Anyone who's able to post on the official D3 forums, could you please ask for a blue post regarding how CC skills work when used in succession?
For instance: 4 wizards: 7.65 second cooldown on Frost Nova's 3 second freeze with the cooldown reduction mastery. 4 wizards can freeze something for 12 seconds just by timing all freezes in succession, but each can reuse the move well before they would ever need to again.
4 barbs doing ground slam for a 4 second stun, with a 12 second cooldown also means a mob could be perma stunned just with some teamwork.
This kind of thing obviously won't work, but without any information, blizz is just sort of setting us up to want to try some sort of cheesy CC lock strats, without telling us that it won't work or why.
Could someone please post in the official D3 forums and ask for some clues on the PvE croud control mechanics? Do higher difficulties take reduced CC by default? Or is there some sort of diminishing return that puts a complete end to chain Stunning/freezing. Does it affect fears or random chance stuns, too?
my guess is that inferno monters will have pretty high cc resistance an that the cc duration will be lower on them.
lets say up to 50% to resist an also having up to 50% shorter duration, a mix of both or one or the other.
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I prefer a more chaotic playstyle, just spam everything!
AMEN, the more canned meat the better. Broiled, fried, grilled, sauteed, basted, boiled, toasted, baked, fresh, fermented, with cheese product, without cheese product... I think I lost the drift.
But on a serious note, it's pretty certain that they will already get CC resistances or partial immunities. The SK for example will occasionally return immune on a barb's bash/stun. Will have to verify this, back in a jif.
back:
No, at least not the barbarian's bash/clobber, seems to proc at around 50 percent of the time or maybe a little less. What I had been seeing was the cold damage on one weapon occasionally returning an *immune* popup presumably from the damage's snare.
Will monsters have stun resistance of some kind? A party of 4 barbarians with Ground Stomp appears to be able to apply stuns infinitely by rotating the use of this skill within their party.
Yes this is a possibility, and CCing enemies is a great build focus for characters, but higher level enemies have higher CC resists so it’ll be difficult to replicate later on the in the game.
Anyone who's able to post on the official D3 forums, could you please ask for a blue post regarding how CC skills work when used in succession?
For instance: 4 wizards: 7.65 second cooldown on Frost Nova's 3 second freeze with the cooldown reduction mastery. 4 wizards can freeze something for 12 seconds just by timing all freezes in succession, but each can reuse the move well before they would ever need to again.
4 barbs doing ground slam for a 4 second stun, with a 12 second cooldown also means a mob could be perma stunned just with some teamwork.
This kind of thing obviously won't work, but without any information, blizz is just sort of setting us up to want to try some sort of cheesy CC lock strats, without telling us that it won't work or why.
Could someone please post in the official D3 forums and ask for some clues on the PvE croud control mechanics? Do higher difficulties take reduced CC by default? Or is there some sort of diminishing return that puts a complete end to chain Stunning/freezing. Does it affect fears or random chance stuns, too?
i lol'ed at croud control. moving on.
i would bet my left nut that they will go with what has worked for them in past, both in WoW and in diablo 2, which is DIMINISHING RETURNS. i.e first stun lasts 4 seconds, second might last 3, third might last 1.5 seconds, then 4th and any more stuns last 1 second, until a grace period of no stuns for like 5 seconds or something is given. if that makes sense. this system is in place in 99% of MMO's and games like this, i don't see why they wouldnt implement it here. in fact i'm pretty sure i have read that this will be how it works, in a blue post some time back, but i don't care to find it.
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I'm with Illich they will just put CC on diminshing returns especially on the higher difficulties, there is no way they will let you control stuff until it dies in inferno.
Will monsters have stun resistance of some kind? A party of 4 barbarians with Ground Stomp appears to be able to apply stuns infinitely by rotating the use of this skill within their party.
Yes this is a possibility, and CCing enemies is a great build focus for characters, but higher level enemies have higher CC resists so it’ll be difficult to replicate later on the in the game.
I was going to paraphrase this. Thanks for providing the actual quote.
I can see a group of barbs trying to pull the stunlock gig on Inferno SK... and him laughing at them while summoning even more skeletons while the word "Immune" constantly appears above his head.
Also, some enemies' AI seem to tell them to purposefuly "scatter" or run a bit, then return to attack.
I've noticed this in some Skeleton Archers (with knockback), when I went for one of them, the other 3 moved away from me. Also, Scavengers do this a lot.
This in itself might make perma-stunning groups that much harder.
Also, some enemies' AI seem to tell them to purposefuly "scatter" or run a bit, then return to attack.
