Ok, so me and my group got to ac4 inferno now and been struggling with the tanking issue alot. Most grps in act3-4 are just suicide running bosses and not killing champs/elites.
We are, kinda... slowly....
The problem is that the only way of proprely tanking is to focusing EVERY single stats in tanking stats,
For a Barb,
Vit + All resists + Str
for a Monk
Vit + All resists + Specific Resist + Dex
Rare items can have up to 6 random stats (best ones and rare) and having all the random stats be high is almost impossible to find.
For tanking you also need both the monk AND the barb in a group because they synergize. Barb bring 50% armor/resist boost to all, Which helps high stacking ALL+Specific Resist Monks alot
Monks bring Mantra of Healing boon of protection which helps High HP barb and themselves live. They also have some utility skills like group ignore pain and group serenity to help get back up from bursts.
The barb will have an extremly easy time tanking as long as the monk is up and spamming Mantra, if he avoids lazers and desecrations. The Monk will still have a hard time living and can get bursted down fast and get unlucky, if he does, the barb is likely to follow in his death.
That leaves 2 DPS in your game. I have no experience with WD at all so I cannot comment on them. Demon Hunters can get some high single target DPS with OK AOE dmg and can live pretty good. Wizards have the BEST aoe dmg AND the best single target damage WITH Archon up which means they are perfect for bringing down the champs/elites.
A perfect group setup for act3-4 inferno is Barb+Monk+Wiz+Wiz. The group utility is very high but even with the best tanking gear currently available the tanks are not unkillable. The normal mobs won't be a problem, Elites/Champs will most likely be chain killing you alot but a decent amount of combos will be possible and for the others you need to seperate them and take them down 1 at a time while one of your tanks is running around kiting the rest of the pack to keep em busy.
---------------------------
My thoughts on the game design :
Barbs and Monks being forced to go pure survival and killing normal mobs slower than a wizard killing a boss is just a bad idea of a game. Leveling up on normal mode barb and monks have a good feeling of killing and doing great damage and loving the game, this changes slowly as progression goes on and when you enter inferno act2+ the idea of dpsing is just completly out of the picture...
The game itself (Quest/Bosses) on inferno are a joke compared to the champs/elites. From what I understand, this is blizz game design and they are fine with that. However the only way to make the game hard in their design is to make champs/elites extremely hard hitting and anti-melee so that they cannot be tanked in place for long period of times. But this system only leads to extreme kiting/seperation of packs in order to kill one and then reseting the fight to kill another until they are all dead. That is not what I call hard, it is plain annoying and a chore to do, and not only that but extremely boring to play tanks as there is no damage output coming from them.
I beleive that blizz should redesign the entire inferno mode.
Anyway for those interested in my group's stats, here is an approximate:
Barb - 80khp, ~700resists
Monk - 60khp, ~1k resists
Wiz - 70kdps
DH - 35kdps
Gear without + resist is almost useless, and it needs other stats on top of that so only a small subsection of loot even has a chance of being good at the moment
We could probably bust out the math at very high lvl of resists (where you are) and see if some of the modifiers for physical dmg reduction are better then resists but you basically are going to want both.
Are you getting lvl 60 gear with every drop? One of my biggest gripes right now is that I kill something and get a lvl 54 rare, I think they should at a bear minimum give me lvl 60 gear for every drop so I have a chance at an upgrade.
I started in on act 2 inferno and was forced to go back to act one to farm gear
I was finally able to get my first act 2 champ pack down last night and was really hoping I could keep that momentum going forward but it sounds like after you completed act 2 you had to regear for act 3-4? (we were thinking of just killing bosses to get to act 3 as act 2 is kind of annoying)
I'm playing a monk and would be very interested in the skill selection your monk is going with along with total AC, resists, any dmg reduction by %
As far as tanking goes you have several o shit buttons as a monk, all of which are on timers so it really goes tank - kite - tank -kite
a sort of running retreat (unless you get some easy pack) The problem is that when you blow a cool down such as invulnerability your left with a delima of should you attack for those glorious few seconds or should you reposition yourself (i play solo or with my bro who is a wiz) sometimes if you have the mobs in graveyard zerg range you just have to do dmg during those seconds to build the spirit for other abilities
I know that tanking for the moment sucks but it really is only week 2 of a brand new game It will get better as the gear drops come and just hope that what your doing doesn't get nerfed to hell. As long as your keeping a rolling neph valor stack your doing amazing. If your not it probably means you need to farm more.
