossible. I will be one of the first to admit that I understand why the soulbind function is there. It strips the game of farmers trying to make a profit by selling items to players. I don't know about you, but while I was completely aware I could buy 100 SoJ's for $20.00 on some website was possible, it wasn't something I really cared about. Instead, in an attempt to curb third-parties from using Diablo 3 as a business platform, Blizzard has effectively dissolved an enormous aspect of the Diablo multiplayer franchise, which is a cost I personally deem too great.
I think maybe there is another option.
Why not use a currency in-game, such as Blood Shards or even Forgotten Souls to be used via the Enchantress to "un-bind" items? Limit exploitation by putting a price on it, a price ANYBODY would have to pay for with a currency that is untradeable and earned through honest playtime while at least breathing life into the possibility that players that find that special something, something they could use to help themselves get that item they just, for the life of them can't find on their own, have the ability to exchange it to someone who does have what they are looking for.
I understand that people will ask me, "What about people then selling un-bound items online?" To that I respond; Is the presence of gear attainable by alternate means outweigh your freedom to engage in an aspect of gameplay that promotes social interaction and provides people with an avenue of achieving gear and simply enjoying a video game without having to grind Rifts for weeks, on a SPECIFIC character just to have a CHANCE that that special something will drop?
It's just my opinion, and I truly love the Diablo franchise. I'm very interested in hearing feedback and maybe one day we can actually use the Community Feature for something other than Rifts and Bounties..
As much as that sounds nice, people will then just have Account A bot up shards, Account B bot up items, and use the shards to unlock the item. If you provide ANY method of anonymous exchange, it can be botted.
I can see trading being expanded upon a bit, but overall it must have forced limits on it. I would say the time limit could be somewhat expanded upon, and possibly a hard limit on how often a item can be traded (once, maybe twice).
The simple reality is that if you want something objective in nature (I want item X, or stats Y, or set bonus Z), a computer will always beat a human at meeting that objective, be in games, engineering, science.
If you install Diablo 2, make a public game for ...whatever.....
Watch as between 2-7 bots will enter your game, spam an advertisement and then leave.
As Taisto said above, there are SOOOOO many negative issues spawned from trading. a healthier, more robust and dynamic loot table is all this game needs.
If they did do away with BoA, let's say this Tuesday, the Chinese economy would likely go up by 7%
Back in late 2000, a little more than 14 years ago, I started playing Diablo 2. I kept playing it on and off for awhile and bought Lord of Destruction the day it came out. I remember leveling my Amazon, getting rushed by friends through Hell Cows before Baal Runs were cool and finally making a Sorceress to specialize in my Magic Finding endeavors. Teleporting around with my trusty Wizardspike through Durance of Hate, just so I could routinely kite those sometimes apparent elites away and blow Mephisto up from that corner spot where he couldn't get me was actually something I looked forward to doing for hours on end after I got home from school. Call me what you will, but those experiences are what led to me trusting in Blizzard for the next 14 years to deliver the same "can't wait till I get some free time to do this" games.
After killing Mephisto, you always hold your breath as potential Windforces, Stormshields and Tal Rasha's come raining down from his beaten corpse. You finally review your spoils and sometimes you actually find something amazing and worth holding onto. You have multiple accounts filled with mules to horde your mountains of gear, hoping to one day trade them to another player, maybe a few things at a time in exchange for that one item you've so desperately needed and never had drop.
In Diablo 3, the Auction House was an attempt to encourage this same spirit but on a more automated and convenient platform. Gone were the days of trolling for games labeled "Tals for Trade Here" and "Need Trangs." Now, you could simply scroll through filters and find that perfect item. Like many things, it was too good to be true. People, by nature, used the Auction House as a way to instantly gear up their characters, with some even spending real-life currency to get there. There was a way, to literally bypass arguably the best part of the game's predecessor by spending a couple of dollars.
