Azurewrath has nice secondaries (chance to freeze), but Utar's Roar is craftable at blacksmith and better from a damage perspective since it's a 1.3 attack speed weapon (azurewrath is 1.4). Since dots do not scale with attack speed, they hit harder with slower weapons.
It requires finding Chiltara to get the legendary crafting drop, it's best to do this with a friend -- make separate games and go looking for chiltara (you can log in and out looking for the Cavern of Frost bounty in Act3). She's not guaranteed to be in there so you have to go in and check. What I've done is get a few friends who are also interested and then make separate games, look for the rare monster -- then have the others join our game if they find them. Blizzard says they will increase the spawn rate of Chiltara soon, I hope this is so.
Hey Oni. Yeah I've been doing the math on the different weapons, and +cold vs other things.
The TLDR (too long, didn't read) version is that the +cold weapons are same or better on paper than thunderfury, despite the possible INT loss (though you could get lucky and roll +damage +20% cold + int + socket. since attack speed doesn't increase dot damage, reroll it if it shows up).
The upside of TF is that it'll hit things around the room and be chaining before you get all your dots set up, and will usually be higher effective damage as a result. But on single target the +cold weapons may pull ahead a tiny bit. And you would definitely prefer the +cold weapon (or a 2hander) if you had something like jade harvester 6set (since thunderfury proc adds nothing to the 6set soul harvest effect).
Utar's roar, because of the slightly slower attack speed, innately adds 7% more damage to dots than a 1.4speed sword. Of course if you have a decent Azurewrath.. it has such nice passives that it may make up the difference =D. Plus farming chiltara is not known to be a fun activity, especially since you would likely need to make many Utar's Roars to get a great one, hopefully they patch her to show up more often soon.
Added a note in the opening post about Tall Man's Finger and Ukhapian serpent for high torment.
If you don't mind losing the ring damage, the mega zombie dog has 2700% the health of a normal dog and I find mine generally survives on torment 6, allowing you to get use out of your Ukhapian serpent. Normally T6 monsters near instantly kill zombie dogs. You can summon the mega dog via the circle of life passive, then swap the talent to something else, per usual. String of ears belt is also excellent.
Ic, well the problem with my Azurewarath is that I already rerolled the damage, so I can't roll the Guaranteed ASPD that come with it, and the damage was crappy initaly but had 7% aspd, and for my mage was better to reroll the dmg.
Maybe If I find a good one I'll reroll the spd hehe.
Yea Chiltarra isn't easy to find... I got it twice but no material droped, was pretty sad, took me 1 hour to find her 2 times, I gave up after I found the TF.
Hey Oni! Yeah and I would add the caveat that it's not a straight 7% advantage to Utar's, there are other sources of weapon damage like offhand/rings/neck that dilute the effect somewhat. It's more like 5-5.5% better for the weapon damage part of the equation. I mean you probably did the right thing, I would reroll weapon damage too on a weapon that was otherwise good and had a socket =D.
I'm sure you know, but at some point it's best to focus on other pieces and not go crazy. Though definitely later game it becomes about getting better versions of the same piece (and finally getting 6set and 4set bonuses of jade harvester or zuni).
Azurewrath has nice secondaries (chance to freeze), but Utar's Roar is craftable at blacksmith and better from a damage perspective since it's a 1.3 attack speed weapon (azurewrath is 1.4). Since dots do not scale with attack speed, they hit harder with slower weapons.
I just want to make sure i am reading this correctly. Are you saying that because a weapon has slower attack speed it will always have higher base DPS? Basically I'm wondering if 2 different weapons are only .1 aps apart (1.4-1.3), does the base dps scale with attack speed? The lower attack speed the harder it hits? And i understand, i get it, that 2 handers with slower aps will hit harder than a 1 hander per tick, because sure you cast a skill less often but it has a higher base dps.
Its just that you are saying to craft an item (Utar) because it is .1 attacks per seconds slower than, lets say, a Thunder Fury. So what if the TF rolls perfect stats, and the Utar has mediocre stats. Does the .1 aps guarantee more DPS? Is it a known mathematical fact that any weapon with slower aps will always hit harder?