I've noticed this in some Skeleton Archers (with knockback), when I went for one of them, the other 3 moved away from me. Also, Scavengers do this a lot.
This in itself might make perma-stunning groups that much harder.
nice little observation, thanks
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Remember in.. forget where, pretty sure it was Jay Wilson, but I recall him saying something along the lines that Inferno's mobs will be more aggressive. I suspect this mean's more than just being quick to aggro but, on the more basic level, quicker to respond to characters. Maybe even response out of LoS... scary thought..
Anyone who's able to post on the official D3 forums, could you please ask for a blue post regarding how CC skills work when used in succession?
For instance: 4 wizards: 7.65 second cooldown on Frost Nova's 3 second freeze with the cooldown reduction mastery. 4 wizards can freeze something for 12 seconds just by timing all freezes in succession, but each can reuse the move well before they would ever need to again.
4 barbs doing ground slam for a 4 second stun, with a 12 second cooldown also means a mob could be perma stunned just with some teamwork.
This kind of thing obviously won't work, but without any information, blizz is just sort of setting us up to want to try some sort of cheesy CC lock strats, without telling us that it won't work or why.
Could someone please post in the official D3 forums and ask for some clues on the PvE croud control mechanics? Do higher difficulties take reduced CC by default? Or is there some sort of diminishing return that puts a complete end to chain Stunning/freezing. Does it affect fears or random chance stuns, too?
i lol'ed at croud control. moving on.
i would bet my left nut that they will go with what has worked for them in past, both in WoW and in diablo 2, which is DIMINISHING RETURNS. i.e first stun lasts 4 seconds, second might last 3, third might last 1.5 seconds, then 4th and any more stuns last 1 second, until a grace period of no stuns for like 5 seconds or something is given. if that makes sense. this system is in place in 99% of MMO's and games like this, i don't see why they wouldnt implement it here. in fact i'm pretty sure i have read that this will be how it works, in a blue post some time back, but i don't care to find it.
They have already stated that they are not using diminishing returns.
On the note of balancing PvE and PvP separately you guys talked about a little bit, it's something we want to largely avoid. I'm actually sort of confused where that info came from (I know you guys didn't just make it up I've seen it elsewhere). Somehow I feel like it's my fault, but maybe it was talked about at BlizzCon. We do have the ability to keep separate functionality, but we want to try to avoid big differences that make it feel like two different games when you play PvE and PvP. One area where things work differently, and we think it's ok, is in the case of CC, like stuns, snares, slows, etc. The duration of these skills is fairly significantly reduced when used against players, however, that same reduction in effectiveness is also see in the PvE game when it comes to unique/champion/boss monsters. So, it's not only a jarring difference, it's also actually experienced in PvE.
Bottom line is we'll have to wait and see but, as I said, it's something we have the ability to do if needed but would prefer to largely avoid. I just didn't want anyone to think that we're actively balancing them completely independently as that's not accurate.
One area where things work differently, and we think it's ok, is in the case of CC, like stuns, snares, slows, etc. The duration of these skills is fairly significantly reduced when used against players, however, that same reduction in effectiveness is also see in the PvE game when it comes to unique/champion/boss monsters. So, it's not only a jarring difference, it's also actually experienced in PvE.
I would also have to think that in the later difficulties, this would be the case even more so.
along with the Q&A answer above. CC is going to be MASSIVELY important late game, but I dont think it will be to exploitable.
wasn't there mention somewhere that the difficulty on inferno will be a lot harder than is currently challenging the testers anyway, so whatever it is now it's probably going to be a lot worse.
imagine cc skills on launch will have zero effect if inferno is indeed %200 as difficult as it currently is.
On the note of balancing PvE and PvP separately you guys talked about a little bit, it's something we want to largely avoid. I'm actually sort of confused where that info came from (I know you guys didn't just make it up I've seen it elsewhere). Somehow I feel like it's my fault, but maybe it was talked about at BlizzCon. We do have the ability to keep separate functionality, but we want to try to avoid big differences that make it feel like two different games when you play PvE and PvP. One area where things work differently, and we think it's ok, is in the case of CC, like stuns, snares, slows, etc. The duration of these skills is fairly significantly reduced when used against players, however, that same reduction in effectiveness is also see in the PvE game when it comes to unique/champion/boss monsters. So, it's not only a jarring difference, it's also actually experienced in PvE.
Bottom line is we'll have to wait and see but, as I said, it's something we have the ability to do if needed but would prefer to largely avoid. I just didn't want anyone to think that we're actively balancing them completely independently as that's not accurate.