Late last year, Blizzard realized how detrimental the Auction House was to the game and thankfully removed it. In the hopes of rekindling that Diablo 2 spirit that once was, they also made Trading almost impossible. I will be one of the first to admit that I understand why the soulbind function is there. It strips the game of farmers trying to make a profit by selling items to players. I don't know about you, but while I was completely aware I could buy 100 SoJ's for $20.00 on some website was possible, it wasn't something I really cared about. Instead, in an attempt to curb third-parties from using Diablo 3 as a business platform, Blizzard has effectively dissolved an enormous aspect of the Diablo multiplayer franchise, which is a cost I personally deem too great.
I think maybe there is another option.
Why not use a currency in-game, such as Blood Shards or even Forgotten Souls to be used via the Enchantress to "un-bind" items? Limit exploitation by putting a price on it, a price ANYBODY would have to pay for with a currency that is untradeable and earned through honest playtime while at least breathing life into the possibility that players that find that special something, something they could use to help themselves get that item they just, for the life of them can't find on their own, have the ability to exchange it to someone who does have what they are looking for.
I understand that people will ask me, "What about people then selling un-bound items online?" To that I respond; Is the presence of gear attainable by alternate means outweigh your freedom to engage in an aspect of gameplay that promotes social interaction and provides people with an avenue of achieving gear and simply enjoying a video game without having to grind Rifts for weeks, on a SPECIFIC character just to have a CHANCE that that special something will drop?
It's just my opinion, and I truly love the Diablo franchise. I'm very interested in hearing feedback and maybe one day we can actually use the Community Feature for something other than Rifts and Bounties..
I want this to be an honest exchange between you and I. No need to get nasty, I just want to aim a thought at you and see if you concur.
I have maintained for some time now that the people whom are most frustrated by BoA and the vacuum left behind due to severe trade restrictions are typically the same people that botted, hacked and duped Diablo 2. People that are pissed that their bag of pot will no longer be paid for by selling virtual swords.
I've said this for some time now, those most upset by this are the same crowd that sliced D2's integrity to ribbons.
I noticed your sig, Hexy.
Are you, in fact, one of these hacker/botter types that is just simply upset because your illicit trade has been shut down? Or do you truly give a fuck-shit about the game itself, whether or not it's fun and has staying power, from a purely gameplay aspect?
Either way, don't you see that the bigger thrill (for the player) would be getting a great drop, as opposed to landing a trade?
Quoting the title: The Spirit of Diablo is Trading!
No, it's NOT ! The heart of diablo is ,and always was, PLAYING the game, killing monsteras, developing your toon...
BTW: @admins: Why doesn't the quoting work correctly in this new forum version???.
It kept supressing an edited quote during several edit tries.
The quote box parsing on this website is beyond deplorable. The load times for these ridiculous animated banners are another issue. But I feel ya. So god damn frustrating to make a post here sometimes. It blows my mind that people put so much money and time into developing forum software, and then they provide this tiny little box to type your post into and you cannot even quote a post line for line without completely destroying your post and having to start over.
As I type this, most of my screen is taken up by something other than the actual field in which I'm trying to type on. 3/4ths of my screen is something other than what I'm actually working on, this post.
Back in late 2000, a little more than 14 years ago, I started playing Diablo 2. I kept playing it on and off for awhile and bought Lord of Destruction the day it came out. I remember leveling my Amazon, getting rushed by friends through Hell Cows before Baal Runs were cool and finally making a Sorceress to specialize in my Magic Finding endeavors. Teleporting around with my trusty Wizardspike through Durance of Hate, just so I could routinely kite those sometimes apparent elites away and blow Mephisto up from that corner spot where he couldn't get me was actually something I looked forward to doing for hours on end after I got home from school. Call me what you will, but those experiences are what led to me trusting in Blizzard for the next 14 years to deliver the same "can't wait till I get some free time to do this" games.
After killing Mephisto, you always hold your breath as potential Windforces, Stormshields and Tal Rasha's come raining down from his beaten corpse. You finally review your spoils and sometimes you actually find something amazing and worth holding onto. You have multiple accounts filled with mules to horde your mountains of gear, hoping to one day trade them to another player, maybe a few things at a time in exchange for that one item you've so desperately needed and never had drop.
