Ever since the WD stole my heart away from Wizard I've been toying with my own version of a no-pet build. I prefer to have a very active strategy, and I think my starting build reflects that: Build1.
The two high-damage abilities -- Spirit Barrage for single-target, Zombie Charger (Bears) for groups -- are supported by a variety of slowing effects via Grasp of the Dead (runed to 80%), Soul Harvest (Languish), and Wall of Zombies (Barricade). Finally, Spirit Walk with the healing rune offers additional utility and health, as well as being the 4th cooldown for Vision Quest.
The passives were selected with only two goals in mind: buff damage output, and provide enough mana regeneration to actually be able to pull off a build that will be pressing buttons as often as possible. Pierce the Veil was the obvious choice for damage, and Vision Quest along with Spiritual Attunement generate boatloads of mana to play with.
Everything felt good on the surface, but I've slowly started to collect some concerns:
My two main abilities that I intended on chain-casting both cost a lot of mana, and initially I wasn't sure if I'd have enough mana. After mathing out some numbers, I'm now confident that I'll be OK on mana, provided casting costs don't change much before release... Though I'm beginning to shift to the "maybe I have too much mana regeneration" mindset.
The primary goal was to spam Spirit Barrage/Zombie Bears, and the mana regeneration potential of this loadout can definitely support it. However, three of my cooldown abilities are 15 seconds or less, meaning I will have to refresh them very often in order to keep Vision Quest active, which at that point might not even be necessary since I'm using 3-4 lower-cost casts regularly to keep the regeneration up.
My options here seem to be: drop Vision Quest for another regeneration-related passive that isn't dependent on cooldown usage (Blood Ritual, perhaps); or, swap Spirit Walk -- maybe even Soul Harvest, but I want to keep it as much as possible -- for an ability with a longer cooldown that doesn't need to be refreshed as often for Vision Quest.
Will two slowing effects and an obstacle be enough to outmaneuver "smarter" monsters in higher difficulties? This seems very difficult to answer right now, and as much as I want the answer to be "yes", there's just no way to know for sure yet.
Also, is Wall of Zombies really an obstacle (ie. does it block pathing)? This also seems to be up in the air, as I've read both yes and no responses, and after watching the only footage of it that I could find (Blizzard's own introduction of the WD), it was hard to tell because the wall just one-shot everything that came up to it. I could see this going either way, so I won't wrack my brain too much thinking about it, but if for some reason it doesn't block pathing I may have to trade in a couple abilities for pets to assist with monster positioning (also addresses the issue above with too many short cooldown abilities, but I'm trying to avoid pets if possible), as such: Build2.
Regardless, this is definitely something I'd like to pursue once we have our hands on the full game, especially with so many unknown factors at the moment.
Thats really ncie build but i think it will be insanely hard for you to keep vision quest on constantly. You will need to simply spam Spirt Walk and Zombie Walls.. But what when you actually NEED those abilities ? Defensive abilities requires good timing, they can't be spammaed or loose it's point...
You're kinda trying to make an summonless pet, ok, but i think the best way to use VQ is too use spells that has long cooldowns but don't have it's effect dissipated for spamming (in other worlds spells with cooldown that don't require timing). Pets are the obvious first choice along with Hex, Soul Harvest and Grasp of the Dead.
The first build definitely would have required me to constantly be cycling through my cooldowns, which as you mentioned does kind of suck (ie. I just want to spam Zombie Bears right now, but Spirit Walk is off cooldown again so I have to do that instead). I've since decided that I'll probably trade Spirit Walk for Mass Confusion with the Mass Hysteria rune, as it's a much longer cooldown and it should provide a lot of control. The only time Vision Quest needs to be active is while I'm in damage spam mode, and I don't foresee any problems getting to that point with this trade.
couple things. like he said u need more CC if your petless. this build wont survive in hell/inferno for sure without more CC.
also runing frogs to get rid of the mana cost is pointless because its mana cost is so insanely cheap. you can get exploding toads that do an AOE and they do 40% more dmg and it will STILL be endlessly spammable.
and with exploding frogs firebats is pointless because its essentially the exact same thing, its very close range AOE spell. either use one or the other. replace one of them with another CC and replace vermin with jungle fortitude because your going to get hit too hard.
you dont need PtV since your main attacks are vermin spells so just use vermin so you dont need all that mana regen on your CC spells. so u need more survival use out of them .
when you make a petless WD you need TONS and TONS of survivability for it to be even remotely viable.
