Well the game is balanced around the AH. If that wasn't the case I'm sure the loot drops would probably be better but only a small percentage higher. Just remember if you try to play the game without the AH you are gimping yourself. Its like saying, "Hey I know the game is balanced around using 6 skills but I think I am only going to use 4." It becomes something you are doing for yourself to add a challenge but you can't complain if you don't do well when the other two skills were already there and available to you.
Well the game is balanced around the AH. If that wasn't the case I'm sure the loot drops would probably be better but only a small percentage higher. Just remember if you try to play the game without the AH you are gimping yourself. Its like saying, "Hey I know the game is balanced around using 6 skills but I think I am only going to use 4." It becomes something you are doing for yourself to add a challenge but you can't complain if you don't do well when the other two skills were already there and available to you.
This isn't in dispute and as I have repeated, three times now, I don't think you can argue that removing utterly-useless garbage from the equation changed things significantly. Most items would still be well below the minimum value to be worth selling. I use the AH myself, but that really doesn't form my opinion on the matter.
To the various people in this and every other thread that complain about never making any money on the AH:
You do realize that if you try to sell a mid-range ilvl 61-63 item for 10 or 100 times its worth, it won't sell, right? Because somebody is overpopulating the AH with fairly uninteresting mid-range gear priced way, way above what it's worth.
Also, you do realize that you shouldn't vendor every ivl 50-59 item you find, right? Decently rolled 50-59 gear often sells for far more than you remember when your main was leveling, since very few people are even bothering to put this stuff up on the AH anymore. I make far more gold selling this stuff than from the majority of the ilvl 61+ items I find.
I bought my way into act 1 since no ilvl 63s dropped in hell then. Since then Ive upgraded almost every piece of gear myself. I mean Im not great but was able to progress
I do agree that there is still a glut of what i'd call "completely useless shit," in the itemization mix. I don't think every item should be like some legendaries (nearly impossible to get a bad roll), but I do believe that finding hundreds of ilvl 63 items worth less than a decent ilvl 55 equivalent is patently absurd and happens far too much.
You and I have been in agreement on this issue for a good while now. I like your idea of cutting the lower 10% but I honestly can say that truly decent gear is absurdly sparse in my experience when in direct comparison to D3's predecessor. I really do believe that the cause of this is too few "choices" in quality affixes on items...or perhaps the over important few. I think I had this discussion before but my ideas for a solution are not reasonable as it would lead to alienation of some current players where as your suggestion of raising the floor of higher level items may well be a good diplomatic solution. Not to sound like a parrot constantly spewing the same phrase but item drops excluding the new legendries bore me, even the upgrades. I really want the game to succeed on the level that D2 did and in terms of gameplay it is in every way superior. I know the developer has talked of altering items in a future patch so I suppose the issue hasn't fallen on deaf ears
Seriously? There are still threads demanding loot buffs and content nerfs? Really? Why would you do that? The gear you need to complete inferno on any class can be bought so cheaply nowadays, it's incredible.
Why would you want more gear? It would just make the game become boring way faster.
What if I told you, that the thread is talking about getting loot from drops?, and not cheating through AH ez gear?
Seriously? There are still threads demanding loot buffs and content nerfs? Really? Why would you do that? The gear you need to complete inferno on any class can be bought so cheaply nowadays, it's incredible.
Why would you want more gear? It would just make the game become boring way faster.
What if I told you, that the thread is talking about getting loot from drops?, and not cheating through AH ez gear?
So that means that anyone who traded items in D2 was a cheater?
Good to know.
Let's stick to reasonable discussion and move away from fucktarded bullshit like calling the AH "cheating." There is absolutely nothing productive to come from such vhemently-biased flamebait asininity.
If someone earned 500 million gold by selling items and wants to buy something with that wealth that is hardly cheating, unless they cheated to get the 500 million gold to begin with. I realize people want some kind of totally pure item hunt single-player mode, but there needs to be a currency for item exchange and there needs to be item exchange. If I wanted to play a single-player game where I never traded, bought, and sold items.... I'd fire up a Final Fantasy game. Stop trying to make this a single-player console game. A lot of us enjoy the fact that we can convert items that we don't want into currency which we can use for other purposes.