In Diablo 3, the Auction House was an attempt to encourage this same spirit but on a more automated and convenient platform. Gone were the days of trolling for games labeled "Tals for Trade Here" and "Need Trangs." Now, you could simply scroll through filters and find that perfect item. Like many things, it was too good to be true. People, by nature, used the Auction House as a way to instantly gear up their characters, with some even spending real-life currency to get there. There was a way, to literally bypass arguably the best part of the game's predecessor by spending a couple of dollars.
Late last year, Blizzard realized how detrimental the Auction House was to the game and thankfully removed it. In the hopes of rekindling that Diablo 2 spirit that once was, they also made Trading almost impossible. I will be one of the first to admit that I understand why the soulbind function is there. It strips the game of farmers trying to make a profit by selling items to players. I don't know about you, but while I was completely aware I could buy 100 SoJ's for $20.00 on some website was possible, it wasn't something I really cared about. Instead, in an attempt to curb third-parties from using Diablo 3 as a business platform, Blizzard has effectively dissolved an enormous aspect of the Diablo multiplayer franchise, which is a cost I personally deem too great.
I think maybe there is another option.
Why not use a currency in-game, such as Blood Shards or even Forgotten Souls to be used via the Enchantress to "un-bind" items? Limit exploitation by putting a price on it, a price ANYBODY would have to pay for with a currency that is untradeable and earned through honest playtime while at least breathing life into the possibility that players that find that special something, something they could use to help themselves get that item they just, for the life of them can't find on their own, have the ability to exchange it to someone who does have what they are looking for.
I understand that people will ask me, "What about people then selling un-bound items online?" To that I respond; Is the presence of gear attainable by alternate means outweigh your freedom to engage in an aspect of gameplay that promotes social interaction and provides people with an avenue of achieving gear and simply enjoying a video game without having to grind Rifts for weeks, on a SPECIFIC character just to have a CHANCE that that special something will drop?
It's just my opinion, and I truly love the Diablo franchise. I'm very interested in hearing feedback and maybe one day we can actually use the Community Feature for something other than Rifts and Bounties..
I want this to be an honest exchange between you and I. No need to get nasty, I just want to aim a thought at you and see if you concur.
I have maintained for some time now that the people whom are most frustrated by BoA and the vacuum left behind due to severe trade restrictions are typically the same people that botted, hacked and duped Diablo 2. People that are pissed that their bag of pot will no longer be paid for by selling virtual swords.
I've said this for some time now, those most upset by this are the same crowd that sliced D2's integrity to ribbons.
I noticed your sig, Hexy.
Are you, in fact, one of these hacker/botter types that is just simply upset because your illicit trade has been shut down? Or do you truly give a fuck-shit about the game itself, whether or not it's fun and has staying power, from a purely gameplay aspect?
Either way, don't you see that the bigger thrill (for the player) would be getting a great drop, as opposed to landing a trade?
I use the signature because I was a member of their forums for a time a long, long time ago as there was a plethora of information for builds, gear and the such, much like Diablofans is now. I was always too scared to use bots, as I thought they would come with viruses and malware that would mess up the computer I used to play Diablo on. I was in High School with no money to replace a PC, so it was never worth it to me. I'm not saying I would've or wouldn't of tried those methods had I felt more comfortable or computer savvy in fixing the problems that I thought came with using said methods, but I'm just being honest.
I care about the game and love the Diablo franchise. Diablo 1 was the first PC game I ever played actually. I just feel that the soulbound system is a little too strict and that there are ways to allow for some level of trading, which was always so integral to the overall experience for me. Not to denounce other players' views, but I don't believe anyone can say Trading wasn't important to the game. I'll continue to play regardless, I just see the lack of Trading as something that could be developed in some form and can really attribute to the long term success of the game and to help maintain the longevity of player activity.
I think there could be a great median that would allow another outlet for gear acquisition without opening the flood gates to bots and farmers.
