By now it is more or less accepted by Blizzard fans that Diablo III is seriously lacking in many areas. The two greatest complaints are the item hunt and the skills/leveling system. If these two are fixed, the game would be on solid ground for further improvement and expansion. The items are being fixed in the next patch that will introduce better legenderies, and hopefully increase the drop rate of good items enough to make the auction houses optional, not mandatory like now.
But the other great problem is yet to be addressed. The skill/leveling system is extremely simplified, generic, and eliminates character uniqueness and player choice.
I want to make a pet based demon hunter with no attacks but a wide range of curses at my disposal to aid my army of minions.
I want to create a ranged monk that uses traps and turrets.
I want a melee wizard that "casts" melee attacks using her health instead of her mana.
I want a barbarian battle mage that shoots fireballs and meteors at range before closing in for melee.
I want a witch doctor healer that mostly provides healing, buffs, and auras for coop party members.
The words "you cannot do that" should simply not be part of a game designer’s vocabulary. Their job is not to make up some fun skills for me to play with, it is to create a skill system where I can play anyway I want, including some really creative builds that neither they nor I are yet aware of. I want both a unique character that is different from my other characters of same class, and the ability to discover a completely new build no person on earth is using.
The Path of Exile skill tree should be nailed to the wall of every Blizzard designer’s office, to show them the kind of thing we are looking for. By no means is it perfect, a mega company like Blizzard can create something even better allowing for exponentially greater customization without making it too complex. The limit on character customization should be my imagination, not the designers. I sincerely hope that the skills system is next in line for a total overhaul.
I think you're playing the wrong game if you are expecting any of this from D3.
Why? Path of Exile has this type of customization and it is basically a Diablo 2 clone made on a shoe string budget by a tiny indie studio. Blizzard spends more $ on Blizzcon each year than PoE designers earned in their lifetime. Why shouldn't I expect something great from a giant game company that spent tens of millions, hundreds of thousands of work hours, and almost a decade of time, to develop one game? After all these years I expect a game that has better customization than your average first person shooter.
Classes should be the springboards from which you build your character, not the limitations on what you can do. It should be easier to make witch doctor pet build, but a monk pet build should still be viable.
Why? Path of Exile has this type of customization and it is basically a Diablo 2 clone made on a shoe string budget by a tiny indie studio....
So what is stopping you from playing PoE and being happy enough about it?
Because PoE doesn't have the polish, good graphics/physics, and fast smooth combat of Diablo. I want both in one game. I do not see how a game can ever hope for longetivity with a skill system that stiffles player creativity and actively discourages players from ever rerolling a character. How would YOU change the skill system? Or do you think its just fine with only little balance changes neccesary?
I want to make a pet based demon hunter with no attacks but a wide range of curses at my disposal to aid my army of minions.
I want to create a ranged monk that uses traps and turrets.
I want a melee wizard that "casts" melee attacks using her health instead of her mana.
I want a barbarian battle mage that shoots fireballs and meteors at range before closing in for melee.
Why not roll a:
Witch Doctor, and call it your "demon hunter"
Demon Hunter, and call it "monk"
Barbarian, and call him "wizard"
Wizard, and call her a "barbarian".
The reasons you are able to identify these classes were because of the gimmicks and limitations they possess. Homogenization of classes are fine, but then you risk being boiled down to one "adventurer" class that can spec into anything. If you prefer that system then I suggest you find some other game since diablo series have stray off the path a while ago.
But seriously, if you want a melee class that casts melee attack and uses no mana, then why should it bother you that the class is called "barbarian" and not "wizard"?
How would YOU change the skill system? Or do you think its just fine with only little balance changes neccesary?
I think it's just fine with only little balance changes necessary.
Remember that they eventually added respec to D2. And for a reason. If you look at the way people actually used skills in that game, you'll see that D3's system makes absolute sense.
PoE's skill system seemed horrible for the 30 minutes I played it. The skills are boring as hell, and the fact that you only have to really use 1 or 2 of them is too reminiscent of the old D2 flawed combat system. I think we're fine with D3's much more dynamic combat.