I'm sick of the repeated insinuations that the gold I've earned from killing monsters and selling my wares should not be able to be leveraged how I see to benefit my characters. I put in time to earn that gold and marginalizing it by calling the AH cheating, or complaining that people who buy/sell on the AH are somehow not Diablo fans is absolutely rude.
It's possible to like, dislike, or not have an opinion on the AH while still having a reasonable discussion. However, past threads on the subject have proven that there are several people who cannot control their AH hatred and will turn everything related to anything into a huge "AH killed the game" rant.
You want to improve drops without doing anything drastic? I say remove the following properties:
Life on Kill
Strength/Dexterity hybrid
Strength/Intellect hybrid
Dexterity/Intellect hybrid
There, I've just got rid of four properties that are outright useless and generally fuck gear up far more than enhance it and have absolutely no place in the game to begin with.
We can add No Durability Loss and Thorns to that list as well.
Honestly, I don't mind having some affixes that I immediately know that I don't want. It helps to keep some items in check as far as just being "ok". I wish there were some more interesting affixes on rare gear and not just legendaries since a large part of the player base will apparently not get to wear any legendaries. To fit an interesting affix on gear, however, there needs to be less requirement for those currently annointed stats.
I haven't played in a little over a week. Every time I sit down to play, I find myself asking "What do I think is going to happen that hasn't in the last 400+ hours?"
The game has to feel rewarding. I have yet to be excited about a single item that has dropped for me. My best item so far in 400+ hours was a helm that sold for 800k. While that's nice, that's far far too little for 400 hours. The next best item was 100k. and the third was 50k. Two items in 400+ hours worth more than 50k.
I really don't care how it's fixed. I've started threads and made posts about the problem. I've talked about the pyschology of it and the research behind it (scientific research that you can guarantee Blizz devs know about). I've talk about player motivations and variety. I've been agreed with and flamed.
The simple point is, the game provides rewards in a VERY stingy time/reward ratio until your gear is near the point that you can farm Act 3 at MF cap. By farm, I simply mean not skipping packs and not having to zerg them down. This is not implying that we should be melting elites in 10 seconds and clearing Act 3 in speed clears. In D3, that ratio is far below what science has determined is ideal for gaming development. Given that the franchise has so many loyal followers (including me) and great gameplay (IMO), it can get away with being lower than ideal. I feel, and I think many agree with me, that it is far too low at present.
If you really feel that gear should not be the reward, then fine, propose a better idea. However, this is an item centric game so it will really have to be innovative and amazing.
A piece of gear (except weapons) can roll ONE primary stat. There are usually two slots that can roll any given primary. For strength, this is shoulders and belt (and I think amulet). Those can roll up to 200. However, that is not a RND[200] roll. That is broken down into very small ranges that are actually different affixes. These items can also roll StrSecondary or STAT which may be str+other. Those are what you see for strength on items other than weapons, shoulders, or belt.
Under the affixes link on that site, if you scroll way down, you find this list I pasted above. These are links on that site but they break when I paste them here. Check out the site if you want to understand my point. Shoulders and belt are the only non-weapon items that can roll these. If they increase the frequency of Str12-Str14 and leave Str 16 very rare, they can still keep OP items rare and give us more rewarding drops. Further, as Shaggy and others have said, stop letting Str8 and below spawn on iLvl 61+. Maybe that threshold should be Str 7 or even 6, who knows. They can tweak it as necessary. The idea is simply that they can granularly control the rate at which usable gear drops without risking making everyone OP. They can do this kind of adjustment for all the affixes so you aren't rolling a level 40 affix on iLvl 61+ gear.
I got bord after leveling 6 toons, one is farming farming act 1 inferno in full mf gear and hardly any resist all about 25k dps buffed. I started HC after having to delete a toon to make room, its like a whole new game now, no gold to buy stuff and afraid of dying in every pack, so i spend half my time farming act 2 with my dps gear and half playing my hc toon. I want to see how far I can go without buying anything from ah.
Seriously? There are still threads demanding loot buffs and content nerfs? Really? Why would you do that? The gear you need to complete inferno on any class can be bought so cheaply nowadays, it's incredible.
Why would you want more gear? It would just make the game become boring way faster.
What if I told you, that the thread is talking about getting loot from drops?, and not cheating through AH ez gear?
So that means that anyone who traded items in D2 was a cheater?
Good to know.