Quoting the title: The Spirit of Diablo is Trading!
No, it's NOT ! The heart of diablo is ,and always was, PLAYING the game, killing monsteras, developing your toon...
BTW: @admins: Why doesn't the quoting work correctly in this new forum version???.
It kept supressing an edited quote during several edit tries.
I believe that's kind of the "point" of the game. I was making an effort to remind people of the nostalgic experience of trading items to get something you just could never find on your own. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and many people play for a variety of reasons. Whatever floats your boat!
I think there could be a great median that would allow another outlet for gear acquisition without opening the flood gates to bots and farmers.
I would like to see this as well. The issue is, of course, how quickly exploits evolve, and I believe blizzard wracked their brains to conceive such an avenue, to no avail.
They saw trading as having an on/off switch, no middle ground. They choose to turn it off.
I feel the real solution lies some where in a dynamic and impressive crafting system (current crafting system is very linear and boring). Some way of providing players a way to aim at specific legendaries without necessarily handing the item over to players for X amount of gold/gems etc.
Vendor trading. i.e. bring the vendor "this" and "that" and he'll let you pick from "this" and "that". (i.e. Trade an Inna's chest for an IK chest etc)
Has any one tried something like this before? Has this been attempted in other games? It's a bit of an out-of-the-box idea, I understand. But could there be a way to have trades with NPC's instead of players?
I think there could be a great median that would allow another outlet for gear acquisition without opening the flood gates to bots and farmers.
I would like to see this as well. The issue is, of course, how quickly exploits evolve, and I believe blizzard wracked their brains to conceive such an avenue, to no avail.
They saw trading as having an on/off switch, no middle ground. They choose to turn it off.
I feel the real solution lies some where in a dynamic and impressive crafting system (current crafting system is very linear and boring). Some way of providing players a way to aim at specific legendaries without necessarily handing the item over to players for X amount of gold/gems etc. Vendor trading. i.e. bring the vendor "this" and "that" and he'll let you pick from "this" and "that". (i.e. Trade an Inna's chest for an IK chest etc) Has any one tried something like this before? Has this been attempted in other games? It's a bit of an out-of-the-box idea, I understand. But could there be a way to have trades with NPC's instead of players?
Awesome!
While I suppose it wouldn't fulfill the social interaction part of things, maybe it is the only way to give players another avenue while restricting illegal activities. I just think it's terrible when I find a two-hander on my Wizard, that would be awesome for my Barbarian but it has Intelligence. Now I'm forced to re-enchant the Intel off the weapon, but have no other options to improve the pieces other stats. I lose the enchanting benefit simply by giving it to an alt.
The only solution I can think of would be to make the core stats (Intelligence, Strength, Dexterity) switch depending on which character you were playing, allowing you to enchant the other stuff.
I think there's a safe medium between strict trading restrictions and open free-for-all-trading. I don't often get to play the same times as from of my friends and every once in a while, I get a drop that would be a decent upgrade for them. Just last night, my brother wanted to get some gold for me, but to his dismay...not allowed. I wouldn't say the restrictions are frustrating for me...but they're definitely inconvenient at times. Having said that though...I love how the gold spammers are down. I rarely see them in trade or general chat anymore. Every once in a while, I'll see solicitations for "Safe" leveling....but even that's far and in between. So where's the medium between iron-clad shacklesrestrictionsand spammer's paradise? Why not implement a Friends-only Trade system? Friends that have been on our list for more than say...2 or 3 weeks...have trading priviledges opened up? This can system can prevent trade for spammers trying to make a quick buck while still allowing trade between friends. Sure, the spammers can still try to have us added to their list...but at least in this way, there's a long enough lag time for Blizzard to identify and lock-out the spammer's account before any trading can occur...it'd still be pointless for the gold/item spammer to even try. I don't think a D2-like trading system would ever come to D3...nor do I think it should. I don't want to go back to the day when I log onto my D3 account and find over 50 friend requests from gold spammers. A friend-only delayed trading system is probably the best way to allow trading but still dissuade spammers.
hope someday they remove the bind to account .. or change it to bind on equip / bind on trade .. or at least let us trade plans and some other items ..
