So as I perused skills on the diablo wiki for the umpteenth time, I was thinking about weapon damage and how it affects skills.
This time around, the majority of the Barbarian's skills base their damage on weapon damage, using a percentage modifier. This essentially makes the Barbarian's weapon damage a multiplier in nearly every skill damage calculation.
It occurred to me that this fact means that those Barbs who decide to take a shield are not only losing regular attack damage, but also damage on nearly every skill. Single-handed weapons tend to do ~60% of an equivalent two-handed weapon. So for those skills based on weapon damage, a weapon-and-shield using player loses 40% damage on pretty much all his offensive abilities.
That seems like a pretty big hit for a 1 item defensive advantage.
Now, this is speculation, I'm not saying "OMFG IMBALANCED." I'm more wondering how powerful shields would have to be to make up the difference. Arguably, they would have to amount to a 40% increase in armor/resistances over not having them, making them equivalent to almost half the rest of your armor items.
Further, this means that every other class, who's skills are less commonly based on weapon damage (I think the monk has some, not sure), will almost exclusively want to take shields, because the defensive boost is so massive and there's so little downside (less attack damage on a Wizard? What a tragedy!).
Anyway, I guess I'm wondering how you guys think this problem will be solved, or if you think it's a problem? I haven't been able to come up with anything that sounds reasonable to me. A few ideas though:
-Shields give flat + damage to attack skills based on weapon damage, to offset disadvantage somewhat.
-Skills scale with damage but not based on a percentage (the skill entries ARE fairly old). Perhaps damage tiers or something?
-????
I don't think all of the Barbs skill entries are really that old, I believe they're based off the last Blizzcon 2010 build - or at least I remember seeing the damage on then like that when I attended.
As far as shields go, we've recently heard that every character can use one, even the Monk (which they were still deciding), so going a defensive route is a choice every character has. But I see your concern, other classes (like the Wizard) don't rely on "weapon dmg" for her skill dmg.
I can see this being easily solved by making sure whenever the Barbarian has only 1 "one handed weapon" his "weapon damage" used to calculate the skills is increased by "x%", simple and effective. I don't think we can conclude single handed weapons will deal for sure ~60% of the damage of two-handed weapons or wielding 2 one-handed weapons, we have to wait and see tbh, but even in this case like I said, it could be easily solved with a mechanic that boosts the dmg of the one-handed weapon closer to the dmg of the other 2.
Imo the bets solution is make the difference between 1h weapons and 2h weapons really significative across all classes. We know that they will try to make each class euqally item dependent. So we can espect that "+spell damage" bonuses will be really common on caster's weapons and really essential, so the and the wd wizard will also depend on weapon for dmg like the other classes.
For exemple, a wand will have "increase spell damage by +x" and the staff of that particular tier will have "increase spell damage by +1.6x". x is large number. Cheap weapon wizards must fail, like cheap weapon barbarians !
Imo the bets solution is make the difference between 1h weapons and 2h weapons really significative across all classes. We know that they will try to make each class euqally item dependent. So we can espect that "+spell damage" bonuses will be really common on caster's weapons and really essential, so the and the wd wizard will also depend on weapon for dmg like the other classes.
For exemple, a wand will have "increase spell damage by +x" and the staff of that particular tier will have "increase spell damage by +1.6x". x is large number. Cheap weapon wizards must fail, like cheap weapon barbarians !
Interesting! This seems like a good solution. I am not used to thinking of mages as super item dependent, but they did say they would be making them more so with the +spell damage affix.
I was talking with some friends of mine while I was playing League about this issue, and one of them suggested that shields (of the same tier) have proportionally higher melee combat stats than magical combat stats. This way a shield is going to boost your ability to dish out damage on a melee class, and give you a little better stat boost, so that other classes who are sacrificing nothing to wear a shield don't get as nice of benefits.
Then I remembered that the new stat system has "attack," and magical/physical damage both come from that stat.
However, perhaps it would still be a reasonable solution with use of the spell damage affix? I think yours is the better option though.
I think I'm gonna have to build a 2h barb though, just because I can't stand the idea of losing so much ability damage
Talking about LoL, my suggestion is actually based on that game.