I've finished Act 1 of Inferno and I've just barely started Act II and I'm building full tank. The only thing is I like to use Way of the Hundred Fists with Windforce Flurry. I find it helps burn champions and elites faster. Anyway I completely agree with how you feel. I was sad to hear the people just corpse hopped to bosses and then found that bosses were too easy. Of course Blizzard has said they wanted the trash to be harder. If that's the case then why not take precautions against corpse hopping? It's almost like a WoW model honestly except more annoying because everything is just kiting and separating mobs. Monks and Bars can't build dps at all in Inferno. Sadly I'll probably still be playing this game. It would be nice to see Blizzard patching in ways to force you to fight the trash at least.
Well ok, let do some theorycrafting. I'm myself barbarian tanking at inferno, i have low-end gear without any legends or set items. 70%DR, 52% PhysDR, 30%EleDR with 77k hp and 42% flee.
I manage to tank some elites, but still chains and fire spawns makes me dead in no time. But i'm aming for beeing almost unkillable now (dpends on luck and how many times my 42%flee will trigger).
77k hp is not the highest value i can get. There are weapons on AH that would stand me on 90k about. At some good EleDR u get about 2-3k dmg per second from elites - but u can still counter that by going DW. Since u got about 42% flee and about 50+ with monk mantra u dont have to worry ALOT about block.
Best tanking DW weapon i saw on AH was 742dps dagger with 2,7%LifeSteal and +747 heal per hit - socked. That means if u sock it with best amethyst it sinle gives us about 1347hp per hit. Get 2 of them and u got alot of ASPD with alot of healing. Add your Passive for 1% hp regen per second and some HP regen gear and u can be at 4-5k hp regen per second SUISTANING the ele dmg from elites. Migitation gives u survive vs those heavy hitting melees while your hp regen AND EleRes+Superstition gives u enogh to survive any combination of champs.
Well this is only theorycrafting as this dagger was on 6,000,000 gold price. But i think its doable. For all the people who say barb needs buff on inferno - NOT RLY.
My point was not about if they can tank or not really... it's more about the fun feeling of playing inferno as barb or monk, with every single stat for gearing up going behind tanking, it makes killing as a barb or monk the most unfun thing ever. act3 champs in 4 man games have 10-12million HP per, more than skeleton king and thats multiple targets. There is still some champs/elites that will damn near 1 shot even with all that tank gear on.
Edit:
I guess i could keep going on about how they want multiple builds to be viable, well currently, a barb and monk are only viable as a tank build and nothing else.
With a tank, Witch Doctors have the highest dps in the game, it's not even a competition. No one even comes close. Zombie Bears do ~800% damage per cast, assuming the enemy is sufficient size, or in a narrow corridor. Even fallen are large enough to take hits from all 3.
Couple that with the +assloads of int from their aoe buff thing, hex increasing damage by 20%, and ccing hard hitting mobs, WD Is the best dps in party play, whereas Wizard is the safest(due to never being able to die in 1 hit)
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We are, kinda... slowly....
The problem is that the only way of proprely tanking is to focusing EVERY single stats in tanking stats,
For a Barb,
Vit + All resists + Str
for a Monk
Vit + All resists + Specific Resist + Dex
Rare items can have up to 6 random stats (best ones and rare) and having all the random stats be high is almost impossible to find.
For tanking you also need both the monk AND the barb in a group because they synergize. Barb bring 50% armor/resist boost to all, Which helps high stacking ALL+Specific Resist Monks alot
Monks bring Mantra of Healing boon of protection which helps High HP barb and themselves live. They also have some utility skills like group ignore pain and group serenity to help get back up from bursts.
The barb will have an extremly easy time tanking as long as the monk is up and spamming Mantra, if he avoids lazers and desecrations. The Monk will still have a hard time living and can get bursted down fast and get unlucky, if he does, the barb is likely to follow in his death.