Let's stick to reasonable discussion and move away from fucktarded bullshit like calling the AH "cheating." There is absolutely nothing productive to come from such vhemently-biased flamebait asininity.
If someone earned 500 million gold by selling items and wants to buy something with that wealth that is hardly cheating, unless they cheated to get the 500 million gold to begin with. I realize people want some kind of totally pure item hunt single-player mode, but there needs to be a currency for item exchange and there needs to be item exchange. If I wanted to play a single-player game where I never traded, bought, and sold items.... I'd fire up a Final Fantasy game. Stop trying to make this a single-player console game. A lot of us enjoy the fact that we can convert items that we don't want into currency which we can use for other purposes.
I'm sick of the repeated insinuations that the gold I've earned from killing monsters and selling my wares should not be able to be leveraged how I see to benefit my characters. I put in time to earn that gold and marginalizing it by calling the AH cheating, or complaining that people who buy/sell on the AH are somehow not Diablo fans is absolutely rude.
It's possible to like, dislike, or not have an opinion on the AH while still having a reasonable discussion. However, past threads on the subject have proven that there are several people who cannot control their AH hatred and will turn everything related to anything into a huge "AH killed the game" rant.
You want to improve drops without doing anything drastic? I say remove the following properties:
Life on Kill
Strength/Dexterity hybrid
Strength/Intellect hybrid
Dexterity/Intellect hybrid
There, I've just got rid of four properties that are outright useless and generally fuck gear up far more than enhance it and have absolutely no place in the game to begin with.
D2 trading system was extremly different from the current AH. Why?, because gold was useless. You could trade mostly runes, wich were extremly hard to get, that was the currency in D2. Now, lets back to D3, you can easily make 100k/200k in a few hours with close to horrible gear in inferno act 1, or hell act 3/4. With 200k, you can purchase gear which you would have taken several weeks to get from drops. See, there is no correlation between effort - gear.
I'm tired of ppl saying that is the same, but more "organized" than it was in D2. Dont fool yourself.
The idea is simply that they can granularly control the rate at which usable gear drops without risking making everyone OP. They can do this kind of adjustment for all the affixes so you aren't rolling a level 40 affix on iLvl 61+ gear.
Well said and exactly what I was driving at earlier.
So what you're saying is that in D2 it was OK to get Item A and trade it for pSkulls and then trade pSkulls for Item B.
But in D3 it's "cheating" if you get Item A, sell it on the AH for gold, then use that gold to buy Item B.
Got it, there's nothing hypocritical about that at all. Nothing.
/rollseyes
From your other posts, you are a person who likes to play the "AH game", since there is nothing broken with the current system for you, there will be no ideas/changes that could even remotely pleases you, so, lets end this "discussion" here.
The developers are stating that D3 is all about the thrill of the loot drop, but rarely does any good loot drop. I played for about 6 hours this weekend with no good drops, not even remotely good. Then we are force to use the AH. If you wanted to play the game without the AH is would almost be impossible to beat the game
It's not at all impossible. You're assuming you need to be in full BiS to beat the game, which is far from true. Inferno is not meant to be easy, it's supposed to take either a lot of time to grind all the gear you need and/or a lot of careful use of skills, skipping bad champ packs, etc. I have never bought a single item from any AH (I don't have any problem with the AH that's just how I choose to play). It takes longer obviously... the AH is a shortcut, if you don't like shortcuts don't take them.
If you don't like random loot (and D3 has RANDOM loot, not random chance to drop fixed ILVLs or random chance to drop fixed items, everything is random and nothing can save you from that, that's the way it's intended) then Diablo just isn't for you. Every Diablo game is this way.
The fun of Diablo is that since everything is random, there's always better gear out there so always a reason to keep playing. Always a reason to stop and ID that rare because it COULD be an upgrade. If you could quickly and reliably find BiS items then the game would just end as soon as you had enough.
D2 trading system was extremly different from the current AH. Why?, because gold was useless. You could trade mostly runes, wich were extremly hard to get, that was the currency in D2. Now, lets back to D3, you can easily make 100k/200k in a few hours with close to horrible gear in inferno act 1, or hell act 3/4. With 200k, you can purchase gear which you would have taken several weeks to get from drops. See, there is no correlation between effort - gear.
I'm tired of ppl saying that is the same, but more "organized" than it was in D2. Dont fool yourself.