Also, that can work for a game with absolutely no lore whatsoever like PoE, but for a Barbarian to cast a Meteor in D3? It just doesn't fit the class thematically, which is a big deal to me at least.
We already have the possibility of making a meele Demon Hunter or Wizard, and the ranged Barbarian is very powerful (and even has some variants on skill choices), there's no need to butcher the good old rpg fundamental staple that classes are.
I think much of your message is being lost in your examples. I admit that I think they were a bit too far fetched but I understand what you're trying to communicate, and I do agree.
I am extremely bored with Diablo III. I'm also a bit heartbroken that it turned out to be so aggressively mediocre. Long story short, I haven't played in over two months. Outside of the boring item affixes, atrocious drop rates, punishing difficulty of Act 2+ (it isn't fun being one-shot, I'm not in the mood of rehashing the "get more resistance noob" argument.), I end up feeling absolutely no connection to my character.
I don't feel like there are "builds" in this game. It all feels like I've been handed a small subset of abilities that are a touch above viable and been told "go". The skill system is extremely wonky (something that's even reflected in the skills UI, which is an atrocity unto itself), and I feel like I'm not actually putting anything together I can call my own.
I wanted primary stats mostly decoupled from gear. I wanted affixes to be interesting. I wanted skill trees revamped and improved. I wanted respecs to be costly but available. I wanted level 99. I wanted to feel like I actually had some semblance of control over my characater. I wanted to feel powerful going up against all monsters.
Instead my hero just felt like it was trapped inside an empty shell of a game that was finished in 2009, and revamped to for a double-digit IQ.
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It is easier to show the disorder that must accompany reform than the order that should follow it.
The skills system is EASILY one of my favorite aspects of D3, the old skill tree points system is flawed in many, MANY ways. (and this is coming from a D2 player who has played more D2 then 99% of anyone here)
Blizzard will NOT gut the game to retool this system, it WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Aargh, I wasnt even going to post, I thought i could just pop in, and see whats going on in the forum, but I cant hold my tongue.
First of all there is 100 times more uniqueness in characters than there ever was in D2, with what I call mandatory cookie cutout builds, meaning there was what, 3 viable builds per class in Diablo 2?
In Diablo 3 you can have ANY SKILL COMBINATION you want, there are no tree limitations, or mandatory skill synergies forcing you to pick certain skills.
The only thing that makes your character in Diablo 3 not feel unique is the fact that you can skill swap,
there doesnt need to be any major overhauling here, all there needs to be to ''fix this'' is in higher levels make it harder to swap in and out different skills, they tried this with the nephelem valor, but to really make people devout to investing thought into their character there needs to be a big gold cost to changing your skill build in higher levels, the point of skill swapping is so you can experiment, and see what you like, by the time you reach level 60 you should figure it out.
Wow, I did that without resorting to insults, I'm getting good
How come no one can see these simple truth's ?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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But the other great problem is yet to be addressed. The skill/leveling system is extremely simplified, generic, and eliminates character uniqueness and player choice.
I want to make a pet based demon hunter with no attacks but a wide range of curses at my disposal to aid my army of minions.
I want to create a ranged monk that uses traps and turrets.
I want a melee wizard that "casts" melee attacks using her health instead of her mana.
I want a barbarian battle mage that shoots fireballs and meteors at range before closing in for melee.
I want a witch doctor healer that mostly provides healing, buffs, and auras for coop party members.
The words "you cannot do that" should simply not be part of a game designer’s vocabulary. Their job is not to make up some fun skills for me to play with, it is to create a skill system where I can play anyway I want, including some really creative builds that neither they nor I are yet aware of. I want both a unique character that is different from my other characters of same class, and the ability to discover a completely new build no person on earth is using.
The Path of Exile skill tree should be nailed to the wall of every Blizzard designer’s office, to show them the kind of thing we are looking for. By no means is it perfect, a mega company like Blizzard can create something even better allowing for exponentially greater customization without making it too complex. The limit on character customization should be my imagination, not the designers. I sincerely hope that the skills system is next in line for a total overhaul.