That leaves 2 DPS in your game. I have no experience with WD at all so I cannot comment on them. Demon Hunters can get some high single target DPS with OK AOE dmg and can live pretty good. Wizards have the BEST aoe dmg AND the best single target damage WITH Archon up which means they are perfect for bringing down the champs/elites.
A perfect group setup for act3-4 inferno is Barb+Monk+Wiz+Wiz. The group utility is very high but even with the best tanking gear currently available the tanks are not unkillable. The normal mobs won't be a problem, Elites/Champs will most likely be chain killing you alot but a decent amount of combos will be possible and for the others you need to seperate them and take them down 1 at a time while one of your tanks is running around kiting the rest of the pack to keep em busy.
---------------------------
My thoughts on the game design :
Barbs and Monks being forced to go pure survival and killing normal mobs slower than a wizard killing a boss is just a bad idea of a game. Leveling up on normal mode barb and monks have a good feeling of killing and doing great damage and loving the game, this changes slowly as progression goes on and when you enter inferno act2+ the idea of dpsing is just completly out of the picture...
The game itself (Quest/Bosses) on inferno are a joke compared to the champs/elites. From what I understand, this is blizz game design and they are fine with that. However the only way to make the game hard in their design is to make champs/elites extremely hard hitting and anti-melee so that they cannot be tanked in place for long period of times. But this system only leads to extreme kiting/seperation of packs in order to kill one and then reseting the fight to kill another until they are all dead. That is not what I call hard, it is plain annoying and a chore to do, and not only that but extremely boring to play tanks as there is no damage output coming from them.
I beleive that blizz should redesign the entire inferno mode.
Anyway for those interested in my group's stats, here is an approximate:
Barb - 80khp, ~700resists
Monk - 60khp, ~1k resists
Wiz - 70kdps
DH - 35kdps
We could probably bust out the math at very high lvl of resists (where you are) and see if some of the modifiers for physical dmg reduction are better then resists but you basically are going to want both.
Are you getting lvl 60 gear with every drop? One of my biggest gripes right now is that I kill something and get a lvl 54 rare, I think they should at a bear minimum give me lvl 60 gear for every drop so I have a chance at an upgrade.
I started in on act 2 inferno and was forced to go back to act one to farm gear
I was finally able to get my first act 2 champ pack down last night and was really hoping I could keep that momentum going forward but it sounds like after you completed act 2 you had to regear for act 3-4? (we were thinking of just killing bosses to get to act 3 as act 2 is kind of annoying)
I'm playing a monk and would be very interested in the skill selection your monk is going with along with total AC, resists, any dmg reduction by %
As far as tanking goes you have several o shit buttons as a monk, all of which are on timers so it really goes tank - kite - tank -kite
a sort of running retreat (unless you get some easy pack) The problem is that when you blow a cool down such as invulnerability your left with a delima of should you attack for those glorious few seconds or should you reposition yourself (i play solo or with my bro who is a wiz) sometimes if you have the mobs in graveyard zerg range you just have to do dmg during those seconds to build the spirit for other abilities
I know that tanking for the moment sucks but it really is only week 2 of a brand new game It will get better as the gear drops come and just hope that what your doing doesn't get nerfed to hell. As long as your keeping a rolling neph valor stack your doing amazing. If your not it probably means you need to farm more.
I have 40k with sharpshooter and I'm on act 2 inferno.
Unless 35k is without sharpshooter.
Without sharpshooter
If i remember right, it's 90k with i think....
My point was not about if they can tank or not really... it's more about the fun feeling of playing inferno as barb or monk, with every single stat for gearing up going behind tanking, it makes killing as a barb or monk the most unfun thing ever. act3 champs in 4 man games have 10-12million HP per, more than skeleton king and thats multiple targets. There is still some champs/elites that will damn near 1 shot even with all that tank gear on.
Edit:
I guess i could keep going on about how they want multiple builds to be viable, well currently, a barb and monk are only viable as a tank build and nothing else.
Couple that with the +assloads of int from their aoe buff thing, hex increasing damage by 20%, and ccing hard hitting mobs, WD Is the best dps in party play, whereas Wizard is the safest(due to never being able to die in 1 hit)