One area where things work differently, and we think it's ok, is in the case of CC, like stuns, snares, slows, etc. The duration of these skills is fairly significantly reduced when used against players, however, that same reduction in effectiveness is also see in the PvE game when it comes to unique/champion/boss monsters. So, it's not only a jarring difference, it's also actually experienced in PvE.
I would also have to think that in the later difficulties, this would be the case even more so.
along with the Q&A answer above. CC is going to be MASSIVELY important late game, but I dont think it will be to exploitable.
this makes sense, and i guess while you will be able to chain cc's, with only 4 people per game, you wont be able to chain enough cc's to permanently chain them in the later difficulties.
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"If you don't have a TV, then what is all your furniture pointed at?"
Remember in.. forget where, pretty sure it was Jay Wilson, but I recall him saying something along the lines that Inferno's mobs will be more aggressive. I suspect this mean's more than just being quick to aggro but, on the more basic level, quicker to respond to characters. Maybe even response out of LoS... scary thought..
Heh, quoting myself.. for reference anyway, more suggestion that this may be the case. sorry to revive a few day dead one.
From the recent "Second PlayersCut Interview with Jay Wilson" Diablofans quote summary on inferno
Quote from name=" DiabloFans Quote
" »
He states that in Inferno if you find a really hard pack, you are not really able to skip them, while in nightmare and inferno you can kind of just move around them.
How about it? the monsters all have better eyesight than us. How about a unique pair of spectacles you can wear in-game. 2 durability and no armor but aallows you to zoom out!?!? I jest.
Anyway, point is,
off screen line-of-sight!
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Could someone please post in the official D3 forums and ask for some clues on the PvE croud control mechanics? Do higher difficulties take reduced CC by default? Or is there some sort of diminishing return that puts a complete end to chain Stunning/freezing. Does it affect fears or random chance stuns, too?
lets say up to 50% to resist an also having up to 50% shorter duration, a mix of both or one or the other.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
But on a serious note, it's pretty certain that they will already get CC resistances or partial immunities. The SK for example will occasionally return immune on a barb's bash/stun. Will have to verify this, back in a jif.
back:
No, at least not the barbarian's bash/clobber, seems to proc at around 50 percent of the time or maybe a little less. What I had been seeing was the cold damage on one weapon occasionally returning an *immune* popup presumably from the damage's snare.
The SK is immune to CC when he does his whirlwind.
This is for PvE, btw.
i lol'ed at croud control. moving on.
i would bet my left nut that they will go with what has worked for them in past, both in WoW and in diablo 2, which is DIMINISHING RETURNS. i.e first stun lasts 4 seconds, second might last 3, third might last 1.5 seconds, then 4th and any more stuns last 1 second, until a grace period of no stuns for like 5 seconds or something is given. if that makes sense. this system is in place in 99% of MMO's and games like this, i don't see why they wouldnt implement it here. in fact i'm pretty sure i have read that this will be how it works, in a blue post some time back, but i don't care to find it.
I was going to paraphrase this. Thanks for providing the actual quote.
I can see a group of barbs trying to pull the stunlock gig on Inferno SK... and him laughing at them while summoning even more skeletons while the word "Immune" constantly appears above his head.
I've noticed this in some Skeleton Archers (with knockback), when I went for one of them, the other 3 moved away from me. Also, Scavengers do this a lot.
This in itself might make perma-stunning groups that much harder.
nice little observation, thanks
They have already stated that they are not using diminishing returns.
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Bottom line is we'll have to wait and see but, as I said, it's something we have the ability to do if needed but would prefer to largely avoid. I just didn't want anyone to think that we're actively balancing them completely independently as that's not accurate.
The interesting part
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I would also have to think that in the later difficulties, this would be the case even more so.
along with the Q&A answer above. CC is going to be MASSIVELY important late game, but I dont think it will be to exploitable.
imagine cc skills on launch will have zero effect if inferno is indeed %200 as difficult as it currently is.
this makes sense, and i guess while you will be able to chain cc's, with only 4 people per game, you wont be able to chain enough cc's to permanently chain them in the later difficulties.
Heh, quoting myself.. for reference anyway, more suggestion that this may be the case. sorry to revive a few day dead one.
From the recent "Second PlayersCut Interview with Jay Wilson" Diablofans quote summary on inferno
How about it? the monsters all have better eyesight than us. How about a unique pair of spectacles you can wear in-game. 2 durability and no armor but aallows you to zoom out!?!? I jest.
Anyway, point is,
off screen line-of-sight!