Unlike dota/hon, in LoL mages are as gear dependant as attack damage champs. A mage without gear will not be able to nuke his oponent, just like a ungeared attack damage champ won't be able to survive/kill.
Other solution comes from lineage 2. In that game every weapon have Weapon Damage and Magic Damage as basic stats. Caster oriented weapons have more Magic Damage and melee oriented weapon have more Weapon Damage (and some weapons are balanced). Lore wise it might sound weird, but people get used to it.
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"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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This time around, the majority of the Barbarian's skills base their damage on weapon damage, using a percentage modifier. This essentially makes the Barbarian's weapon damage a multiplier in nearly every skill damage calculation.
It occurred to me that this fact means that those Barbs who decide to take a shield are not only losing regular attack damage, but also damage on nearly every skill. Single-handed weapons tend to do ~60% of an equivalent two-handed weapon. So for those skills based on weapon damage, a weapon-and-shield using player loses 40% damage on pretty much all his offensive abilities.
That seems like a pretty big hit for a 1 item defensive advantage.
Now, this is speculation, I'm not saying "OMFG IMBALANCED." I'm more wondering how powerful shields would have to be to make up the difference. Arguably, they would have to amount to a 40% increase in armor/resistances over not having them, making them equivalent to almost half the rest of your armor items.
Further, this means that every other class, who's skills are less commonly based on weapon damage (I think the monk has some, not sure), will almost exclusively want to take shields, because the defensive boost is so massive and there's so little downside (less attack damage on a Wizard? What a tragedy!).
Anyway, I guess I'm wondering how you guys think this problem will be solved, or if you think it's a problem? I haven't been able to come up with anything that sounds reasonable to me. A few ideas though:
-Shields give flat + damage to attack skills based on weapon damage, to offset disadvantage somewhat.
-Skills scale with damage but not based on a percentage (the skill entries ARE fairly old). Perhaps damage tiers or something?
-????
As far as shields go, we've recently heard that every character can use one, even the Monk (which they were still deciding), so going a defensive route is a choice every character has. But I see your concern, other classes (like the Wizard) don't rely on "weapon dmg" for her skill dmg.
I can see this being easily solved by making sure whenever the Barbarian has only 1 "one handed weapon" his "weapon damage" used to calculate the skills is increased by "x%", simple and effective. I don't think we can conclude single handed weapons will deal for sure ~60% of the damage of two-handed weapons or wielding 2 one-handed weapons, we have to wait and see tbh, but even in this case like I said, it could be easily solved with a mechanic that boosts the dmg of the one-handed weapon closer to the dmg of the other 2.
Imo the bets solution is make the difference between 1h weapons and 2h weapons really significative across all classes. We know that they will try to make each class euqally item dependent. So we can espect that "+spell damage" bonuses will be really common on caster's weapons and really essential, so the and the wd wizard will also depend on weapon for dmg like the other classes.
For exemple, a wand will have "increase spell damage by +x" and the staff of that particular tier will have "increase spell damage by +1.6x". x is large number. Cheap weapon wizards must fail, like cheap weapon barbarians !
Interesting! This seems like a good solution. I am not used to thinking of mages as super item dependent, but they did say they would be making them more so with the +spell damage affix.
I was talking with some friends of mine while I was playing League about this issue, and one of them suggested that shields (of the same tier) have proportionally higher melee combat stats than magical combat stats. This way a shield is going to boost your ability to dish out damage on a melee class, and give you a little better stat boost, so that other classes who are sacrificing nothing to wear a shield don't get as nice of benefits.
Then I remembered that the new stat system has "attack," and magical/physical damage both come from that stat.
However, perhaps it would still be a reasonable solution with use of the spell damage affix? I think yours is the better option though.
I think I'm gonna have to build a 2h barb though, just because I can't stand the idea of losing so much ability damage
Unlike dota/hon, in LoL mages are as gear dependant as attack damage champs. A mage without gear will not be able to nuke his oponent, just like a ungeared attack damage champ won't be able to survive/kill.
Other solution comes from lineage 2. In that game every weapon have Weapon Damage and Magic Damage as basic stats. Caster oriented weapons have more Magic Damage and melee oriented weapon have more Weapon Damage (and some weapons are balanced). Lore wise it might sound weird, but people get used to it.