To further expand on the delayed-listingidea...perhaps another way to implement a safe trading environment is to allow trading guilds. Be able to join a guild and those who have been in the guild for X amount will be automatically allowed trading privileges. Guilds will be maintained and monitored like clans...reputable trading guilds will be highly sought after for membership while shady ones will be avoided by most and possibly even shut down altogether. I would imagine that anyone that wants to be a part of a trading guild will want to make sure the guild they are joining has a robust and equitable commerce before investing X amount of time to join.Issue is that this won't dissuade spammers from blasting chat with "JOIN OUR TRADING GUILD - Dress4Less - Join now!" Or...it may even promote botting and farming specific Trade Guilds. Okay...you know what...maybe not such a good idea.
I do like the idea of the core stat changing according to which character we're playing. At very least, they could make it less costly to change the core stats while still allowing us to change another affix on the gear.
TBH I think the 'spirit of diablo' is adventuring to find epic loot, not shopping for it.
...and that is a fair statement.
You said the keyword ..... "adventure(ing)"
Role Playing. You're in a land of adventurers, you're not the only nephelam in Sanctuary.
Of course one would expect to encounter other adventurers in their travels. Adventurers whom aren't chaotic or hostile toward you, rather, you fight a like cause. These adventurers may also be willing to barter with you. Having this aspect missing pisses a lot of people off, people that would never bot or participate in 3rd party trades.
So we have a void here.
I love the grind, and I'm the last motherfucker you'll hear bitching about not finding enough set pieces only 2 weeks in. However, I admit that if I look down the road 16 months and vision myself STILL with only 3 of the four Inna's set pieces I desire greatly. ..... what recourse do I have? I would admittedly be quite frustrated.
2 big issues I'm seeing posted all over Bnet.
1) There's absolutely no way to focus farming on certain specific items (most items actually). Players could conceivably play 6 hours a day for 2 years and never find several specific items they desire.
2) Too many useless legendaries. (rings rings amulet ring amulet amulet ring ring)
Let's address this. Above I mentioned an idea I've been batting around for a few months. The idea of acquiring legendary items from NPC's, specific ones.
Step 1; Remove Forgotten Souls from salvaging Legendaries.
Step 2; Insert a new mat for destroying these epic legendary items that have "existed" in Sanctuary for ages. (Disclaimer; I'm going to use terms and figures purely for example).
Step 3; New Material. Legendary Essence.
Step 4; New crafting option via the Blacky.
Step 5; Create classifications for all lvl 70 Legendary items. Embrace the fact that many Legendaries (torment only or not) just simply aren't as good/desirable as others may be. Example; Nagel Ring; Classification 1 (min) ~ Thunderfury; Classification 5 (max)
The Blacksmith offers a selection of all Legendary items in-game by base item type i.e. Chest/Pants/Ring * Legendary/Set
You click Set/Chest. You have your pick of all Set Chest armors in-game, ranked in cost by Legendary Classification (1-5....5 being the most expensive)
For a class 1 set, 50 LE's (legendary essences). For a class 5 set, 200 LE's
After the "trade" with the Blacksmith, the item appears in your bag in UN'id format. The item will now roll randomly the same as it would if it dropped, keeping the "chance" aspect of Diablo intact.
I feel that this approach (or something similar) is the only way to sate the loot ravenous appetites of Diablo 3's players. People want to use certain builds, builds that aren't viable/possible without 1 or more specific items. People don't want to hear that Legendary PING, nor see that beautiful orange beam reaching through the heavens only to deal with the fact that this "legendary" item is simply a Forgotten Soul material.
If we salvage a Leg, let us use that to work toward a leg of our choice.
Thread = I don't like boa but I'm not going to just say it. I don't like it either, but I'm no trader type as well. I hope the ps4 version removes it or at least someone make it possible via an item editor software because it's stuffing the game up.