Yeah it's different in that D2's system was horribly broken, in part because of how worthless gold was. Which was partly because you couldn't do anything useful with it and partly because of inflation that would make a Zimbabwean gasp.
I played D2 for years and had 6 accounts full of characters and in all that time I NEVER ONCE SAW A SOJ DROP. And that was the unit of currency (well until HRs took over)! How broken is that?
I played D2 for years and had 6 accounts full of characters and in all that time I NEVER ONCE SAW A SOJ DROP. And that was the unit of currency (well until HRs took over)! How broken is that?
I also played for years, and never saw a SoJ - and I never saw a high rune drop, either.
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Scaled Wurm
This isn't in dispute and as I have repeated, three times now, I don't think you can argue that removing utterly-useless garbage from the equation changed things significantly. Most items would still be well below the minimum value to be worth selling. I use the AH myself, but that really doesn't form my opinion on the matter.
You do realize that if you try to sell a mid-range ilvl 61-63 item for 10 or 100 times its worth, it won't sell, right? Because somebody is overpopulating the AH with fairly uninteresting mid-range gear priced way, way above what it's worth.
Also, you do realize that you shouldn't vendor every ivl 50-59 item you find, right? Decently rolled 50-59 gear often sells for far more than you remember when your main was leveling, since very few people are even bothering to put this stuff up on the AH anymore. I make far more gold selling this stuff than from the majority of the ilvl 61+ items I find.
What if I told you, that the thread is talking about getting loot from drops?, and not cheating through AH ez gear?
So that means that anyone who traded items in D2 was a cheater?
Good to know.
Let's stick to reasonable discussion and move away from fucktarded bullshit like calling the AH "cheating." There is absolutely nothing productive to come from such vhemently-biased flamebait asininity.
If someone earned 500 million gold by selling items and wants to buy something with that wealth that is hardly cheating, unless they cheated to get the 500 million gold to begin with. I realize people want some kind of totally pure item hunt single-player mode, but there needs to be a currency for item exchange and there needs to be item exchange. If I wanted to play a single-player game where I never traded, bought, and sold items.... I'd fire up a Final Fantasy game. Stop trying to make this a single-player console game. A lot of us enjoy the fact that we can convert items that we don't want into currency which we can use for other purposes.
I'm sick of the repeated insinuations that the gold I've earned from killing monsters and selling my wares should not be able to be leveraged how I see to benefit my characters. I put in time to earn that gold and marginalizing it by calling the AH cheating, or complaining that people who buy/sell on the AH are somehow not Diablo fans is absolutely rude.
It's possible to like, dislike, or not have an opinion on the AH while still having a reasonable discussion. However, past threads on the subject have proven that there are several people who cannot control their AH hatred and will turn everything related to anything into a huge "AH killed the game" rant.
You want to improve drops without doing anything drastic? I say remove the following properties:
Life on Kill
Strength/Dexterity hybrid
Strength/Intellect hybrid
Dexterity/Intellect hybrid
There, I've just got rid of four properties that are outright useless and generally fuck gear up far more than enhance it and have absolutely no place in the game to begin with.
Honestly, I don't mind having some affixes that I immediately know that I don't want. It helps to keep some items in check as far as just being "ok". I wish there were some more interesting affixes on rare gear and not just legendaries since a large part of the player base will apparently not get to wear any legendaries. To fit an interesting affix on gear, however, there needs to be less requirement for those currently annointed stats.
I haven't played in a little over a week. Every time I sit down to play, I find myself asking "What do I think is going to happen that hasn't in the last 400+ hours?"
The game has to feel rewarding. I have yet to be excited about a single item that has dropped for me. My best item so far in 400+ hours was a helm that sold for 800k. While that's nice, that's far far too little for 400 hours. The next best item was 100k. and the third was 50k. Two items in 400+ hours worth more than 50k.
I really don't care how it's fixed. I've started threads and made posts about the problem. I've talked about the pyschology of it and the research behind it (scientific research that you can guarantee Blizz devs know about). I've talk about player motivations and variety. I've been agreed with and flamed.