Im asking because i guess i don't fully understand all this dps stuff. Is it like some sort of graph, where each weapon scales with aps.
This is interesting becauseI'mwondering if i have to take a large amount of my time playing this game (really only play an hour or two after work) to look for this crafting mat. Plus I'm curious about this dps/aps scaling theory.
Anyway, you have one hellova build on your hands. I will try it out for sure. WD is my favorite class, thanks for the post.
Hey apologies, fast reply. Very time constrained IRL atm.
I am short handing the info for sure, it is just that generally slower weapons have higher damage per hit (so yes, slower means higher base damage). But 2hander vs 1hand+offhand are equalish. Generally the offhand's stats bring it up to even on "average". Offhand can have 10% crit and some +skill bonus, and more INT for 1hand+offhand, and you'll average out to the same-ish damage. So it's somewhat up to whatever you have the best gear for. 2handers a bit better at lower gear, 1h+offhand same or better (on average) later on due to crit scaling well as you add +critdamage.
A slow 1hander gets some of the best of both.
Thunderfury has a very strong proc, and a well rolled one will generally be better in play due to its damage starting instantly (and chaining up to 40yards). But the Utar's roar is mentioned because it's very good, craftable, and will eventually scale better with EG 6set jade harvester -- but you are generally best off waiting until you have such a set before worrying about min maxing around it since other items will drop btwn now and then.
Hey I updated this slightly to reflect the fetish changes. They are now quite useful. The proc chance is still modified by the proc modifier on spells (a hidden number), and the cold spells proc them quite nicely as haunt has the highest coefficient possible. The change to make haunt fly 70 yards to another monster when the current one dies is very noticeable in play. Horrify with the armor is even better now.
I really enjoyed this build. I had decent success in clearing t3 rifts in about 13 minutes, but it's not as fast as my wizard 8 minutes. BUT I don't have that stuipid helm yet! Queztacoatl or whatever is still evading me, 4000 shards and counting or so. I can imagine a drastic speedup with this. Justusy, just as you posted, I was thinking about coming back to this build with the fetish syncophants changes. Excited to test this out again.
Hey I updated this slightly to reflect the fetish changes. They are now quite useful. The proc chance is still modified by the proc modifier on spells (a hidden number), and the cold spells proc them quite nicely as haunt has the highest coefficient possible. The change to make haunt fly 70 yards to another monster when the current one dies is very noticeable in play. Horrify with the armor is even better now.
Hey, I'm a casual player using this build (no Quetz yet, alas), and I really really appreciate it. It feels like an affliction warlock in WoW, which I very much like. Just one thing, you probably want to edit out the part about snapshotting DoTs, since that probably doesn't work anymore, right?
I really am impressed with the haunt and fetish change. I find I'm clearing Torment 5 slightly faster than I used to clear Torment4 with this, and I still don't have Jade6set or Zuni4set. Haunt will fly far off and pull monsters off screen, who will stumble in at half health. And fetishs add a lot of damage and distract/tank things for you.
So I was experimenting with this build and since I don't have Quetzacoatl, I decided to use my Mask of Jeram. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with the results. I don't have a tasker & theo, but I could easily fit that in w/ my gear. My fetishes are still critting for 5 - 9 mil and there can be up to 10 - 12 at a time. I'm starting to wonder if going hybrid might not be a bad idea
Heya, well I would run fetish army in a slot if I got zuni boots (would still use quetzcoatl though). And I would definitely consider using tasker and theo in gloves slot just to buff the fetish (probably keeping 4set ashera and 3set aughilds). Though I would use frostburn over tasker (both gloves are hard to get though).
I do have a mask of Jeram and ~+75% fire gear available to use in a bats/pet setup (no tasker/theo), it's just not as good for me personally, by a huge margin.
Oh, another question: now that we have a ton of fetishes running around and tanking things, do you think it's still worth it to craft 3 pieces of Asheara's set, or might there be better options now?