Role Playing. You're in a land of adventurers, you're not the only nephelam in Sanctuary.
Of course one would expect to encounter other adventurers in their travels. Adventurers whom aren't chaotic or hostile toward you, rather, you fight a like cause. These adventurers may also be willing to barter with you. Having this aspect missing pisses a lot of people off, people that would never bot or participate in 3rd party trades.
So we have a void here.
I love the grind, and I'm the last motherfucker you'll hear bitching about not finding enough set pieces only 2 weeks in. However, I admit that if I look down the road 16 months and vision myself STILL with only 3 of the four Inna's set pieces I desire greatly. ..... what recourse do I have? I would admittedly be quite frustrated.
So gracefully said.
And, frankly, I love how you give an RP argument for trading as I think that's highly-relevant. While we'll have the same people chime in that "killing monsters should be the best way to get loot" and therefore conclude that "any other way to get loot should be completely removed from the game" I would like to think that intelligent people can see beyond the "EVERYONE MUST PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS ME AT ALL TIMES" discussions that have previously dominated the topic.
Frankly, the idea that traders "gear up faster" is the worst argument against trading ever. As it stands I can name at least a dozen people on this forum who, by virtue of "good RNG," have geared up significantly faster than I have. By the "traders gear up faster" line of thinking, those people should not be allowed to gear up faster than me because it will ruin the game. I'll look at Jaetch on the armory, my ePeen will shrivel out of envy, and I'll be left with no choice but to end my life.
I wish that people could be reasonable on this topic, but much like the AH, it's far too polarizing.
Do I believe that trading is the "spirit of Diablo"??? Absolutely not.
Do I believe that ARPGs traditionally have trading and that there needs to be more highbrow discussion on the subject than "we can't balance it any other way guys you have to believe us it's impossible!"??? Absolutely.
EDIT
Forgot to say that, as predictable, the "EVERYONE MUST PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME WAY I DO" crowd is out in full force with their typical "anyone who wants to trade is a botter" propaganda. It's like clockwork. McCarthyism at its finest.
After killing Mephisto, you always hold your breath as potential Windforces, Stormshields and Tal Rasha's come raining down from his beaten corpse. You finally review your spoils and sometimes you actually find something amazing and worth holding onto. You have multiple accounts filled with mules to horde your mountains of gear, hoping to one day trade them to another player, maybe a few things at a time in exchange for that one item you've so desperately needed and never had drop.
In Diablo 3, the Auction House was an attempt to encourage this same spirit but on a more automated and convenient platform. Gone were the days of trolling for games labeled "Tals for Trade Here" and "Need Trangs." Now, you could simply scroll through filters and find that perfect item. Like many things, it was too good to be true. People, by nature, used the Auction House as a way to instantly gear up their characters, with some even spending real-life currency to get there. There was a way, to literally bypass arguably the best part of the game's predecessor by spending a couple of dollars.
Late last year, Blizzard realized how detrimental the Auction House was to the game and thankfully removed it. In the hopes of rekindling that Diablo 2 spirit that once was, they also made Trading almost impossible. I will be one of the first to admit that I understand why the soulbind function is there. It strips the game of farmers trying to make a profit by selling items to players. I don't know about you, but while I was completely aware I could buy 100 SoJ's for $20.00 on some website was possible, it wasn't something I really cared about. Instead, in an attempt to curb third-parties from using Diablo 3 as a business platform, Blizzard has effectively dissolved an enormous aspect of the Diablo multiplayer franchise, which is a cost I personally deem too great.
I think maybe there is another option.
Why not use a currency in-game, such as Blood Shards or even Forgotten Souls to be used via the Enchantress to "un-bind" items? Limit exploitation by putting a price on it, a price ANYBODY would have to pay for with a currency that is untradeable and earned through honest playtime while at least breathing life into the possibility that players that find that special something, something they could use to help themselves get that item they just, for the life of them can't find on their own, have the ability to exchange it to someone who does have what they are looking for.