The simple point is, the game provides rewards in a VERY stingy time/reward ratio until your gear is near the point that you can farm Act 3 at MF cap. By farm, I simply mean not skipping packs and not having to zerg them down. This is not implying that we should be melting elites in 10 seconds and clearing Act 3 in speed clears. In D3, that ratio is far below what science has determined is ideal for gaming development. Given that the franchise has so many loyal followers (including me) and great gameplay (IMO), it can get away with being lower than ideal. I feel, and I think many agree with me, that it is far too low at present.
If you really feel that gear should not be the reward, then fine, propose a better idea. However, this is an item centric game so it will really have to be innovative and amazing.
If you really want to know my recommended solution, take some time on this site and see how granular affixes really are.
http://www.d3inferno.com/affixes/ItemAffixes.html
A piece of gear (except weapons) can roll ONE primary stat. There are usually two slots that can roll any given primary. For strength, this is shoulders and belt (and I think amulet). Those can roll up to 200. However, that is not a RND[200] roll. That is broken down into very small ranges that are actually different affixes. These items can also roll StrSecondary or STAT which may be str+other. Those are what you see for strength on items other than weapons, shoulders, or belt.
Str
Str 1
Str 2
Str 3
Str 4
Str 5
Str 6
Str 7
Str 8
Str 9
Str 10
Str 11
Str 12
Str 13
Str 14
Str 15
Str 16
Under the affixes link on that site, if you scroll way down, you find this list I pasted above. These are links on that site but they break when I paste them here. Check out the site if you want to understand my point. Shoulders and belt are the only non-weapon items that can roll these. If they increase the frequency of Str12-Str14 and leave Str 16 very rare, they can still keep OP items rare and give us more rewarding drops. Further, as Shaggy and others have said, stop letting Str8 and below spawn on iLvl 61+. Maybe that threshold should be Str 7 or even 6, who knows. They can tweak it as necessary. The idea is simply that they can granularly control the rate at which usable gear drops without risking making everyone OP. They can do this kind of adjustment for all the affixes so you aren't rolling a level 40 affix on iLvl 61+ gear.
D2 trading system was extremly different from the current AH. Why?, because gold was useless. You could trade mostly runes, wich were extremly hard to get, that was the currency in D2. Now, lets back to D3, you can easily make 100k/200k in a few hours with close to horrible gear in inferno act 1, or hell act 3/4. With 200k, you can purchase gear which you would have taken several weeks to get from drops. See, there is no correlation between effort - gear.
I'm tired of ppl saying that is the same, but more "organized" than it was in D2. Dont fool yourself.
But in D3 it's "cheating" if you get Item A, sell it on the AH for gold, then use that gold to buy Item B.
Got it, there's nothing hypocritical about that at all. Nothing.
/rollseyes
Well said and exactly what I was driving at earlier.
From your other posts, you are a person who likes to play the "AH game", since there is nothing broken with the current system for you, there will be no ideas/changes that could even remotely pleases you, so, lets end this "discussion" here.
It has been great to see such a discussion from my first ever post.
I got my 1st ever legendary drop last night and it was shit too.
It's not at all impossible. You're assuming you need to be in full BiS to beat the game, which is far from true. Inferno is not meant to be easy, it's supposed to take either a lot of time to grind all the gear you need and/or a lot of careful use of skills, skipping bad champ packs, etc. I have never bought a single item from any AH (I don't have any problem with the AH that's just how I choose to play). It takes longer obviously... the AH is a shortcut, if you don't like shortcuts don't take them.
If you don't like random loot (and D3 has RANDOM loot, not random chance to drop fixed ILVLs or random chance to drop fixed items, everything is random and nothing can save you from that, that's the way it's intended) then Diablo just isn't for you. Every Diablo game is this way.
The fun of Diablo is that since everything is random, there's always better gear out there so always a reason to keep playing. Always a reason to stop and ID that rare because it COULD be an upgrade. If you could quickly and reliably find BiS items then the game would just end as soon as you had enough.
Yeah it's different in that D2's system was horribly broken, in part because of how worthless gold was. Which was partly because you couldn't do anything useful with it and partly because of inflation that would make a Zimbabwean gasp.
I played D2 for years and had 6 accounts full of characters and in all that time I NEVER ONCE SAW A SOJ DROP. And that was the unit of currency (well until HRs took over)! How broken is that?
Everything was a dupe in D2 anyway.
I also played for years, and never saw a SoJ - and I never saw a high rune drop, either.