Why? Path of Exile has this type of customization and it is basically a Diablo 2 clone made on a shoe string budget by a tiny indie studio. Blizzard spends more $ on Blizzcon each year than PoE designers earned in their lifetime. Why shouldn't I expect something great from a giant game company that spent tens of millions, hundreds of thousands of work hours, and almost a decade of time, to develop one game? After all these years I expect a game that has better customization than your average first person shooter.
Classes should be the springboards from which you build your character, not the limitations on what you can do. It should be easier to make witch doctor pet build, but a monk pet build should still be viable.
Because PoE doesn't have the polish, good graphics/physics, and fast smooth combat of Diablo. I want both in one game. I do not see how a game can ever hope for longetivity with a skill system that stiffles player creativity and actively discourages players from ever rerolling a character. How would YOU change the skill system? Or do you think its just fine with only little balance changes neccesary?
Why not roll a:
Witch Doctor, and call it your "demon hunter"
Demon Hunter, and call it "monk"
Barbarian, and call him "wizard"
Wizard, and call her a "barbarian".
The reasons you are able to identify these classes were because of the gimmicks and limitations they possess. Homogenization of classes are fine, but then you risk being boiled down to one "adventurer" class that can spec into anything. If you prefer that system then I suggest you find some other game since diablo series have stray off the path a while ago.
But seriously, if you want a melee class that casts melee attack and uses no mana, then why should it bother you that the class is called "barbarian" and not "wizard"?
Remember that they eventually added respec to D2. And for a reason. If you look at the way people actually used skills in that game, you'll see that D3's system makes absolute sense.
Also, that can work for a game with absolutely no lore whatsoever like PoE, but for a Barbarian to cast a Meteor in D3? It just doesn't fit the class thematically, which is a big deal to me at least.
We already have the possibility of making a meele Demon Hunter or Wizard, and the ranged Barbarian is very powerful (and even has some variants on skill choices), there's no need to butcher the good old rpg fundamental staple that classes are.
I am extremely bored with Diablo III. I'm also a bit heartbroken that it turned out to be so aggressively mediocre. Long story short, I haven't played in over two months. Outside of the boring item affixes, atrocious drop rates, punishing difficulty of Act 2+ (it isn't fun being one-shot, I'm not in the mood of rehashing the "get more resistance noob" argument.), I end up feeling absolutely no connection to my character.
I don't feel like there are "builds" in this game. It all feels like I've been handed a small subset of abilities that are a touch above viable and been told "go". The skill system is extremely wonky (something that's even reflected in the skills UI, which is an atrocity unto itself), and I feel like I'm not actually putting anything together I can call my own.
I wanted primary stats mostly decoupled from gear. I wanted affixes to be interesting. I wanted skill trees revamped and improved. I wanted respecs to be costly but available. I wanted level 99. I wanted to feel like I actually had some semblance of control over my characater. I wanted to feel powerful going up against all monsters.
Instead my hero just felt like it was trapped inside an empty shell of a game that was finished in 2009, and revamped to for a double-digit IQ.
Game doesn't suit you, quit.
Exactly /thread ffs
Blizzard will NOT gut the game to retool this system, it WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Deal with it and move on.
This should be sticky and entitled: READ BEFORE POSTING!
First of all there is 100 times more uniqueness in characters than there ever was in D2, with what I call mandatory cookie cutout builds, meaning there was what, 3 viable builds per class in Diablo 2?
In Diablo 3 you can have ANY SKILL COMBINATION you want, there are no tree limitations, or mandatory skill synergies forcing you to pick certain skills.
The only thing that makes your character in Diablo 3 not feel unique is the fact that you can skill swap,
there doesnt need to be any major overhauling here, all there needs to be to ''fix this'' is in higher levels make it harder to swap in and out different skills, they tried this with the nephelem valor, but to really make people devout to investing thought into their character there needs to be a big gold cost to changing your skill build in higher levels, the point of skill swapping is so you can experiment, and see what you like, by the time you reach level 60 you should figure it out.
Wow, I did that without resorting to insults, I'm getting good
How come no one can see these simple truth's ?