I understand that people will ask me, "What about people then selling un-bound items online?" To that I respond; Is the presence of gear attainable by alternate means outweigh your freedom to engage in an aspect of gameplay that promotes social interaction and provides people with an avenue of achieving gear and simply enjoying a video game without having to grind Rifts for weeks, on a SPECIFIC character just to have a CHANCE that that special something will drop?
It's just my opinion, and I truly love the Diablo franchise. I'm very interested in hearing feedback and maybe one day we can actually use the Community Feature for something other than Rifts and Bounties..
I can see trading being expanded upon a bit, but overall it must have forced limits on it. I would say the time limit could be somewhat expanded upon, and possibly a hard limit on how often a item can be traded (once, maybe twice).
The simple reality is that if you want something objective in nature (I want item X, or stats Y, or set bonus Z), a computer will always beat a human at meeting that objective, be in games, engineering, science.
Watch as between 2-7 bots will enter your game, spam an advertisement and then leave.
As Taisto said above, there are SOOOOO many negative issues spawned from trading. a healthier, more robust and dynamic loot table is all this game needs.
If they did do away with BoA, let's say this Tuesday, the Chinese economy would likely go up by 7%
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I have maintained for some time now that the people whom are most frustrated by BoA and the vacuum left behind due to severe trade restrictions are typically the same people that botted, hacked and duped Diablo 2. People that are pissed that their bag of pot will no longer be paid for by selling virtual swords.
I've said this for some time now, those most upset by this are the same crowd that sliced D2's integrity to ribbons.
I noticed your sig, Hexy.
Are you, in fact, one of these hacker/botter types that is just simply upset because your illicit trade has been shut down? Or do you truly give a fuck-shit about the game itself, whether or not it's fun and has staying power, from a purely gameplay aspect?
Either way, don't you see that the bigger thrill (for the player) would be getting a great drop, as opposed to landing a trade?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Quoting the title: The Spirit of Diablo is Trading!
No, it's NOT ! The heart of diablo is ,and always was, PLAYING the game, killing monsteras, developing your toon...
BTW: @admins: Why doesn't the quoting work correctly in this new forum version???.
It kept supressing an edited quote during several edit tries.
As I type this, most of my screen is taken up by something other than the actual field in which I'm trying to type on. 3/4ths of my screen is something other than what I'm actually working on, this post.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I care about the game and love the Diablo franchise. Diablo 1 was the first PC game I ever played actually. I just feel that the soulbound system is a little too strict and that there are ways to allow for some level of trading, which was always so integral to the overall experience for me. Not to denounce other players' views, but I don't believe anyone can say Trading wasn't important to the game. I'll continue to play regardless, I just see the lack of Trading as something that could be developed in some form and can really attribute to the long term success of the game and to help maintain the longevity of player activity.
I think there could be a great median that would allow another outlet for gear acquisition without opening the flood gates to bots and farmers.
They saw trading as having an on/off switch, no middle ground. They choose to turn it off.
I feel the real solution lies some where in a dynamic and impressive crafting system (current crafting system is very linear and boring). Some way of providing players a way to aim at specific legendaries without necessarily handing the item over to players for X amount of gold/gems etc.
Vendor trading. i.e. bring the vendor "this" and "that" and he'll let you pick from "this" and "that". (i.e. Trade an Inna's chest for an IK chest etc)
Has any one tried something like this before? Has this been attempted in other games? It's a bit of an out-of-the-box idea, I understand. But could there be a way to have trades with NPC's instead of players?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
While I suppose it wouldn't fulfill the social interaction part of things, maybe it is the only way to give players another avenue while restricting illegal activities. I just think it's terrible when I find a two-hander on my Wizard, that would be awesome for my Barbarian but it has Intelligence. Now I'm forced to re-enchant the Intel off the weapon, but have no other options to improve the pieces other stats. I lose the enchanting benefit simply by giving it to an alt.
The only solution I can think of would be to make the core stats (Intelligence, Strength, Dexterity) switch depending on which character you were playing, allowing you to enchant the other stuff.