The other sets aren't very inspiring, and the survivability boost from ashera's is really amazing (including the healing from templar, and 5s hex that enchantress does etc). IDK. I also look at my followers as a damage boost, because they are very well geared for me personally - with the furnace weapon, pet summoning legendaries, and a knockback bow (and some others).
There are definitely great items for other slots and a few are mentioned in the opening post, but mainly it can be good to go view all the legendary items available for each slot on battletnet's main site in the game guide (though sometimes they are missing one or two.) The main off item I use are the bracers which give +50% move speed for a few seconds after breaking something, I might use goldwrap instead if a good one dropped (just for the gold to craft a few more gems). http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/
I have to say that the DOT damage is definitely lower than it was before. Then again, I only have to cast it once because at least I know I don't have to pay attention to see if the spells were initially crits or not. Overall, it means I can focus on casting haunt on everything on the screen rather than if it crit on a few key mobs.
I spent about 3 hours last night with this spec rifting in t4. I have to say, I really like the changes to fetish syncophants. The changes to horrify are amazing as well. I never used to use it, but now I'm a total fan. My main changes that I tested were fetish syncophants and mask of jeram. Was REALLY happy with this equipment change. I'm now gambling for a T&T to further test that out.
The fetish uptime is quite good. Solid spec for me! I'm really digging the new WD changes because this spec is now perfect for my playstyle.
I'm still using my wizard's 2 pc vyrs because I have nothing that much better atm. I valued the 500 int over asheara's set. I didn't really like the followers because they weren't that geared, and chicken is unnecessary from enchantress on t4. Maybe on t5/6 it's a different story. I'm also not using RoRG atm, Crazy I know! But I prefer the extra boost from unity/soj.
I am definitely considering dropping piranhas for something else because with all the fetishes, I feel it's not as necessary. I also no longer run grave injustice so I can't use it that often either.
It requires finding Chiltara to get the legendary crafting drop, it's best to do this with a friend -- make separate games and go looking for chiltara (you can log in and out looking for the Cavern of Frost bounty in Act3). She's not guaranteed to be in there so you have to go in and check. What I've done is get a few friends who are also interested and then make separate games, look for the rare monster -- then have the others join our game if they find them. Blizzard says they will increase the spawn rate of Chiltara soon, I hope this is so.
Best of luck.
I got a pretty good azurewrath, with 2400+ dps that I used on my mage, but TF seens better bcause of INT and more aoe dmg.
The TLDR (too long, didn't read) version is that the +cold weapons are same or better on paper than thunderfury, despite the possible INT loss (though you could get lucky and roll +damage +20% cold + int + socket. since attack speed doesn't increase dot damage, reroll it if it shows up).
The upside of TF is that it'll hit things around the room and be chaining before you get all your dots set up, and will usually be higher effective damage as a result. But on single target the +cold weapons may pull ahead a tiny bit. And you would definitely prefer the +cold weapon (or a 2hander) if you had something like jade harvester 6set (since thunderfury proc adds nothing to the 6set soul harvest effect).
Utar's roar, because of the slightly slower attack speed, innately adds 7% more damage to dots than a 1.4speed sword. Of course if you have a decent Azurewrath.. it has such nice passives that it may make up the difference =D. Plus farming chiltara is not known to be a fun activity, especially since you would likely need to make many Utar's Roars to get a great one, hopefully they patch her to show up more often soon.
If you don't mind losing the ring damage, the mega zombie dog has 2700% the health of a normal dog and I find mine generally survives on torment 6, allowing you to get use out of your Ukhapian serpent. Normally T6 monsters near instantly kill zombie dogs. You can summon the mega dog via the circle of life passive, then swap the talent to something else, per usual. String of ears belt is also excellent.
Maybe If I find a good one I'll reroll the spd hehe.
Yea Chiltarra isn't easy to find... I got it twice but no material droped, was pretty sad, took me 1 hour to find her 2 times, I gave up after I found the TF.