Just had a few thoughs regarding these comments. Runed firebats (hungry bats) as seen in the video of runeeffects has a long range (looks like atleast 30 yards), dunno if they've changed that or its just inaccurate, but it doesnt fit with the extreme close range aoe-categorisation.
Anyways, PoT is probably the shittiest spell i've seen so far in the beta and you're right about the mana rune bein pointless. Could see a point with them though as they add some poison damage to the build (which otherwise is exclusively fire) to deal with fire immunes (there will be immunities in D3 right..? Otherwise disregard my comment).
With your changes to the build, his main dps ability is going to be....plague of toads..? Wouldn't want to be in that position :/ Locust swarm/firebats feels like a much better synergy. Would definitely pick up grasp of the dead aswell, as you did. Should work great together with spirit walk.
Regarding the passives, will the damage increasing passives (vermin/PTV) not stack? If they do i'd rock them both...If damage mitigation is a problem, switch to jungle fortitude.
dmg mitigation WILL be a problem in hell/inferno so u wont be able to use both of those passives until u have inferno gear, maybe still not even then. and yea there is no immunes in D3.
i like exploding toads in the beta, they do awesome damage and can kill groups very fast. hungry bats dont go as far as the toads jump FYI, none of the runes do but one that makes the bats go farther and thats dire bats. other then that no. but i do agree that dire bats or another rune would be better as a main attack spell VS toads.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Retarded to get "bad medicine" before taking jungle fortitude. The only way you will be using "bad medicine" is if you already have jungle fortitude and want to mitigate more. "Jungle fortitude" as a 20% damage mitigation all the time whilst you need to apply poison damage to keep "bad medicine" up. Swap "bad medicine" for "jungle fortitude" and stop worrying about applying poison damage.
Retarded to get "bad medicine" before taking jungle fortitude. The only way you will be using "bad medicine" is if you already have jungle fortitude and want to mitigate more. "Jungle fortitude" as a 20% damage mitigation all the time whilst you need to apply poison damage to keep "bad medicine" up. Swap "bad medicine" for "jungle fortitude" and stop worrying about applying poison damage.
this^
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Retarded to get "bad medicine" before taking jungle fortitude. The only way you will be using "bad medicine" is if you already have jungle fortitude and want to mitigate more. "Jungle fortitude" as a 20% damage mitigation all the time whilst you need to apply poison damage to keep "bad medicine" up. Swap "bad medicine" for "jungle fortitude" and stop worrying about applying poison damage.
I even bolded that it was for playing in a group and thus bad medicine, but i guess both of you chose to disregard that. Yes, otherwise, it would be pretty retarded to use it instead of jungle fort.
u only have 1 psn spell that cost a lot of mana to cast, it cost 10% of your max mana at 60, and before that its really not worth it to use at all because itll use like 1/4th your pool to cast it once. bad medicine really isnt worth it unless u have more psn dmg spells or at least a spammable spell with psn dmg. solo or co op
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
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Thats really ncie build but i think it will be insanely hard for you to keep vision quest on constantly. You will need to simply spam Spirt Walk and Zombie Walls.. But what when you actually NEED those abilities ? Defensive abilities requires good timing, they can't be spammaed or loose it's point...
You're kinda trying to make an summonless pet, ok, but i think the best way to use VQ is too use spells that has long cooldowns but don't have it's effect dissipated for spamming (in other worlds spells with cooldown that don't require timing). Pets are the obvious first choice along with Hex, Soul Harvest and Grasp of the Dead.
dmg mitigation WILL be a problem in hell/inferno so u wont be able to use both of those passives until u have inferno gear, maybe still not even then. and yea there is no immunes in D3.
i like exploding toads in the beta, they do awesome damage and can kill groups very fast. hungry bats dont go as far as the toads jump FYI, none of the runes do but one that makes the bats go farther and thats dire bats. other then that no. but i do agree that dire bats or another rune would be better as a main attack spell VS toads.
this^
u only have 1 psn spell that cost a lot of mana to cast, it cost 10% of your max mana at 60, and before that its really not worth it to use at all because itll use like 1/4th your pool to cast it once. bad medicine really isnt worth it unless u have more psn dmg spells or at least a spammable spell with psn dmg. solo or co op