You said the keyword ..... "adventure(ing)"
Role Playing. You're in a land of adventurers, you're not the only nephelam in Sanctuary.
Of course one would expect to encounter other adventurers in their travels. Adventurers whom aren't chaotic or hostile toward you, rather, you fight a like cause. These adventurers may also be willing to barter with you. Having this aspect missing pisses a lot of people off, people that would never bot or participate in 3rd party trades.
So we have a void here.
I love the grind, and I'm the last motherfucker you'll hear bitching about not finding enough set pieces only 2 weeks in. However, I admit that if I look down the road 16 months and vision myself STILL with only 3 of the four Inna's set pieces I desire greatly. ..... what recourse do I have? I would admittedly be quite frustrated.
2 big issues I'm seeing posted all over Bnet.
1) There's absolutely no way to focus farming on certain specific items (most items actually). Players could conceivably play 6 hours a day for 2 years and never find several specific items they desire.
2) Too many useless legendaries. (rings rings amulet ring amulet amulet ring ring)
Let's address this. Above I mentioned an idea I've been batting around for a few months. The idea of acquiring legendary items from NPC's, specific ones.
Step 1; Remove Forgotten Souls from salvaging Legendaries.
Step 2; Insert a new mat for destroying these epic legendary items that have "existed" in Sanctuary for ages. (Disclaimer; I'm going to use terms and figures purely for example).
Step 3; New Material. Legendary Essence.
Step 4; New crafting option via the Blacky.
Step 5; Create classifications for all lvl 70 Legendary items. Embrace the fact that many Legendaries (torment only or not) just simply aren't as good/desirable as others may be. Example; Nagel Ring; Classification 1 (min) ~ Thunderfury; Classification 5 (max)
The Blacksmith offers a selection of all Legendary items in-game by base item type i.e. Chest/Pants/Ring * Legendary/Set
You click Set/Chest. You have your pick of all Set Chest armors in-game, ranked in cost by Legendary Classification (1-5....5 being the most expensive)
For a class 1 set, 50 LE's (legendary essences). For a class 5 set, 200 LE's
After the "trade" with the Blacksmith, the item appears in your bag in UN'id format. The item will now roll randomly the same as it would if it dropped, keeping the "chance" aspect of Diablo intact.
I feel that this approach (or something similar) is the only way to sate the loot ravenous appetites of Diablo 3's players. People want to use certain builds, builds that aren't viable/possible without 1 or more specific items. People don't want to hear that Legendary PING, nor see that beautiful orange beam reaching through the heavens only to deal with the fact that this "legendary" item is simply a Forgotten Soul material.
If we salvage a Leg, let us use that to work toward a leg of our choice.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
And, frankly, I love how you give an RP argument for trading as I think that's highly-relevant. While we'll have the same people chime in that "killing monsters should be the best way to get loot" and therefore conclude that "any other way to get loot should be completely removed from the game" I would like to think that intelligent people can see beyond the "EVERYONE MUST PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS ME AT ALL TIMES" discussions that have previously dominated the topic.
Frankly, the idea that traders "gear up faster" is the worst argument against trading ever. As it stands I can name at least a dozen people on this forum who, by virtue of "good RNG," have geared up significantly faster than I have. By the "traders gear up faster" line of thinking, those people should not be allowed to gear up faster than me because it will ruin the game. I'll look at Jaetch on the armory, my ePeen will shrivel out of envy, and I'll be left with no choice but to end my life.
I wish that people could be reasonable on this topic, but much like the AH, it's far too polarizing.
Do I believe that trading is the "spirit of Diablo"??? Absolutely not.
Do I believe that ARPGs traditionally have trading and that there needs to be more highbrow discussion on the subject than "we can't balance it any other way guys you have to believe us it's impossible!"??? Absolutely.
EDIT
Forgot to say that, as predictable, the "EVERYONE MUST PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME WAY I DO" crowd is out in full force with their typical "anyone who wants to trade is a botter" propaganda. It's like clockwork. McCarthyism at its finest.