I'm sure you know, but at some point it's best to focus on other pieces and not go crazy. Though definitely later game it becomes about getting better versions of the same piece (and finally getting 6set and 4set bonuses of jade harvester or zuni).
***PS: updated the math post on first page.
Its just that you are saying to craft an item (Utar) because it is .1 attacks per seconds slower than, lets say, a Thunder Fury. So what if the TF rolls perfect stats, and the Utar has mediocre stats. Does the .1 aps guarantee more DPS? Is it a known mathematical fact that any weapon with slower aps will always hit harder?
Im asking because i guess i don't fully understand all this dps stuff. Is it like some sort of graph, where each weapon scales with aps.
example:1.6 aps = 850-1045 dps 1.5 aps = 900-1125 dps 1.4 aps = 950-1200 dps 1.3 aps = 1000-1300 ect…...
This is interesting becauseI'mwondering if i have to take a large amount of my time playing this game (really only play an hour or two after work) to look for this crafting mat. Plus I'm curious about this dps/aps scaling theory.
Anyway, you have one hellova build on your hands. I will try it out for sure. WD is my favorite class, thanks for the post.
I am short handing the info for sure, it is just that generally slower weapons have higher damage per hit (so yes, slower means higher base damage). But 2hander vs 1hand+offhand are equalish. Generally the offhand's stats bring it up to even on "average". Offhand can have 10% crit and some +skill bonus, and more INT for 1hand+offhand, and you'll average out to the same-ish damage. So it's somewhat up to whatever you have the best gear for. 2handers a bit better at lower gear, 1h+offhand same or better (on average) later on due to crit scaling well as you add +critdamage.
A slow 1hander gets some of the best of both.
Thunderfury has a very strong proc, and a well rolled one will generally be better in play due to its damage starting instantly (and chaining up to 40yards). But the Utar's roar is mentioned because it's very good, craftable, and will eventually scale better with EG 6set jade harvester -- but you are generally best off waiting until you have such a set before worrying about min maxing around it since other items will drop btwn now and then.
I really am impressed with the haunt and fetish change. I find I'm clearing Torment 5 slightly faster than I used to clear Torment4 with this, and I still don't have Jade6set or Zuni4set. Haunt will fly far off and pull monsters off screen, who will stumble in at half health. And fetishs add a lot of damage and distract/tank things for you.
Curious if anyone has tried something like that.
I do have a mask of Jeram and ~+75% fire gear available to use in a bats/pet setup (no tasker/theo), it's just not as good for me personally, by a huge margin.
There are definitely great items for other slots and a few are mentioned in the opening post, but mainly it can be good to go view all the legendary items available for each slot on battletnet's main site in the game guide (though sometimes they are missing one or two.) The main off item I use are the bracers which give +50% move speed for a few seconds after breaking something, I might use goldwrap instead if a good one dropped (just for the gold to craft a few more gems). http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/
kadala finally me hand a quatz mask, thinking of try DoT build
I spent about 3 hours last night with this spec rifting in t4. I have to say, I really like the changes to fetish syncophants. The changes to horrify are amazing as well. I never used to use it, but now I'm a total fan. My main changes that I tested were fetish syncophants and mask of jeram. Was REALLY happy with this equipment change. I'm now gambling for a T&T to further test that out.
The fetish uptime is quite good. Solid spec for me! I'm really digging the new WD changes because this spec is now perfect for my playstyle.
Here is a link to what I'm using atm:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tak-1454/hero/42633170
I'm still using my wizard's 2 pc vyrs because I have nothing that much better atm. I valued the 500 int over asheara's set. I didn't really like the followers because they weren't that geared, and chicken is unnecessary from enchantress on t4. Maybe on t5/6 it's a different story. I'm also not using RoRG atm, Crazy I know! But I prefer the extra boost from unity/soj.
I am definitely considering dropping piranhas for something else because with all the fetishes, I feel it's not as necessary. I also no longer run grave injustice so I can't use it that often either.
I have been trying it out but i must be doin something wrong, would love to see it in action